Scourge is Broken in WvW, Please balance it

[Arcaedus.7290]

I think this could have been completely avoided from the start if Anet hadn't given scourge so much boon corrupt. Seriously, did necro need more boon corrupt? Base necro could plausibly cram more boon corrupt/strip into one build than pretty much all other classes combined into one character could.

 

A simple solution would be to rework the punishment skills. Only ghastly breach and one other punishment skill (perhaps the snakes since this skill isn't used as much) would be able to corrupt. All other punishments would only apply conditions.

[Lahmia.2193]

> @"Hexalot.8194" said:

> > @"Lahmia.2193" said:

> > > @"Ritualist Essence.9285" said:

> > > To balance it they should start making seperate WVW versions of Scourge traits, for example a WVW version of Demonic Lore & remove the +33% torment damage thing.

> >

> > I don't think I've ever seen a scourge use anything except Sand Savant in wvw. It's too kitten good.

>

> Wrong. Plenty of scourges don't use it because giving up demonic lore is just too much of a hit to their damage. Sure, some complain it's too hard to target players with the smaller radius of the regular sand shades, blah blah. L2P issue.

 

I mean if you're talking roaming then maybe. But in a 20+ zerg fight, the constant movement and thus need to re-setup your shades means the reduced recharge from sand savant is a must. And then the added extra targets and larger area go without say.

[Slugonaut.9841]

Anyone who says scourge isnt broken, go watch any of the GvG NA tournament where almost every team has at least 5-7 scourges with 5+ Firebrands. Come on now, its ridiculous. In a 15v15 matchup almost half the team is one class, hell almost 2/3 of the entire squad is only 2 classes. That's the epitome of broken if you ask me.

[Miko.4158]

+2 cents. previously I would argue scourge isn't broken, its optimal, given condis' and the bunching in wvw for aoe.

too many scourges and they die to melee train, BUT I now see them roaming aswell. so the damage to sustain balance is out of kilter. You shouldn't be able to do both. certainly not at range/

here bizarely is where I trust the pvp balance team who crank the numbers.

[Nocturnal Lunacy.8563]

Biggest issue with nerfing scourge is that anet doesnt know how to stop. they will destroy necro completely as a class. as i would love to see scourge stomped into the dirt i don't want my main class to be sacrificed cuz a bunch of blobbers dont have easy "run over you" kills

the problem with ranger being the counter to this toxicity is that anet has nerfed ranger so much a ranger can't output enuf damage to kill scourges when theyre hiding in blobs. solo they can down a scourge easy but in a blob no deal. the ranger would have to use all zerker gear that means no vitality and no toughness and getting one shotted by enemy thieves. the balance in this game is so far beyond any semblance of balance the only way to get back to it is to scrap everything and start over. im afraid op classes and builds are going to be the norm until anet takes a course on "how to balance a game" and not just experimenting with the players with nonsense mechanics and toxic additions to the game. so much toxic mechanics have been added to this game and nothing to counter the toxic mechanics unless you scrap your favorite class for a counter class.

[dzeRnumbrd.6129]

> @"GottFaust.5297" said:

> Scourge isn't broken.

> The burst capability of condi is.

 

Condi builds actually require burst conditions because condition clearing is too abundant in WvW zergs.

 

So many classes have easy access to AoE condi clearing.

 

If "damaging" conditions were not clearable then you could really tone down conditions and make them far more attrition based.

 

So you would make Damage Conditions unclearable and leave Crown Control/Other conditions clearable:

 

Damage condis: bleed burn confusion poison torment

 

CC condis: blind chilled cripple fear immob slow traunt weakness

 

Other: vuln

 

Right now as it is, if you reduce burst on conditions then you condemn condi builds to the trash heap they used to live in for many years.

 

You look at current meta builds for scourge and they're are all heading down a power/condi hybrid burst (grieving, celestial) instead of a trailblazer path (condi burst + condi duration) because condi clearing is so strong that having +expertise (duration) is basically useless stat because of the all the condition clearing going on.

[nortask.8351]

> @"Galmac.4680" said:

> Sure, just nerf the necro, as usual. Now we don't have a second health bar, and gained instead some more power, and all ppl are screaming for the next nerf.

> But what's with the spellbreaker, twice invulnerable, can corrupt boones, blocks all the time, makes huge damage all the time. Nerf that first please. THEN talk about necros.

 

Show me one Spell Breaker skill that makes them invuln? Also show me how I can corrupt boons on my SB because that sounds hella lit. I could become such a great spell breaker if you just helped me out a bit with it!

[Mysteriax.6049]

Nerf Sand Savant in WvW.

[Sovereign.1093]

> @"nortask.8351" said:

> > @"Galmac.4680" said:

> > Sure, just nerf the necro, as usual. Now we don't have a second health bar, and gained instead some more power, and all ppl are screaming for the next nerf.

> > But what's with the spellbreaker, twice invulnerable, can corrupt boones, blocks all the time, makes huge damage all the time. Nerf that first please. THEN talk about necros.

>

> Show me one Spell Breaker skill that makes them invuln? Also show me how I can corrupt boons on my SB because that sounds hella lit. I could become such a great spell breaker if you just helped me out a bit with it!

 

last.spe b trait 2 to reflect condi on full counter.

 

as for doubke invul, mmm power or cindi?

[DKRathalos.9625]

> @"Sovereign.1093" said:

> > @"nortask.8351" said:

> > > @"Galmac.4680" said:

> > > Sure, just nerf the necro, as usual. Now we don't have a second health bar, and gained instead some more power, and all ppl are screaming for the next nerf.

> > > But what's with the spellbreaker, twice invulnerable, can corrupt boones, blocks all the time, makes huge damage all the time. Nerf that first please. THEN talk about necros.

> >

> > Show me one Spell Breaker skill that makes them invuln? Also show me how I can corrupt boons on my SB because that sounds hella lit. I could become such a great spell breaker if you just helped me out a bit with it!

>

> last.spe b trait 2 to reflect condi on full counter.

>

> as for doubke invul, mmm power or cindi?

 

Not exactly reflect just copy, so the condi still on you, but you give the same to enemy.

 

Anyway put that aside I am thinking that scourge kinda broken because scourges can stack their mark/shade, so if you trigger the mark from 3 scourge then boom more boon corrupt, meanwhile Spellbreaker won't stack their Bubble, they want it spread to cover field as much as possible plus wod is on 90 secs cd, meanwhile scourge's mark/shade is way lower than that.

[Sovereign.1093]

if they many scourge, then counter with revs

[Sovereign.1093]

scourge trait 2 bottom is op. =) shades ppl to death.

[czerwoni.9563]

> @"Ragnarox.9601" said:

> I made scourge just to test things out, did not know any skills what it do just pressing buttons and faceroll things. But it gets boring after a while when ppl start running from you. Pretty borring OP class.

 

its not broken, most of the damage from a scourge comes from boon stripping, one user mentioned that as long as people spam boons then scourge will always deal a lot of damage.

 

i play a lot of necro (used to main it) now i moved onto ele and have even used my thief dd against a scourge. wasn't that hard to counter them. when i command a group we run scourge down easy as long as people pay attention to their boons. 0 boons means less incoming damage from a scourge then have the ranged poke them out. or just throw in a mesmer and kite them out.

 

 

its like this

 

scissors "nerf rock its too op i can't counter"

also scissors "leave paper its balanced"

[Aza.2105]

> @"czerwoni.9563" said:

> its not broken, most of the damage from a scourge comes from boon stripping, one user mentioned that as long as people spam boons then scourge will always deal a lot of damage.

 

Well that is the problem. Everything gives boons, auto attacks, skills. Its pretty much outside of the players control. So they are being punished for something they can not control. Its actually very hard to make a boonless build because nearly everything in game gives boons.

[czerwoni.9563]

> @"Aza.2105" said:

> > @"czerwoni.9563" said:

> > its not broken, most of the damage from a scourge comes from boon stripping, one user mentioned that as long as people spam boons then scourge will always deal a lot of damage.

>

> Well that is the problem. Everything gives boons, auto attacks, skills. Its pretty much outside of the players control. So they are being punished for something they can not control. Its actually very hard to make a boonless build because nearly everything in game gives boons.

 

ya true, and if you look up boons you see that theres mostly scourge that converts boons, but remove that and what do you get?

 

they could make it more targeted and not an aoe convert but still its just one class that converts them to conditions.

[czerwoni.9563]

Necromancer tango icon 20px.png  

Corrupt Boon.png

Corrupt Boon; 3 on target foe

Necromancer tango icon 20px.png  

Well of Corruption.png

Well of Corruption; 1 from up to 5 foes per pulse

Scourge tango icon 20px.png  

Trail of Anguish.png

Trail of Anguish; 1 boon converted to torment and cripple

Scourge tango icon 20px.png  

Dessicate.png

Dessicate; 1 boon converted to torment and cripple

Scourge tango icon 20px.png  

Sand Swell.png

Sand Swell; 1 boon converted to torment and cripple

Scourge tango icon 20px.png  

Serpent Siphon.png

Serpent Siphon; 1 boon converted to torment and cripple

 

 

should be torment or cripple not and fix that and boom not so scary honestly

[Aza.2105]

> @"czerwoni.9563" said:

> > @"Aza.2105" said:

> > > @"czerwoni.9563" said:

> > > its not broken, most of the damage from a scourge comes from boon stripping, one user mentioned that as long as people spam boons then scourge will always deal a lot of damage.

> >

> > Well that is the problem. Everything gives boons, auto attacks, skills. Its pretty much outside of the players control. So they are being punished for something they can not control. Its actually very hard to make a boonless build because nearly everything in game gives boons.

>

> ya true, and if you look up boons you see that theres mostly scourge that converts boons, but remove that and what do you get?

>

> they could make it more targeted and not an aoe convert but still its just one class that converts them to conditions.

 

I think the solution would be to revisit boon application. Its too frequent, passive and attached to nearly every skill and trait. For example, if I want to use the strength tree for warrior. I'm punished because a minor trait gives might on dodge. Its not like you get to choose if that happens or not, Anet chooses for you. Nearly every trait line generates boons somehow for you doing something. Whether its dodge, a health threshold, block etc.

 

This is why scourge is a problem, because what its actually doing is punishing anets profession designs, not a build a player created. If in order to have boons you had to create a build to do so, scourge would be completely fair. Since it would be aimed towards certain builds. That isn't the case however, its punishing everyone just for playing. And you CAN NOT create a boonless build to counter it. Because something like that really doesn't exist.

 

[czerwoni.9563]

> @"Aza.2105" said:

> > @"czerwoni.9563" said:

> > > @"Aza.2105" said:

> > > > @"czerwoni.9563" said:

> > > > its not broken, most of the damage from a scourge comes from boon stripping, one user mentioned that as long as people spam boons then scourge will always deal a lot of damage.

> > >

> > > Well that is the problem. Everything gives boons, auto attacks, skills. Its pretty much outside of the players control. So they are being punished for something they can not control. Its actually very hard to make a boonless build because nearly everything in game gives boons.

> >

> > ya true, and if you look up boons you see that theres mostly scourge that converts boons, but remove that and what do you get?

> >

> > they could make it more targeted and not an aoe convert but still its just one class that converts them to conditions.

>

> I think the solution would be to revisit boon application. Its too frequent, passive and attached to nearly every skill and trait. For example, if I want to use the strength tree for warrior. I'm punished because a minor trait gives might on dodge. Its not like you get to choose if that happens or not, Anet chooses for you. Nearly every trait line generates boons somehow for you doing something. Whether its dodge, a health threshold, block etc.

>

> This is why scourge is a problem, because what its actually doing is punishing anets profession designs, not a build a player created. If in order to have boons you had to create a build to do so, scourge would be completely fair. Since it would be aimed towards certain builds. That isn't the case however, its punishing everyone just for playing. And you CAN NOT create a boonless build to counter it. Because something like that really doesn't exist.

>

 

i agree, and if they applied one corruption not 2 i mean that torment and cripple is op for pvp.

 

i used to main necro because the class was fun, then i moved onto thief. but as i got to end game content i focus more on ele and mesmer because the hate that comes with necro was too much. booted from everything even down to dungeon runs where people kicked me near the end because their friend wanted the results and i play necro legit made me quit for 4 months.

 

scourge is powerful but a deadeye can snipe them down, also people can use the condition to boon abilities on engineers to counter some of the damage.

[Sovereign.1093]

solution is to work together. 2 fbs per party can keep the team cleansed and clean.

 

old school save yourself and resolve resist. then mantra cleanse.

 

or malyx resist.

 

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

scourges are so defenseless? with base damage higher than eles?

scourges are so defenseless? why do I see time and time again scourges outrun everyone else? All hackers?

[geist.9173]

Only broken classes in this game are mesmer and thief. Scourge are mostly free kills.

[Bloodstealer.5978]

> @"Slugonaut.9841" said:

> Anyone who says scourge isnt broken, go watch any of the GvG NA tournament where almost every team has at least 5-7 scourges with 5+ Firebrands. Come on now, its ridiculous. In a 15v15 matchup almost half the team is one class, hell almost 2/3 of the entire squad is only 2 classes. That's the epitome of broken if you ask me.

 

As much as I dislike the way that scourge has been allowed to be so dominant in wvw relatively unchecked.. there has always been a tendancy to fill squads with "the next preferred meta class/builds".. blame zergwars not the players. Perhaps we forget when guardian hammer etc were a "you must be ".

 

Different class/build same garbage karmatrain zergwars.. wvw is not about organised groups and player skills its about numbers so if they do in fact take a proper look at scourge and nerf sand savant (as it should be, and I main a scourge) tomorrow we will be complaining about the next flavour of the month.

[Shazmataz.1423]

> @"czerwoni.9563" said:

> Necromancer tango icon 20px.png  

> Corrupt Boon.png

> Corrupt Boon; 3 on target foe

> Necromancer tango icon 20px.png  

> Well of Corruption.png

> Well of Corruption; 1 from up to 5 foes per pulse

> Scourge tango icon 20px.png  

> Trail of Anguish.png

> Trail of Anguish; 1 boon converted to torment and cripple

> Scourge tango icon 20px.png  

> Dessicate.png

> Dessicate; 1 boon converted to torment and cripple

> Scourge tango icon 20px.png  

> Sand Swell.png

> Sand Swell; 1 boon converted to torment and cripple

> Scourge tango icon 20px.png  

> Serpent Siphon.png

> Serpent Siphon; 1 boon converted to torment and cripple

>

>

> should be torment or cripple not and fix that and boom not so scary honestly

 

Scourge doesnt run all these at once and for goodness sake learn to dodge.

If Sand Savant was nerfed....the scourge issue would be about solved instead of the stupid cd nerfs that Anet is proposing. Scourge is no threat unless space is confined atm....fix aoe of shade and boom fixed.

 

Now if scourge had good options for mobility and speed in the current state of play then they would be over powered.

 

But rip scourge very soon with the nerf hammer then all the complainers will be crying nerf about the next thing that they die to.

[Sovereign.1093]

issue. ppl q because of hard to beat scourge.

reason. lack of scourge class understanding and their own class having not mastered it yet.

solution. practice.

[czerwoni.9563]

> @"Shazmataz.1423" said:

> > @"czerwoni.9563" said:

> > Necromancer tango icon 20px.png  

> > Corrupt Boon.png

> > Corrupt Boon; 3 on target foe

> > Necromancer tango icon 20px.png  

> > Well of Corruption.png

> > Well of Corruption; 1 from up to 5 foes per pulse

> > Scourge tango icon 20px.png  

> > Trail of Anguish.png

> > Trail of Anguish; 1 boon converted to torment and cripple

> > Scourge tango icon 20px.png  

> > Dessicate.png

> > Dessicate; 1 boon converted to torment and cripple

> > Scourge tango icon 20px.png  

> > Sand Swell.png

> > Sand Swell; 1 boon converted to torment and cripple

> > Scourge tango icon 20px.png  

> > Serpent Siphon.png

> > Serpent Siphon; 1 boon converted to torment and cripple

> >

> >

> > should be torment or cripple not and fix that and boom not so scary honestly

>

> Scourge doesnt run all these at once and for goodness sake learn to dodge.

> If Sand Savant was nerfed....the scourge issue would be about solved instead of the stupid cd nerfs that Anet is proposing. Scourge is no threat unless space is confined atm....fix aoe of shade and boom fixed.

>

> Now if scourge had good options for mobility and speed in the current state of play then they would be over powered.

>

> But rip scourge very soon with the nerf hammer then all the complainers will be crying nerf about the next thing that they die to.

 

I didn't say it runs them all at once I just copy and pasted from the page lol