What path should GW2 follow?

[otto.5684]

It is hard to tell. I do not know what is GW2 financial position, and that is what drives this conversation. I can only speak of what I want to see more of:

 

1) Much better map/quest design. Everything since end of LWS3 was a step down.

 

2) Better diversity and better attention to class balance.

 

3) Impovents in graphics.

 

4) Expansions. I liked the 2 year cycle expansion. I do not see myself playing the game few month from now without enough new contents. LW content (particularly LWS4) is not going to keep me active for 18 more month. And if within that time I move on, there is no going back.

[FrigginPaco.4178]

> @"Trise.2865" said:

> > @"FrigginPaco.4178" said:

> > **Disclaimer: I don't criticize because I want to kitten all over the game, but because I see great potential in it and hope to one day realize/experience that potential firsthand.

> >

> > > @"Trise.2865" said:

> > > But volume is meaningless without density. Other games feel more "full" because they're full of filler: mindless busywork, needlessly difficult-to-reach objective-starters and turn-ins, time-wasting traversal through empty space, criminal levels of copypasta...

> >

> > Generally speaking I would agree. However, I _do_ perceive a lower density of playable content since PoF if I'm being quite honest. Realistically, it's possible that some of the content that was added simply doesn't appeal to me regardless of whatever game that content shows up. Additionally, I don't actually know how many of the PoF achievements I've done, but I know I've cleared 2 of the maps from PoF, as well as the majority of the story achievements from that expansion and, being honest, some things I just don't enjoy going doing or existing in the game. Adventures fell flat to me, the mastery system is a cool [but shortsighted] idea that requires just a little bit of time and is generally region specific (excluding the player-only movement/mount masteries), collections are just an interface away from being something resembling quests without a minuscule amount of writing to get you from point A to B...

> >

> > I just get tired of waiting. Tired of waiting 2 months between living world patches, or however long for balance, or the knowledge that vanilla zones will arguable see little in the ways of improvement...

> >

> > >...they make you think like the fun you are having is more fun than it is by making you wait for it. Not work for it, wait for it.

> >

> > I'm sorry to say that this is equally present in GW2, but the delivery is different to what people may be used to seeing.

> >

> > Ascended crafting? Time gated.

> > Certain gathering nodes? Time gated.

> > Certain collections? Druid backpiece, Time gated.

> > **Weekly caps on magnetite shards/other raid rewards? Time/skill gated

> > **WvW and PvP (seasonal) pip/rewards? Time/skill gated. (a bit different, but still resets on the week for those of you who don't play those game modes)

> >

> > The only thing that keeps this from being quite so egregious is the fact that max gear is fairly easy to obtain in GW2, to your previous point where the gear treadmill in other games is artificial and low-hanging fruit content generation. I super agree with that, as I mentioned in another post. But maaaaaaan…. If you don't have to upgrade your armor, and you're like me, with several armor/weapon sets per character... I have 16 serviceable characters, most w/ascended and multiple builds for different game modes... There's really not much else at the top until the patch a new episode. I need **more**. **We** need more.

>

> "Equal?" Hardly!

> When have you ever been denied play because you didn't have the right backpack skin? or the "right" ascended gear? or enough AP? Have you been kicked out of WvW or PvP because you didn't have the right tier level? or because you didn't have the last level reward?

>

> Or are you saying that you, the global "not me" you, don't enjoy playing WvW or PvP? or gathering mats? or playing Fractals? or running around Tyria, slaying monsters? You're saying there is no fun at all in the experience, inside the game? and the only fun you're having is getting a prize at the end? ...because that's pretty sad.

 

Are you certain we're talking about the same thing? My "equally present" comment was referring to having to wait to get certain goals finished when you might already have the materials/other items necessary to do them at the time. Not talking about being shut out of some game type for not having enough X, Y, or Z. If anything, my most memorable time where that _did_ happen was doing dungeons at launch back when they were still a thing. And no, I'm not just trying to rush through to get the "prize" at the end. That's part of the reason I play PvP/WvW more often now than when the game launched. Progress there is mostly due to how well I can do things myself. Which in those modes in particular is only above average, not super skilled, if I'm being honest about my own abilities.

 

What I _am_ saying is that it's less rewarding each time you achieve it. I'll take ascended gear for example. _Especially_ in the cases where you might play like I do, across multiple game types frequently (PvP, WvW, Raids, less so on fractals), it's dead simple to get a full set of ascended gear. Maybe I farm Season 3 maps for a week or so for the trinkets, but then it's back to the jam. It takes Anet a good while to get new content patches out, and a good while longer between the bigger releases like expansions, and I'm just worried about what it will look like in the near future.

 

Looking at it a different way: If I were a new player, there's a huge chunk of content to get through that blows launch GW2 out of the water, that's clear. But as someone who's been here since the betas I find I get through most content with relative ease. I make my own goals as well, but they don't seem as impactful.

[Neural.1824]

> @"Omernon.9762" said:

 

> Every game you’ve mention is dimishing in population,

 

*snort*. yeah, mostly because they are older games that are trying to stay alive by implementing the same lack-of-depth "spare time" game mechanics.

Beyond that, yeah, whatever you say. It's pretty clear your view of games is 180deg off from mine.

 

 

[robertthebard.8150]

> @"FrigginPaco.4178" said:

> > @"Trise.2865" said:

> > > @"FrigginPaco.4178" said:

> > > **Disclaimer: I don't criticize because I want to kitten all over the game, but because I see great potential in it and hope to one day realize/experience that potential firsthand.

> > >

> > > > @"Trise.2865" said:

> > > > But volume is meaningless without density. Other games feel more "full" because they're full of filler: mindless busywork, needlessly difficult-to-reach objective-starters and turn-ins, time-wasting traversal through empty space, criminal levels of copypasta...

> > >

> > > Generally speaking I would agree. However, I _do_ perceive a lower density of playable content since PoF if I'm being quite honest. Realistically, it's possible that some of the content that was added simply doesn't appeal to me regardless of whatever game that content shows up. Additionally, I don't actually know how many of the PoF achievements I've done, but I know I've cleared 2 of the maps from PoF, as well as the majority of the story achievements from that expansion and, being honest, some things I just don't enjoy going doing or existing in the game. Adventures fell flat to me, the mastery system is a cool [but shortsighted] idea that requires just a little bit of time and is generally region specific (excluding the player-only movement/mount masteries), collections are just an interface away from being something resembling quests without a minuscule amount of writing to get you from point A to B...

> > >

> > > I just get tired of waiting. Tired of waiting 2 months between living world patches, or however long for balance, or the knowledge that vanilla zones will arguable see little in the ways of improvement...

> > >

> > > >...they make you think like the fun you are having is more fun than it is by making you wait for it. Not work for it, wait for it.

> > >

> > > I'm sorry to say that this is equally present in GW2, but the delivery is different to what people may be used to seeing.

> > >

> > > Ascended crafting? Time gated.

> > > Certain gathering nodes? Time gated.

> > > Certain collections? Druid backpiece, Time gated.

> > > **Weekly caps on magnetite shards/other raid rewards? Time/skill gated

> > > **WvW and PvP (seasonal) pip/rewards? Time/skill gated. (a bit different, but still resets on the week for those of you who don't play those game modes)

> > >

> > > The only thing that keeps this from being quite so egregious is the fact that max gear is fairly easy to obtain in GW2, to your previous point where the gear treadmill in other games is artificial and low-hanging fruit content generation. I super agree with that, as I mentioned in another post. But maaaaaaan…. If you don't have to upgrade your armor, and you're like me, with several armor/weapon sets per character... I have 16 serviceable characters, most w/ascended and multiple builds for different game modes... There's really not much else at the top until the patch a new episode. I need **more**. **We** need more.

> >

> > "Equal?" Hardly!

> > When have you ever been denied play because you didn't have the right backpack skin? or the "right" ascended gear? or enough AP? Have you been kicked out of WvW or PvP because you didn't have the right tier level? or because you didn't have the last level reward?

> >

> > Or are you saying that you, the global "not me" you, don't enjoy playing WvW or PvP? or gathering mats? or playing Fractals? or running around Tyria, slaying monsters? You're saying there is no fun at all in the experience, inside the game? and the only fun you're having is getting a prize at the end? ...because that's pretty sad.

>

> Are you certain we're talking about the same thing? My "equally present" comment was referring to having to wait to get certain goals finished when you might already have the materials/other items necessary to do them at the time. Not talking about being shut out of some game type for not having enough X, Y, or Z. If anything, my most memorable time where that _did_ happen was doing dungeons at launch back when they were still a thing. And no, I'm not just trying to rush through to get the "prize" at the end. That's part of the reason I play PvP/WvW more often now than when the game launched. Progress there is mostly due to how well I can do things myself. Which in those modes in particular is only above average, not super skilled, if I'm being honest about my own abilities.

>

> What I _am_ saying is that it's less rewarding each time you achieve it. I'll take ascended gear for example. _Especially_ in the cases where you might play like I do, across multiple game types frequently (PvP, WvW, Raids, less so on fractals), it's dead simple to get a full set of ascended gear. Maybe I farm Season 3 maps for a week or so for the trinkets, but then it's back to the jam. It takes Anet a good while to get new content patches out, and a good while longer between the bigger releases like expansions, and I'm just worried about what it will look like in the near future.

>

> Looking at it a different way: If I were a new player, there's a huge chunk of content to get through that blows launch GW2 out of the water, that's clear. But as someone who's been here since the betas I find I get through most content with relative ease. I make my own goals as well, but they don't seem as impactful.

 

...and if I'd been here since beta, I'm sure I'd have the same "problem". However, as a new(ish) player, I'm not finding that I do. So while your "issue" may apply to vets, most new players likely aren't running into it.

[FrigginPaco.4178]

> @"robertthebard.8150" said:

> > @"FrigginPaco.4178" said:

> > > @"Trise.2865" said:

> > > > @"FrigginPaco.4178" said:

> > > > **Disclaimer: I don't criticize because I want to kitten all over the game, but because I see great potential in it and hope to one day realize/experience that potential firsthand.

> > > >

> > > > > @"Trise.2865" said:

> > > > > But volume is meaningless without density. Other games feel more "full" because they're full of filler: mindless busywork, needlessly difficult-to-reach objective-starters and turn-ins, time-wasting traversal through empty space, criminal levels of copypasta...

> > > >

> > > > Generally speaking I would agree. However, I _do_ perceive a lower density of playable content since PoF if I'm being quite honest. Realistically, it's possible that some of the content that was added simply doesn't appeal to me regardless of whatever game that content shows up. Additionally, I don't actually know how many of the PoF achievements I've done, but I know I've cleared 2 of the maps from PoF, as well as the majority of the story achievements from that expansion and, being honest, some things I just don't enjoy going doing or existing in the game. Adventures fell flat to me, the mastery system is a cool [but shortsighted] idea that requires just a little bit of time and is generally region specific (excluding the player-only movement/mount masteries), collections are just an interface away from being something resembling quests without a minuscule amount of writing to get you from point A to B...

> > > >

> > > > I just get tired of waiting. Tired of waiting 2 months between living world patches, or however long for balance, or the knowledge that vanilla zones will arguable see little in the ways of improvement...

> > > >

> > > > >...they make you think like the fun you are having is more fun than it is by making you wait for it. Not work for it, wait for it.

> > > >

> > > > I'm sorry to say that this is equally present in GW2, but the delivery is different to what people may be used to seeing.

> > > >

> > > > Ascended crafting? Time gated.

> > > > Certain gathering nodes? Time gated.

> > > > Certain collections? Druid backpiece, Time gated.

> > > > **Weekly caps on magnetite shards/other raid rewards? Time/skill gated

> > > > **WvW and PvP (seasonal) pip/rewards? Time/skill gated. (a bit different, but still resets on the week for those of you who don't play those game modes)

> > > >

> > > > The only thing that keeps this from being quite so egregious is the fact that max gear is fairly easy to obtain in GW2, to your previous point where the gear treadmill in other games is artificial and low-hanging fruit content generation. I super agree with that, as I mentioned in another post. But maaaaaaan…. If you don't have to upgrade your armor, and you're like me, with several armor/weapon sets per character... I have 16 serviceable characters, most w/ascended and multiple builds for different game modes... There's really not much else at the top until the patch a new episode. I need **more**. **We** need more.

> > >

> > > "Equal?" Hardly!

> > > When have you ever been denied play because you didn't have the right backpack skin? or the "right" ascended gear? or enough AP? Have you been kicked out of WvW or PvP because you didn't have the right tier level? or because you didn't have the last level reward?

> > >

> > > Or are you saying that you, the global "not me" you, don't enjoy playing WvW or PvP? or gathering mats? or playing Fractals? or running around Tyria, slaying monsters? You're saying there is no fun at all in the experience, inside the game? and the only fun you're having is getting a prize at the end? ...because that's pretty sad.

> >

> > Are you certain we're talking about the same thing? My "equally present" comment was referring to having to wait to get certain goals finished when you might already have the materials/other items necessary to do them at the time. Not talking about being shut out of some game type for not having enough X, Y, or Z. If anything, my most memorable time where that _did_ happen was doing dungeons at launch back when they were still a thing. And no, I'm not just trying to rush through to get the "prize" at the end. That's part of the reason I play PvP/WvW more often now than when the game launched. Progress there is mostly due to how well I can do things myself. Which in those modes in particular is only above average, not super skilled, if I'm being honest about my own abilities.

> >

> > What I _am_ saying is that it's less rewarding each time you achieve it. I'll take ascended gear for example. _Especially_ in the cases where you might play like I do, across multiple game types frequently (PvP, WvW, Raids, less so on fractals), it's dead simple to get a full set of ascended gear. Maybe I farm Season 3 maps for a week or so for the trinkets, but then it's back to the jam. It takes Anet a good while to get new content patches out, and a good while longer between the bigger releases like expansions, and I'm just worried about what it will look like in the near future.

> >

> > Looking at it a different way: If I were a new player, there's a huge chunk of content to get through that blows launch GW2 out of the water, that's clear. But as someone who's been here since the betas I find I get through most content with relative ease. I make my own goals as well, but they don't seem as impactful.

>

> ...and if I'd been here since beta, I'm sure I'd have the same "problem". However, as a new(ish) player, I'm not finding that I do. So while your "issue" may apply to vets, most new players likely aren't running into it.

 

Yes, and that leads to my next question: How is the game doing for new players? How is it able to _keep_ new players? Since I've been a level 80 I haven't really had the new player experience in a long while; until my friend started playing that is. While I was playing with him I noticed that the game doesn't really have the best teaching system about what you should expect. Yes, it does go through the map mechanics somewhat, but my friend still found that he was asking me more than the game was showing him. I don't particularly mind helping him out, or any new player for that matter, but that issue with having the game explain itself easily is a big question I have for new player retention. I don't know, maybe I'm more critical of it because I'm very invested.

 

I do realize it may be coming across as general impatience, but I'll admit to spending way less time on PoF related material when compared to HoT related material. Maybe it's the lack of metas, maybe bounties weren't targeted towards players w/similar interests (which is true for me), and so forth. I just want to stress that new players will eventually get to the same place everyone else is at, both narratively and in a goal/achievement/gear sense. I'm simply worried at what I perceive to be content that's either not very "dense" or deep enough for it to hold people over until the next content drops, whenever that is for whoever plays it.

[FrigginPaco.4178]

> @"Battledoll.1803" said:

> Advertisement on all social platform, if Anet hasn't already done that. Emphasize:

> 1) NOT pay-to-win aspect (almost all other MMOs are pay-to-win).

> 2) No subscription.

> 3) New content are being updated regularly and is FREE.

> Please advertise MORE.

 

Also something funny: I already own the game and it's respective expansions but I'm getting more GW2 ads now than I ever did before. I just find it so strange because I'm not gonna go out and buy a 2nd account so I don't know why I'm targeted with those ads xD

[robertthebard.8150]

> @"FrigginPaco.4178" said:

> > @"robertthebard.8150" said:

> > > @"FrigginPaco.4178" said:

> > > > @"Trise.2865" said:

> > > > > @"FrigginPaco.4178" said:

> > > > > **Disclaimer: I don't criticize because I want to kitten all over the game, but because I see great potential in it and hope to one day realize/experience that potential firsthand.

> > > > >

> > > > > > @"Trise.2865" said:

> > > > > > But volume is meaningless without density. Other games feel more "full" because they're full of filler: mindless busywork, needlessly difficult-to-reach objective-starters and turn-ins, time-wasting traversal through empty space, criminal levels of copypasta...

> > > > >

> > > > > Generally speaking I would agree. However, I _do_ perceive a lower density of playable content since PoF if I'm being quite honest. Realistically, it's possible that some of the content that was added simply doesn't appeal to me regardless of whatever game that content shows up. Additionally, I don't actually know how many of the PoF achievements I've done, but I know I've cleared 2 of the maps from PoF, as well as the majority of the story achievements from that expansion and, being honest, some things I just don't enjoy going doing or existing in the game. Adventures fell flat to me, the mastery system is a cool [but shortsighted] idea that requires just a little bit of time and is generally region specific (excluding the player-only movement/mount masteries), collections are just an interface away from being something resembling quests without a minuscule amount of writing to get you from point A to B...

> > > > >

> > > > > I just get tired of waiting. Tired of waiting 2 months between living world patches, or however long for balance, or the knowledge that vanilla zones will arguable see little in the ways of improvement...

> > > > >

> > > > > >...they make you think like the fun you are having is more fun than it is by making you wait for it. Not work for it, wait for it.

> > > > >

> > > > > I'm sorry to say that this is equally present in GW2, but the delivery is different to what people may be used to seeing.

> > > > >

> > > > > Ascended crafting? Time gated.

> > > > > Certain gathering nodes? Time gated.

> > > > > Certain collections? Druid backpiece, Time gated.

> > > > > **Weekly caps on magnetite shards/other raid rewards? Time/skill gated

> > > > > **WvW and PvP (seasonal) pip/rewards? Time/skill gated. (a bit different, but still resets on the week for those of you who don't play those game modes)

> > > > >

> > > > > The only thing that keeps this from being quite so egregious is the fact that max gear is fairly easy to obtain in GW2, to your previous point where the gear treadmill in other games is artificial and low-hanging fruit content generation. I super agree with that, as I mentioned in another post. But maaaaaaan…. If you don't have to upgrade your armor, and you're like me, with several armor/weapon sets per character... I have 16 serviceable characters, most w/ascended and multiple builds for different game modes... There's really not much else at the top until the patch a new episode. I need **more**. **We** need more.

> > > >

> > > > "Equal?" Hardly!

> > > > When have you ever been denied play because you didn't have the right backpack skin? or the "right" ascended gear? or enough AP? Have you been kicked out of WvW or PvP because you didn't have the right tier level? or because you didn't have the last level reward?

> > > >

> > > > Or are you saying that you, the global "not me" you, don't enjoy playing WvW or PvP? or gathering mats? or playing Fractals? or running around Tyria, slaying monsters? You're saying there is no fun at all in the experience, inside the game? and the only fun you're having is getting a prize at the end? ...because that's pretty sad.

> > >

> > > Are you certain we're talking about the same thing? My "equally present" comment was referring to having to wait to get certain goals finished when you might already have the materials/other items necessary to do them at the time. Not talking about being shut out of some game type for not having enough X, Y, or Z. If anything, my most memorable time where that _did_ happen was doing dungeons at launch back when they were still a thing. And no, I'm not just trying to rush through to get the "prize" at the end. That's part of the reason I play PvP/WvW more often now than when the game launched. Progress there is mostly due to how well I can do things myself. Which in those modes in particular is only above average, not super skilled, if I'm being honest about my own abilities.

> > >

> > > What I _am_ saying is that it's less rewarding each time you achieve it. I'll take ascended gear for example. _Especially_ in the cases where you might play like I do, across multiple game types frequently (PvP, WvW, Raids, less so on fractals), it's dead simple to get a full set of ascended gear. Maybe I farm Season 3 maps for a week or so for the trinkets, but then it's back to the jam. It takes Anet a good while to get new content patches out, and a good while longer between the bigger releases like expansions, and I'm just worried about what it will look like in the near future.

> > >

> > > Looking at it a different way: If I were a new player, there's a huge chunk of content to get through that blows launch GW2 out of the water, that's clear. But as someone who's been here since the betas I find I get through most content with relative ease. I make my own goals as well, but they don't seem as impactful.

> >

> > ...and if I'd been here since beta, I'm sure I'd have the same "problem". However, as a new(ish) player, I'm not finding that I do. So while your "issue" may apply to vets, most new players likely aren't running into it.

>

> Yes, and that leads to my next question: How is the game doing for new players? How is it able to _keep_ new players? Since I've been a level 80 I haven't really had the new player experience in a long while; until my friend started playing that is. While I was playing with him I noticed that the game doesn't really have the best teaching system about what you should expect. Yes, it does go through the map mechanics somewhat, but my friend still found that he was asking me more than the game was showing him. I don't particularly mind helping him out, or any new player for that matter, but that issue with having the game explain itself easily is a big question I have for new player retention. I don't know, maybe I'm more critical of it because I'm very invested.

>

> I do realize it may be coming across as general impatience, but I'll admit to spending way less time on PoF related material when compared to HoT related material. Maybe it's the lack of metas, maybe bounties weren't targeted towards players w/similar interests (which is true for me), and so forth. I just want to stress that new players will eventually get to the same place everyone else is at, both narratively and in a goal/achievement/gear sense. I'm simply worried at what I perceive to be content that's either not very "dense" or deep enough for it to hold people over until the next content drops, whenever that is for whoever plays it.

 

I can't say for others, but I have a great time, when I am actively playing. The problem for me is, quite simply, "oo, shiny". In the year that I've been playing there have been 2 SP games that I'd been following for a while, or playing the games that came before them in a series. AC Odyssey, and Shadow of the Tomb Raider. I put some serious time in the Tomb Raider game, but Odyssey soaked up 300 hours, so I didn't have time to come back to GW 2. I should also mention that I'd also went back to GW, since I never really got into it before GW 2 came out, despite owning it and most of the expansions. The latter because of an item I got for the Hall of Heroes, I think it is, and noting how empty it was for me in GW 2.

 

As for the rest, that's going to happen in any game you pick up, eventually. I've played MMOs before where I accomplished everything I wanted to, and I've played MMOs where I never got close to that, but played for years. The thing is, at some point, we start playing MMOs more for the people, than the actual game. I've been in the same guild in DDO for almost a decade. I can't bring myself to seriously play that game any more, but I haven't uninstalled it, because every once in a while I log in to chat with the friends I've made there. I've seen the complaint in other places about x game being more of a social network, and I'll counter that with "yeah, but it's supposed to be that way, hence MMO".

 

[Ashantara.8731]

> @"Omernon.9762" said:

> > @"Neural.1824" said:

> > "What does GW2 not have that makes the game diminishing? What do popular games have that Guild Wars 2 doesn't?"

> >

> > Depth. Gw2 overall is very shallow. Skills limited to 5 per weapon wielded (2, 1, and 2 for main hand/off hand sets). Fake variety via the traits, which usually end up with bad builds unless you use the meta which is often based on imbalances. Fake variety in other areas, such as runes, where many of them do just about the same thing unless you have 6 of them to unlock that one 6th stat which often doesn't make much of a difference. A crafting system that barely qualifies as crafting, as all outcomes are pre-determined (mystic forge being an exception, but it shares the same 4-in-1-out process).

> > Everyone in GW2 is equally special. You can be unique via cosmetics, and that's about it. There is no specializing in crafting, for example, that makes a player unique. Even Scribes are common, and the guild hall decoration selection is laughable compared to what other games offer their guilds for a tiny fraction of the cost. The combat lacking "trinity" was a bold move, but has resulted in very little specialization within combat. Choose a class based on how you prefer to manage your cooldowns. Choose traits based on which one is currently best DPS due to imbalance, etc.

> > Fight the same world boss in every zone all pulling from a small pool of gimmick attacks that serve only to make the battle take longer without requiring a whole lot of skill. WvW: run with zerg, or roam with cheese build.

> > Levels mean next to nothing. Usually when someone is new, their first question is "how do I get to level 80 fast?", because there is no depth to content that isn't "end game"

> >

> > There are, of course, outliers and exceptions to the points I've made, but overall there is just a lack of depth to GW2. It's fun to play when bored, but overall compared to other games that have been out there (Rift, Eve, Vanguard, Perfect World, ..you know, pretty much any non-NCSoft game), GW2, and most NCSoft games, is just a carnival with those cheesy rides they bring in on semi-trucks, compared to actual amusement parks.

> > It is, in a way, exactly what NCSoft wanted. The idea of a game that people can pick up or drop when they want, and not worry about missing a lot when they return . Gem store sales and the Living World stuff broke that a bit, but it is what it is.

>

> 1. Playing on a piano gives more depth to a game? [...]

 

I actually agree with what @"Neural.1824" wrote. It's not about "playing the piano", it's about choice and variety, which isn't present in this game. Even GW1 had more to offer in that area. The only time I ever felt truly challenged in this game skill-use wise was during the Festival of the Four Winds (namely the Queen's Gauntlet).

 

I agree on all other points they made, too. GW2 lacks depth in several department.

[TheQuickFox.3826]

This game would greatly benefit from a third expansion announcement. Show the community what you're working on.

Let the hype come back to GW2.

[squallaus.8321]

> @"FrigginPaco.4178" said:

 

> I told him about the quality of life a legendary has over ascended, _rune/attribute swapping sans penalty_, but he was rather nonplussed by it. To him, he hoped legendary would be... legendary. Superior to everything else in slot. No amount of quality of life was going to change his playstyle and I did everything I could to make him look at it from a different perspective, but in the end it didn't take. Something else, entirely unrelated to the games gearing model made him quit, but that probably didn't help. Again, the actual experience of combat didn't take away from the game, but I wonder what can be done to reach out to more people while still allowing this to feel unique and fresh.

 

Often you will find that people aren't good at the game skill wise but dont want to admit they're bad. So when they can't get more stats they just think they can't do better. What they don't realise is this game is about skill and knowledge progression not stats.

 

[squallaus.8321]

> @"Ashantara.8731" said:

> I actually agree with what @"Neural.1824" wrote. It's not about "playing the piano", it's about choice and variety, which isn't present in this game. Even GW1 had more to offer in that area. The only time I ever felt truly challenged in this game skill-use wise was during the Festival of the Four Winds (namely the Queen's Gauntlet).

>

 

You mean once there are no other people in the party to carry you suddenly the content becomes challenging? what a surprise.

Now try soloing some T4 fractal bosses and see how you fair.

 

[squallaus.8321]

> @"Neural.1824" said:

>

> Depth. Gw2 overall is very shallow. Skills limited to 5 per weapon wielded (2, 1, and 2 for main hand/off hand sets).

Different weapons to suit different purposes/fights/playstyle.

 

>Fake variety via the traits, which usually end up with bad builds unless you use the meta which is often based on imbalances.

IF you haven't realised yet, meta builds aren't always the best for every fight. Different traits are taken often for different fight and to tailor to different party compositions.

 

>Fake variety in other areas, such as runes, where many of them do just about the same thing unless you have 6 of them to unlock that one 6th stat which often doesn't make much of a difference.

Except alot of them are very different. The REAL valid criticism is not all of them get used.

 

>A crafting system that barely qualifies as crafting, as all outcomes are pre-determined (mystic forge being an exception, but it shares the same 4-in-1-out process).

 

You mean instead of getting random stats and random quality like in other MMORPGs which end up wasting people's time and force people to recraft the same thing endlessly? No gw2 has it much better, you get exactly what you intend to craft.

 

 

> Everyone in GW2 is equally special. You can be unique via cosmetics, and that's about it. There is no specializing in crafting, for example, that makes a player unique.

 

Everyone has equal opporunity to play well but whether they actually play well depend on their determination and experience. Players skill level and play styles in gw2 have great variety compared to other MMO. Basically yousound like you care more about showing off than actual substance.

 

> The combat lacking "trinity" was a bold move, but has resulted in very little specialization within combat. Choose a class based on how you prefer to manage your cooldowns. Choose traits based on which one is currently best DPS due to imbalance, etc.

 

Actually it resulted in great variety in builds that people can opt to take depending on what they want to do. Ever seen someone take different traits, weapons, sigils for specific fights? No? then you haven't been playing the harder content of the game and only been sticking to casual content.

 

> Fight the same world boss in every zone all pulling from a small pool of gimmick attacks that serve only to make the battle take longer without requiring a whole lot of skill.

Yes world bosses are casual content.

 

> WvW: run with zerg, or roam with cheese build.

OR maybe you can learn how to play aginst cheese builds rather than complaining. Yes your favourate build that you enjoy playing wont work against everything.

 

> Levels mean next to nothing. Usually when someone is new, their first question is "how do I get to level 80 fast?", because there is no depth to content that isn't "end game"

>

Leveling from 1 to 80 is a tutorial where the new player learn the basics of their class and they get to explore and learn about the world of Tyria.

 

 

> There are, of course, outliers and exceptions to the points I've made, but overall there is just a lack of depth to GW2.

No you just lack appreciation and facts.

 

 

> It is, in a way, exactly what NCSoft wanted. The idea of a game that people can pick up or drop when they want, and not worry about missing a lot when they return . Gem store sales and the Living World stuff broke that a bit, but it is what it is.

 

Yes that way people dont need to quit if they're busy for a month. Their gear that they've spend time farming will still be useful the next time they log in.

 

 

[FrigginPaco.4178]

> @"squallaus.8321" said:

> > @"FrigginPaco.4178" said:

>

> > I told him about the quality of life a legendary has over ascended, _rune/attribute swapping sans penalty_, but he was rather nonplussed by it. To him, he hoped legendary would be... legendary. Superior to everything else in slot. No amount of quality of life was going to change his playstyle and I did everything I could to make him look at it from a different perspective, but in the end it didn't take. Something else, entirely unrelated to the games gearing model made him quit, but that probably didn't help. Again, the actual experience of combat didn't take away from the game, but I wonder what can be done to reach out to more people while still allowing this to feel unique and fresh.

>

> Often you will find that people aren't good at the game skill wise but dont want to admit they're bad. So when they can't get more stats they just think they can't do better. What they don't realise is this game is about skill and knowledge progression not stats.

>

 

That's definitely true for the early-mid portions of his experience, and to be fair he gave it a much bigger shot than the last time. Ironically by the time he quit he wasn't experiencing much difficulty with metas and stuff, but I think in the end his philosophy and the one this game puts forward don't jive. It's a shame, but it might simply be a case of "you can't please everybody", especially now that I'm thinking about it again.

 

EDIT: I also tried to let him know that this was a game where the skill/knowledge cap was the final frontier, but he was also not terribly moved by that argument. Back in WoW he had also been involved with their most difficult raiding content. I understand that experience doesn't necessarily translate into this game, especially for PvE which is a wet paper bag, but it may help understand his perspective.

[Scar.1793]

> @"FrigginPaco.4178" said:

>

> > @"Sorem.9157" said:

>

> > What does GW2 not have that makes the game diminishing? What do popular games have that Guild Wars 2 doesn't? If you wanna know my opinion, it is PvP incentive. Most popular games of this time revolve around PvP in the format of MOBAs or Battle Royale of some sort. I'm not saying GW2 should be like that, it has it's own different niche and it can be very popular at that. PvP is never the same, doesn't matter how many times you play it, because it is a human versus another human things can always go either way. PvE is not like that and that is why (in my humble opinion) it doesn't make games popular. ArenaNet has neglected PvP for far too long and it is hard to understand why, since PvP in GW1 was clearly the main reason of its success.

> >

>

> I'm going to be honest, the thing GW2 lacks that makes the game "diminishing" as you said, would be resources. Please allow me a brief digression to explain this:

>

> I had a friend that I managed to finally entice to play GW2 for the first time. He was an ex-WoW and ex-Final Fantasy XIV player, and spent most of his playtime on the former. After having played this game for about 100 hours he noted that the **volume** of our content was rather shallow. He enjoyed the quality of it, the writing, and the feel of the game, but using his words "Your expansions just feel so small compared to what I'm used to,".

>

> His experiences with our in-game store were also a source of frustration due to the fact that he was prone to overspending and was aware of the artificial scarcity produced by the marketing structure used. This is referring to the fact that not 100% of the items on the gemstore are available 100% of the time, thus limiting the shopping window to produce a sense of "missing out" on the items for weeks or months until they return. This is where I'm going to bring it back.

>

> Money. The 3rd quarter of 2017 made GW2 a large percentage of its profits for that year. The Path of Fire expansion is what caused that huge bump in profits, obviously. In the months after expansions hit profits go on a steady decline. The only thing left is the gemstore. To me, this is a very weak strategy that hinges on the notion that various cosmetics/quality of life upgrades will be enough to keep profits in whatever ranges NCsoft wants them to be.

>

> I've been a Guild Wars player since the moment I joined the game in 2007. From then on, I have enjoyed over ten years of the studio's games. However, after having witnessed the layoffs with the rest of the community I think it's time I realize something. I know that if offered, I would pay a premium subscription fee for this game. It would **NECESSARILY HAVE TO BE** extremely bare bones in order to not retroactively sting the people who have spent crazy amounts on the gemstore, something like a flat stipend of 1000 gems per month or something similar. Maybe throw in another one of those 1 day celebration boosters at the start of every week, who knows, something! If I'm not mistaken Elder Scrolls Online has something similar after they removed their mandatory subscription fee, and they have some other rewards that go along with having been a subscriber over a longer period of time... But ArenaNet **needs money** more than anything else, and a $10 (U.S.) sub fee - to me - is worth providing if it means I can see more content over the long run.

>

> TL;DR. I am invested enough in this game's success and the enjoyment I get from it that I would pay for a bare-bones sub fee if it meant getting a higher volume of content.

 

Completely agree with you on this. I would also add that along with the low volume of content poor balance patches are to blame too. Just as an example power rev has been unplayable and rejected in every endgame mode (raid/fractals). It’s been years. The few latest patches only made it worse and we have to pray for the patch not being as bad or worse. Which comes around 3-4 months from now. It’s terrible and was also one of the reasons I left and went back to one of the MMO you mentioned.