Shadow Order.7258 Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 Whenever you change skills at the fundamental level (ex. clones/phantasm and gyro reworks) please employ a few pvp testers before release. While many appreciate some of these changes, when implemented untested it leads to horrible pvp. Add in the slowness of your patches it forces many to despise the game mode. Now we are stuck with 3-4 scrappers a game face-tanking like overturned bosses for at least the next 3 months... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fortus.6175 Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 4-5 months* I volunteer to test ele stuff. I think Anet needs to look at players with large experience on certain classes and recruit them, because they are the ones which will give them the best feedback. And yeah, it'll be Scrapper Wars 2 for a season and a half+. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phokus.8934 Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 1) They won't give limited players access to early balance changes. 2) Test server makes the most sense but seeing we don't have one today, don't expect one at all. 3) Off-season coming up so maybe we'll see changes there... maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kicast.1459 Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 Dear customers, We appreciate your proposal for better quality development... ...but no...thanks. Test...lol. We prepare a huge list of tooltip fix for next patches in coming months...stay tuned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burjis.3087 Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 And they wonder why their player base shrinks. At least it used to take a couple of weeks after a patch for op metas to emerge. Now, imbalance just oozes from patch notes and you feel it on the next day. Unfortunately losing some of their employees won't help either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mthe mystery.4615 Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 Idk about you guys but I'm really liking the scrapper in team play. It doesn't do insane damage what-so-ever. I love the play style and don't thinks its "SOOOO OP." The only thing I would consider changing is the shroud gained from the one gyro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fortus.6175 Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 > @"Mthe mystery.4615" said: > Idk about you guys but I'm really liking the scrapper in team play. It doesn't do insane damage what-so-ever. I love the play style and don't thinks its "SOOOO OP." The only thing I would consider changing is the shroud gained from the one gyro. I mean, playing a strong class always feel good. I remember when I picked up soulbeasts after getting my butt kicked with ele I suddenly felt like a god, being able to drop people with 1/4 of the button pressed and with still most CD up, while my health barely went under 50% unless in teamfights. Not exactly the same I know, but for a time I started thinking "hey man, Im just so good", but at some point I try to step back and reflect on it with as little bias as possible, and I came to the conclusion that perhaps the class was a tad overtuned, and sure you could say that after playing ele anything would feel good, but i also play guardian and still didnt feel that exhilarating, powerful and easy. I plan to pick up scrapper in a few days once im back from a small break just to try it out, but after playing weaver a few times, I can tell that it will probably give me the same feeling i got from soulbeast, so Im already trying to be as critical and self-reflecting as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ario.8964 Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 > @"Shadow Order.7258" said: > Whenever you change skills at the fundamental level (ex. clones/phantasm and gyro reworks) please employ a few pvp testers before release. While many appreciate some of these changes, when implemented untested it leads to horrible pvp. Add in the slowness of your patches it forces many to despise the game mode. Now we are stuck with 3-4 scrappers a game face-tanking like overturned bosses for at least the next 3 months... Possible solution is to play power rev. It's a solid counter (CAN 1v1 but it's not worth taking it) especially as a plus because the sustained heavy single target damage is not something scrapper's kit handles very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaogin.2679 Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 > @"Ario.8964" said: > > @"Shadow Order.7258" said: > > Whenever you change skills at the fundamental level (ex. clones/phantasm and gyro reworks) please employ a few pvp testers before release. While many appreciate some of these changes, when implemented untested it leads to horrible pvp. Add in the slowness of your patches it forces many to despise the game mode. Now we are stuck with 3-4 scrappers a game face-tanking like overturned bosses for at least the next 3 months... > > Possible solution is to play power rev. It's a solid counter (CAN 1v1 but it's not worth taking it) especially as a plus because the sustained heavy single target damage is not something scrapper's kit handles very well. What gives you the idea that Scrappers cannot sustain against heavy single target damage? I play on a Menders Medkit Scrapper and sustain against condi and power all day long, while supporting my team and bunkering points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ario.8964 Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 > @"Shaogin.2679" said: > > @"Ario.8964" said: > > > @"Shadow Order.7258" said: > > > Whenever you change skills at the fundamental level (ex. clones/phantasm and gyro reworks) please employ a few pvp testers before release. While many appreciate some of these changes, when implemented untested it leads to horrible pvp. Add in the slowness of your patches it forces many to despise the game mode. Now we are stuck with 3-4 scrappers a game face-tanking like overturned bosses for at least the next 3 months... > > > > Possible solution is to play power rev. It's a solid counter (CAN 1v1 but it's not worth taking it) especially as a plus because the sustained heavy single target damage is not something scrapper's kit handles very well. > > What gives you the idea that Scrappers cannot sustain against heavy single target damage? I play on a Menders Medkit Scrapper and sustain against condi and power all day long, while supporting my team and bunkering points. Using my own scrapper build as an example, you can sustain against a steady damage flow all day long since cooldown cycling and general tankiness allows for it. Given that scrapper only runs around with about 16-18k hp (if you want to kill anything as mender's and paladin both lack significant damage), doesn't run s, and is built for sustained combat not burst combat, rev is a nutral counter because it brings a ton of burst to the table and can sustain it long enough to break through the engi's cds before things like barrier fully ramp up. You can sustain against it for a little bit (this all depends on player skill for both the scrapper and rev) but say you're already in a 1v1 and you've burnt through a bit of your cd's and a rev jumps you. If you had all your cds you could sustain through it for a bit, but without full cd access scrapper can't tank that much damage for that long so it makes sense to bring rev as a counter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whoknocks.4935 Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 Nerf scrapper so boonbeasts, holosmiths and mirages can go back to dominate pvp again for another 3 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaogin.2679 Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 > @"Ario.8964" said: > > @"Shaogin.2679" said: > > > @"Ario.8964" said: > > > > @"Shadow Order.7258" said: > > > > Whenever you change skills at the fundamental level (ex. clones/phantasm and gyro reworks) please employ a few pvp testers before release. While many appreciate some of these changes, when implemented untested it leads to horrible pvp. Add in the slowness of your patches it forces many to despise the game mode. Now we are stuck with 3-4 scrappers a game face-tanking like overturned bosses for at least the next 3 months... > > > > > > Possible solution is to play power rev. It's a solid counter (CAN 1v1 but it's not worth taking it) especially as a plus because the sustained heavy single target damage is not something scrapper's kit handles very well. > > > > What gives you the idea that Scrappers cannot sustain against heavy single target damage? I play on a Menders Medkit Scrapper and sustain against condi and power all day long, while supporting my team and bunkering points. > > Using my own scrapper build as an example, you can sustain against a steady damage flow all day long since cooldown cycling and general tankiness allows for it. Given that scrapper only runs around with about 16-18k hp (if you want to kill anything as mender's and paladin both lack significant damage), doesn't run s, and is built for sustained combat not burst combat, rev is a nutral counter because it brings a ton of burst to the table and can sustain it long enough to break through the engi's cds before things like barrier fully ramp up. You can sustain against it for a little bit (this all depends on player skill for both the scrapper and rev) but say you're already in a 1v1 and you've burnt through a bit of your cd's and a rev jumps you. If you had all your cds you could sustain through it for a bit, but without full cd access scrapper can't tank that much damage for that long so it makes sense to bring rev as a counter. But again, Menders Scrapper (which is being seen a lot) will not die to a Revenant. The Scrapper doesn't need to kill anyone. Simply by being on point, I can: * Prevent it from being capped. * Support my team with excellent healing and condi conversion, along with some stability, damage reduction, and projectile defense. * Easily rez downed allies and finish downed enemies. Sure Scrapper can't provide all the utility that a Firebrand can, but a Firebrand is MUCH easier to focus down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddog.3716 Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 Ventari throw out with point Scrapper. Not everyone is given to accept... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ario.8964 Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 > @"Shaogin.2679" said: > > @"Ario.8964" said: > > > @"Shaogin.2679" said: > > > > @"Ario.8964" said: > > > > > @"Shadow Order.7258" said: > > > > > Whenever you change skills at the fundamental level (ex. clones/phantasm and gyro reworks) please employ a few pvp testers before release. While many appreciate some of these changes, when implemented untested it leads to horrible pvp. Add in the slowness of your patches it forces many to despise the game mode. Now we are stuck with 3-4 scrappers a game face-tanking like overturned bosses for at least the next 3 months... > > > > > > > > Possible solution is to play power rev. It's a solid counter (CAN 1v1 but it's not worth taking it) especially as a plus because the sustained heavy single target damage is not something scrapper's kit handles very well. > > > > > > What gives you the idea that Scrappers cannot sustain against heavy single target damage? I play on a Menders Medkit Scrapper and sustain against condi and power all day long, while supporting my team and bunkering points. > > > > Using my own scrapper build as an example, you can sustain against a steady damage flow all day long since cooldown cycling and general tankiness allows for it. Given that scrapper only runs around with about 16-18k hp (if you want to kill anything as mender's and paladin both lack significant damage), doesn't run s, and is built for sustained combat not burst combat, rev is a nutral counter because it brings a ton of burst to the table and can sustain it long enough to break through the engi's cds before things like barrier fully ramp up. You can sustain against it for a little bit (this all depends on player skill for both the scrapper and rev) but say you're already in a 1v1 and you've burnt through a bit of your cd's and a rev jumps you. If you had all your cds you could sustain through it for a bit, but without full cd access scrapper can't tank that much damage for that long so it makes sense to bring rev as a counter. > > But again, Menders Scrapper (which is being seen a lot) will not die to a Revenant. The Scrapper doesn't need to kill anyone. Simply by being on point, I can: > * Prevent it from being capped. > * Support my team with excellent healing and condi conversion, along with some stability, damage reduction, and projectile defense. > * Easily rez downed allies and finish downed enemies. > > Sure Scrapper can't provide all the utility that a Firebrand can, but a Firebrand is MUCH easier to focus down. Not necessarily true. Mender's scrapper (depending on trait setup) has limited stability so if the rev can bait out some of the defensive cds, land a cc chain, and burst then it's a win. Also take into account that rev is not running around looking to 1v1 scrapper, you will most likely end up vs war or boonbeast which can both sustain on the point against you without getting decapped. After they've fought you for a bit a rev could plus you and then you will die unless you kite and outplay the gank but then the weakness of mender scrapper is exposed and that is once they take the cap from you, you are useless in that area as you can't kill in a 1v1 so they will just leave a sustained 1v1 to fight you on a capped point. Rev isn't the be all end all solution to fighting scrapper, but it does exist as a counter, that's all I'm telling the OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaogin.2679 Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 > @"Ario.8964" said: > > @"Shaogin.2679" said: > > > @"Ario.8964" said: > > > > @"Shaogin.2679" said: > > > > > @"Ario.8964" said: > > > > > > @"Shadow Order.7258" said: > > > > > > Whenever you change skills at the fundamental level (ex. clones/phantasm and gyro reworks) please employ a few pvp testers before release. While many appreciate some of these changes, when implemented untested it leads to horrible pvp. Add in the slowness of your patches it forces many to despise the game mode. Now we are stuck with 3-4 scrappers a game face-tanking like overturned bosses for at least the next 3 months... > > > > > > > > > > Possible solution is to play power rev. It's a solid counter (CAN 1v1 but it's not worth taking it) especially as a plus because the sustained heavy single target damage is not something scrapper's kit handles very well. > > > > > > > > What gives you the idea that Scrappers cannot sustain against heavy single target damage? I play on a Menders Medkit Scrapper and sustain against condi and power all day long, while supporting my team and bunkering points. > > > > > > Using my own scrapper build as an example, you can sustain against a steady damage flow all day long since cooldown cycling and general tankiness allows for it. Given that scrapper only runs around with about 16-18k hp (if you want to kill anything as mender's and paladin both lack significant damage), doesn't run s, and is built for sustained combat not burst combat, rev is a nutral counter because it brings a ton of burst to the table and can sustain it long enough to break through the engi's cds before things like barrier fully ramp up. You can sustain against it for a little bit (this all depends on player skill for both the scrapper and rev) but say you're already in a 1v1 and you've burnt through a bit of your cd's and a rev jumps you. If you had all your cds you could sustain through it for a bit, but without full cd access scrapper can't tank that much damage for that long so it makes sense to bring rev as a counter. > > > > But again, Menders Scrapper (which is being seen a lot) will not die to a Revenant. The Scrapper doesn't need to kill anyone. Simply by being on point, I can: > > * Prevent it from being capped. > > * Support my team with excellent healing and condi conversion, along with some stability, damage reduction, and projectile defense. > > * Easily rez downed allies and finish downed enemies. > > > > Sure Scrapper can't provide all the utility that a Firebrand can, but a Firebrand is MUCH easier to focus down. > > Not necessarily true. Mender's scrapper (depending on trait setup) has limited stability so if the rev can bait out some of the defensive cds, land a cc chain, and burst then it's a win. Also take into account that rev is not running around looking to 1v1 scrapper, you will most likely end up vs war or boonbeast which can both sustain on the point against you without getting decapped. After they've fought you for a bit a rev could plus you and then you will die unless you kite and outplay the gank but then the weakness of mender scrapper is exposed and that is once they take the cap from you, you are useless in that area as you can't kill in a 1v1 so they will just leave a sustained 1v1 to fight you on a capped point. Rev isn't the be all end all solution to fighting scrapper, but it does exist as a counter, that's all I'm telling the OP. Yeah but now you're talking about a 2v1. Sure, Rev is probably useful against a Scrapper, but I wouldn't call it a counter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ario.8964 Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 > @"Shaogin.2679" said: > > @"Ario.8964" said: > > > @"Shaogin.2679" said: > > > > @"Ario.8964" said: > > > > > @"Shaogin.2679" said: > > > > > > @"Ario.8964" said: > > > > > > > @"Shadow Order.7258" said: > > > > > > > Whenever you change skills at the fundamental level (ex. clones/phantasm and gyro reworks) please employ a few pvp testers before release. While many appreciate some of these changes, when implemented untested it leads to horrible pvp. Add in the slowness of your patches it forces many to despise the game mode. Now we are stuck with 3-4 scrappers a game face-tanking like overturned bosses for at least the next 3 months... > > > > > > > > > > > > Possible solution is to play power rev. It's a solid counter (CAN 1v1 but it's not worth taking it) especially as a plus because the sustained heavy single target damage is not something scrapper's kit handles very well. > > > > > > > > > > What gives you the idea that Scrappers cannot sustain against heavy single target damage? I play on a Menders Medkit Scrapper and sustain against condi and power all day long, while supporting my team and bunkering points. > > > > > > > > Using my own scrapper build as an example, you can sustain against a steady damage flow all day long since cooldown cycling and general tankiness allows for it. Given that scrapper only runs around with about 16-18k hp (if you want to kill anything as mender's and paladin both lack significant damage), doesn't run s, and is built for sustained combat not burst combat, rev is a nutral counter because it brings a ton of burst to the table and can sustain it long enough to break through the engi's cds before things like barrier fully ramp up. You can sustain against it for a little bit (this all depends on player skill for both the scrapper and rev) but say you're already in a 1v1 and you've burnt through a bit of your cd's and a rev jumps you. If you had all your cds you could sustain through it for a bit, but without full cd access scrapper can't tank that much damage for that long so it makes sense to bring rev as a counter. > > > > > > But again, Menders Scrapper (which is being seen a lot) will not die to a Revenant. The Scrapper doesn't need to kill anyone. Simply by being on point, I can: > > > * Prevent it from being capped. > > > * Support my team with excellent healing and condi conversion, along with some stability, damage reduction, and projectile defense. > > > * Easily rez downed allies and finish downed enemies. > > > > > > Sure Scrapper can't provide all the utility that a Firebrand can, but a Firebrand is MUCH easier to focus down. > > > > Not necessarily true. Mender's scrapper (depending on trait setup) has limited stability so if the rev can bait out some of the defensive cds, land a cc chain, and burst then it's a win. Also take into account that rev is not running around looking to 1v1 scrapper, you will most likely end up vs war or boonbeast which can both sustain on the point against you without getting decapped. After they've fought you for a bit a rev could plus you and then you will die unless you kite and outplay the gank but then the weakness of mender scrapper is exposed and that is once they take the cap from you, you are useless in that area as you can't kill in a 1v1 so they will just leave a sustained 1v1 to fight you on a capped point. Rev isn't the be all end all solution to fighting scrapper, but it does exist as a counter, that's all I'm telling the OP. > > Yeah but now you're talking about a 2v1. Sure, Rev is probably useful against a Scrapper, but I wouldn't call it a counter. It's not a hard counter no, just a soft counter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alain.1659 Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 A proper test mechanic for anet would've saved many things. Yet they are consistent in their idiocy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Multicolorhipster.9751 Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 Time to test changes would be great, and it would make a lot of sense given how slow the time between balance patches is. A PTR/PTS would be great for sPvP for the same reason it's great in just about any other game. It gives time to test and give feedback on changes. Even if that's impossible, they could still give us patch previews like they did last time, only not right directly before the patch releases. There's no use in giving us a preview if our feedback on the upcoming changes is going to be ignored. For reference; you don't show someone a "Caution: Wet Floor" sign after they've already slipped and fell. You show them before, so that they have time to step out of the way. Same thing here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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