Kittens Broke 2: Blind

[bethekey.8314]

The latest installment in my series of Guild Wars 2 bugs that make you want to stop playing PVP:

 

 

It appears that blinds applied at the same time a skill is being cast are doing much more than they should. Watch as 1 blind causes 6+ hits to miss.

[ReaverKane.7598]

Blind works on a timer not number of skills... Seems to be working fine to me... You cast stuff while blinded, you'll miss...

[bethekey.8314]

> @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> Blind works on a timer not number of skills... Seems to be working fine to me... You cast stuff while blinded, you'll miss...

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blinded

 

> Next outgoing attack misses; stacks duration.

 

> — In-game description

 

> Blinded gives a character's next attack a 100% chance to miss. Blindness is removed after the condition's time runs out, or after an outgoing attack that would have been successful if not for the blind.

 

Which one of you is correct? What timer?

[ReaverKane.7598]

Humm, i guess you're right... I always felt it was timer based, never really noticed it going after just one attack.

 

[BlackTruth.6813]

Yeah that needs a fix, blinds are already annoying as is ever since it got buffed in around 2013. Really stupid.

[JayAction.9056]

It’s been functioning like this despite the tool tip for years.

 

Never cared to actually get recorded footage of anything happening, but nice point out

[XenoSpyro.1780]

And the opposite is true when you use it on someone else, especially if pulsing. It never seems to work.

 

Great game.

[zencow.3651]

"Next outgoing attack misses; stacks duration. " - Blind Description

 

Blind causes multi-hits and AoEs to all miss if packets of damage all happen simultaneously since it counts such skills as 'one attack' unlike multi-hit skills where packets of damage are staggered where the blind only occurs on one of the packets.

 

The extra blind from the ele looks like it came from an Elemental Surge proc which causes the Overcharged Shot to miss.

[Zenix.6198]

Okay....while I have to admit that I had to watch the first fight (against the FA) a couple of times, even slowed it down, I think I understand what happened here.

First of all....we have to assume that this is NOT a blind bug.

I think that Grenade barrage is actually NOT classified as a multi-hit attack and thus the entire attack gets blinded, rather than each grenade individually.

 

For your Video:

 

Lets start with the second clip (against the rev):

Even tho, yes you got blinded, your nade-barrage actually was evaded by the Rev's unrelenting assault skill (sw#3) rather than blinded. Since he evaded them with actual I-frames, the blind persistet even after the skill missed.

 

The first clip (against the ele):

This one is a bit tricky, since I can only speculate as to what happened here.

So, first of all, that ele was running scepter and the "elemental surge" trait (Arcane GM). That means, that his arcane blast skill (which he had, as you can see in the video) blinds when attuned to air. So basically, right after your barrage missed, he sneaked a second blind onto you with arcane blast (the projectile is very easy to miss), which made you also miss your overcharged shot.

 

Edit: Didnt read @"zencow.3651" post.....basically what he said.

 

[schloumou.3982]

Watch the blind icon closely. It decays gradually. Its the same blind.

[Arcaedus.7290]

> @"Zenix.6198" said:

> Okay....while I have to admit that I had to watch the first fight (against the FA) a couple of times, even slowed it down, I think I understand what happened here.

> First of all....we have to assume that this is NOT a blind bug.

> I think that Grenade barrage is actually NOT classified as a multi-hit attack and thus the entire attack gets blinded, rather than each grenade individually.

>

> For your Video:

>

> Lets start with the second clip (against the rev):

> Even tho, yes you got blinded, your nade-barrage actually was evaded by the Rev's unrelenting assault skill (sw#3) rather than blinded. Since he evaded them with actual I-frames, the blind persistet even after the skill missed.

>

> The first clip (against the ele):

> This one is a bit tricky, since I can only speculate as to what happened here.

> So, first of all, that ele was running scepter and the "elemental surge" trait (Arcane GM). That means, that his arcane blast skill (which he had, as you can see in the video) blinds when attuned to air. So basically, right after your barrage missed, he sneaked a second blind onto you with arcane blast (the projectile is very easy to miss), which made you also miss your overcharged shot.

>

> Edit: Didnt read @"zencow.3651" post.....basically what he said.

>

 

I think you're right about grenade barrage not being classified as a multi-hit attack which is very strange considering the nature of it just having multiple projectiles thrown at different spots (on or around the area you originally target). I know for a fact that if you perform an attack that does many serial strikes all close together in a row (like GS 2 on guardian or sword 4 on rev), blind totally gets removed by the first strike and all the following will land.

 

I also think you're right about this not being a bug, HOWEVER, I do believe it's an unintended interaction and that what needs to be fixed is grenade barrage rather than blind. Blind is fine and not broken.

 

So vs. the rev, the grenades aren't evaded by rev's sword 3, otherwise you'd see "Evade" rather than "Miss." It's definitely the same bug as in the first case with the FA ele.

 

vs. the ele, that's a good way to rationalize what happened and it's totally possible that if the second blind is applied frame perfectly and has the same duration as the remainder of the duration of the first blind, that even though it is initially consumed by grenade barrage, you would see absolutely no flickering or change on the condition bar as the first blind is consumed and the second is simultaneously applied.

 

I think the conclusion here is that grenade barrage should be looked at. I have never heard of anyone complaining about blind being an issue on any other multi-hit attack.

[schloumou.3982]

In that case it would be a new applied condition and the icon would hightlight, wouldnt it?

[Zenix.6198]

> @"Arcaedus.7290" said:

> > @"Zenix.6198" said:

> > Okay....while I have to admit that I had to watch the first fight (against the FA) a couple of times, even slowed it down, I think I understand what happened here.

> > First of all....we have to assume that this is NOT a blind bug.

> > I think that Grenade barrage is actually NOT classified as a multi-hit attack and thus the entire attack gets blinded, rather than each grenade individually.

> >

> > For your Video:

> >

> > Lets start with the second clip (against the rev):

> > Even tho, yes you got blinded, your nade-barrage actually was evaded by the Rev's unrelenting assault skill (sw#3) rather than blinded. Since he evaded them with actual I-frames, the blind persistet even after the skill missed.

> >

> > The first clip (against the ele):

> > This one is a bit tricky, since I can only speculate as to what happened here.

> > So, first of all, that ele was running scepter and the "elemental surge" trait (Arcane GM). That means, that his arcane blast skill (which he had, as you can see in the video) blinds when attuned to air. So basically, right after your barrage missed, he sneaked a second blind onto you with arcane blast (the projectile is very easy to miss), which made you also miss your overcharged shot.

> >

> > Edit: Didnt read @"zencow.3651" post.....basically what he said.

> >

>

> I think you're right about grenade barrage not being classified as a multi-hit attack which is very strange considering the nature of it just having multiple projectiles thrown at different spots (on or around the area you originally target). I know for a fact that if you perform an attack that does many serial strikes all close together in a row (like GS 2 on guardian or sword 4 on rev), blind totally gets removed by the first strike and all the following will land.

>

> I also think you're right about this not being a bug, HOWEVER, I do believe it's an unintended interaction and that what needs to be fixed is grenade barrage rather than blind. Blind is fine and not broken.

>

> So vs. the rev, the grenades aren't evaded by rev's sword 3, otherwise you'd see "Evade" rather than "Miss." It's definitely the same bug as in the first case with the FA ele.

>

Maybe thats just some UI issue.

Would be intersting to test this ingame.

 

Cause afaik (and as stated on the wiki) blinds ONLY get removed if the attack would successfully hit. Meaning, that while blinded you cant get rid of the debuff on enemies that would avoid that hit otherwise. But since you are technically still blinded, I could imagine this being a display error where "miss"-messages take priortiy over "evade"-messages.

 

[jalmari.3906]

> @"BlackTruth.6813" said:

> Yeah that needs a fix, blinds are already annoying as is ever since it got buffed in around 2013. Really stupid.

 

Blind used to put your screen black so you could not actually see anything. Blind has been nerfed since.

 

Not taken a look at the vid but for you all newbies who don't know this burst skill misses all hits if you cast it while blind, deal with it. It does same with interrupts or whatsoever. It's intended and works fine. And what this other guy say you actually need to be able to hit something so it would be removed and then there's pulsing blinds etc which reapply.

 

 

[bethekey.8314]

Additional evidence for the issue that might clear things up:

 

 

> @"zencow.3651" said:

> "Next outgoing attack misses; stacks duration. " - Blind Description

>

> Blind causes multi-hits and AoEs to all miss if packets of damage all happen simultaneously since it counts such skills as 'one attack' unlike multi-hit skills where packets of damage are staggered where the blind only occurs on one of the packets.

>

> The extra blind from the ele looks like it came from an Elemental Surge proc which causes the Overcharged Shot to miss

 

I think you might be right about hits occurring simultaneously, but I feel like punishing players for stacking hits is poor design. Grenade barrage IS a multi-hit skill that can hit at different times, as evidenced by the first part of this video. I don't believe there was an extra blind. See the second part of this new video.

 

> @"Zenix.6198" said:

> Okay....while I have to admit that I had to watch the first fight (against the FA) a couple of times, even slowed it down, I think I understand what happened here.

> First of all....we have to assume that this is NOT a blind bug.

> I think that Grenade barrage is actually NOT classified as a multi-hit attack and thus the entire attack gets blinded, rather than each grenade individually.

>

> For your Video:

>

> Lets start with the second clip (against the rev):

> Even tho, yes you got blinded, your nade-barrage actually was evaded by the Rev's unrelenting assault skill (sw#3) rather than blinded. Since he evaded them with actual I-frames, the blind persistet even after the skill missed.

>

> The first clip (against the ele):

> This one is a bit tricky, since I can only speculate as to what happened here.

> So, first of all, that ele was running scepter and the "elemental surge" trait (Arcane GM). That means, that his arcane blast skill (which he had, as you can see in the video) blinds when attuned to air. So basically, right after your barrage missed, he sneaked a second blind onto you with arcane blast (the projectile is very easy to miss), which made you also miss your overcharged shot.

>

> Edit: Didnt read @"zencow.3651" post.....basically what he said.

>

 

Yes, grenade barrage is multi-hit. See the new video. No, I don't believe the grenade barrage wasn't evaded by the Rev. And no, there was no second blind from the ele before overcharged shot missed.

 

> @"Arcaedus.7290" said:

> I also think you're right about this not being a bug, HOWEVER, I do believe it's an unintended interaction and that what needs to be fixed is grenade barrage rather than blind. Blind is fine and not broken.

 

> I think the conclusion here is that grenade barrage should be looked at. I have never heard of anyone complaining about blind being an issue on any other multi-hit attack.

 

Do you still think there isn't a bug after watching the new video? First, grenade barrage IS multi-hit and second, even if it is counted as 1 attack, it doesn't clear blind. I highly doubt this interaction with blind is isolated to grenade barrage.

 

> @"jalmari.3906" said:

> > @"BlackTruth.6813" said:

> > Yeah that needs a fix, blinds are already annoying as is ever since it got buffed in around 2013. Really stupid.

>

> Blind used to put your screen black so you could not actually see anything. Blind has been nerfed since.

>

> Not taken a look at the vid but for you all newbies who don't know this burst skill misses all hits if you cast it while blind, deal with it. It does same with interrupts or whatsoever. It's intended and works fine. And what this other guy say you actually need to be able to hit something so it would be removed and then there's pulsing blinds etc which reapply.

 

Why would you comment without looking at the video? And you're objectively wrong based on the first part of this new video. Lol @ calling others newbies.

 

[BlackTruth.6813]

LOL deal with it he says on "grenade barrage" something that is supposed to go through blinds. This is why we can't have good things, people thinking blinds are well designed in a sense that it should not go by a "per hit" basis. Yawn

[Zenix.6198]

> @"bethekey.8314" said:

 

> Yes, grenade barrage is multi-hit. See the new video. No, I don't believe the grenade barrage wasn't evaded by the Rev. And no, there was no second blind from the ele before overcharged shot missed.

>

 

I just tested this with a friend of mine several times.

And you actually are correct....grenade barrage and blind do in fact interact very inconsistently.

 

Sometimes it doesnt clear the blind at all...even while standing perfectly still and getting hit by multiple grenades.

Then I thought mabye I'd blind and block afterwards (was on LB warrior).

And sometimes it cleared the blind, sometimes it didnt.

It does actually interact very strangely.

Feel free to test it yourself.

 

 

[Chilli.2976]

I was thinking the condition blind should have 50% chance to miss your attack as opposed to 100% - just because your are blind don't mean you can't hit ;).

[Sampson.2403]

I've always wondered about this, now is a good time to ask:

 

If a skill has multiple hits to it, like shackling wave, will blind make the entire skill miss or just the first hit of that skill miss?

 

Bonus, semi, but not really related, curiosity question: If I cast phase traversal and follow up with shackling wave on a warrior whose channeling their shied block, will all 6 hits of the shackling wave hit or just the first 2?

[BlackTruth.6813]

In order to counter blind, you HAD to use a multi-hit skill back in the day. This bug is lethal, grenades are already hard as is because you have to skill shot grenades, why are some people actually defending this bug?

[rng.1024]

Seems like the skills in question work twofold, by starting out as 1 packet then splitting into several.

 

If that initial packet consumes the blind all subsequent hits will fail. Although if the first packet is dealt before the blind, then it's random which of the second packets consumes the condition.

 

We already know blind gets consumed "after an outgoing attack that would have been successful if not for the blind" - most likely it's treated like 1 skill with multiple follow up simultaneous packets, so another skill worth testing with are other "shotgun" skills, like an ele's dragon claw, ranger's Splitblade or Renegade's Sevenshot - they should all miss if the initial button press is blinded as the packets are created simultaneously.

[idolin.2831]

> @"Sampson.2403" said:

> I've always wondered about this, now is a good time to ask:

>

> If a skill has multiple hits to it, like shackling wave, will blind make the entire skill miss or just the first hit of that skill miss?

>

> Bonus, semi, but not really related, curiosity question: If I cast phase traversal and follow up with shackling wave on a warrior whose channeling their shied block, will all 6 hits of the shackling wave hit or just the first 2?

 

1. I'm not in game right now, but from what I remember, only the first hit will miss - I can test it the next time I try to kill a veteran scout in WvW.

 

2. Just the first 2 I believe.

 

As for the OP's question, it seems like there's a bug but not what you thought - the Ele applied a blind the second time, you can see it at 0.25 speed. As for the rev, grenades seem to have been evaded by rev's sword 3 (Unrelenting Assault), but the indicators came up as "Miss" which were wrong. I think that's why you were still blinded after the grenade barrage.

[bethekey.8314]

> @"idiotin.2831" said:

> > @"Sampson.2403" said:

> > I've always wondered about this, now is a good time to ask:

> >

> > If a skill has multiple hits to it, like shackling wave, will blind make the entire skill miss or just the first hit of that skill miss?

> >

> > Bonus, semi, but not really related, curiosity question: If I cast phase traversal and follow up with shackling wave on a warrior whose channeling their shied block, will all 6 hits of the shackling wave hit or just the first 2?

>

> 1. I'm not in game right now, but from what I remember, only the first hit will miss - I can test it the next time I try to kill a veteran scout in WvW.

>

> 2. Just the first 2 I believe.

>

> As for the OP's question, it seems like there's a bug but not what you thought - the Ele applied a blind the second time, you can see it at 0.25 speed. As for the rev, grenades seem to have been evaded by rev's sword 3 (Unrelenting Assault), but the indicators came up as "Miss" which were wrong. I think that's why you were still blinded after the grenade barrage.

 

Post the screenshot of the second blind occurring before Overcharged Shot missed. If you need help, you can go frame by frame in Youtube with the , or . keys.

 

It would have said "Evaded" if it was evaded. You're claiming one bug for another for some odd reason.

 

Did you even watch the second video I posted in this thread? It makes it clear there is a bug without any ambiguity of "second blinds" or "evade bug". I'm starting to think the all the extra blinds have migrated to the Gw2 forums.