Small Scale Fighting WVWWVW - Yes or No? Why (Not)?

[Reverence.6915]

> @"LucasC.4016" said:

> I'm a new player and as such don't have loads of experience with wvw, but here's one wild idea: what if aoe skills could hit more targets?

>

> I mean, to promote small scale fights, zerging should be heavily punished in some way... And being able to hit only 5 players with aoe strongly encourages zerging, as players are _safer_ when tightly stacked in a blob.

>

> Some concerns with this idea:

> * wouldn't this get scourge damage just way too out of hand, more than it already is?

> * i've found an old forum post that mentions technical problems with this, as it could mean way too much information for the server to handle if 50 players are hitting the other 50 players each at the same time. That would have been the reason the cap exists in the first place.

> * defenders advantage would be greatly increased with this, as tight choke points could be exploited

>

>

> Well, consider this:

> - aoe damage could in deed get out of hand, _but only if players kept stacking tightly in a blob_. If they spread out, damage would be manageable

> - same goes for the server problems... _if players spread out_, there wouldn't be many situations of 50 players hitting 50 players each. Maybe in those choke points, sure, but not on open field.

> - as of what i've seen and heard, players don't defend structures that much anymore. And when they do, they are usually vastly outnumbered. This change would mean that a handful of players could actually stand a chance of defending against an enemy zerg. This encourages a more tactical approach to the fight (as good positioning and smart movement would be even more important) and makes way to a smaller team outwitting the opponent instead of battles being won by simply outnumbering your opponent. Also, it could encourage build diversity as the attacking zerg would greatly benefit from having a number of players dedicated to protecting the zerg when going through choke points, with barriers, reflects and such skills. And maybe dps elementalists would have a better place in the game as well (as they need).

>

> I really don't understand the technical issues in all their technicality, and I'm sure this is not a simple issue, but i'm guessing it's also not that much of a stretch to ask for an increase in the cap, if a cap really is necessary. Zerging is the one thing that turns me off from wvw, and I think the game mode could really be rekindled if zerg vs zerg would become a larger skirmish style battle.

>

> What do you guys think?

 

We've been asking for this basically since the game was launched. The whole stacking strat came about because of the 5 man max AoE cap on most skills.

 

If you can still find a link to the old forums, you'll find posts asking for AoE cap to be removed since pre-launch.

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"Reverence.6915" said:

> > @"LucasC.4016" said:

> > I'm a new player and as such don't have loads of experience with wvw, but here's one wild idea: what if aoe skills could hit more targets?

> >

> > I mean, to promote small scale fights, zerging should be heavily punished in some way... And being able to hit only 5 players with aoe strongly encourages zerging, as players are _safer_ when tightly stacked in a blob.

> >

> > Some concerns with this idea:

> > * wouldn't this get scourge damage just way too out of hand, more than it already is?

> > * i've found an old forum post that mentions technical problems with this, as it could mean way too much information for the server to handle if 50 players are hitting the other 50 players each at the same time. That would have been the reason the cap exists in the first place.

> > * defenders advantage would be greatly increased with this, as tight choke points could be exploited

> >

> >

> > Well, consider this:

> > - aoe damage could in deed get out of hand, _but only if players kept stacking tightly in a blob_. If they spread out, damage would be manageable

> > - same goes for the server problems... _if players spread out_, there wouldn't be many situations of 50 players hitting 50 players each. Maybe in those choke points, sure, but not on open field.

> > - as of what i've seen and heard, players don't defend structures that much anymore. And when they do, they are usually vastly outnumbered. This change would mean that a handful of players could actually stand a chance of defending against an enemy zerg. This encourages a more tactical approach to the fight (as good positioning and smart movement would be even more important) and makes way to a smaller team outwitting the opponent instead of battles being won by simply outnumbering your opponent. Also, it could encourage build diversity as the attacking zerg would greatly benefit from having a number of players dedicated to protecting the zerg when going through choke points, with barriers, reflects and such skills. And maybe dps elementalists would have a better place in the game as well (as they need).

> >

> > I really don't understand the technical issues in all their technicality, and I'm sure this is not a simple issue, but i'm guessing it's also not that much of a stretch to ask for an increase in the cap, if a cap really is necessary. Zerging is the one thing that turns me off from wvw, and I think the game mode could really be rekindled if zerg vs zerg would become a larger skirmish style battle.

> >

> > What do you guys think?

>

> We've been asking for this basically since the game was launched. The whole stacking strat came about because of the 5 man max AoE cap on most skills.

>

> If you can still find a link to the old forums, you'll find posts asking for AoE cap to be removed since pre-launch.

And it is still as antithetical today as it was back then when people claim they want "fights". This wouldnt lead to fights, it would lead to zergs getting thanosed out of existance. If 5 players can defeat a 50 man zerg (technically 1 player could against a zerg stacked close enough) that doesnt mean those 5 just magically disappear when a 50 vs 50 meet for a face to face "fair fight" in open field. It would still just be about which group stealthed and instawiped the zerg that stacked first. The only thing limitless AoE would lead to is this: guilds instawiping everything, all PUG commanders quitting and WvW becoming loose blobs of random players that dont want to be near each other.

 

Yeah, sounds real healthy for the game mode.

[steki.1478]

> @"Reverence.6915" said:

> > @"LucasC.4016" said:

> > I'm a new player and as such don't have loads of experience with wvw, but here's one wild idea: what if aoe skills could hit more targets?

> >

> > I mean, to promote small scale fights, zerging should be heavily punished in some way... And being able to hit only 5 players with aoe strongly encourages zerging, as players are _safer_ when tightly stacked in a blob.

> >

> > Some concerns with this idea:

> > * wouldn't this get scourge damage just way too out of hand, more than it already is?

> > * i've found an old forum post that mentions technical problems with this, as it could mean way too much information for the server to handle if 50 players are hitting the other 50 players each at the same time. That would have been the reason the cap exists in the first place.

> > * defenders advantage would be greatly increased with this, as tight choke points could be exploited

> >

> >

> > Well, consider this:

> > - aoe damage could in deed get out of hand, _but only if players kept stacking tightly in a blob_. If they spread out, damage would be manageable

> > - same goes for the server problems... _if players spread out_, there wouldn't be many situations of 50 players hitting 50 players each. Maybe in those choke points, sure, but not on open field.

> > - as of what i've seen and heard, players don't defend structures that much anymore. And when they do, they are usually vastly outnumbered. This change would mean that a handful of players could actually stand a chance of defending against an enemy zerg. This encourages a more tactical approach to the fight (as good positioning and smart movement would be even more important) and makes way to a smaller team outwitting the opponent instead of battles being won by simply outnumbering your opponent. Also, it could encourage build diversity as the attacking zerg would greatly benefit from having a number of players dedicated to protecting the zerg when going through choke points, with barriers, reflects and such skills. And maybe dps elementalists would have a better place in the game as well (as they need).

> >

> > I really don't understand the technical issues in all their technicality, and I'm sure this is not a simple issue, but i'm guessing it's also not that much of a stretch to ask for an increase in the cap, if a cap really is necessary. Zerging is the one thing that turns me off from wvw, and I think the game mode could really be rekindled if zerg vs zerg would become a larger skirmish style battle.

> >

> > What do you guys think?

>

> We've been asking for this basically since the game was launched. The whole stacking strat came about because of the 5 man max AoE cap on most skills.

>

> If you can still find a link to the old forums, you'll find posts asking for AoE cap to be removed since pre-launch.

 

Is it that hard to understand that aoe cap increase/removal wouldn't do any good thing in wvw? Sure smaller zergs would potentially be able to damage whole blob, but that blob will also delete the zerg twice as fast because they have more aoes to begin with.

 

As a side effect, blob v blob will become obnoxious and fights would last even shorter and no one likes one sided fights which is promoted by this change.

 

If you want to win vs big numbers, use classes with already high target cap - weaver and scourge or classes that are great at picking off stragglers - soulbeast, thief and mesmer. Use terrain and even siege as advantage and avoid open field fights. There's plenty of ways to wipe map blobs with ~30 people, you just have to peel them off slowly and not expect instant results.

[LetoII.3782]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"Reverence.6915" said:

> > > @"LucasC.4016" said:

> > > I'm a new player and as such don't have loads of experience with wvw, but here's one wild idea: what if aoe skills could hit more targets?

> > >

> > > I mean, to promote small scale fights, zerging should be heavily punished in some way... And being able to hit only 5 players with aoe strongly encourages zerging, as players are _safer_ when tightly stacked in a blob.

> > >

> > > Some concerns with this idea:

> > > * wouldn't this get scourge damage just way too out of hand, more than it already is?

> > > * i've found an old forum post that mentions technical problems with this, as it could mean way too much information for the server to handle if 50 players are hitting the other 50 players each at the same time. That would have been the reason the cap exists in the first place.

> > > * defenders advantage would be greatly increased with this, as tight choke points could be exploited

> > >

> > >

> > > Well, consider this:

> > > - aoe damage could in deed get out of hand, _but only if players kept stacking tightly in a blob_. If they spread out, damage would be manageable

> > > - same goes for the server problems... _if players spread out_, there wouldn't be many situations of 50 players hitting 50 players each. Maybe in those choke points, sure, but not on open field.

> > > - as of what i've seen and heard, players don't defend structures that much anymore. And when they do, they are usually vastly outnumbered. This change would mean that a handful of players could actually stand a chance of defending against an enemy zerg. This encourages a more tactical approach to the fight (as good positioning and smart movement would be even more important) and makes way to a smaller team outwitting the opponent instead of battles being won by simply outnumbering your opponent. Also, it could encourage build diversity as the attacking zerg would greatly benefit from having a number of players dedicated to protecting the zerg when going through choke points, with barriers, reflects and such skills. And maybe dps elementalists would have a better place in the game as well (as they need).

> > >

> > > I really don't understand the technical issues in all their technicality, and I'm sure this is not a simple issue, but i'm guessing it's also not that much of a stretch to ask for an increase in the cap, if a cap really is necessary. Zerging is the one thing that turns me off from wvw, and I think the game mode could really be rekindled if zerg vs zerg would become a larger skirmish style battle.

> > >

> > > What do you guys think?

> >

> > We've been asking for this basically since the game was launched. The whole stacking strat came about because of the 5 man max AoE cap on most skills.

> >

> > If you can still find a link to the old forums, you'll find posts asking for AoE cap to be removed since pre-launch.

> And it is still as antithetical today as it was back then when people claim they want "fights". This wouldnt lead to fights, it would lead to zergs getting thanosed out of existance. If 5 players can defeat a 50 man zerg (technically 1 player could against a zerg stacked close enough) that doesnt mean those 5 just magically disappear when a 50 vs 50 meet for a face to face "fair fight" in open field. It would still just be about which group stealthed and instawiped the zerg that stacked first. The only thing limitless AoE would lead to is this: guilds instawiping everything, all PUG commanders quitting and WvW becoming loose blobs of random players that dont want to be near each other.

>

> Yeah, sounds real healthy for the game mode.

 

You don't have to stack.

Most games (with real AoE) and in real life, piling up in battle is a horrible idea. It's only here where there's safety in numbers from the artillery strike.. A lot of gw2 players are going to have a hard time in the next game.