Ashantara.8731 Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 They could have, at least, buffed those skills for open world PvE if nothing else. But even there they are useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexZero.7910 Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 > @Lokki.1092 said: > > @TexZero.7910 said: > > > @Ellisande.5218 said: > > > > @TexZero.7910 said: > > > > > @Ellisande.5218 said: > > > > > The real question is, why are racials unique in their function? If all racials were identical in function but different in form, then players would still feel unique while the racials would all be balanced because they'd all actually be the same. > > > > > > > > I feel like this really shouldn't need explaining.... > > > > > > > > The racial skills are different in function because, different races use magic and technology differently. > > > > > > I feel like this really shouldn't need explaining but that is why they would all have different animations while maintaining a similar mechanical function so that they would all be self balancing. What part of that didn't you understand when I posted it the first time? > > > > > > And if every race uses magic differently then how come all Guardians are the same regardless of race? All Hunters? All Engineers? Asura use magic technology while the Sylvari use plant magic technology. It is only the humans and Charr who use steampunk technology. But for some stupid reason all Engineers use stupid steam punk technology that could not possibly work the way it is shown. If you have a problem with all racials being similar in function but different in form, then why aren't you complaining that Asura should Engineers use steampunk instead of magic technology? > > > > Because those are profession skills, not racial skills. Asked and answered :) > > > > As hilarious as it would be seeing a Norn use Warband or Take Root, they aren't part of the Norn heritage or background which is all the racial skills are. They are there solely as flavor to differentiate the races even further. > > How are you not understanding this? > > "Warband Support" would be "Summon Ravens" for a Norn, and "Hounds of Balthazar" For a human. > "Summon Power Suit" Would be "Become the Bear" for a Norn, and "Avatar of Melandru" for a human. > > The skills would be functionally the same but have completely different animations and names. A Norn or human wouldn't get into a golem. They would both have a race based transformation. > > The point is each race would have, utilities, summons, weapons/transformations (skills that change your bars). Each of those abilities would would be identical in damage, range, cooldown and any other functionality. But still have the flavor that differentiates the races. How are you not understanding that homogenization kills the unique factor of them being racial skills ? The entire point of them being called RACIAL skills. Norn's don't summon, the channel and transform. Charr don't use magic (except for heretics), Asura believe in 3 schools of magic that comprise a greater whole and rely on their understanding of sufficiently advanced technology to confuse and surprise their enemies etc....They are legit different for these reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgeisi.5981 Posted October 6, 2017 Author Share Posted October 6, 2017 Deleting them from the game isn't necessary. I'm not sure why you would be against making them work in some way. Most of the racial abilities are pretty cool and if there was a way to make them more useful, why would you not want that? Most of the issue with them is simply the cooldowns. Even if you lose a bit of the uniqueness of your race being the only ones to use them, masteries makes sense. If you're "learning" how to use other racial abilities, that's no different than learning how to glide, or learning ancient magics. And then your race choice has no impact on anything. Putting them in the special ability slot also make sense, which goes unused for the majority of the time except under specific situations. And when those situations arise, the racial skill would just flip over to the skill for that situation. Or even just add an additional slot for racial skills, although I would guess they would prefer to avoid more UI clutter. I understand people not wanting certain races to have advantages because of those skills, but ignoring that fact that there are ways to make it work and simply saying delete them is silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lokki.1092 Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 > @TexZero.7910 said: > > @Lokki.1092 said: > > > @TexZero.7910 said: > > > > @Ellisande.5218 said: > > > > > @TexZero.7910 said: > > > > > > @Ellisande.5218 said: > > > > > > The real question is, why are racials unique in their function? If all racials were identical in function but different in form, then players would still feel unique while the racials would all be balanced because they'd all actually be the same. > > > > > > > > > > I feel like this really shouldn't need explaining.... > > > > > > > > > > The racial skills are different in function because, different races use magic and technology differently. > > > > > > > > I feel like this really shouldn't need explaining but that is why they would all have different animations while maintaining a similar mechanical function so that they would all be self balancing. What part of that didn't you understand when I posted it the first time? > > > > > > > > And if every race uses magic differently then how come all Guardians are the same regardless of race? All Hunters? All Engineers? Asura use magic technology while the Sylvari use plant magic technology. It is only the humans and Charr who use steampunk technology. But for some stupid reason all Engineers use stupid steam punk technology that could not possibly work the way it is shown. If you have a problem with all racials being similar in function but different in form, then why aren't you complaining that Asura should Engineers use steampunk instead of magic technology? > > > > > > Because those are profession skills, not racial skills. Asked and answered :) > > > > > > As hilarious as it would be seeing a Norn use Warband or Take Root, they aren't part of the Norn heritage or background which is all the racial skills are. They are there solely as flavor to differentiate the races even further. > > > > How are you not understanding this? > > > > "Warband Support" would be "Summon Ravens" for a Norn, and "Hounds of Balthazar" For a human. > > "Summon Power Suit" Would be "Become the Bear" for a Norn, and "Avatar of Melandru" for a human. > > > > The skills would be functionally the same but have completely different animations and names. A Norn or human wouldn't get into a golem. They would both have a race based transformation. > > > > The point is each race would have, utilities, summons, weapons/transformations (skills that change your bars). Each of those abilities would would be identical in damage, range, cooldown and any other functionality. But still have the flavor that differentiates the races. > > How are you not understanding that homogenization kills the unique factor of them being racial skills ? > > The entire point of them being called RACIAL skills. Norn's don't summon, the channel and transform. Charr don't use magic (except for heretics), Asura believe in 3 schools of magic that comprise a greater whole and rely on their understanding of sufficiently advanced technology to confuse and surprise their enemies etc....They are legit different for these reasons. Norn don't summon? I've seen Norn call their animal companions into battle many times even back in Guild Wars 1 they did this. What are you even talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen.2907 Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 > @TexZero.7910 said: > > @Lokki.1092 said: > > > @TexZero.7910 said: > > > > @Ellisande.5218 said: > > > > > @TexZero.7910 said: > > > > > > @Ellisande.5218 said: > > > > > > The real question is, why are racials unique in their function? If all racials were identical in function but different in form, then players would still feel unique while the racials would all be balanced because they'd all actually be the same. > > > > > > > > > > I feel like this really shouldn't need explaining.... > > > > > > > > > > The racial skills are different in function because, different races use magic and technology differently. > > > > > > > > I feel like this really shouldn't need explaining but that is why they would all have different animations while maintaining a similar mechanical function so that they would all be self balancing. What part of that didn't you understand when I posted it the first time? > > > > > > > > And if every race uses magic differently then how come all Guardians are the same regardless of race? All Hunters? All Engineers? Asura use magic technology while the Sylvari use plant magic technology. It is only the humans and Charr who use steampunk technology. But for some stupid reason all Engineers use stupid steam punk technology that could not possibly work the way it is shown. If you have a problem with all racials being similar in function but different in form, then why aren't you complaining that Asura should Engineers use steampunk instead of magic technology? > > > > > > Because those are profession skills, not racial skills. Asked and answered :) > > > > > > As hilarious as it would be seeing a Norn use Warband or Take Root, they aren't part of the Norn heritage or background which is all the racial skills are. They are there solely as flavor to differentiate the races even further. > > > > How are you not understanding this? > > > > "Warband Support" would be "Summon Ravens" for a Norn, and "Hounds of Balthazar" For a human. > > "Summon Power Suit" Would be "Become the Bear" for a Norn, and "Avatar of Melandru" for a human. > > > > The skills would be functionally the same but have completely different animations and names. A Norn or human wouldn't get into a golem. They would both have a race based transformation. > > > > The point is each race would have, utilities, summons, weapons/transformations (skills that change your bars). Each of those abilities would would be identical in damage, range, cooldown and any other functionality. But still have the flavor that differentiates the races. > > How are you not understanding that homogenization kills the unique factor of them being racial skills ? > > The entire point of them being called RACIAL skills. Norn's don't summon, the channel and transform. Charr don't use magic (except for heretics), Asura believe in 3 schools of magic that comprise a greater whole and rely on their understanding of sufficiently advanced technology to confuse and surprise their enemies etc....They are legit different for these reasons. Every Charr player character uses magic to some degree. Every norn guardian, thief, ranger, necro, ele, mesmer, and engineer has learned to summon. Every Asuran has the potential to learn and use the same magics that every other race practices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexZero.7910 Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 > @Ashen.2907 said: > Every Charr player character uses magic to some degree. > Every norn guardian, thief, ranger, necro, ele, mesmer, and engineer has learned to summon. > > Every Asuran has the potential to learn and use the same magics that every other race practices. Yes their professions skills (Important distinction here, stop ignoring it) do those. The elements core to their Race don't. It's quite literally that simple. The races skills are there solely to be flavor to help distinguish them from the other races and add a small element of lore/background to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
castlemanic.3198 Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said: > Step 1: Remove Non-profession skills from raids (and fractals/wvw?). There, now they no longer influence meta that matters (since they're already locked from pvp. > Step 2: Buff Racial / Mistfire Wolf, and bring back [Antitoxin Spray](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Antitoxin_Spray). > Step 3: Add more racial skills so that there's an even amount across the board (1 heal, 3 utility, 4 elites). Revenants can get a new legendary to compensate. Add 4 utility non-racial, non-profession skills to go with Antitoxin Spray and Mistfore Wolf, perhaps themed after the PS, Season 1, and Season 2 (say, "Order Support" that summons NPC allies based off of the order you chose). > Step 4: Add a new core traitline that focuses around racial skills. > > All these would entirely change my opinion on the matter and these steps being taken would have my full support thrown behind them. (and please bring back anti-toxin spray). Although how would you deal with mistfire wolf being deluxe edition only? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panda.1967 Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 > @castlemanic.3198 said: > > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said: > > Step 1: Remove Non-profession skills from raids (and fractals/wvw?). There, now they no longer influence meta that matters (since they're already locked from pvp. > > Step 2: Buff Racial / Mistfire Wolf, and bring back [Antitoxin Spray](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Antitoxin_Spray). > > Step 3: Add more racial skills so that there's an even amount across the board (1 heal, 3 utility, 4 elites). Revenants can get a new legendary to compensate. Add 4 utility non-racial, non-profession skills to go with Antitoxin Spray and Mistfore Wolf, perhaps themed after the PS, Season 1, and Season 2 (say, "Order Support" that summons NPC allies based off of the order you chose). > > Step 4: Add a new core traitline that focuses around racial skills. > > > > > > All these would entirely change my opinion on the matter and these steps being taken would have my full support thrown behind them. (and please bring back anti-toxin spray). > > Although how would you deal with mistfire wolf being deluxe edition only? That's very simple. Balance it to be equivalent to Sylvan Hound and Hounds of Balthazar. If all of the racial summoning elites were equivalent then the fact that mistfire wolf is a deluxe edition exclusive would be meaningless. It'd simply be an elite summon usable on all races with a unique skin, no better or worse than the others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
castlemanic.3198 Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 > @Panda.1967 said: > That's very simple. Balance it to be equivalent to Sylvan Hound and Hounds of Balthazar. If all of the racial summoning elites were equivalent then the fact that mistfire wolf is a deluxe edition exclusive would be meaningless. It'd simply be an elite summon usable on all races with a unique skin, no better or worse than the others. That's not what I meant. With mistfire wolf being deluxe edition exclusive, how do you deal with the inclusion of an extra skill some or many won't have. I don't have any figures to work with, but i assume that the number of people who don't have mistfire wolf is not insignificant. I guess just make sure there's an elite core skill that can be used by anyone, and mistfire wolf is just simply a second core elite that remains exclusive to deluxe edition owners, but that doesn't sit right with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vesica tempestas.1563 Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 > @castlemanic.3198 said: > > @Panda.1967 said: > > That's very simple. Balance it to be equivalent to Sylvan Hound and Hounds of Balthazar. If all of the racial summoning elites were equivalent then the fact that mistfire wolf is a deluxe edition exclusive would be meaningless. It'd simply be an elite summon usable on all races with a unique skin, no better or worse than the others. > > That's not what I meant. With mistfire wolf being deluxe edition exclusive, how do you deal with the inclusion of an extra skill some or many won't have. I don't have any figures to work with, but i assume that the number of people who don't have mistfire wolf is not insignificant. I guess just make sure there's an elite core skill that can be used by anyone, and mistfire wolf is just simply a second core elite that remains exclusive to deluxe edition owners, but that doesn't sit right with me. All thats needed is that mistfire is on an equal footing with other elite skills. Delux users who paid extra for it gets value for their money, and no other players are disadvantaged by not having it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
castlemanic.3198 Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > All thats needed is that mistfire is on an equal footing with other elite skills. Delux users who paid extra for it gets value for their money, and no other players are disadvantaged by not having it. I guess. I dunno why it's not sitting right with me though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vesica tempestas.1563 Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 > @castlemanic.3198 said: > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > All thats needed is that mistfire is on an equal footing with other elite skills. Delux users who paid extra for it gets value for their money, and no other players are disadvantaged by not having it. > > I guess. I dunno why it's not sitting right with me though. think of it this way, its just pixels if its balanced, no different than a pet, and those people contributed to the upkeep of the game for all, its win win really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vesica tempestas.1563 Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > @castlemanic.3198 said: > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > All thats needed is that mistfire is on an equal footing with other elite skills. Delux users who paid extra for it gets value for their money, and no other players are disadvantaged by not having it. > > > > I guess. I dunno why it's not sitting right with me though. > > think of it this way, its just pixels if its balanced, no different than a pet, and those people contributed to the upkeep of the game for all, its win win really. Imagine paying for a delux version of a bag, only to find out the bag only has 11 slots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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