this is the most imbalanced patch by far that we've had since PoF release

[apharma.3741]

> @"Quadox.7834" said:

> > @"Chaith.8256" said:

> > > @"Quadox.7834" said:

> > > > @"BlackTruth.6813" said:

> > > > The trait rework was nice, HoT ruined it and killed e-sports.

> > > >

> > > > We legit had viewership then to be fair, when HoT came? Hotfix or we quit is what the players said.

> > >

> > > I respect the opinion but I staunchly disagree (specifically about the trait rework being nice).

> >

> > I don't really see the evidence for you to staunchly disagree over. After the trait re-work we had massive diversity of builds, diverse meta strategies in PvP, and the most viewability the game ever had. You could run a Teamfight comp with Support Guardian, double Rampage Warrior & Burn Guard (ORNG LOGO), a Thief/Mesmer rotational portal comp, (TCG), or a balanced duelist double Ele comp (ABJ), all to photo finish matches. These strategies were all fairly balanced (double Ele may have been arguably the most busted since it was winning once Abjured learned you could run away from teamfights.)

> >

> > What is your evidence to support your claim that this patch was powercreep, and a bad thing? Some classes like Engi were at a higher power level pre-core specs.

>

> Concerning powercreep, they reduced the number of major traits to 8 from 12-13 per line, merging many traits in the process (and adding new/reworked ones). Also gave us 3 full traitlines in one build, up from 2 and 1/3. Never heard anyone not call this patch powercreep, that surprises me.

>

> As for the rest I don't need evidence, as it is an opinion.

 

The only thing I know of as any confirmation of power creep that you can rely on as any form of evidence is the PvE dps profiles and numbers. If I remember correctly guardian was considered extremely good and was about 20-22k. I'm not sure if that was after the trait rework or before hand and it would take a hell of a lot of going through old DnT videos to find.

 

Obviously we don't count FGS shenanigans and when frostbow was stupidly busted.

 

Now we have guardians doing nearly 50% more than that, so without a doubt elite specs are far stronger than core ever was and this is even after might was nerfed.

 

https://snowcrows.com/benchmarks/

[Quadox.7834]

> @"apharma.3741" said:

> > @"Quadox.7834" said:

> > > @"Chaith.8256" said:

> > > > @"Quadox.7834" said:

> > > > > @"BlackTruth.6813" said:

> > > > > The trait rework was nice, HoT ruined it and killed e-sports.

> > > > >

> > > > > We legit had viewership then to be fair, when HoT came? Hotfix or we quit is what the players said.

> > > >

> > > > I respect the opinion but I staunchly disagree (specifically about the trait rework being nice).

> > >

> > > I don't really see the evidence for you to staunchly disagree over. After the trait re-work we had massive diversity of builds, diverse meta strategies in PvP, and the most viewability the game ever had. You could run a Teamfight comp with Support Guardian, double Rampage Warrior & Burn Guard (ORNG LOGO), a Thief/Mesmer rotational portal comp, (TCG), or a balanced duelist double Ele comp (ABJ), all to photo finish matches. These strategies were all fairly balanced (double Ele may have been arguably the most busted since it was winning once Abjured learned you could run away from teamfights.)

> > >

> > > What is your evidence to support your claim that this patch was powercreep, and a bad thing? Some classes like Engi were at a higher power level pre-core specs.

> >

> > Concerning powercreep, they reduced the number of major traits to 8 from 12-13 per line, merging many traits in the process (and adding new/reworked ones). Also gave us 3 full traitlines in one build, up from 2 and 1/3. Never heard anyone not call this patch powercreep, that surprises me.

> >

> > As for the rest I don't need evidence, as it is an opinion.

>

> The only thing I know of as any confirmation of power creep that you can rely on as any form of evidence is the PvE dps profiles and numbers. If I remember correctly guardian was considered extremely good and was about 20-22k. I'm not sure if that was after the trait rework or before hand and it would take a hell of a lot of going through old DnT videos to find.

>

> Obviously we don't count FGS shenanigans and when frostbow was stupidly busted.

>

> Now we have guardians doing nearly 50% more than that, so without a doubt elite specs are far stronger than core ever was and this is even after might was nerfed.

>

> https://snowcrows.com/benchmarks/

 

I mean I am not an expert on all professions but just looking at mesmer it is EXTREMELY obvious that there was big powercreep.

[whoknocks.4935]

> @"Snellibee.2761" said:

> > @"Quadox.7834" said:

> > > @"Snellibee.2761" said:

> > > Thing is if Condi Mirage is so bad like you say why are so many people wanting to have it nerfed? Why are there so many people saying it is completely OP? Why isn't ele being called op and in need of nerfs? And why aren't there any threads about Revenant being OP beside your own?

> > >

> > > You need to realize by now that you're the ONLY one with your vision and mindset. Everybody else thinks different. If 90% of the population thinks that Condi Mirage was OP then it's pretty likely that Condi Mirage is OP.

> > >

> > > You're also really the only one complaining about Revenant, I honestly don't understand how you're this high ranked but you're getting wiped by a +1 class especially when Condi Mirage is like a direct counter against Revenants.

> >

> > Last paragraph isn't really true, there are complaints about rev on higher level. It is certainly very very strong right now. On forums/reddit the median rank is probably gold so different kinds of complaints come to light.

>

> All high elo players I've talked to and streamers like Sindrener have never said that Rev is broken in any way. In fact they mention how hard it is to play and to disengage from fights you can't win and how it relies so hard on support to really shine.

>

> Theres no doubt that Revenant is strong in the right hands, but calling it broken is absolutely absurd. There is no way you should lose to a Revenant 1v1 unless you're another dps spec like Reaper. Holosmith has an edge over Revenant, Mirage has an edge over Revenant, Warrior has an edge over Revenant, Thief has an edge over Revenant, Soulbeast has an edge over Revenant. Weaver is a trash spec but anything has an edge over a Weaver. The only classes that can die 1v1 against a Revenant without being seriously outplayed are Reaper, Core Guardian, Sick'em Ranger because all these classes are DPS' themself.

>

> Besides, Holosmith and Warrior can nearly to as much damage as Revenants can and they're considered duelers. I sometimes play Spellbreaker and my Arcing Slice regulary hits for 8-9k. Basically all my attacks do high damage. And we all know how much damage Holosmiths can do with the sustain they have. Does that seem right?

>

> Revenant rewards people for timing. If you can't time your dodges, your block and Infused Light, you're dead. If you can't time your bursts (wich mainly exist on sword OH) you'll most likely not win the fight because you don't have the sustain to keep that fight up long enough to burst again. Revenant is one of the few classes that don't give you a "I kitten up but it doesn't matter" button to save your life when you made a mistake. It also doesn't give you a passive to save your life when you weren't paying attention and an enemy tried to burst you and take advantage of it. Let's not forget that whilst needing to pay attention to your endurance and cooldowns, you also need to pay attention to energy usage. it's just another mechanic they indroduced to Revenant that requires you to pay more attention than any other class.

>

> So many classes have such a simple design and are so forgiving to play. Revenant isn't one of those and requires constant attention and concentration.

 

Dude, in 1vs1 warrior vs revenant, this is the easiest matchup for a revenant and you can 100-0 a warrior with ease.

Even in WvW duels where the warrior is not that nerfed as in sPvP (megabane etc.) you can see how it's a stupidly easy matchup.

Revenant is trash only against condis, but is one of the strongest specs to deal with power specs if you smart use your blocks evades and kiting things.

Revenant is no more the high skilled spec it was at the beginning, now it's fairly easy mode and easy to do good with, especially for veteran players even if it's not their main.

[BlackTruth.6813]

The ONLY time revenant is a hard class is if you try to go full dedicated healer with dwarf + ventari menders amulet, because you have to actually micro manage A LOT. Sad that it isn't viably balanced. DPS rev was always braindead, sure it got hard countered by conditions but it's an obnoxious evade spam class as a DPS even at beginning and now, just without a pet.

 

Definitely a lesser evil than Mesmer and Ranger because no phantasms or AI and it has to dodge bait by itself, but the blind spam, evade spam, with mobility just makes it a Guardian but pretty much just as ez mode + mobility. Not really a skill shot class like grenade engi back in the day after slick shoes nerf.

 

P.S When you have superspeed and evade spam, WARRIOR DOESN'T COUNTER YOU (yes by that logic even scrapper is a skill match up vs. Warrior assuming that superspeed is USED TO DODGE WARRIOR because super speed CAN outrun Warrior damage)

[Quadox.7834]

> @"BlackTruth.6813" said:

> The ONLY time revenant is a hard class is if you try to go full dedicated healer with dwarf + ventari menders amulet, because you have to actually micro manage A LOT. Sad that it isn't viably balanced. DPS rev was always braindead, sure it got hard countered by conditions but it's an obnoxious evade spam class as a DPS even at beginning and now, just without a pet.

>

> Definitely a lesser evil than Mesmer and Ranger because no phantasms or AI and it has to dodge bait by itself, but the blind spam, evade spam, with mobility just makes it a Guardian but pretty much just as ez mode + mobility. Not really a skill shot class like grenade engi back in the day after slick shoes nerf.

>

> P.S When you have superspeed and evade spam, WARRIOR DOESN'T COUNTER YOU (yes by that logic even scrapper is a skill match up vs. Warrior assuming that superspeed is USED TO DODGE WARRIOR because super speed CAN outrun Warrior damage)

 

Ah yes, warrior 120% hardest class in the game and universe, everyone else is n00b

[BlackTruth.6813]

> @"Quadox.7834" said:

> > @"BlackTruth.6813" said:

> > The ONLY time revenant is a hard class is if you try to go full dedicated healer with dwarf + ventari menders amulet, because you have to actually micro manage A LOT. Sad that it isn't viably balanced. DPS rev was always braindead, sure it got hard countered by conditions but it's an obnoxious evade spam class as a DPS even at beginning and now, just without a pet.

> >

> > Definitely a lesser evil than Mesmer and Ranger because no phantasms or AI and it has to dodge bait by itself, but the blind spam, evade spam, with mobility just makes it a Guardian but pretty much just as ez mode + mobility. Not really a skill shot class like grenade engi back in the day after slick shoes nerf.

> >

> > P.S When you have superspeed and evade spam, WARRIOR DOESN'T COUNTER YOU (yes by that logic even scrapper is a skill match up vs. Warrior assuming that superspeed is USED TO DODGE WARRIOR because super speed CAN outrun Warrior damage)

>

> Ah yes, warrior 120% hardest class in the game and universe, everyone else is n00b

 

Not what I said, I specifically said it isn't core Engi with grenades lol. That's probably the reasonably hardest thing to pull off right now (grenade engi)

 

Honest class = Middle ground, just balanced not the hardest (obviously) is my premise on my main

[Burnfall.9573]

Speaking of warrior;

'One Shot Warrior | GW2 | Core Warrior | WvW' by Special Snowflake

 

 

[Master Ketsu.4569]

> @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said:

> > The only thing wrong with the patch is it overbuffed scrapper to the point where it shifted the entire meta since any team comp must now have a way to cope with it or else be considered a bad comp.

> >

> > Complaining about Mesmer nerfs is just silly. The class received the single biggest buff ( Phantasm rework ) since the history of all Guild Wars buffs ( Yes, including GW1 ). This buff occurred at a time when Mirage was already considered a top meta build. Literally every good player I know has been saying the class is broken for over a year now. Here is the truth: The rework made it so Mesmer is now a class of which its core design is to basically spam defenses while AI does the work for it. This is a low risk, high reward, non-interactive, lazy playstyle. There are some good and interactive mesmer builds, like Chronoburst as being played by shorts deserves respect. But most mesmer builds since the rework are just flat out braindead.

> >

> > Mesmer still has a meta build to play. Chronobunk scepter is still very much an S+-tier build. There are some classes out there that barely have an A-tier build. People need to learn to stop being so entitled when it comes to their class and look around. You will find that almost every class in the game has a spec or two that is considered trash. Renegade has been trash tier since release. Berserker has been demoted to PvE farming spec for how long? Core ele LMAO. Core engie LMAO. DH ? Farm. Staff DD? Farm.

>

> Except what you call the biggest buff in gw history is more of a nerf.

> Some phantasm skills became trash (staff, focus), some have now one of the biggest windups in game (torch), some can be avoided by a single sidestep (sword), and to add to that, shatters and burst became much slower since you have to wait for the phantasm conversion.

>

> The only thing you can consider a buff is the visual clutter, which no mesmer gives a rat's kitten about because finding the real mesmer isn't an issue since 2012.

 

Phantasm rework was only a nerf for people in silver/bronze/low gold where people would just let phantasms do their thing and never could tell which mesmer was real anyways.

 

As for 1500-1800 rated, we all got to enjoy chronobunk becoming literal SSS+ tier and 15k phantasmal disenchants _with paladins_. Being reworked into one powerful attack that then funneled into clones is much more useful against decent players than an ineffective illusion that took up a clone spot. It's also not so much the visual clutter, but the fact that so many illusions soaking up damage means many skills will naturally deal less damage to you, regardless of whether or not they can find the real mesmer as any half decent player has zero problems doing that. If you read skill descriptions you will notice most have a limit of affected targets to either 3 or 5, or have damage split/reduced when multiple targets are available. This means with 5-9 illusions on screen you can negate a ton of DPS coming your way simply by mindlessly spamming illusion skills like a maniac. It was not a good change for the game and did nothing more than change mesmer from one of the most skill intensive classes into a complete monkey class.

[Odik.4587]

> @"Master Ketsu.4569" said:

> > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said:

> > > The only thing wrong with the patch is it overbuffed scrapper to the point where it shifted the entire meta since any team comp must now have a way to cope with it or else be considered a bad comp.

> > >

> > > Complaining about Mesmer nerfs is just silly. The class received the single biggest buff ( Phantasm rework ) since the history of all Guild Wars buffs ( Yes, including GW1 ). This buff occurred at a time when Mirage was already considered a top meta build. Literally every good player I know has been saying the class is broken for over a year now. Here is the truth: The rework made it so Mesmer is now a class of which its core design is to basically spam defenses while AI does the work for it. This is a low risk, high reward, non-interactive, lazy playstyle. There are some good and interactive mesmer builds, like Chronoburst as being played by shorts deserves respect. But most mesmer builds since the rework are just flat out braindead.

> > >

> > > Mesmer still has a meta build to play. Chronobunk scepter is still very much an S+-tier build. There are some classes out there that barely have an A-tier build. People need to learn to stop being so entitled when it comes to their class and look around. You will find that almost every class in the game has a spec or two that is considered trash. Renegade has been trash tier since release. Berserker has been demoted to PvE farming spec for how long? Core ele LMAO. Core engie LMAO. DH ? Farm. Staff DD? Farm.

> >

> > Except what you call the biggest buff in gw history is more of a nerf.

> > Some phantasm skills became trash (staff, focus), some have now one of the biggest windups in game (torch), some can be avoided by a single sidestep (sword), and to add to that, shatters and burst became much slower since you have to wait for the phantasm conversion.

> >

> > The only thing you can consider a buff is the visual clutter, which no mesmer gives a rat's kitten about because finding the real mesmer isn't an issue since 2012.

>

> Phantasm rework was only a nerf for people in silver/bronze/low gold where people would just let phantasms do their thing.

>

> As for 1500-1800 rated, we all got to enjoy chronobunk becoming literal SSS+ tier and 15k phantasmal disenchants _with paladins_. Being reworked into one powerful attack that then funneled into clones is much more useful against decent players than an ineffective illusion that took up a clone spot. It's also not so much the visual clutter, but the fact that so many illusions soaking up damage means many skills will naturally deal less damage to you, regardless of whether or not they can find the real mesmer as any half decent player has zero problems doing that. If you read skill descriptions you will notice most have a limit of affected targets to either 3 or 5, meaning with 5-9 illusions on screen you can pad off most skills simply by mindlessly spamming illusion skills like a maniac.

>

It was in the past and literally every phantasm recieved 50% damage nerf and utility phantasm got also 50% cooldown increase . Disenchanter never crit for 15k ,especially with paladins.

There WAS visual clutter because signet recharged full cooldown and then they mindlessly spammed phantasm with split and whatnot

'9 illusions' is a myth after nerfing healing signet and BS that clones ever prevented real one with just target limit

[Master Ketsu.4569]

> @"Odik.4587" said:

> > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said:

> > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said:

> > > > The only thing wrong with the patch is it overbuffed scrapper to the point where it shifted the entire meta since any team comp must now have a way to cope with it or else be considered a bad comp.

> > > >

> > > > Complaining about Mesmer nerfs is just silly. The class received the single biggest buff ( Phantasm rework ) since the history of all Guild Wars buffs ( Yes, including GW1 ). This buff occurred at a time when Mirage was already considered a top meta build. Literally every good player I know has been saying the class is broken for over a year now. Here is the truth: The rework made it so Mesmer is now a class of which its core design is to basically spam defenses while AI does the work for it. This is a low risk, high reward, non-interactive, lazy playstyle. There are some good and interactive mesmer builds, like Chronoburst as being played by shorts deserves respect. But most mesmer builds since the rework are just flat out braindead.

> > > >

> > > > Mesmer still has a meta build to play. Chronobunk scepter is still very much an S+-tier build. There are some classes out there that barely have an A-tier build. People need to learn to stop being so entitled when it comes to their class and look around. You will find that almost every class in the game has a spec or two that is considered trash. Renegade has been trash tier since release. Berserker has been demoted to PvE farming spec for how long? Core ele LMAO. Core engie LMAO. DH ? Farm. Staff DD? Farm.

> > >

> > > Except what you call the biggest buff in gw history is more of a nerf.

> > > Some phantasm skills became trash (staff, focus), some have now one of the biggest windups in game (torch), some can be avoided by a single sidestep (sword), and to add to that, shatters and burst became much slower since you have to wait for the phantasm conversion.

> > >

> > > The only thing you can consider a buff is the visual clutter, which no mesmer gives a rat's kitten about because finding the real mesmer isn't an issue since 2012.

> >

> > Phantasm rework was only a nerf for people in silver/bronze/low gold where people would just let phantasms do their thing.

> >

> > As for 1500-1800 rated, we all got to enjoy chronobunk becoming literal SSS+ tier and 15k phantasmal disenchants _with paladins_. Being reworked into one powerful attack that then funneled into clones is much more useful against decent players than an ineffective illusion that took up a clone spot. It's also not so much the visual clutter, but the fact that so many illusions soaking up damage means many skills will naturally deal less damage to you, regardless of whether or not they can find the real mesmer as any half decent player has zero problems doing that. If you read skill descriptions you will notice most have a limit of affected targets to either 3 or 5, meaning with 5-9 illusions on screen you can pad off most skills simply by mindlessly spamming illusion skills like a maniac.

> >

> It was in the past and literally every phantasm recieved 50% damage nerf and utility phantasm got also 50% cooldown increase .

 

Well yeah it was in the past and did recieve some proper nerfs. Chronobunk now is much more balanced and noticeably less monkey than when released.

 

But the guy I was replying to was trying to say the phantasm rework was a nerf, which it absolutely was not. If anything, the rework has been a catalyst for nerf after nerf after nerf. How many patches in a row has mesmer been nerfed? And it still has a viable S-tier meta build? That really goes to show just how objectively wrong anyone is if they try to call the rework a downgrade.

 

[Odik.4587]

> @"Master Ketsu.4569" said:

> > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said:

> > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > > > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said:

> > > > > The only thing wrong with the patch is it overbuffed scrapper to the point where it shifted the entire meta since any team comp must now have a way to cope with it or else be considered a bad comp.

> > > > >

> > > > > Complaining about Mesmer nerfs is just silly. The class received the single biggest buff ( Phantasm rework ) since the history of all Guild Wars buffs ( Yes, including GW1 ). This buff occurred at a time when Mirage was already considered a top meta build. Literally every good player I know has been saying the class is broken for over a year now. Here is the truth: The rework made it so Mesmer is now a class of which its core design is to basically spam defenses while AI does the work for it. This is a low risk, high reward, non-interactive, lazy playstyle. There are some good and interactive mesmer builds, like Chronoburst as being played by shorts deserves respect. But most mesmer builds since the rework are just flat out braindead.

> > > > >

> > > > > Mesmer still has a meta build to play. Chronobunk scepter is still very much an S+-tier build. There are some classes out there that barely have an A-tier build. People need to learn to stop being so entitled when it comes to their class and look around. You will find that almost every class in the game has a spec or two that is considered trash. Renegade has been trash tier since release. Berserker has been demoted to PvE farming spec for how long? Core ele LMAO. Core engie LMAO. DH ? Farm. Staff DD? Farm.

> > > >

> > > > Except what you call the biggest buff in gw history is more of a nerf.

> > > > Some phantasm skills became trash (staff, focus), some have now one of the biggest windups in game (torch), some can be avoided by a single sidestep (sword), and to add to that, shatters and burst became much slower since you have to wait for the phantasm conversion.

> > > >

> > > > The only thing you can consider a buff is the visual clutter, which no mesmer gives a rat's kitten about because finding the real mesmer isn't an issue since 2012.

> > >

> > > Phantasm rework was only a nerf for people in silver/bronze/low gold where people would just let phantasms do their thing.

> > >

> > > As for 1500-1800 rated, we all got to enjoy chronobunk becoming literal SSS+ tier and 15k phantasmal disenchants _with paladins_. Being reworked into one powerful attack that then funneled into clones is much more useful against decent players than an ineffective illusion that took up a clone spot. It's also not so much the visual clutter, but the fact that so many illusions soaking up damage means many skills will naturally deal less damage to you, regardless of whether or not they can find the real mesmer as any half decent player has zero problems doing that. If you read skill descriptions you will notice most have a limit of affected targets to either 3 or 5, meaning with 5-9 illusions on screen you can pad off most skills simply by mindlessly spamming illusion skills like a maniac.

> > >

> > It was in the past and literally every phantasm recieved 50% damage nerf and utility phantasm got also 50% cooldown increase .

>

> Well yeah it was in the past and did recieve some proper nerfs. Chronobunk now is much more balanced and noticeably less monkey than when released.

>

> But the guy I was replying to was trying to say the phantasm rework was a nerf, which it absolutely was not. If anything, the rework has been a catalyst for nerf after nerf after nerf. How many patches in a row has mesmer been nerfed? And it still has a viable S-tier meta build? That really goes to show just how objectively wrong anyone is if they try to call the rework a downgrade.

>

 

It was a nerf to power burst as you cant shatter it right away as we used to . This rework caused a lot of unnecessary dumb nerfs ,not a proper ones, every single patch driven by clueless ppl. The only thing I can say about rework it made fighting mesmer more annoying but resolved conflicting mechanics in pve. I'm not sure if I like this rework

Your viable 's tier meta build' is nothing but carried by scepter bulls*t that solely make mesmer viable feat chaos traitline

[Snellibee.2761]

> @"whoknocks.4935" said:

> > @"Snellibee.2761" said:

> > > @"Quadox.7834" said:

> > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said:

> > > > Thing is if Condi Mirage is so bad like you say why are so many people wanting to have it nerfed? Why are there so many people saying it is completely OP? Why isn't ele being called op and in need of nerfs? And why aren't there any threads about Revenant being OP beside your own?

> > > >

> > > > You need to realize by now that you're the ONLY one with your vision and mindset. Everybody else thinks different. If 90% of the population thinks that Condi Mirage was OP then it's pretty likely that Condi Mirage is OP.

> > > >

> > > > You're also really the only one complaining about Revenant, I honestly don't understand how you're this high ranked but you're getting wiped by a +1 class especially when Condi Mirage is like a direct counter against Revenants.

> > >

> > > Last paragraph isn't really true, there are complaints about rev on higher level. It is certainly very very strong right now. On forums/reddit the median rank is probably gold so different kinds of complaints come to light.

> >

> > All high elo players I've talked to and streamers like Sindrener have never said that Rev is broken in any way. In fact they mention how hard it is to play and to disengage from fights you can't win and how it relies so hard on support to really shine.

> >

> > Theres no doubt that Revenant is strong in the right hands, but calling it broken is absolutely absurd. There is no way you should lose to a Revenant 1v1 unless you're another dps spec like Reaper. Holosmith has an edge over Revenant, Mirage has an edge over Revenant, Warrior has an edge over Revenant, Thief has an edge over Revenant, Soulbeast has an edge over Revenant. Weaver is a trash spec but anything has an edge over a Weaver. The only classes that can die 1v1 against a Revenant without being seriously outplayed are Reaper, Core Guardian, Sick'em Ranger because all these classes are DPS' themself.

> >

> > Besides, Holosmith and Warrior can nearly to as much damage as Revenants can and they're considered duelers. I sometimes play Spellbreaker and my Arcing Slice regulary hits for 8-9k. Basically all my attacks do high damage. And we all know how much damage Holosmiths can do with the sustain they have. Does that seem right?

> >

> > Revenant rewards people for timing. If you can't time your dodges, your block and Infused Light, you're dead. If you can't time your bursts (wich mainly exist on sword OH) you'll most likely not win the fight because you don't have the sustain to keep that fight up long enough to burst again. Revenant is one of the few classes that don't give you a "I kitten up but it doesn't matter" button to save your life when you made a mistake. It also doesn't give you a passive to save your life when you weren't paying attention and an enemy tried to burst you and take advantage of it. Let's not forget that whilst needing to pay attention to your endurance and cooldowns, you also need to pay attention to energy usage. it's just another mechanic they indroduced to Revenant that requires you to pay more attention than any other class.

> >

> > So many classes have such a simple design and are so forgiving to play. Revenant isn't one of those and requires constant attention and concentration.

>

> Dude, in 1vs1 warrior vs revenant, this is the easiest matchup for a revenant and you can 100-0 a warrior with ease.

> Even in WvW duels where the warrior is not that nerfed as in sPvP (megabane etc.) you can see how it's a stupidly easy matchup.

> Revenant is trash only against condis, but is one of the strongest specs to deal with power specs if you smart use your blocks evades and kiting things.

> Revenant is no more the high skilled spec it was at the beginning, now it's fairly easy mode and easy to do good with, especially for veteran players even if it's not their main.

 

You clearly have never played Revenant. A warrior with the same skill as a Revenant will easily take care of any Revenant. I know this because I occasionally play my spellbreaker wich I have very limited hours on, but I barely lose against a Revenant in 1v1. It is extremely easy to counter Revenants as Warrior. If you do not see this it's really just a l2p issue here

[Snellibee.2761]

> @"BlackTruth.6813" said:

> The ONLY time revenant is a hard class is if you try to go full dedicated healer with dwarf + ventari menders amulet, because you have to actually micro manage A LOT. Sad that it isn't viably balanced. DPS rev was always braindead, sure it got hard countered by conditions but it's an obnoxious evade spam class as a DPS even at beginning and now, just without a pet.

>

> Definitely a lesser evil than Mesmer and Ranger because no phantasms or AI and it has to dodge bait by itself, but the blind spam, evade spam, with mobility just makes it a Guardian but pretty much just as ez mode + mobility. Not really a skill shot class like grenade engi back in the day after slick shoes nerf.

>

> P.S When you have superspeed and evade spam, WARRIOR DOESN'T COUNTER YOU (yes by that logic even scrapper is a skill match up vs. Warrior assuming that superspeed is USED TO DODGE WARRIOR because super speed CAN outrun Warrior damage)

 

Ehhh rank?

Since when does rev have blind spam? Also are you forgetting all the leaps and gap closers warriors have to deal with this? Sword 2 or dagger 2, gs 5, shield 4, Bull's charge, Dagger F1. You also have megabane tether to keep the Revenant close to you or to pull him down.

 

I swear people expect to just press buttons against a class they should counter without needing to put any effort in and win, lazy ass casuals

 

Warrior is atleast twice as braindead as Revenant btw. You literally don't have do think about anything. You have passive healing so no need to heal yourself. Your skills have low as fuck cooldowns, you have a 4s CD on weapon swap, you don't need to switch between attunemnts you always have everything you need, you literally have a win button elite skill that will make you win any duel you were losing, you deal high damage while still being tanky as fuck. How can you say warrior is harder to play than revenant? lmao

[Odik.4587]

> @"Snellibee.2761" said:

> > @"whoknocks.4935" said:

> > > @"Snellibee.2761" said:

> > > > @"Quadox.7834" said:

> > > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said:

> > > > > Thing is if Condi Mirage is so bad like you say why are so many people wanting to have it nerfed? Why are there so many people saying it is completely OP? Why isn't ele being called op and in need of nerfs? And why aren't there any threads about Revenant being OP beside your own?

> > > > >

> > > > > You need to realize by now that you're the ONLY one with your vision and mindset. Everybody else thinks different. If 90% of the population thinks that Condi Mirage was OP then it's pretty likely that Condi Mirage is OP.

> > > > >

> > > > > You're also really the only one complaining about Revenant, I honestly don't understand how you're this high ranked but you're getting wiped by a +1 class especially when Condi Mirage is like a direct counter against Revenants.

> > > >

> > > > Last paragraph isn't really true, there are complaints about rev on higher level. It is certainly very very strong right now. On forums/reddit the median rank is probably gold so different kinds of complaints come to light.

> > >

> > > All high elo players I've talked to and streamers like Sindrener have never said that Rev is broken in any way. In fact they mention how hard it is to play and to disengage from fights you can't win and how it relies so hard on support to really shine.

> > >

> > > Theres no doubt that Revenant is strong in the right hands, but calling it broken is absolutely absurd. There is no way you should lose to a Revenant 1v1 unless you're another dps spec like Reaper. Holosmith has an edge over Revenant, Mirage has an edge over Revenant, Warrior has an edge over Revenant, Thief has an edge over Revenant, Soulbeast has an edge over Revenant. Weaver is a trash spec but anything has an edge over a Weaver. The only classes that can die 1v1 against a Revenant without being seriously outplayed are Reaper, Core Guardian, Sick'em Ranger because all these classes are DPS' themself.

> > >

> > > Besides, Holosmith and Warrior can nearly to as much damage as Revenants can and they're considered duelers. I sometimes play Spellbreaker and my Arcing Slice regulary hits for 8-9k. Basically all my attacks do high damage. And we all know how much damage Holosmiths can do with the sustain they have. Does that seem right?

> > >

> > > Revenant rewards people for timing. If you can't time your dodges, your block and Infused Light, you're dead. If you can't time your bursts (wich mainly exist on sword OH) you'll most likely not win the fight because you don't have the sustain to keep that fight up long enough to burst again. Revenant is one of the few classes that don't give you a "I kitten up but it doesn't matter" button to save your life when you made a mistake. It also doesn't give you a passive to save your life when you weren't paying attention and an enemy tried to burst you and take advantage of it. Let's not forget that whilst needing to pay attention to your endurance and cooldowns, you also need to pay attention to energy usage. it's just another mechanic they indroduced to Revenant that requires you to pay more attention than any other class.

> > >

> > > So many classes have such a simple design and are so forgiving to play. Revenant isn't one of those and requires constant attention and concentration.

> >

> > Dude, in 1vs1 warrior vs revenant, this is the easiest matchup for a revenant and you can 100-0 a warrior with ease.

> > Even in WvW duels where the warrior is not that nerfed as in sPvP (megabane etc.) you can see how it's a stupidly easy matchup.

> > Revenant is trash only against condis, but is one of the strongest specs to deal with power specs if you smart use your blocks evades and kiting things.

> > Revenant is no more the high skilled spec it was at the beginning, now it's fairly easy mode and easy to do good with, especially for veteran players even if it's not their main.

>

> You clearly have never played Revenant. A warrior with the same skill as a Revenant will easily take care of any Revenant. I know this because I occasionally play my spellbreaker wich I have very limited hours on, but I barely lose against a Revenant in 1v1. It is extremely easy to counter Revenants as Warrior. If you do not see this it's really just a l2p issue here

 

Magebane warrior been losing to revs in 1x1 from my memory even pre nerf on FC/tether. At least certain 'top warrior' been farmed by various rev many many times xD

(not like I care too much who is more braindead)

[apharma.3741]

> @"Odik.4587" said:

> > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said:

> > > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > > > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said:

> > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > > > > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said:

> > > > > > The only thing wrong with the patch is it overbuffed scrapper to the point where it shifted the entire meta since any team comp must now have a way to cope with it or else be considered a bad comp.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Complaining about Mesmer nerfs is just silly. The class received the single biggest buff ( Phantasm rework ) since the history of all Guild Wars buffs ( Yes, including GW1 ). This buff occurred at a time when Mirage was already considered a top meta build. Literally every good player I know has been saying the class is broken for over a year now. Here is the truth: The rework made it so Mesmer is now a class of which its core design is to basically spam defenses while AI does the work for it. This is a low risk, high reward, non-interactive, lazy playstyle. There are some good and interactive mesmer builds, like Chronoburst as being played by shorts deserves respect. But most mesmer builds since the rework are just flat out braindead.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Mesmer still has a meta build to play. Chronobunk scepter is still very much an S+-tier build. There are some classes out there that barely have an A-tier build. People need to learn to stop being so entitled when it comes to their class and look around. You will find that almost every class in the game has a spec or two that is considered trash. Renegade has been trash tier since release. Berserker has been demoted to PvE farming spec for how long? Core ele LMAO. Core engie LMAO. DH ? Farm. Staff DD? Farm.

> > > > >

> > > > > Except what you call the biggest buff in gw history is more of a nerf.

> > > > > Some phantasm skills became trash (staff, focus), some have now one of the biggest windups in game (torch), some can be avoided by a single sidestep (sword), and to add to that, shatters and burst became much slower since you have to wait for the phantasm conversion.

> > > > >

> > > > > The only thing you can consider a buff is the visual clutter, which no mesmer gives a rat's kitten about because finding the real mesmer isn't an issue since 2012.

> > > >

> > > > Phantasm rework was only a nerf for people in silver/bronze/low gold where people would just let phantasms do their thing.

> > > >

> > > > As for 1500-1800 rated, we all got to enjoy chronobunk becoming literal SSS+ tier and 15k phantasmal disenchants _with paladins_. Being reworked into one powerful attack that then funneled into clones is much more useful against decent players than an ineffective illusion that took up a clone spot. It's also not so much the visual clutter, but the fact that so many illusions soaking up damage means many skills will naturally deal less damage to you, regardless of whether or not they can find the real mesmer as any half decent player has zero problems doing that. If you read skill descriptions you will notice most have a limit of affected targets to either 3 or 5, meaning with 5-9 illusions on screen you can pad off most skills simply by mindlessly spamming illusion skills like a maniac.

> > > >

> > > It was in the past and literally every phantasm recieved 50% damage nerf and utility phantasm got also 50% cooldown increase .

> >

> > Well yeah it was in the past and did recieve some proper nerfs. Chronobunk now is much more balanced and noticeably less monkey than when released.

> >

> > But the guy I was replying to was trying to say the phantasm rework was a nerf, which it absolutely was not. If anything, the rework has been a catalyst for nerf after nerf after nerf. How many patches in a row has mesmer been nerfed? And it still has a viable S-tier meta build? That really goes to show just how objectively wrong anyone is if they try to call the rework a downgrade.

> >

>

> It was a nerf to power burst as you cant shatter it right away as we used to . This rework caused a lot of unnecessary dumb nerfs ,not a proper ones, every single patch driven by clueless ppl. The only thing I can say about rework it made fighting mesmer more annoying but resolved conflicting mechanics in pve. I'm not sure if I like this rework

> Your viable 's tier meta build' is nothing but carried by scepter bulls*t that solely make mesmer viable feat chaos traitline

 

Yes the phantasm rework did delay the ability to set up a high clone shatter or telegraph it, I don't think that's a bad thing in some ways as it makes the upfront damage easier to adjust if you change the scaling of 1, 2, and 3 clone shatters. I still would rather we had no phantasms as it's more clutter that can stack up and they're still not affected by loads of damage boosts.

 

I wonder how long and how many casualties before scepter is preferably reworked to not be clunky and not be stupidly strong.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

> @"Master Ketsu.4569" said:

> > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said:

> > > The only thing wrong with the patch is it overbuffed scrapper to the point where it shifted the entire meta since any team comp must now have a way to cope with it or else be considered a bad comp.

> > >

> > > Complaining about Mesmer nerfs is just silly. The class received the single biggest buff ( Phantasm rework ) since the history of all Guild Wars buffs ( Yes, including GW1 ). This buff occurred at a time when Mirage was already considered a top meta build. Literally every good player I know has been saying the class is broken for over a year now. Here is the truth: The rework made it so Mesmer is now a class of which its core design is to basically spam defenses while AI does the work for it. This is a low risk, high reward, non-interactive, lazy playstyle. There are some good and interactive mesmer builds, like Chronoburst as being played by shorts deserves respect. But most mesmer builds since the rework are just flat out braindead.

> > >

> > > Mesmer still has a meta build to play. Chronobunk scepter is still very much an S+-tier build. There are some classes out there that barely have an A-tier build. People need to learn to stop being so entitled when it comes to their class and look around. You will find that almost every class in the game has a spec or two that is considered trash. Renegade has been trash tier since release. Berserker has been demoted to PvE farming spec for how long? Core ele LMAO. Core engie LMAO. DH ? Farm. Staff DD? Farm.

> >

> > Except what you call the biggest buff in gw history is more of a nerf.

> > Some phantasm skills became trash (staff, focus), some have now one of the biggest windups in game (torch), some can be avoided by a single sidestep (sword), and to add to that, shatters and burst became much slower since you have to wait for the phantasm conversion.

> >

> > The only thing you can consider a buff is the visual clutter, which no mesmer gives a rat's kitten about because finding the real mesmer isn't an issue since 2012.

>

> Phantasm rework was only a nerf for people in silver/bronze/low gold where people would just let phantasms do their thing and never could tell which mesmer was real anyways.

>

> As for 1500-1800 rated, we all got to enjoy chronobunk becoming literal SSS+ tier and 15k phantasmal disenchants _with paladins_. Being reworked into one powerful attack that then funneled into clones is much more useful against decent players than an ineffective illusion that took up a clone spot. It's also not so much the visual clutter, but the fact that so many illusions soaking up damage means many skills will naturally deal less damage to you, regardless of whether or not they can find the real mesmer as any half decent player has zero problems doing that. If you read skill descriptions you will notice most have a limit of affected targets to either 3 or 5, or have damage split/reduced when multiple targets are available. This means with 5-9 illusions on screen you can negate a ton of DPS coming your way simply by mindlessly spamming illusion skills like a maniac. It was not a good change for the game and did nothing more than change mesmer from one of the most skill intensive classes into a complete monkey class.

 

Phantasmal Disechanter was only good on silver/bronze/low gold where people attacked the phantasm and stayed in it's tiny radius until he blowed up.

And let's not forget May nerfs on chronobunker.

 

And as I said all phantasms became trash, except for gs which is the same, duelist which no one cares, and avenger. Staff, sword, torch, focus are awful now.

Self-deception jaunt burst was killed, illusionary reversion which was already awful became even worse. Shatter was crippled with the patch.

That patch was made for pve and was only good for it.

[Odik.4587]

> @"apharma.3741" said:

> > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said:

> > > > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > > > > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said:

> > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > > > > > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said:

> > > > > > > The only thing wrong with the patch is it overbuffed scrapper to the point where it shifted the entire meta since any team comp must now have a way to cope with it or else be considered a bad comp.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Complaining about Mesmer nerfs is just silly. The class received the single biggest buff ( Phantasm rework ) since the history of all Guild Wars buffs ( Yes, including GW1 ). This buff occurred at a time when Mirage was already considered a top meta build. Literally every good player I know has been saying the class is broken for over a year now. Here is the truth: The rework made it so Mesmer is now a class of which its core design is to basically spam defenses while AI does the work for it. This is a low risk, high reward, non-interactive, lazy playstyle. There are some good and interactive mesmer builds, like Chronoburst as being played by shorts deserves respect. But most mesmer builds since the rework are just flat out braindead.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Mesmer still has a meta build to play. Chronobunk scepter is still very much an S+-tier build. There are some classes out there that barely have an A-tier build. People need to learn to stop being so entitled when it comes to their class and look around. You will find that almost every class in the game has a spec or two that is considered trash. Renegade has been trash tier since release. Berserker has been demoted to PvE farming spec for how long? Core ele LMAO. Core engie LMAO. DH ? Farm. Staff DD? Farm.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Except what you call the biggest buff in gw history is more of a nerf.

> > > > > > Some phantasm skills became trash (staff, focus), some have now one of the biggest windups in game (torch), some can be avoided by a single sidestep (sword), and to add to that, shatters and burst became much slower since you have to wait for the phantasm conversion.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The only thing you can consider a buff is the visual clutter, which no mesmer gives a rat's kitten about because finding the real mesmer isn't an issue since 2012.

> > > > >

> > > > > Phantasm rework was only a nerf for people in silver/bronze/low gold where people would just let phantasms do their thing.

> > > > >

> > > > > As for 1500-1800 rated, we all got to enjoy chronobunk becoming literal SSS+ tier and 15k phantasmal disenchants _with paladins_. Being reworked into one powerful attack that then funneled into clones is much more useful against decent players than an ineffective illusion that took up a clone spot. It's also not so much the visual clutter, but the fact that so many illusions soaking up damage means many skills will naturally deal less damage to you, regardless of whether or not they can find the real mesmer as any half decent player has zero problems doing that. If you read skill descriptions you will notice most have a limit of affected targets to either 3 or 5, meaning with 5-9 illusions on screen you can pad off most skills simply by mindlessly spamming illusion skills like a maniac.

> > > > >

> > > > It was in the past and literally every phantasm recieved 50% damage nerf and utility phantasm got also 50% cooldown increase .

> > >

> > > Well yeah it was in the past and did recieve some proper nerfs. Chronobunk now is much more balanced and noticeably less monkey than when released.

> > >

> > > But the guy I was replying to was trying to say the phantasm rework was a nerf, which it absolutely was not. If anything, the rework has been a catalyst for nerf after nerf after nerf. How many patches in a row has mesmer been nerfed? And it still has a viable S-tier meta build? That really goes to show just how objectively wrong anyone is if they try to call the rework a downgrade.

> > >

> >

> > It was a nerf to power burst as you cant shatter it right away as we used to . This rework caused a lot of unnecessary dumb nerfs ,not a proper ones, every single patch driven by clueless ppl. The only thing I can say about rework it made fighting mesmer more annoying but resolved conflicting mechanics in pve. I'm not sure if I like this rework

> > Your viable 's tier meta build' is nothing but carried by scepter bulls*t that solely make mesmer viable feat chaos traitline

>

> Yes the phantasm rework did delay the ability to set up a high clone shatter or telegraph it, I don't think that's a bad thing in some ways as it makes the upfront damage easier to adjust if you change the scaling of 1, 2, and 3 clone shatters. I still would rather we had no phantasms as it's more clutter that can stack up and they're still not affected by loads of damage boosts.

>

> I wonder how long and how many casualties before scepter is preferably reworked to not be clunky and not be stupidly strong.

 

Since we have to deal with A N E T I bet they nerf everything but not scepter as they balance mesmer for last year ?

[Quadox.7834]

> @"apharma.3741" said:

> > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said:

> > > > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > > > > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said:

> > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > > > > > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said:

> > > > > > > The only thing wrong with the patch is it overbuffed scrapper to the point where it shifted the entire meta since any team comp must now have a way to cope with it or else be considered a bad comp.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Complaining about Mesmer nerfs is just silly. The class received the single biggest buff ( Phantasm rework ) since the history of all Guild Wars buffs ( Yes, including GW1 ). This buff occurred at a time when Mirage was already considered a top meta build. Literally every good player I know has been saying the class is broken for over a year now. Here is the truth: The rework made it so Mesmer is now a class of which its core design is to basically spam defenses while AI does the work for it. This is a low risk, high reward, non-interactive, lazy playstyle. There are some good and interactive mesmer builds, like Chronoburst as being played by shorts deserves respect. But most mesmer builds since the rework are just flat out braindead.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Mesmer still has a meta build to play. Chronobunk scepter is still very much an S+-tier build. There are some classes out there that barely have an A-tier build. People need to learn to stop being so entitled when it comes to their class and look around. You will find that almost every class in the game has a spec or two that is considered trash. Renegade has been trash tier since release. Berserker has been demoted to PvE farming spec for how long? Core ele LMAO. Core engie LMAO. DH ? Farm. Staff DD? Farm.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Except what you call the biggest buff in gw history is more of a nerf.

> > > > > > Some phantasm skills became trash (staff, focus), some have now one of the biggest windups in game (torch), some can be avoided by a single sidestep (sword), and to add to that, shatters and burst became much slower since you have to wait for the phantasm conversion.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The only thing you can consider a buff is the visual clutter, which no mesmer gives a rat's kitten about because finding the real mesmer isn't an issue since 2012.

> > > > >

> > > > > Phantasm rework was only a nerf for people in silver/bronze/low gold where people would just let phantasms do their thing.

> > > > >

> > > > > As for 1500-1800 rated, we all got to enjoy chronobunk becoming literal SSS+ tier and 15k phantasmal disenchants _with paladins_. Being reworked into one powerful attack that then funneled into clones is much more useful against decent players than an ineffective illusion that took up a clone spot. It's also not so much the visual clutter, but the fact that so many illusions soaking up damage means many skills will naturally deal less damage to you, regardless of whether or not they can find the real mesmer as any half decent player has zero problems doing that. If you read skill descriptions you will notice most have a limit of affected targets to either 3 or 5, meaning with 5-9 illusions on screen you can pad off most skills simply by mindlessly spamming illusion skills like a maniac.

> > > > >

> > > > It was in the past and literally every phantasm recieved 50% damage nerf and utility phantasm got also 50% cooldown increase .

> > >

> > > Well yeah it was in the past and did recieve some proper nerfs. Chronobunk now is much more balanced and noticeably less monkey than when released.

> > >

> > > But the guy I was replying to was trying to say the phantasm rework was a nerf, which it absolutely was not. If anything, the rework has been a catalyst for nerf after nerf after nerf. How many patches in a row has mesmer been nerfed? And it still has a viable S-tier meta build? That really goes to show just how objectively wrong anyone is if they try to call the rework a downgrade.

> > >

> >

> > It was a nerf to power burst as you cant shatter it right away as we used to . This rework caused a lot of unnecessary dumb nerfs ,not a proper ones, every single patch driven by clueless ppl. The only thing I can say about rework it made fighting mesmer more annoying but resolved conflicting mechanics in pve. I'm not sure if I like this rework

> > Your viable 's tier meta build' is nothing but carried by scepter bulls*t that solely make mesmer viable feat chaos traitline

>

> Yes the phantasm rework did delay the ability to set up a high clone shatter or telegraph it, I don't think that's a bad thing in some ways as it makes the upfront damage easier to adjust if you change the scaling of 1, 2, and 3 clone shatters. I still would rather we had no phantasms as it's more clutter that can stack up and they're still not affected by loads of damage boosts.

>

> I wonder how long and how many casualties before scepter is preferably reworked to not be clunky and not be stupidly strong.

 

After 6 years I have no hopes for scepter to not be clunky :/

[Quadox.7834]

> @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said:

> > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said:

> > > > The only thing wrong with the patch is it overbuffed scrapper to the point where it shifted the entire meta since any team comp must now have a way to cope with it or else be considered a bad comp.

> > > >

> > > > Complaining about Mesmer nerfs is just silly. The class received the single biggest buff ( Phantasm rework ) since the history of all Guild Wars buffs ( Yes, including GW1 ). This buff occurred at a time when Mirage was already considered a top meta build. Literally every good player I know has been saying the class is broken for over a year now. Here is the truth: The rework made it so Mesmer is now a class of which its core design is to basically spam defenses while AI does the work for it. This is a low risk, high reward, non-interactive, lazy playstyle. There are some good and interactive mesmer builds, like Chronoburst as being played by shorts deserves respect. But most mesmer builds since the rework are just flat out braindead.

> > > >

> > > > Mesmer still has a meta build to play. Chronobunk scepter is still very much an S+-tier build. There are some classes out there that barely have an A-tier build. People need to learn to stop being so entitled when it comes to their class and look around. You will find that almost every class in the game has a spec or two that is considered trash. Renegade has been trash tier since release. Berserker has been demoted to PvE farming spec for how long? Core ele LMAO. Core engie LMAO. DH ? Farm. Staff DD? Farm.

> > >

> > > Except what you call the biggest buff in gw history is more of a nerf.

> > > Some phantasm skills became trash (staff, focus), some have now one of the biggest windups in game (torch), some can be avoided by a single sidestep (sword), and to add to that, shatters and burst became much slower since you have to wait for the phantasm conversion.

> > >

> > > The only thing you can consider a buff is the visual clutter, which no mesmer gives a rat's kitten about because finding the real mesmer isn't an issue since 2012.

> >

> > Phantasm rework was only a nerf for people in silver/bronze/low gold where people would just let phantasms do their thing and never could tell which mesmer was real anyways.

> >

> > As for 1500-1800 rated, we all got to enjoy chronobunk becoming literal SSS+ tier and 15k phantasmal disenchants _with paladins_. Being reworked into one powerful attack that then funneled into clones is much more useful against decent players than an ineffective illusion that took up a clone spot. It's also not so much the visual clutter, but the fact that so many illusions soaking up damage means many skills will naturally deal less damage to you, regardless of whether or not they can find the real mesmer as any half decent player has zero problems doing that. If you read skill descriptions you will notice most have a limit of affected targets to either 3 or 5, or have damage split/reduced when multiple targets are available. This means with 5-9 illusions on screen you can negate a ton of DPS coming your way simply by mindlessly spamming illusion skills like a maniac. It was not a good change for the game and did nothing more than change mesmer from one of the most skill intensive classes into a complete monkey class.

>

> Phantasmal Disechanter was only good on silver/bronze/low gold where people attacked the phantasm and stayed in it's tiny radius until he blowed up.

> And let's not forget May nerfs on chronobunker.

You thinking of phantasmal defender?

>

> And as I said all phantasms became trash, except for gs which is the same, duelist which no one cares, and avenger. Staff, sword, torch, focus are awful now.

Focus is better for 1v1. Torch was also trash before.

> Self-deception jaunt burst was killed, illusionary reversion which was already awful became even worse. Shatter was crippled with the patch.

> That patch was made for pve and was only good for it.

Yep, it was a PvE patch.

[LolLookAtMyAP.8394]

> @"Yannir.4132" said:

> > @"incisorr.9502" said:

> >

> > facts are

> >

> > Not a single mirage played in the monthly AT top 8

> >

> > xd

> >

> > mirage wasn't good even on the last patch yet it got nerfed again, you talk about facts but you ignore the facts that don't fit your narrative, how does that even work?

>

> There were in fact several mirages on the NA monthly. One of which was in the winning team.

 

AND he was power Mirage who ran a Focus.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

> @"Quadox.7834" said:

> > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said:

> > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > > > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said:

> > > > > The only thing wrong with the patch is it overbuffed scrapper to the point where it shifted the entire meta since any team comp must now have a way to cope with it or else be considered a bad comp.

> > > > >

> > > > > Complaining about Mesmer nerfs is just silly. The class received the single biggest buff ( Phantasm rework ) since the history of all Guild Wars buffs ( Yes, including GW1 ). This buff occurred at a time when Mirage was already considered a top meta build. Literally every good player I know has been saying the class is broken for over a year now. Here is the truth: The rework made it so Mesmer is now a class of which its core design is to basically spam defenses while AI does the work for it. This is a low risk, high reward, non-interactive, lazy playstyle. There are some good and interactive mesmer builds, like Chronoburst as being played by shorts deserves respect. But most mesmer builds since the rework are just flat out braindead.

> > > > >

> > > > > Mesmer still has a meta build to play. Chronobunk scepter is still very much an S+-tier build. There are some classes out there that barely have an A-tier build. People need to learn to stop being so entitled when it comes to their class and look around. You will find that almost every class in the game has a spec or two that is considered trash. Renegade has been trash tier since release. Berserker has been demoted to PvE farming spec for how long? Core ele LMAO. Core engie LMAO. DH ? Farm. Staff DD? Farm.

> > > >

> > > > Except what you call the biggest buff in gw history is more of a nerf.

> > > > Some phantasm skills became trash (staff, focus), some have now one of the biggest windups in game (torch), some can be avoided by a single sidestep (sword), and to add to that, shatters and burst became much slower since you have to wait for the phantasm conversion.

> > > >

> > > > The only thing you can consider a buff is the visual clutter, which no mesmer gives a rat's kitten about because finding the real mesmer isn't an issue since 2012.

> > >

> > > Phantasm rework was only a nerf for people in silver/bronze/low gold where people would just let phantasms do their thing and never could tell which mesmer was real anyways.

> > >

> > > As for 1500-1800 rated, we all got to enjoy chronobunk becoming literal SSS+ tier and 15k phantasmal disenchants _with paladins_. Being reworked into one powerful attack that then funneled into clones is much more useful against decent players than an ineffective illusion that took up a clone spot. It's also not so much the visual clutter, but the fact that so many illusions soaking up damage means many skills will naturally deal less damage to you, regardless of whether or not they can find the real mesmer as any half decent player has zero problems doing that. If you read skill descriptions you will notice most have a limit of affected targets to either 3 or 5, or have damage split/reduced when multiple targets are available. This means with 5-9 illusions on screen you can negate a ton of DPS coming your way simply by mindlessly spamming illusion skills like a maniac. It was not a good change for the game and did nothing more than change mesmer from one of the most skill intensive classes into a complete monkey class.

> >

> > Phantasmal Disechanter was only good on silver/bronze/low gold where people attacked the phantasm and stayed in it's tiny radius until he blowed up.

> > And let's not forget May nerfs on chronobunker.

> You thinking of phantasmal defender?

> >

> > And as I said all phantasms became trash, except for gs which is the same, duelist which no one cares, and avenger. Staff, sword, torch, focus are awful now.

> Focus is better for 1v1. Torch was also trash before.

> > Self-deception jaunt burst was killed, illusionary reversion which was already awful became even worse. Shatter was crippled with the patch.

> > That patch was made for pve and was only good for it.

> Yep, it was a PvE patch.

 

Yeah my bad defender, disenchanter was good.

Focus 5 has no synergy with focus 4. Before you could make some nice damage with the right pull on 1vx.

[incisorr.9502]

people wanted mirage to get nerfed/deleted from the game and now we're in the absolutely worst meta there has ever been

 

reaper/scourge are unkillable now cus there's no more mirage, scrapper is annoying as hell and everyone is fotm rerolling warrior because they think it can cheese out some classes and ofcourse revenant is still op top

 

this meta is actually less diverse, there's less viable builds than before, there's no counterplay to the viable builds and on top of that it's a boring snoozefest with a bunch of cheese for dinner

 

never seen a developer that gives into peer pressure as much as arena net does , lmao, forum spams DO THIS and anet does that without even looking at statistics on high elo where people can actually play

 

imagine if you had an automatic car that can go up to 100km/h and a manual control car that could go up to 300km/h but you can't drive it properly so you say that the first car is faster because of your inability to control the better car. This is what it feels like when low elo players complain about pvp balance for the most part

 

 

[BadMed.3846]

Condi Mirage is still the most hated spec in game for a reason. Balance is required in lower tiers too to ensure people can't just press a few buttons to secure easy kills. For them to learn the combat, we don't need a Dark Souls opponent.

Delete Condi Mirage from game please if you can't nerf it properly.

[BadMed.3846]

> @"Rettan.9603" said:

> They should really add a filter to forum to hide all posts from people of Gold or below ranking -.-

 

Go start your own top 250 players' forum. Let's see how well it goes.

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

> @"incisorr.9502" said:

>

 

Yours so called "worst meta" is not something new because of recent mesmer nerfs, it's present since HoT release, mesmers are still in the game and they're still overtuned.

If you have problem with reaper or/and scourge as a Mesmer, I have bad news for you.

Scrapper rework is good on a paper, but A-net of course powercreeped it in the process like everything else for no reason (unnecessary phantasm rework~).

Warrior is unbalanced since 2012 and I would say that Thief is much better(broken) than Revenant (I still don't get why you think that rev is so OP when the only thing it does have is engage burst, it literally can't run away if he doesn't have targets to teleport).

Only reason why meta is less diverse is because of powercreep, they're buffing wrong stuff in a wrong way, buffs at this stage with 2 elite specs for each class should never ever cross their minds, they need to tune down everything, because Elite Specializations should never be a better versions of core classes, but an option.

IMO, conditions should be an addon, not a major source of damage since they cannot be balanced properly.

I've never seen a developer that powercreeps x-pack specializations/classes to gain sells for more than few months of it's release.

Let's be honest here, the stuff that was overperforming should be instantly nerfed to the ground within few weeks after release and then buff it slowly until it's on core tier power level, but what we have now? HoT and PoF still is much better option than core classes, to add salt to the injury, they buffed core traits for no reason making even bigger powercreep in the process.

 

"Automatic car that can go up to 300km/h" - That's how I see PoF and HoT elite specializations.

"Manual control car that could go up to 100km/h" - That's how I see core classes.

 

Just because you've got carried by unbalanced class into plat+, doesn't mean you can look down on other people that didn't cheese their way to the top.

Even if these people are in bronze division, they have the right to complain if something seems unbalanced one way or another.

The moment there will be no complains towards any part of the game, will be the moment people stopped caring about it, meaning game will die.