So when are the nerfs coming?

[FaboBabo.3581]

> @Malafaia.8903 said:

> > @"Menzies The Heretic.3415" said:

> > https://clips.twitch.tv/RockyVivaciousSnakeDxAbomb

>

> LOL, I don't think people will use the argument of "bad player" on this one.

 

actually yes

1. He is not running elusive Mind. He does not respect any condi damage

2. He uses every Jaunt before Scourge started putting condis on him + he waited on the last Jaunt, which cleared the Burn.

3. he Used every shatter

4. He does not use any other condi cleanse.

 

Watch his conditions as he had Jaunt + Dodges avaible; 0

As soon as he used every potential Cleanse, the scourge started putting Condis on Helseth.

-> Scourge OP

 

Seriously, Helseth is the King, but this was "bad playing"

He was arrogant like always, and thaught he could just use his ambushes and Jaunts to kill the scourge.

 

[Lyger.5429]

Spellbreaker is balanced, Scourge is not. /thread

[Jackalrat.5493]

Yes, something will always be too strong. That's why balance is a never-ending process.

 

Today, this process needs to be nerfing scourge and spellbreaker. They are both too strong. I am very tired of running against double scourge teams and having a full row of condis on me indefinitely in combat.

[Crinn.7864]

> @FaboBabo.3581 said:

> > @Malafaia.8903 said:

> > > @"Menzies The Heretic.3415" said:

> > > https://clips.twitch.tv/RockyVivaciousSnakeDxAbomb

> >

> > LOL, I don't think people will use the argument of "bad player" on this one.

>

> actually yes

> 1. He is not running elusive Mind. He does not respect any condi damage

> 2. He uses every Jaunt before Scourge started putting condis on him + he waited on the last Jaunt, which cleared the Burn.

> 3. he Used every shatter

> 4. He does not use any other condi cleanse.

>

> Watch his conditions as he had Jaunt + Dodges avaible; 0

> As soon as he used every potential Cleanse, the scourge started putting Condis on Helseth.

> -> Scourge OP

>

> Seriously, Helseth is the King, but this was "bad playing"

> He was arrogant like always, and thaught he could just use his ambushes and Jaunts to kill the scourge.

 

It's also worth noting that he didn't die from the sand shades (which is what he though he died to) He died because he was sanding in the Scourge's Elite which is just as bad as standing in a plaguelands. He was also waltzing around in Trail of Anguish for no apparent reason.

 

Helseth also fails to talk about his mirage's 17 confusion, 6 bleeds, 4 torment condibomb that he hit the necro with, with the necro barely surviving with a last second barrier + F2 cleanse. Helseth condibomb actually did more damage than the scourge's. However the scourge condi cleared while Helseth made no attempt to clear.

 

[Mthe mystery.4615]

The only thing spellbreaker offers is full counter lol.. Take that aways and the elite spec becomes useless. All this bitching and complaining made berserker useless in pvp. Stop complaining every time a warrior is in a good place.. The other specializations this expansion are harder to learn than spellbreaker. Warrior, in general, is one of the easier classes to master. To be good at weaver and holosmith will take time. Give it patience....... This shits giving me a headache anymore. Also, in the latest video posted in his forum post, there was a spellbreaker in the group the player was soloing. It was more of a skill issue than op issue. You can honestly 1v5 on any class in wvw if you roam for long enough...

[ArthurDent.9538]

Can we tone down the aoe nature of revenge counter? There is nothing more fun then getting randomly one-shot in a team fight because a teammate of mine decided to condi bomb a spell-breaker and then trigger full counter. Meanwhile the spellbreaker laughs at the condis on itself thanks to all the resistance it has stacked.

[Sigmoid.7082]

> @"Menzies The Heretic.3415" said:

> https://clips.twitch.tv/RockyVivaciousSnakeDxAbomb

 

I like how this keeps getting put everywhere as some sort of proof when he played the encounter poorly and arrogantly and got burned because of it. He doesn't even realise why he died just blames it on something else looking for an excuse for his poor decision making at this point in the fight. Also from the start of the encounter he almost kills the scourge in 4~5s, that is somehow fine, makes a misplay and dies in 4~5s..thats somehow absolute bull? Please. Are some things on scourge too strong? yes. Should they and will they get toned down? yes. But does this video prove anything? No not really.

[Hot Boy.7138]

I'm probably in the minority, but I think condi chrono/mirage needs some serious toning down. They apply a ton of pressure, while being very defensive and having strong heals and cleanses, and kiting ability.

[Saiyan.1704]

> @"Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485" said:

> > @Daharahj.1325 said:

> > > @"Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485" said:

> > > > @Havok.6073 said:

> > > > "Spellbreaker does everything better than any other class" LOL

> > > > It's getting ridiculous, soon enough the Spellbreaker will be able to beat even Chuck Norris. Keep the hyperbole going , guys. :smirk:

> > > Didn't you hear? Spellbreaker got massive team heal, massive condition application power (not just copying but full on apply), has the greatest ranged DPS in the game, teleports the whole map to their target, has the longest stealth ever (which pulses), can attune itself to 7 elements (take that elementlists), has even stronger turrets than Engie with better gadgets, AND they can kick 5 chuck noris's kitten

> > > ALL at the same time with a single full counter.

> >

> > You're strawmaning legitimate complaints about Spellbreaker. It's understandable that you don't want your main nerfed, but have some consideration for the health of spvp as a whole.

>

> it is called a joke.

 

Jokes are suppose to be funny mate. The real joke is how I have 2.5 hours on SB (11hrs on War) and i'm simply destroying people who've mained their class for years. Funny aye?

 

* **Spellbreaker:** Two weapons swaps, a F1/F2 usage, and 3 utility buttons to use, a dodge roll here and there. **Dead**

[Crinn.7864]

> @bluri.2653 said:

> 2. Thief got several endurance nerfs including PI nerfed by 15% and dont forget all sigils got revamped(good imo)

 

Didn't those nerfs come on the exact same patch where they buffed the crap out of thief shortbow, and also gutted the defensive capabilities of every other class?

 

[Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485]

> @Saiyan.1704 said:

> > @"Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485" said:

> > > @Daharahj.1325 said:

> > > > @"Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485" said:

> > > > > @Havok.6073 said:

> > > > > "Spellbreaker does everything better than any other class" LOL

> > > > > It's getting ridiculous, soon enough the Spellbreaker will be able to beat even Chuck Norris. Keep the hyperbole going , guys. :smirk:

> > > > Didn't you hear? Spellbreaker got massive team heal, massive condition application power (not just copying but full on apply), has the greatest ranged DPS in the game, teleports the whole map to their target, has the longest stealth ever (which pulses), can attune itself to 7 elements (take that elementlists), has even stronger turrets than Engie with better gadgets, AND they can kick 5 chuck noris's kitten

> > > > ALL at the same time with a single full counter.

> > >

> > > You're strawmaning legitimate complaints about Spellbreaker. It's understandable that you don't want your main nerfed, but have some consideration for the health of spvp as a whole.

> >

> > it is called a joke.

>

> Jokes are suppose to be funny mate. The real joke is how I have 2.5 hours on SB (11hrs on War) and i'm simply destroying people who've mained their class for years. Funny aye?

>

> * **Spellbreaker:** Two weapons swaps, a F1/F2 usage, and 3 utility buttons to use, a dodge roll here and there. **Dead**

 

cant account for taste, especially when people are needlessly angry as you seem to be

[FaboBabo.3581]

> @"Hot Boy.7138" said:

> I'm probably in the minority, but I think condi chrono/mirage needs some serious toning down. They apply a ton of pressure, while being very defensive and having strong heals and cleanses, and kiting ability.

 

Heals are from Inspiration. Regen heal is probably not worth mentioning, since u can get it from Chaos perm. Mirage alone is in a good cleansing spot in my opinion. Not too much, not too less.

 

As an example for a Mirage Trait ; Get 1,5 s protection when u gain Mirage cloak. It's a Master trait.

 

Would u nerf it to 0,5 seconds?

[Unholy Pillager.3791]

> @"Hot Boy.7138" said:

> I'm probably in the minority, but I think condi chrono/mirage needs some serious toning down. They apply a ton of pressure, while being very defensive and having strong heals and cleanses, and kiting ability.

 

Condi Chrono is extremely weak now compared to how it was a year ago. Personally, I mostly see match outcomes being determined by the Scourge/support combo in every map except for Foefire (because it's possible to contest the point without standing in the AoEs, and just generally because the graveyard area is favorable to ranged burst setups). Plus, with the way Scourge AoEs and Spellbreaker FC both massacre illusions, it's almost impossible for a Chrono to get enough illusions up at a given time for a decent burst or cleanse.

 

Personally, I've had a fair amount of success with Soulbeast of all things, since Bear Stance is basically "Immune to Scourge (4 s)" and they can drop unprotected Scourges in a couple seconds, or harass and kite Spellbreakers while freely hitting FC from beyond its AoE range.

[ZhouX.8742]

> @Crinn.7864 said:

> > @FaboBabo.3581 said:

> > > @Malafaia.8903 said:

> > > > @"Menzies The Heretic.3415" said:

> > > > https://clips.twitch.tv/RockyVivaciousSnakeDxAbomb

> > >

> > > LOL, I don't think people will use the argument of "bad player" on this one.

> >

> > actually yes

> > 1. He is not running elusive Mind. He does not respect any condi damage

> > 2. He uses every Jaunt before Scourge started putting condis on him + he waited on the last Jaunt, which cleared the Burn.

> > 3. he Used every shatter

> > 4. He does not use any other condi cleanse.

> >

> > Watch his conditions as he had Jaunt + Dodges avaible; 0

> > As soon as he used every potential Cleanse, the scourge started putting Condis on Helseth.

> > -> Scourge OP

> >

> > Seriously, Helseth is the King, but this was "bad playing"

> > He was arrogant like always, and thaught he could just use his ambushes and Jaunts to kill the scourge.

>

> It's also worth noting that he didn't die from the sand shades (which is what he though he died to) He died because he was sanding in the Scourge's Elite which is just as bad as standing in a plaguelands. He was also waltzing around in Trail of Anguish for no apparent reason.

>

> Helseth also fails to talk about his mirage's 17 confusion, 6 bleeds, 4 torment condibomb that he hit the necro with, with the necro barely surviving with a last second barrier + F2 cleanse. Helseth condibomb actually did more damage than the scourge's. However the scourge condi cleared while Helseth made no attempt to clear.

>

 

he had distortion up and then evaded after distortion was down through the trails of anguish so it didnt do as much as you think also if you notice it doesn't even clear the vigor he had built up initially before jumping into the fight to begin with.

 

essentially his issue was he literally blew dodges, distortion and everything to be offensive and then stood in pillar and sand for about 1-2 seconds and ate a condi chain with no cleanses left and no way to mitigate the damage.

 

leaping back into the fight was his issue when he should have stayed back

 

he could have played it better, but tried to get the kill off fast and got greedy

 

the funny thing in that clip is the scourge didn't outplay him, he outplayed himself lol

[Aomine.5012]

> @Aza.2105 said:

> > @kKagari.6804 said:

> > The people I defeat with Spellbreaker, I'm quite sure I can do without using Full Counter. The toolset is strong because of the sustain, Full Counter is just the icing on the cake. It's simply another high damage packet burst that has a slightly different mechanic. Sure, you can't block it, but you can evade it and it does require you to hit them first. How is that any different to me unloading an arcing slice for even more damage?

> >

> > If theres anything to complain about its how ridiculously good magebane tether is. I wouldn't take revenge counter unless I'm up against heavy conditions.

>

> The difference is is that surrounding players get highly punished by a single player who so happens to hit a warrior during full counter. In addition you only have a very tiny interval to punish a warrior due to high sustain, resistance, blocks, invul and mobility all while wearing a dps amulet. How is that not a problem?

 

Ikr, I have no problem soloing spellbreaker.

 

But in 2 V 2 my trash teammate could hit Spellbreaker carelessly and got me stun/ condi bomb because of his stupidity.

It also makes my block skill pointless cuz the teammates will just hit it anyway..

[Urejt.5648]

Nerfs are comming in pvp patch which is scheduled in november, during time between pvp seasons.

[Exciton.8942]

> @Crinn.7864 said:

> > @FaboBabo.3581 said:

> > > @Malafaia.8903 said:

> > > > @"Menzies The Heretic.3415" said:

> > > > https://clips.twitch.tv/RockyVivaciousSnakeDxAbomb

> > >

> > > LOL, I don't think people will use the argument of "bad player" on this one.

> >

> > actually yes

> > 1. He is not running elusive Mind. He does not respect any condi damage

> > 2. He uses every Jaunt before Scourge started putting condis on him + he waited on the last Jaunt, which cleared the Burn.

> > 3. he Used every shatter

> > 4. He does not use any other condi cleanse.

> >

> > Watch his conditions as he had Jaunt + Dodges avaible; 0

> > As soon as he used every potential Cleanse, the scourge started putting Condis on Helseth.

> > -> Scourge OP

> >

> > Seriously, Helseth is the King, but this was "bad playing"

> > He was arrogant like always, and thaught he could just use his ambushes and Jaunts to kill the scourge.

>

> It's also worth noting that he didn't die from the sand shades (which is what he though he died to) He died because he was sanding in the Scourge's Elite which is just as bad as standing in a plaguelands. He was also waltzing around in Trail of Anguish for no apparent reason.

>

> Helseth also fails to talk about his mirage's 17 confusion, 6 bleeds, 4 torment condibomb that he hit the necro with, with the necro barely surviving with a last second barrier + F2 cleanse. Helseth condibomb actually did more damage than the scourge's. However the scourge condi cleared while Helseth made no attempt to clear.

>

 

That is exactly the difference.

 

The mirage has to exhaust all the CDs to land those conditions. The scourge doesn't have to. F5 together with shade is enough to load tons of conditions. Then he still has several condi transfers + F2 cleanse to do other things. And the scourge survived with stability + consume conditions not last second barrier and F2 cleanse.

 

Edit: To elaborate, the condition burst from mirage comes from

F1 and F2 shatter in melee range to trigger inepitude

2 Jaunt on top to get confusion stacks.

Dodge twice on top of target to get 6 stacks of bleed.

 

In addition, he uses distortion to counter the signet condition transfer.

 

The only misplay he had is sword 2 to close up in order to apply more pressure. During that 1 sec he got in melee range, he got bombarded by conditions. He is already very quick in reaction to phase retreat out of hazard.

 

To be honest, I don't how baddies keep calling helseth arrogant and played poorly in the clip. In reality, he did pretty okay. He did underestimate scourge's condi bomb that can be applied in mere 1 sec of time. But I don't see what else he did wrong there.

 

Edit2: Honestly, the mirage condition burst is already borderline OP. However, it is still done by using 4 skills+distortion, 2 dodges+ambush over 3-4 sec of time. Scourge burst is just on another level....

[Crinn.7864]

> @Exciton.8942 said:

> > @Crinn.7864 said:

> > > @FaboBabo.3581 said:

> > > > @Malafaia.8903 said:

> > > > > @"Menzies The Heretic.3415" said:

> > > > > https://clips.twitch.tv/RockyVivaciousSnakeDxAbomb

> > > >

> > > > LOL, I don't think people will use the argument of "bad player" on this one.

> > >

> > > actually yes

> > > 1. He is not running elusive Mind. He does not respect any condi damage

> > > 2. He uses every Jaunt before Scourge started putting condis on him + he waited on the last Jaunt, which cleared the Burn.

> > > 3. he Used every shatter

> > > 4. He does not use any other condi cleanse.

> > >

> > > Watch his conditions as he had Jaunt + Dodges avaible; 0

> > > As soon as he used every potential Cleanse, the scourge started putting Condis on Helseth.

> > > -> Scourge OP

> > >

> > > Seriously, Helseth is the King, but this was "bad playing"

> > > He was arrogant like always, and thaught he could just use his ambushes and Jaunts to kill the scourge.

> >

> > It's also worth noting that he didn't die from the sand shades (which is what he though he died to) He died because he was sanding in the Scourge's Elite which is just as bad as standing in a plaguelands. He was also waltzing around in Trail of Anguish for no apparent reason.

> >

> > Helseth also fails to talk about his mirage's 17 confusion, 6 bleeds, 4 torment condibomb that he hit the necro with, with the necro barely surviving with a last second barrier + F2 cleanse. Helseth condibomb actually did more damage than the scourge's. However the scourge condi cleared while Helseth made no attempt to clear.

> >

>

> That is exactly the difference.

>

> The mirage has to exhaust all the CDs to land those conditions. The scourge doesn't have to. F5 together with shade is enough to load tons of conditions. Then he still has several condi transfers + F2 cleanse to do other things. And the scourge survived with stability + consume conditions not last second barrier and F2 cleanse.

>

> Edit: To elaborate, the condition burst from mirage comes from

> F1 and F2 shatter in melee range to trigger inepitude

> 2 Jaunt on top to get confusion stacks.

> Dodge twice on top of target to get 6 stacks of bleed.

>

> In addition, he uses distortion to counter the signet condition transfer.

>

> The only misplay he had is sword 2 to close up in order to apply more pressure. During that 1 sec he got in melee range, he got bombarded by conditions. He is already very quick in reaction to phase retreat out of hazard.

>

> To be honest, I don't how baddies keep calling helseth arrogant and played poorly in the clip. In reality, he did pretty okay. He did underestimate scourge's condi bomb that can be applied in mere 1 sec of time. But I don't see what else he did wrong there.

>

> Edit2: Honestly, the mirage condition burst is already borderline OP. However, it is still done by using 4 skills+distortion, 2 dodges+ambush over 3-4 sec of time. Scourge burst is just on another level....

 

Except you keep thinking he died to shades.

 

Between the time his distortion expired to him trying to disengange he got hit with the following:

-multiple hits of Ghastly Breach.

-at least 1 shade hit

-multiple hits of Trail of Anguish.

 

It was well within the his power to avoid taking that damage but he chose not to. Instead he decided that continuing to melee a class known for it's melee hate despite having already used his distortion was a good idea. Perhaps he would do well to realize that scourge is actually a threat to Mesmer instead of easy pushover that reaper is.

 

[rurreres.3214]

New player here. played about a month or so. Absolutely loved this game and the pvp from the start (I always pvp in every mmo) bought the expansions for the boost etc. Played most classes, so far unranked/wvw only and its easy to pick up. Since PoF however, I feel less and less like pvping or even logging in. The pvp which in my eyes seemed fun, enganging and more customizable compared to other mmos (build/specs) has turned freaking stale... Scourge and spellbreakers have basicly destroyed every enjoyment I had and atm im kinda just waiting for SWBF2 and AC origins.

 

Atm every match has either 1 scourge and spellbreaker or multiple. Top that with druids endless selfhealing and firebrand bunkers its just a crapfest. Nothing can be capped and u feel punished for not playing any of those specs. Sure, the ideal player can beat all of them with core specs, but as far as unranked is concerned it most likely wont happen with a pug team. Evading FC? sure... only to have a team member hit it and then its 8 seconds til that crap again, combine that with Shield and the warrior aint going down. Capping a node? better bring a couple of scourges urself or ull find urself dead in seconds. Now I am most likely not as good as most of u, but this just aint fun and I doubt anyone, but the players playing spellbreaker and scourge are having fun. I really hope that tweaks to scourge and spellbreakers come soon, cause right now I feel like shelfing this game.

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

> @Malafaia.8903 said:

> > @Havok.6073 said:

> > > @Malafaia.8903 said:

> > > > @Majirah.5089 said:

> > > > > @Malafaia.8903 said:

> > > > > So, i'm really new to pvp but now that i understand the mechanics of it, my skills, other classes skills, when to block, when to disengage a lost fight, etc, i'm being considerably sucessfull.

> > > > > Fact is, you don't need to be a pro to know that Scourges and Spellbreakers are, hm, broken. The Spellbreakers, in my opinion, is the worst of all. What i'm missing? These guys are invul all the time, can't even hit them, seriously. The Scourges are, as stated above, "slow-ish moving nuclear warhead", but they can be harmed. Problem is i can't stand on a point with them with my guardian, what i suppose wasn't meant to happen, right?

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > I think the first part of your first sentence said it all. You are new to pvp. You don't know enough to call them broken. Invulnerable all the time? Can't even hit them? Hyperbole much? That or severe learn to play. Or both.

> > >

> > > Ok, clearly a Spellbreaker player (not a single word about Scourge).

> > > I'm being honest when i tell that i'm new to pvp, but still, the second part of my sentence states that i'm not hitting random buttons and hoping for the best (what i know happens a lot in spvp). You attacked me and not a single word about the fact: Spellbreakers.

> > > Let the salt aside and tell me, if Spellbreaker isn't broken, how to counter it? Whats yours flaws? Things like this should happen? Look how this guy is being bombed by 5 ppl, dont even bother with positioning, dont even need to use his heal skill for the entire fight! If was monkeys behind the keyboard on the other side against any other class this guy would be dead.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > I am very sorry, but having seen the video i think those five player are absolute POOP. Two of them simply walk around the SB waiting to be executed, you might as well post a video of chimps trying to build with Lego.

>

> Ok, if you wanna stay on the sea of eternal salt, be there man.

> I'm really trying to understand why spellbreaker should stay the way it is, aka trying to understand you spellbreakers point, but till now all i've received was insults and a childish attempt to disqualify the arguments and facts.

> Anyone can contribute with this discussion in a upper level?

 

He's right you know. Those 5 players were probably the worst I've ever seen, even the guy making the video can't believe how bad they are.

[Jinks.2057]

It's funny watching necro mains defend scourge by saying one of the best players in the world isn't good enough lol.

 

 

[Unholy Pillager.3791]

> @Aomine.5012 said:

> > @Aza.2105 said:

> > > @kKagari.6804 said:

> > > The people I defeat with Spellbreaker, I'm quite sure I can do without using Full Counter. The toolset is strong because of the sustain, Full Counter is just the icing on the cake. It's simply another high damage packet burst that has a slightly different mechanic. Sure, you can't block it, but you can evade it and it does require you to hit them first. How is that any different to me unloading an arcing slice for even more damage?

> > >

> > > If theres anything to complain about its how ridiculously good magebane tether is. I wouldn't take revenge counter unless I'm up against heavy conditions.

> >

> > The difference is is that surrounding players get highly punished by a single player who so happens to hit a warrior during full counter. In addition you only have a very tiny interval to punish a warrior due to high sustain, resistance, blocks, invul and mobility all while wearing a dps amulet. How is that not a problem?

>

> Ikr, I have no problem soloing spellbreaker.

>

> But in 2 V 2 my trash teammate could hit Spellbreaker carelessly and got me stun/ condi bomb because of his stupidity.

> It also makes my block skill pointless cuz the teammates will just hit it anyway..

 

To be fair, it shouldn't be possible for them to win (or at least not lose) a sustain battle with a Marauder's Amulet when they get outplayed. Their shield skills have cooldowns comparable to similar skills other professions have, but the cooldown on FC is far too short for what it does.

[Menzies The Heretic.3415]

Scourge is still happily carrying scrubs to legend

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

> @Crinn.7864 said:

> > @bluri.2653 said:

> > 2. Thief got several endurance nerfs including PI nerfed by 15% and dont forget all sigils got revamped(good imo)

>

> Didn't those nerfs come on the exact same patch where they buffed the crap out of thief shortbow, and also gutted the defensive capabilities of every other class?

>

 

Nope those Nerfs were across multiple Balance patches if people cared to read Balance patches and then the buff to SB 4 got gutted rightfully so.

Pesky facts I know, and they nerfed the some of those thing she multiple times across those different patches.

[Mutaatti.2789]

> @"Reaper Alim.4176" said:

> Can Soulbeast, Weaver, and Renegade also gets specs that are just as brokenly over tuned as Chronomancer and Daredevil are? Or are well just going to be fine with DD and Chrono being the only broken specs allowed?

 

I don't get it? OK maybe they were overtuned in legendary div meaning top 20? Haven't seen any good thieves this or previous season under 1700 rating. Mesmer is little meh... You needed to be actually GOOD to win every duel and maybe it needs some nerfs but that's it. It counters thieves with portal so you can't remove that.

 

But thief...? Really?

 

And biggest impact would be to remove duoQ, so there wouldnt be guarantee that thief and mesmer gets to same team even in top 20. ^^ (except if everyone at top20 played those classes and then it would be clown fiesta.