My perspective on the reward structure

[Leo G.4501]

> @"AlexxxDelta.1806" said:

> > @"Leo G.4501" said:

> > > @"AlexxxDelta.1806" said:

> > > > @"Genuinetheo.6591" said:

> > > > > @"AlexxxDelta.1806" said:

> > > > > The fact that threads like this exist and a (valid) advice given by many to OP is "take a break", is an issue in itself. Players "taking breaks" from grind burnouts are not guaranteed to come back and it's getting harder to "replenish the ranks" as an aging MMO. And being better than korean grinders doesn't say much, are these the standards we are holding GW2 up to these days? Its own developers used to have the bar higher than that when it all started.

> > > > >

> > > > > " Because, like Guild Wars before it, GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs. It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill; it doesn’t make you spend hours preparing to have fun rather than just having fun; " - Mike O'Brien , 2010.

> > > >

> > > > That quote still holds true to this day. Level 80 exotics will take you through most of the game, unless you plan on doing fractals or raids. Take a korean MMO, for example... you're farming nonstop to upgrade your gear to hit the next tier of bosses or beat your opponents in pvp.

> > > >

> > > > People are taking breaks from Guild Wars 2 because they fall into the trap of **gold farming**. "If I don't do Silverwastes, then I'm not really making gold," "If I don't do fractals...," so on and so forth. This is a valid way to farm because the game doesn't do a good job of just handing you gold; the markets would be in chaos. You are your own boss in Guild Wars 2, and you can do whatever your heart desires. Some people believe that means farming gold nonstop.

> > > >

> > > > And that's where people find fatigue and boredom just waiting for them.

> > >

> > > You assume that gear grind is only applicable when we are talking about power. You get BiS gear in this game relatively early but skins and customization take its place as the endgame goal. There is a reason people call this game "fashion wars", it is a big part of its endgame loop for PVE.

> > >

> > > I agree that people fall into the "trap" of gold farming and get jaded. But why is it happening? Why do all these people feel compelled to farm their eyes out in Istan or SW? To me the answer is obvious. Gold is the only meaningful reward in the game. The majority of new "shinies" are entering the game through the gem store. In order to keep up with this, with the exhange on the rise for years now, players feel the need to farm gold. If they don't, they are left with the pitiful amount of gear that enters the game via LS every 4 months. When was the last time you saw something exciting after opening that champ bag? When that changes then people will start playing the game again instead of focusing on gold so much.

> >

> > The problem with this line of thinking is two-fold.

> >

> > One, if we take your rationalization as the current perspective, then GW2 is the height of P2W since cash can not only obtain gold but also gems. I feel this would be a hard stretch of a perspective to take and ultimately kind of defeats the perspective of "too much grind". It's it's too much grind, then get a real job which has a much better return on your time investment and then turn that cash into progress. If you have a working car, you can literally earn a month's progress in an afternoon working Lift.

> >

> > For two, considering how subjective fashion is, it's only reinforced that you dictate your own grind in GW2. If you consider one or two fashionable skins as your goal, slowly grinding to obtain them is one-part purpose of logging into the game and one-part enjoyment from anticipation of getting it and eventually obtaining it. If you consider skins as a collect-a-thon built for the OCD riddled individuals who have to obtain everything, then you've got a mess on your hands. While there's nothing wrong with wanting to fill out your wardrobe with every option, taking it a step further and feeling you NEED those skins because of how great they look is beginning to push into the realm of envy which is a vice on a personal level. You may WANT those skins, but you certainly don't NEED them thus you don't NEED to grind to get them.

> >

> > The business model for MMOs is often getting players to grind for things they want or need in-game. If Anet somehow tricked players into believing they NEED skins, then perhaps they are far more clever than people (don't) give them credit for.

>

> I don't think GW2 is p2w because while it is selling many things, power was never one of them. We can't pretend customization is NOT a huge part of its endgame loop though, for PVE at least. And I can afford this "gem boosted" progress fine, no need for Lift driving. I just, and maybe I'm weird, don't think "playing" the cash store qualifies as gameplay. Maybe because I grew up playing games where you earned that cool new sword by playing the actual game.

>

 

I know gw2 isn't p2w because I know cosmetics are optional. But if that is the case then that means the grind is optional thus the reason I made the comparison. It dismantles the notion that it being too grindy is more than less dependent on the player, not the game.

 

And I also grew up when you earned that cool flashy weapon... But the weapon was flashy or cool because it was unique. Not unique in look, but rather in all aspects. Like it would have a skill unique to it or it would have an inherent trait that boosted you class or something. But everything is purely cosmetic so I have a different view of what is considered "the cool new sword" here.

 

 

 

[Biff.5312]

This is entirely a matter of perspective. It's easy to eschew dailies in order to do something fun. I'm always seeing people complain that the daily rewards aren't that great anyway. You'll live without them. Any grinding that occurs in this game is solely the choice of the player.

[Cuks.8241]

Sorry OP but I don't think the problem is the game but you. Everything beyond ascended gear is just fluff. You don't really need all the collections and all the cosmetics and tons of gold and everything else. It will probably not enhance your gaming experience at all even if you manage to get them all. You would probably just quit.

Even AP grind is actually meaningless. Sure there are some nice skins in there but they are still just skins like gazillion others. And the amount of gems you get is minuscule and again can only buy more or less fluff.

 

In no way is the game preventing you to play how you like. There is no gear check or progression check, it is only you.

[Yasi.9065]

> @"Genuinetheo.6591" said:

> > @"AlexxxDelta.1806" said:

> > The fact that threads like this exist and a (valid) advice given by many to OP is "take a break", is an issue in itself. Players "taking breaks" from grind burnouts are not guaranteed to come back and it's getting harder to "replenish the ranks" as an aging MMO. And being better than korean grinders doesn't say much, are these the standards we are holding GW2 up to these days? Its own developers used to have the bar higher than that when it all started.

> >

> > " Because, like Guild Wars before it, GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs. It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill; it doesn’t make you spend hours preparing to have fun rather than just having fun; " - Mike O'Brien , 2010.

>

> That quote still holds true to this day. Level 80 exotics will take you through most of the game, unless you plan on doing fractals or raids. Take a korean MMO, for example... you're farming nonstop to upgrade your gear to hit the next tier of bosses or beat your opponents in pvp.

>

> People are taking breaks from Guild Wars 2 because they fall into the trap of **gold farming**. "If I don't do Silverwastes, then I'm not really making gold," "If I don't do fractals...," so on and so forth. This is a valid way to farm because the game doesn't do a good job of just handing you gold; the markets would be in chaos. You are your own boss in Guild Wars 2, and you can do whatever your heart desires. Some people believe that means farming gold nonstop.

>

> And that's where people find fatigue and boredom just waiting for them.

 

You are absolutely wrong. Utterly wrong. GW2 is the ONLY mmorpg out there, where people leave / take a break because they are *bored*. Not because they burned themselves out. They are bored with the cookie cutter content every 3-5 months that doesnt add anything exciting to the game, anything to invest time in, anything to keep them entertained. Not a single person I know - and as a former guild leader, a current raid static leader I know a ton of gw2 players - left the game due to having burned himself out with too much farming. Quite the contrary, especially since PoF Ive had 50+ friends/guildmates leave the game due to boredom.

You are absolutely kidding yourself, if you think silverwastes could burn anyone out. Or ANY content in gw2 could lead to a burn out.

 

That quote, btw, also only is meant towards a gear/level treadmill. Not in the broad sense you are interpreting it in. Its not meant that there will be zero grind, rather that you have your endgear/maxlevel pretty fast and that you then can enjoy endcontent. It says "you wont have to grind too much for your endgear/maxlevel and you will get your endgear/maxlevel pretty early into the game". Nothing more, nothing less.

 

This thread however, isnt about that. Its about how gw2 rewards stupidly boring, effortlessly easy content like silverwastes and formerly istan with twice, three times as much reward than halfway decent challenging or interesting content.

This thread is about how the rigid reward structure that was put into place to **prevent** grind, actually turns the game even more into a daily-have-to-log-in-and-do-dailies grind. Because you cant just get the same rewards when logging in on weekend for a few hours. So if you are actively working towards something, you have to log in daily and do your daily routine. Thats grind, pure and simple.

 

> @"Rasimir.6239" said:

> > @"AlexxxDelta.1806" said:

> > I agree that people fall into the "trap" of gold farming and get jaded. But why is it happening? Why do all these people feel compelled to farm their eyes out in Istan or SW? To me the answer is obvious. Gold is the only meaningful reward in the game. The majority of new "shinies" are entering the game through the gem store.

> This game has a lot more meaningful rewards than gold. There is so much you can gain in game that gives you both shinies (skins, minis, titles, ...) and the satisfaction of gaining said shinies that this can keep you busy without either gold farming or gem store purchases for a long time.

>

> Figuring out events, scavenger hunts, fractal mechanics and more is playing the game, and it takes time, sometimes more, sometimes less. If you prefer to work through a Dulfy checklist to grab the "shinies" in the least time possible, you are robbing yourself of a huge part of gameplay, enjoyment, exploration,sense of achievement, and "rewarding" rewards.

>

> I have to admit I've never gotten why so many players see gold as their primary goal. If you reduce the game to "grind gold, buy gemstore stuff" it's no wonder you find little enjoyment in it. This game is so much more, but if getting gold and shopping for gemstore pixels is all you can think of, then I can see where the game gets stale quickly.

>

>

 

The rewards you get, be it mats, exp, karma, gold, skins... they represent stepping stones in an mmo. They are meant to guide you through the vast world of an mmo. If you want, they are mini-goals, little tasks to do to keep you invested into the game. As such, ofc a lot of players go for biggest rewards first. That in itself is not a problem, the problem in gw2 rather is that gemshop offers best rewards, and since you can convert gold to gems, the logical conclusion is to farm gold and convert to gems to get those rewards.

Gemshop getting best, and in case of for example mountskins or outfits really only rewards, thats why some players focus so much on gold.

 

But as the post before, thats not what this is about. Im not saying we need more gold rewards. Im saying we need rewards for repeating content, with timegates reduced to only skins and map currency. The reason Im saying this, isnt because I want to grind the *beep* out of something, its because I want to stop feeling shepherded by anet into content I just simply dont care about at that time. And its because currently the timegated reward is blown just way out of proportions. If you adhere to anets schedule for you, you get 30+ gold per hour. If you dont adhere to that schedule, you get a few masterwork items.

This imbalance is quite frankly offputting. And its not something Ive ever experienced in any other mmo before.

 

Thats one part, the other part is that activities like running around in a circle opening chests or running around in a circle gathering mussels, are getting way higher rewards than for example doing raids, or worldbosses. Thats another imbalance in the rewardstructure. Rewards in gw2 dont reflect in any way the effort you put into getting them. While it doesnt have to be "more effort equals more reward", gw2 with its "less effort equals more reward" is absolutely horrible. Because less effort in this case really means brainless grinding. The exact thing anet wanted to avoid.

[Genuinetheo.6591]

> @"Yasi.9065" said:

> > @"Genuinetheo.6591" said:

> > > @"AlexxxDelta.1806" said:

> > > The fact that threads like this exist and a (valid) advice given by many to OP is "take a break", is an issue in itself. Players "taking breaks" from grind burnouts are not guaranteed to come back and it's getting harder to "replenish the ranks" as an aging MMO. And being better than korean grinders doesn't say much, are these the standards we are holding GW2 up to these days? Its own developers used to have the bar higher than that when it all started.

> > >

> > > " Because, like Guild Wars before it, GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs. It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill; it doesn’t make you spend hours preparing to have fun rather than just having fun; " - Mike O'Brien , 2010.

> >

> > That quote still holds true to this day. Level 80 exotics will take you through most of the game, unless you plan on doing fractals or raids. Take a korean MMO, for example... you're farming nonstop to upgrade your gear to hit the next tier of bosses or beat your opponents in pvp.

> >

> > People are taking breaks from Guild Wars 2 because they fall into the trap of **gold farming**. "If I don't do Silverwastes, then I'm not really making gold," "If I don't do fractals...," so on and so forth. This is a valid way to farm because the game doesn't do a good job of just handing you gold; the markets would be in chaos. You are your own boss in Guild Wars 2, and you can do whatever your heart desires. Some people believe that means farming gold nonstop.

> >

> > And that's where people find fatigue and boredom just waiting for them.

>

> You are absolutely wrong. Utterly wrong. GW2 is the ONLY mmorpg out there, where people leave / take a break because they are *bored*. Not because they burned themselves out. They are bored with the cookie cutter content every 3-5 months that doesnt add anything exciting to the game, anything to invest time in, anything to keep them entertained. Not a single person I know - and as a former guild leader, a current raid static leader I know a ton of gw2 players - left the game due to having burned himself out with too much farming. Quite the contrary, especially since PoF Ive had 50+ friends/guildmates leave the game due to boredom.

> You are absolutely kidding yourself, if you think silverwastes could burn anyone out. Or ANY content in gw2 could lead to a burn out.

>

> That quote, btw, also only is meant towards a gear/level treadmill. Not in the broad sense you are interpreting it in. Its not meant that there will be zero grind, rather that you have your endgear/maxlevel pretty fast and that you then can enjoy endcontent. It says "you wont have to grind too much for your endgear/maxlevel and you will get your endgear/maxlevel pretty early into the game". Nothing more, nothing less.

>

> This thread however, isnt about that. Its about how gw2 rewards stupidly boring, effortlessly easy content like silverwastes and formerly istan with twice, three times as much reward than halfway decent challenging or interesting content.

> This thread is about how the rigid reward structure that was put into place to **prevent** grind, actually turns the game even more into a daily-have-to-log-in-and-do-dailies grind. Because you cant just get the same rewards when logging in on weekend for a few hours. So if you are actively working towards something, you have to log in daily and do your daily routine. Thats grind, pure and simple.

>

> > @"Rasimir.6239" said:

> > > @"AlexxxDelta.1806" said:

> > > I agree that people fall into the "trap" of gold farming and get jaded. But why is it happening? Why do all these people feel compelled to farm their eyes out in Istan or SW? To me the answer is obvious. Gold is the only meaningful reward in the game. The majority of new "shinies" are entering the game through the gem store.

> > This game has a lot more meaningful rewards than gold. There is so much you can gain in game that gives you both shinies (skins, minis, titles, ...) and the satisfaction of gaining said shinies that this can keep you busy without either gold farming or gem store purchases for a long time.

> >

> > Figuring out events, scavenger hunts, fractal mechanics and more is playing the game, and it takes time, sometimes more, sometimes less. If you prefer to work through a Dulfy checklist to grab the "shinies" in the least time possible, you are robbing yourself of a huge part of gameplay, enjoyment, exploration,sense of achievement, and "rewarding" rewards.

> >

> > I have to admit I've never gotten why so many players see gold as their primary goal. If you reduce the game to "grind gold, buy gemstore stuff" it's no wonder you find little enjoyment in it. This game is so much more, but if getting gold and shopping for gemstore pixels is all you can think of, then I can see where the game gets stale quickly.

> >

> >

>

> The rewards you get, be it mats, exp, karma, gold, skins... they represent stepping stones in an mmo. They are meant to guide you through the vast world of an mmo. If you want, they are mini-goals, little tasks to do to keep you invested into the game. As such, ofc a lot of players go for biggest rewards first. That in itself is not a problem, the problem in gw2 rather is that gemshop offers best rewards, and since you can convert gold to gems, the logical conclusion is to farm gold and convert to gems to get those rewards.

> Gemshop getting best, and in case of for example mountskins or outfits really only rewards, thats why some players focus so much on gold.

>

> But as the post before, thats not what this is about. Im not saying we need more gold rewards. Im saying we need rewards for repeating content, with timegates reduced to only skins and map currency. The reason Im saying this, isnt because I want to grind the *beep* out of something, its because I want to stop feeling shepherded by anet into content I just simply dont care about at that time. And its because currently the timegated reward is blown just way out of proportions. If you adhere to anets schedule for you, you get 30+ gold per hour. If you dont adhere to that schedule, you get a few masterwork items.

> This imbalance is quite frankly offputting. And its not something Ive ever experienced in any other mmo before.

>

> Thats one part, the other part is that activities like running around in a circle opening chests or running around in a circle gathering mussels, are getting way higher rewards than for example doing raids, or worldbosses. Thats another imbalance in the rewardstructure. Rewards in gw2 dont reflect in any way the effort you put into getting them. While it doesnt have to be "more effort equals more reward", gw2 with its "less effort equals more reward" is absolutely horrible. Because less effort in this case really means brainless grinding. The exact thing anet wanted to avoid.

 

You say it can't lead to a burn out... but you also said that you know yourself that plenty of people left due to boredom. Left because there was "too much farming" in GW2. Probably left because they themselves were doing the same things every single day, just as you complained about here. It doesn't matter if it's Silverwastes, Fractals, Raids or even Dungeons. Throw Istan in there if you want.

 

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results... and here we are, talking about the game being a grind and becoming boring because people are constantly doing the same things every day. Or that they feel like they should do the same thing every single day.

 

But let's ignore that because I guess that's what the topic isn't about...

[Rasimir.6239]

> @"Yasi.9065" said:

> > @"Rasimir.6239" said:

> > > @"AlexxxDelta.1806" said:

> > > I agree that people fall into the "trap" of gold farming and get jaded. But why is it happening? Why do all these people feel compelled to farm their eyes out in Istan or SW? To me the answer is obvious. Gold is the only meaningful reward in the game. The majority of new "shinies" are entering the game through the gem store.

> > This game has a lot more meaningful rewards than gold. There is so much you can gain in game that gives you both shinies (skins, minis, titles, ...) and the satisfaction of gaining said shinies that this can keep you busy without either gold farming or gem store purchases for a long time.

> >

> > Figuring out events, scavenger hunts, fractal mechanics and more is playing the game, and it takes time, sometimes more, sometimes less. If you prefer to work through a Dulfy checklist to grab the "shinies" in the least time possible, you are robbing yourself of a huge part of gameplay, enjoyment, exploration,sense of achievement, and "rewarding" rewards.

> >

> > I have to admit I've never gotten why so many players see gold as their primary goal. If you reduce the game to "grind gold, buy gemstore stuff" it's no wonder you find little enjoyment in it. This game is so much more, but if getting gold and shopping for gemstore pixels is all you can think of, then I can see where the game gets stale quickly.

> Im not saying we need more gold rewards. Im saying we need rewards for repeating content, with timegates reduced to only skins and map currency. The reason Im saying this, isnt because I want to grind the *beep* out of something, its because I want to stop feeling shepherded by anet into content I just simply dont care about at that time. And its because currently the timegated reward is blown just way out of proportions. If you adhere to anets schedule for you, you get 30+ gold per hour. If you dont adhere to that schedule, you get a few masterwork items.

> This imbalance is quite frankly offputting. And its not something Ive ever experienced in any other mmo before.

>

> Thats one part, the other part is that activities like running around in a circle opening chests or running around in a circle gathering mussels, are getting way higher rewards than for example doing raids, or worldbosses. Thats another imbalance in the rewardstructure. Rewards in gw2 dont reflect in any way the effort you put into getting them. While it doesnt have to be "more effort equals more reward", gw2 with its "less effort equals more reward" is absolutely horrible. Because less effort in this case really means brainless grinding. The exact thing anet wanted to avoid.

The "effort" you put into this game, be it raids, t4 fractals or whatever, is mostly just time. You want the game to favor those able to schedule their play sessions (both when and how long) at their leisure, to the detriment of those that can't for whatever reason. As you rightly stated, pretty much every other MMO out there does this, and it's one of the main reasons why people like me play this game and not the other MMOs out there.

 

I well remember the time some 30 years ago when I was in university with a lot of time on my hands, a new pc and free internet access through university. I did play a lot of games back then (probably more than was good for me), both offline and online, but to be honest, most of the "skill" and "effort" I put into and developed in those games I was only able to invest because I had the time to spend and the freedom to spend it (mostly) whenever it suited me. Nowadays, nearing 50 with family and fulltime job, my priorities had to shift, and with them the commitments I'm willing and able to take up in game. It's one of the main reasons why I switched to GW2 from my previous MMO (where I was part of an endgame raid guild and a static raid team that took on all endgame raids): This game does NOT make me feel like a second class citizen for not having as much time to spend on it.

 

I do have the "skill" and the equipment to do raids and t4 fractals, and I do them occasionally to help out friends when their static groups need fillers, but I just don't have the time to commit to static groups and their schedules any more. This game is great at allowing me to play at my own pace, choose myself what content to play, and not missing out. Changing the game so that rewards will mostly go to those who have disposable time, something pretty much every other game in the genre already does, will kill one of the strongest points of this game that attracts many players.

[Eloc Freidon.5692]

Having a daily for every bit of different play style would certainly be great to get that 3/3 reward. The only reason I figure they won't is because people would just do the easiest ones. Turning it into an autopilot routine and spend even less time in the game overall.

 

Also because they don't have dedicated devs who go over mechanics over and over again to attain maximum efficiency and fun.

[Yasi.9065]

> @"Genuinetheo.6591" said:

> You say it can't lead to a burn out... but you also said that you know yourself that plenty of people left due to boredom. Left because there was "too much farming" in GW2. Probably left because they themselves were doing the same things every single day, just as you complained about here. It doesn't matter if it's Silverwastes, Fractals, Raids or even Dungeons. Throw Istan in there if you want.

>

> The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results... and here we are, talking about the game being a grind and becoming boring because people are constantly doing the same things every day. Or that they feel like they should do the same thing every single day.

>

> But let's ignore that because I guess that's what the topic isn't about...

 

You are just plain ignoring what I wrote. So a last time, just for you, as plain as possible:

a) the anti-grind measures are themselves a big grind

b) people dont leave because there is nothing to grind, but because there is no repeatable endcontent, and yes, a different rewardstructure could solve this problem somewhat, but is by no means the only thing that has to change to keep this game interesting for veterans - past logging in every 6 months or so for 1-2 weeks of content

c) rewards are all over the place in gw2, with least effort rewarding highest rewards

 

> @"Rasimir.6239" said:

> The "effort" you put into this game, be it raids, t4 fractals or whatever, is mostly just time. You want the game to favor those able to schedule their play sessions (both when and how long) at their leisure, to the detriment of those that can't for whatever reason. As you rightly stated, pretty much every other MMO out there does this, and it's one of the main reasons why people like me play this game and not the other MMOs out there.

 

But if you dont have much time, or only time here and then, the daily timegates are especially bad. Because you cant just do whatever when logging in while working towards something in the game. You need to log in for metas, fill the time in-between as efficiently as possible - usually with gathering or fractals - to get to your goal in a somewhat timely fashion. If you just log in and do whats "fun" for you at that day, you make very little headway.

The reason people with little time play gw2, is because there's very little "must do" goals in the game, which I personally find very good. The rewardstructure however, is not the reason. Everyone saying that just hasnt looked at the data or isnt working towards a long term goal.

 

> @"Rasimir.6239" said:

> I well remember the time some 30 years ago when I was in university with a lot of time on my hands, a new pc and free internet access through university. I did play a lot of games back then (probably more than was good for me), both offline and online, but to be honest, most of the "skill" and "effort" I put into and developed in those games I was only able to invest because I had the time to spend and the freedom to spend it (mostly) whenever it suited me. Nowadays, nearing 50 with family and fulltime job, my priorities had to shift, and with them the commitments I'm willing and able to take up in game. It's one of the main reasons why I switched to GW2 from my previous MMO (where I was part of an endgame raid guild and a static raid team that took on all endgame raids): This game does NOT make me feel like a second class citizen for not having as much time to spend on it.

> I do have the "skill" and the equipment to do raids and t4 fractals, and I do them occasionally to help out friends when their static groups need fillers, but I just don't have the time to commit to static groups and their schedules any more. This game is great at allowing me to play at my own pace, choose myself what content to play, and not missing out. Changing the game so that rewards will mostly go to those who have disposable time, something pretty much every other game in the genre already does, will kill one of the strongest points of this game that attracts many players.

 

Very few western mmos do that anymore tbh. Not even wow requires you really to spend much time on the game anymore when you get to the endcontent, only if you absolutely want to play on the highest level, then you have to put in the time. Ive been trying out pretty much every western mmo out there over the last year, comparing it to gw2, and Im really sorry, but gw2 is only in one regard more casual friendly, you can immediately jump into endcontent. Everything else is just lack of content, especially lack of in-depth content, content you can become invested in. Nothing to do with the rewardstructure. Rather, the non-repeatability of most endcontent gives you that feeling that you arent missing out, since you are "nearly done" already. You know, thats why I laugh at everyone in this thread telling me about what tricks mmos employ to keep players spending money on their game... all of them havent realized yet that anet uses the carrot trick on them quite successfully. Nothing more profitable than gamers that dont tax your servers over much and are willing to buy 2k gem every few months for new mountskin or outfit. And how do you keep those gamers happy? By telling them they are as good as everybody else, and it doesnt matter that they spend only 20 hours on the game over the last few months. But be that as it may, the rewardstructure is NOT part of this. As long as relevant things - map currencies for example - are locked behind a timegate, this business model works.

 

And you already HAVE grind in the game. Silverwastes, fractal 42 or fractal 96, daily meta grind, mussel/rich node/wood gathering. Im NOT proposing to add to those, I just want to give all content that baselevel of rewards. So you dont get punished for wanting to do fractals or open world events more than once a day, raid more than once a week.

You are not going to miss out on anything just because everything in the game gives the same level of rewards. Quite the contrary. Currently you are missing out because you cant spend 3h+ each day in the game farming all profitable daily metas and fractals, with gathering in between.

Its okay for map currencies and skins to be locked behind a timegate. To equalize between players with a ton of time at their hands, and players with less time. Its absolutely not okay, for anet to lock common rewards (mostly materials and some gold) behind timegates and thereby force everyone thats working on a longterm goal - like a legendary - to log in for a daily grind of most profitable timegated events. And its equally not okay that something as inane as running behind a tag to open chests should be way more rewarding than anything more involved - like repeating raids or meta events.

[Genuinetheo.6591]

> @"Yasi.9065" said:

> > @"Genuinetheo.6591" said:

> > You say it can't lead to a burn out... but you also said that you know yourself that plenty of people left due to boredom. Left because there was "too much farming" in GW2. Probably left because they themselves were doing the same things every single day, just as you complained about here. It doesn't matter if it's Silverwastes, Fractals, Raids or even Dungeons. Throw Istan in there if you want.

> >

> > The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results... and here we are, talking about the game being a grind and becoming boring because people are constantly doing the same things every day. Or that they feel like they should do the same thing every single day.

> >

> > But let's ignore that because I guess that's what the topic isn't about...

>

> You are just plain ignoring what I wrote. So a last time, just for you, as plain as possible:

> a) the anti-grind measures are themselves a big grind

> b) people dont leave because there is nothing to grind, but because there is no repeatable endcontent, and yes, a different rewardstructure could solve this problem somewhat, but is by no means the only thing that has to change to keep this game interesting for veterans - past logging in every 6 months or so for 1-2 weeks of content

> c) rewards are all over the place in gw2, with least effort rewarding highest rewards

 

Just to be clear: we went from talking about dailies becoming boring, and burning out on the game doing them, to talking about how you would rather be rewarded, on your terms, for playing other content you might enjoy more.

 

Why not just play the content you enjoy more, so that you're not getting burned out on the game? These two problems are very relatable...