Illconceived Was Na.9781 Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > > i think it would be cool if you could relist your item(s) after say 1 month for no cost. you still cant get your gold back by removing it altogether. > > > > Cool for us? Absolutely. Cool for speculators? Even more so. Good for the game as a whole? ANet isn't likely to agree...for all the reasons stated above. > > I don't get the first thing about not being able to use the tp as free storage. cant ppl already do this? People can store stuff but at a 5% listing fee cost, which makes it too expensive for speculation. > as for the second one, what if only one free repost every month was allowed, does that seem like a decent middle ground? The question is: why would ArenaNet want to invest time in a middle ground? What is the gameplay issue that needs to be addressed? The listing fee by sales tax system has been in game since the start. It works as a powerful gold sink, as a way to discourage people from over (or under) selling, and to prevent the TP from being used as free storage. Why would they want to spend time even considering a change unless there's a substantive issue? Also, the middle ground proposed would be tricky to implement, since they'd have to keep track of who reposted what and set up a reset timer. It's not complicated; it's just not an easy option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stand The Wall.6987 Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > > > i think it would be cool if you could relist your item(s) after say 1 month for no cost. you still cant get your gold back by removing it altogether. > > > > > > Cool for us? Absolutely. Cool for speculators? Even more so. Good for the game as a whole? ANet isn't likely to agree...for all the reasons stated above. > > > > I don't get the first thing about not being able to use the tp as free storage. cant ppl already do this? > People can store stuff but at a 5% listing fee cost, which makes it too expensive for speculation. > > > as for the second one, what if only one free repost every month was allowed, does that seem like a decent middle ground? > The question is: why would ArenaNet want to invest time in a middle ground? What is the gameplay issue that needs to be addressed? The listing fee by sales tax system has been in game since the start. It works as a powerful gold sink, as a way to discourage people from over (or under) selling, and to prevent the TP from being used as free storage. Why would they want to spend time even considering a change unless there's a substantive issue? > > Also, the middle ground proposed would be tricky to implement, since they'd have to keep track of who reposted what and set up a reset timer. It's not complicated; it's just not an easy option. > > im not saying get rid of the initial 5%. one repost every month doesn't seem like it would impact things too much, but youre right there isn't really any strong reason to do so other then an awesome qol change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bollocks.4078 Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 I believe they should allow for lowering a sell listing price for no additional charge. This would give sellers a lot more flexibility and help free up a lot of items that are currently stuck in the TP because the sellers don't want to have to re pay the listing fee to remove and relist, and possibly end up in the exact same situation again anyway. I have items I'd be more likely to list if they added this feature. If you want to raise the price you would still have to remove and relist and pay the listing fee again. > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > @"BBF geNko.3097" said: > > One thing that has always bugged me a little is that there is no option to simply just adjust your price on an item. > That's deliberate for a couple of reasons: > * It prevents using the TP as free storage (you could list e.g. silk scrap for 1000g each, which would never sell, and store as much as you like) > * It makes sellers think twice about what price they choose to list at. Without a fee, people would try for as high as possible first, and only lower gradually, if it didn't sell. This puts pressure on prices to rise generally. > I think you missed the point of the comment you quoted. Being able to adjust your price would not mean there's no listing fee. You still pay the listing fee of 5% of the initial listing price. The way I see it, you'd only be able to reduce the price (not raise the price). If you end up selling it for less then you paid a higher listing fee that you could have. Maybe that would make some people think twice about the initial listing price. When the item sells they could even still take 10% of the original listing price rather than the actual sell price. That would likely get even more people to think twice. Why pay 15% of 10s or 100s of gold that you not getting? There would probably be some serious price fluctuations on some items when many people adjust their pricing. I'd call that a market correction. In the long run I think the market would be better off. It would allow more price competition rather than having lots of items locked up on the TP and effectively removed from the market for not good reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illconceived Was Na.9781 Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 > @"Bollocks.4078" said: > I believe they should allow for lowering a sell listing price for no additional charge. This would give sellers a lot more flexibility and help free up a lot of items that are currently stuck in the TP because the sellers don't want to have to re pay the listing fee to remove and relist, and possibly end up in the exact same situation again anyway. I have items I'd be more likely to list if they added this feature. If you want to raise the price you would still have to remove and relist and pay the listing fee again. The idea is to reduce that flexibility, because people will always list higher to start with, to see what the market can bear. There really aren't items "stuck on the TP" -- there's always supply being hoarded that isn't on the TP. Relisting-for-free is _close_ to removing the listing fee entirely and just having a sales tax. > > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > > @"BBF geNko.3097" said: > > > One thing that has always bugged me a little is that there is no option to simply just adjust your price on an item. > > That's deliberate for a couple of reasons: > > * It prevents using the TP as free storage (you could list e.g. silk scrap for 1000g each, which would never sell, and store as much as you like) > > * It makes sellers think twice about what price they choose to list at. Without a fee, people would try for as high as possible first, and only lower gradually, if it didn't sell. This puts pressure on prices to rise generally. > > > > I think you missed the point of the comment you quoted. Being able to adjust your price would not mean there's no listing fee. On the contrary, I think you're not seeing the difference. Being able to adjust the price means there are no important consequences to listing high. That puts upward pressure on the market. > You still pay the listing fee of 5% of the initial listing price. The way I see it, you'd only be able to reduce the price (not raise the price). Again, that's really close to removing the fee and replacing it with an increased sales tax. > There would probably be some serious price fluctuations on some items when many people adjust their pricing. I'd call that a market correction. In the long run I think the market would be better off. It would allow more price competition rather than having lots of items locked up on the TP and effectively removed from the market for not good reason. Items get locked up because people are greedy and list higher to start with. That happens less often because of the non-refundable fee. Change it to a one-time fee and more people are going to start high, putting pressure on the market to go higher. That would be especially noticeable when new items are released. You're looking at the tip of the iceberg: the items that remain, while ignoring all the items that aren't on the TP because they already sold. **** Think of any change to the system as trading off benefits from one group to another. (It's not strictly zero-sum, of course.) Allowing free relisting helps speculators more than buyers. It trades off some items being left on the TP due to miscalculation on the seller's part, in favor of more items being sold (and therefore not remaining on the TP at all) at lower prices. It trades off the current modest equilibrium price for higher prices that take longer to reach equilibrium. None of that is inherently good or bad. The question is whether it's worth ANet's time to invest in changes to benefit a different group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabuki Theatre.9752 Posted May 18, 2019 Share Posted May 18, 2019 The TP is a complete, utter scam on the part of the game managers. It's a Ponzi scheme, they have got you coming and going. Much to their profit, and your amazement. Kind of like the New York Stock Exchange. Made for the benefit of the 1% and to the detriment of the 99%. Nothing new to see here folks, just keep moving along. The sheep get fleeced, and the wolves have dinner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illconceived Was Na.9781 Posted May 18, 2019 Share Posted May 18, 2019 > @"Kabuki Theatre.9752" said: > The TP is a complete, utter scam on the part of the game managers. > It's a Ponzi scheme, > they have got you coming and going. > Much to their profit, and your amazement. > Kind of like the New York Stock Exchange. > Made for the benefit of the 1% > and to the detriment of the 99%. > > Nothing new to see here folks, > just keep moving along. > > The sheep get fleeced, > and the wolves have dinner. Actually, it's of more _relative_ benefit to the 99%. In other games, without a robust trading system and globalized market, only those who understand markets can benefit overall. In this game, everyone gets the same price for all their goods, buying or selling. New players get substantial benefits from the fact that they can see easily how much stuff is worth to others, because the market prices are transparent. There are plenty of counter examples in which savvy individuals can earn from understanding the market. Even then, it largely means that those purchasing pay less than in similar situations in other games; those selling to the savvy end up getting more. There are few cases in which the market can be truly manipulated. Evon Gnashblade, unlike the NYSE, allows anyone to trade. Everyone pays the same fees. Everyone uses the same interface. And unlike a Ponzi scheme, newcomers can make out big. (I'm happy to walk you through the details, including how you can turn yourself into one of the 10%. Send me a PM.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabuki Theatre.9752 Posted May 18, 2019 Share Posted May 18, 2019 > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > @"Kabuki Theatre.9752" said: > > The TP is a complete, utter scam on the part of the game managers. > > It's a Ponzi scheme, > > they have got you coming and going. > > Much to their profit, and your amazement. > > Kind of like the New York Stock Exchange. > > Made for the benefit of the 1% > > and to the detriment of the 99%. > > > > Nothing new to see here folks, > > just keep moving along. > > > > The sheep get fleeced, > > and the wolves have dinner. > > Actually, it's of more _relative_ benefit to the 99%. In other games, without a robust trading system and globalized market, only those who understand markets can benefit overall. In this game, everyone gets the same price for all their goods, buying or selling. New players get substantial benefits from the fact that they can see easily how much stuff is worth to others, because the market prices are transparent. > > There are plenty of counter examples in which savvy individuals can earn from understanding the market. Even then, it largely means that those purchasing pay less than in similar situations in other games; those selling to the savvy end up getting more. There are few cases in which the market can be truly manipulated. > > Evon Gnashblade, unlike the NYSE, allows anyone to trade. Everyone pays the same fees. Everyone uses the same interface. > > And unlike a Ponzi scheme, newcomers can make out big. > > (I'm happy to walk you through the details, including how you can turn yourself into one of the 10%. Send me a PM.) Just sent you a PM, looking forward to your response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauried.5608 Posted May 18, 2019 Share Posted May 18, 2019 Its not hard to make gold on the TP, BUT, you have to be prepared to invest your time and your gold to achieve a good outcome. Most players simply dont have the patience , and want get rich quick schemes which involves them doing next to nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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