Why kill power chrono?

[flog.3485]

> @"RabbitUp.8294" said:

> > @"flog.3485" said:

> > > @"Unknown.3976" said:

> > > > @"flog.3485" said:

> > > > Just wondering, after reading most of the comments, can't you play a full DPS core mesmer ?

> > >

> > > Core mes has no access to Chronophantasma.

> >

> > Is it really a problem though with low cooldown on sword off-hand and double disenchanter with mimic ?

>

> But chrono has access to the same exact stuff, on top of Continuum Split and Chronophantasma. Continuum Split was effectively 2 Signets of the Ether and 1 Gravity Well pre-nerf, now it's one Signet less, and Chronophantasma doubles the effectiveness on all your phantasm skills.

>

> That been said, base mesmer if I recall correctly benchmarked about 5k lower than chrono before this patch, now the difference should be a lot smaller since the nerf only affects chrono.

 

I see. Thx for the input

[apharma.3741]

> @"zencow.3651" said:

> > @"Quadox.7834" said:

> > > @"Xyonon.3987" said:

> > > Dw, dps Chrono is still fine, just no longer broken. Everyone lost ~2k dps due to Banner nerfs, Chrono recieved a rather small nerf besides that - Signet of the Ether's impact was just overestimated. The current dps is still around 42k opener and 35k final number (raid realistic buffs on golem). It's absolutely fine and dandy.

> >

> > Which makes this change to Danger Time even worse since it impacts WvW and PvP more than the indented target...

>

> Pretty sure it was aimed more at WvW/PvP where the lost time + danger time was too powerful.

 

Too powerful compared to what? A rev hitting for you for 8k precision strike when you have 3.1k armour? Soulbeast auto attacking you for 3k on the same armour value or rapid fire, maul, smoke assault, worldly impact, maul, daze, maul, back to rapidfire rotation where any one of them can hit you for between half and all your health?

 

Is it too powerful compared to facerollosmiths hitting 7k on holo leap and similar across the board?

 

Yeah WvW is imbalanced but if they think danger time + lost time is too strong how's about addressing all the other broken rubbish flying around that's being left because there's too many morons making rant videos about mirage without objectively looking at themselves and the wider context.

 

Edit: Meanwhile every time they nerf mesmer defence power mesmer gets further and further away from being remotely rewarding to play. "yeah but it's still good to one shot from stealth hurr durr" yeah you're a moron if you're getting stealth burst from a solo mesmer in 99% of scenarios.

[zencow.3651]

> @"apharma.3741" said:

> > @"zencow.3651" said:

> > > @"Quadox.7834" said:

> > > > @"Xyonon.3987" said:

> > > > Dw, dps Chrono is still fine, just no longer broken. Everyone lost ~2k dps due to Banner nerfs, Chrono recieved a rather small nerf besides that - Signet of the Ether's impact was just overestimated. The current dps is still around 42k opener and 35k final number (raid realistic buffs on golem). It's absolutely fine and dandy.

> > >

> > > Which makes this change to Danger Time even worse since it impacts WvW and PvP more than the indented target...

> >

> > Pretty sure it was aimed more at WvW/PvP where the lost time + danger time was too powerful.

>

> Too powerful compared to what? A rev hitting for you for 8k precision strike when you have 3.1k armour? Soulbeast auto attacking you for 3k on the same armour value or rapid fire, maul, smoke assault, worldly impact, maul, daze, maul, back to rapidfire rotation where any one of them can hit you for between half and all your health?

>

> Is it too powerful compared to facerollosmiths hitting 7k on holo leap and similar across the board?

>

> Yeah WvW is imbalanced but if they think danger time + lost time is too strong how's about addressing all the other broken rubbish flying around that's being left because there's too many morons making rant videos about mirage without objectively looking at themselves and the wider context.

>

> Edit: Meanwhile every time they nerf mesmer defence power mesmer gets further and further away from being remotely rewarding to play. "yeah but it's still good to one shot from stealth hurr durr" yeah you're a moron if you're getting stealth burst from a solo mesmer in 99% of scenarios.

 

Key difference being Chrono maintains a high uptime of slow which both hinders your DPS and open you up for more interrupts while also doing massive amounts of damage at the same time.

And that 1 Grav Well being enough to down 5 people with 21k+ total damage each if their stab isn't up/they ran out of stun-breaks/enemy zerg firebrands aren't paying enough attention to save their scourges and being able to plop it down twice.

 

I don't see how your mirage rant fits into this discussion? But to me, things are more rewarding to play when you need to play more skilfully.

[spinwizard.7903]

I’ve personally switched back and forth twice between a power Mesmer and a support Mesmer. I have my personal fractal lvl at 94 and have cleared 100. And people constantly change their mind on what they want in a fractal. Some people I can’t understand why they think alaclarity is so much more important than boon up time value. It’s literally five seconds and the first one above your bar as a clock. The original support with tizlak’s/commander’s by default had better boon uptime then the current diviner’s build. The original build seemed like you had 75 to 80 percent uptime and the rest of it was based on food. I’ ve had the current diviner’s build and the boon uptime was really low. Using a full set of firebrand runes and my commanders rings was the only thing I could swap to get a real difference. Because the current build seemed more like a power build than a support role. Maybe it’s rebalanced but I think I’m burned out to change stats again.

 

[apharma.3741]

> @"zencow.3651" said:

> > @"apharma.3741" said:

> > > @"zencow.3651" said:

> > > > @"Quadox.7834" said:

> > > > > @"Xyonon.3987" said:

> > > > > Dw, dps Chrono is still fine, just no longer broken. Everyone lost ~2k dps due to Banner nerfs, Chrono recieved a rather small nerf besides that - Signet of the Ether's impact was just overestimated. The current dps is still around 42k opener and 35k final number (raid realistic buffs on golem). It's absolutely fine and dandy.

> > > >

> > > > Which makes this change to Danger Time even worse since it impacts WvW and PvP more than the indented target...

> > >

> > > Pretty sure it was aimed more at WvW/PvP where the lost time + danger time was too powerful.

> >

> > Too powerful compared to what? A rev hitting for you for 8k precision strike when you have 3.1k armour? Soulbeast auto attacking you for 3k on the same armour value or rapid fire, maul, smoke assault, worldly impact, maul, daze, maul, back to rapidfire rotation where any one of them can hit you for between half and all your health?

> >

> > Is it too powerful compared to facerollosmiths hitting 7k on holo leap and similar across the board?

> >

> > Yeah WvW is imbalanced but if they think danger time + lost time is too strong how's about addressing all the other broken rubbish flying around that's being left because there's too many morons making rant videos about mirage without objectively looking at themselves and the wider context.

> >

> > Edit: Meanwhile every time they nerf mesmer defence power mesmer gets further and further away from being remotely rewarding to play. "yeah but it's still good to one shot from stealth hurr durr" yeah you're a moron if you're getting stealth burst from a solo mesmer in 99% of scenarios.

>

> Key difference being Chrono maintains a high uptime of slow which both hinders your DPS and open you up for more interrupts while also doing massive amounts of damage at the same time.

> And that 1 Grav Well being enough to down 5 people with 21k+ total damage each if their stab isn't up/they ran out of stun-breaks/enemy zerg firebrands aren't paying enough attention to save their scourges and being able to plop it down twice.

>

> I don't see how your mirage rant fits into this discussion? But to me, things are more rewarding to play when you need to play more skilfully.

 

DPS? What is this a test golem? DPS doesn't matter in player vs player combat, what matters is delivering enough damage to kill them, talking about DPS in regard to this kind of environment is as dumb as the people making rant videos and those that use ArcDPS to get their epeen on about having the most DPS despite the guy that did almost half the "DPS" downing more players and being more useful.

 

If slow is the problem you make it out to be that would have been a better target than going after a crit trait or are we not far enough into the thinking process for people to realise that lost time was perhaps an issue?

 

So you're saying 1 Gravity Well is enough to do 21k damage if they have no stab, stunbreak or their brain fart Firebrand has having a snooze? Maybe you should look at how Coalescence of Ruin and phase smash hits for far more per single hit on a shorter cool down on 5 targets and generally there's far fewer ways to deal with it or see it coming in the mess of scourge AoE. Oh and GW is 900 range, good luck doing that at range.

 

Edit: The mirage rant videos fit into the discussion because it's those idiots that are clapping hands like seals to get things nerfed but lack the ability to discern what exactly is the problem and they are biased as hell not wanting their own classes nerfed or realising the game is warping incredibly hard under the bloat of power creep.

 

You want things to be "more rewarding to play when you need to play more skilfully." then start addressing the power creep across all class and don't start saying chrono was a problem because of slow when leaving alone all the other far more broken stuff in WvW. Soulbeast, Holo and rev are several times more busted that chrono, it's not even close.

[zencow.3651]

> @"apharma.3741" said:

> DPS? What is this a test golem? DPS doesn't matter in player vs player combat, what matters is delivering enough damage to kill them

>

> So you're saying 1 Gravity Well is enough to do 21k damage if they have no stab, stunbreak or their brain fart Firebrand has having a snooze? Maybe you should look at how Coalescence of Ruin and phase smash hits for far more per single hit on a shorter cool down on 5 targets and generally there's far fewer ways to deal with it or see it coming in the mess of scourge AoE. Oh and GW is 900 range, good luck doing that at range.

 

Now that's an oxymoron. If you can't deal as much output as much damage as your opponent sustains, you won't be able to kill them. DPS does matter, just not in the optimal skill rotation epeen race way.

 

I disagree with there being fewer ways to deal with hammer rev, you just don't let it free cast and phase smash is very punishable. Not seeing it coming is really a L2P issue as much as spotting a Mesmer from its clones or standing in meteor shower. Squad stealthed by Veil is so much easier to spot right?

 

As for range... by your logic Scourge shades/torch and wells are also 900 range aka the core skills of Scourge spam unlike the staff skills that only tickle, they must totally be unusable.

 

If Power Chrono wasn't overperforming in WvW/PvP with Danger Time (Improved Alacrity is better for PvE), Anet would've been more inclined to leave it as is but they DIDN'T.

[apharma.3741]

> @"zencow.3651" said:

> > @"apharma.3741" said:

> > DPS? What is this a test golem? DPS doesn't matter in player vs player combat, what matters is delivering enough damage to kill them

> >

> > So you're saying 1 Gravity Well is enough to do 21k damage if they have no stab, stunbreak or their brain fart Firebrand has having a snooze? Maybe you should look at how Coalescence of Ruin and phase smash hits for far more per single hit on a shorter cool down on 5 targets and generally there's far fewer ways to deal with it or see it coming in the mess of scourge AoE. Oh and GW is 900 range, good luck doing that at range.

>

> Now that's an oxymoron. If you can't deal as much output as much damage as your opponent sustains, you won't be able to kill them. DPS does matter, just not in the optimal skill rotation kitten race way.

>

> I disagree with there being fewer ways to deal with hammer rev, you just don't let it free cast and phase smash is very punishable. Not seeing it coming is really a L2P issue as much as spotting a Mesmer from its clones or standing in meteor shower. Squad stealthed by Veil is so much easier to spot right?

>

> As for range... by your logic Scourge shades/torch and wells are also 900 range aka the core skills of Scourge spam unlike the staff skills that only tickle, they must totally be unusable.

>

> If Power Chrono wasn't overperforming in WvW/PvP with Danger Time (Improved Alacrity is better for PvE), Anet would've been more inclined to leave it as is but they DIDN'T.

 

It's not an Oxymoron, doing tons of DPS but not actually killing the enemy does not translate to a win, you're either very inexperienced or naive if you think that.

 

By the same vein of thought don't let the mesmer free cast 4Head! My point stands, Rev range is much higher and it delivers all it's damage as a single packet of high damage, remember what I said about DPS not translating to win? The rev might down 5 people in 1 hit but not get another follow up hit while the gravity well might do "more DPS" but actually hit 10-20 different targets not downing anyone as they ran through it. Rev CoR is almost impossible to see in the sea of red circles and has far less counterplay than Meteor and certainly less than Gravity Well, you're deluded if you think otherwise.

 

I never said scourge AoE shades, torches and wells are unusable, try to straw man more please. I was pointing out that at 900 range you're not exactly able to "free cast" or range it at enemies. You know when a GW might be coming because the enemy will be pushing you and it also helpfully has a big cast time in small scale while also having a wide up before it unloads it's big hit of damage.

 

My point was never whether they were overperforming, my point was that there is a lot more worse offenders both in large and small scale fights than the danger time/lost time interaction, they should have been addressed years ago but are being left.

 

[Quadox.7834]

> @"zencow.3651" said:

> > @"apharma.3741" said:

> > DPS? What is this a test golem? DPS doesn't matter in player vs player combat, what matters is delivering enough damage to kill them

> >

> > So you're saying 1 Gravity Well is enough to do 21k damage if they have no stab, stunbreak or their brain fart Firebrand has having a snooze? Maybe you should look at how Coalescence of Ruin and phase smash hits for far more per single hit on a shorter cool down on 5 targets and generally there's far fewer ways to deal with it or see it coming in the mess of scourge AoE. Oh and GW is 900 range, good luck doing that at range.

>

> Now that's an oxymoron. If you can't deal as much output as much damage as your opponent sustains, you won't be able to kill them. DPS does matter, just not in the optimal skill rotation kitten race way.

>

> I disagree with there being fewer ways to deal with hammer rev, you just don't let it free cast and phase smash is very punishable. Not seeing it coming is really a L2P issue as much as spotting a Mesmer from its clones or standing in meteor shower. Squad stealthed by Veil is so much easier to spot right?

>

> As for range... by your logic Scourge shades/torch and wells are also 900 range aka the core skills of Scourge spam unlike the staff skills that only tickle, they must totally be unusable.

>

> If Power Chrono wasn't overperforming in WvW/PvP with Danger Time (Improved Alacrity is better for PvE), Anet would've been more inclined to leave it as is but they DIDN'T.

 

What do you even mean by that last paragraph, people are running either condi Mirage, power Mirage, or bunker Chrono in PvP, certainly not power Chrono above plat2 at least. They nerfed it because of PvE.

 

EDIT: If Anet actually looked at what is overperforming in PvP when balancing, they wouldn't have split the Moa buff from PvP, but they don't or at least not enough.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

Personally I hated this interaction. No class should be built upon the foundation of "You have a quarter of a second to hit this one skill, or else your DPS is ruined forever." DPS Chrono was being carried by an exploit, and I'd rather have it removed and then see power mesmers get buffed than live by the exploit.