Jinks.2057 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 > @"Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582" said: > > @Jinks.2057 said: > > > @"Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582" said: > > > > @Jinks.2057 said: > > > > > @"Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582" said: > > > > > @Frostball.9108 said: > > > > > > > @"Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582" said: > > > > > > > > @Frostball.9108 said: > > > > > > > > A lot of people are trying to steer the conversation towards the obvious bug which is the downstate instakill. Stop trying to pretend as if the first hit damage is fine, its ludicrous and it needs a fix. I dont care in what way they fix it, they can remake the whole pet to make it useful or whatever but having something like this in the game is just not healthy, anyone could see that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To anyone claiming you need ridiculous setup for a big hit is wrong. If you check the clip you can see him swapping to his gazelle meaning he did not have time to buff the pet in ridiculous manner. I did not have high vuln stacks on me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thief can do 16k+ from stealth or even more as deadeye from 1500 range with no more effort and does not need to try and work around bad AI to make it happen. You've been able to do this since launch with Drake F3 (actually even better before the SotW changes) and for years with Tiger F2, but where is the QQ about those? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > People may actually (have to) pay attention to Ranger pets and pet swapping instead of simply ignoring them completely or just walking in circles to avoid them. No doubt it will be nerfed though and people can just go on ignoring them. > > > > > > > > > > > > Deadeye has a clear tell and has to wait for 5 malice stacks in stealth which is much more effort than this without mentioning its a projectile. Working around the bad AI is significantly easier. You cant reach these numbers nearly as easily with the pets you mentioned. Youre trying to make it look like the gazelle charge damage is fine which it obviously isnt. Why would you use the gazelle charge if you can use the tiger to do the same thing while being more fluid? :) This is just making you look like an idiot. > > > > > > > > > > Deadeye can do it with no tell. You don't have to mark the target you are going to 1-shot, you can mark anything that can be targeted (I think that's a bug), cast shadow refuge, wait for malice and then bam, you are 1-shot from stealth and 1500 range. How is working around AI significantly easier than that? > > > > > > > > > > I'm not defending the actual damage from Gazelle, it's a bit absurd and the down-state bug is bad, but I am defending the ability to 1-shot with a full pet build. The fact that you can 1-shot people with a tiger or drakes just makes my point, it already exists in the game and it IS way more fluid with a Tiger because it's on the F2 which is half the CD as charge and you don't need to swap/stow to trigger it. Like I said, I have done 27k with tailswipe previously which is more than any of the initial hits people have screenshot the Gazelle doing, that was years ago. > > > > > > > > In PvP a thief cannot hit those numbers from any stealth attack period end of discussion. > > > > > > > > Now if you are talking about Death's Judgement the thief is instantly revealed & sits there for 3/4ths of a second with a huge targeting laser. The only way it gets complicated to dodge if the thief blows Haste to speed up the process. > > > > > > > > Gazelle charge needs to be nerfed by 50-60% minimum > > > > > > Yes I was referring to DJ, and the revealed is a bonus for the additional 200 power really. Deadeye can get at least to 38k from DJ. That's almost the same scenario the gazelle requires but from 1500 range, albeit a longer setup time, but it's very repeatable. From stowed/swapped it won't move for at least 3/4s, even if you blow Quickening Zephyr, likely Clarion Bond animation, an Attack of Opportunity and an Opening Strike with Remorseless, from melee range. If you do it from outside melee range you can literally just tap W, A, S or D and it will miss. > > > > > > 30% would be enough. > > > > No AI should hit that hard even after a 30% nerf. 50-60% and nerf further if needed. > > > > The DE isn't AI. That's a controlled player. Even a Scourge is a controlled player. Spellbreaker too. > > > > The Gazelle damage can't be defended and needs to go. > > The AI is a handicap, not a bonus. Rangers been using that handicap for over 2 years to be the best 1v1 class in the game, bunker in pvp, and provide utility. If that's how you define handicap I'm sure the rest of the classes would surely LOVE to be handicapped too. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psizone.8437 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said: > I talked to the skills team about this, they are looking at it. I agree it needs nerfed but make sure they fix it so it can hit a moving target at the same time. Same goes for the other pets in the game, they need to reliably hit a moving target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatthiasL.5346 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 Wait, are people really defending this and saying this is intended?! Stop saying the damage is fine just because scourge and spellbreaker are op at the moment, this is no justification for you to have an bugged, overpowered AI pet. Why is there even any discussion about this? Op classes are a whole other story and need to be tuned down as well but that's not the point of this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psizone.8437 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 > @MatthiasL.5346 said: > Wait, are people really defending this and saying this is intended?! Stop saying the damage is fine just because scourge and spellbreaker are op at the moment, this is no justification for you to have an bugged, overpowered AI pet. Why is there even any discussion about this? Op classes are a whole other story and need to be tuned down as well but that's not the point of this thread. > It's not all that surprising. If anyobodys favourite class has an overtuned ability that they are enjoying immensely, they'll defend it any way they can to try and prevent it being nerfed. Try telling people that Scourge is OP because of the condition/boon strip spam, that Spellbreakers need to have less access to Resistance or that Daredevils have too much access to evade frames and you'll find a fair amount of people that will fight you on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aomine.5012 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 > @Madisonlee.9641 said: > Also if anyone tries to say the set up is difficult, literally make a ranger, put on marksmanship and BM ( a staple of maul rangers, most already have it ) and put on sic em. > > The key to having deer hit is to summon it at around 600 range from the enemy, have the quickness BM trait, and maul + sic'em as soon as you switch to deer. > > It is literally the easiest thing to do and does 20K+ on single hits (not counting the bug) > > If the enemy doesn't dodge, they die. Period. No stupid setup of might or any other things, just sic' em and maul. > > > If what you say is true, those rangers would be roaming around all over the place, and I would have died to all those so-called easiest thing to set-up ranger already no? But what's the truth? During my time of playing as Spellbreaker, they're literally free kill. Keep on mentioning how viable this build is, I don't see it in PVP atm cuz it's either not practical or you never used that build in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 > @Jinks.2057 said: > > @"Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582" said: > > > @Jinks.2057 said: > > > > @"Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582" said: > > > > > @Jinks.2057 said: > > > > > > @"Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582" said: > > > > > > @Frostball.9108 said: > > > > > > > > @"Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582" said: > > > > > > > > > @Frostball.9108 said: > > > > > > > > > A lot of people are trying to steer the conversation towards the obvious bug which is the downstate instakill. Stop trying to pretend as if the first hit damage is fine, its ludicrous and it needs a fix. I dont care in what way they fix it, they can remake the whole pet to make it useful or whatever but having something like this in the game is just not healthy, anyone could see that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To anyone claiming you need ridiculous setup for a big hit is wrong. If you check the clip you can see him swapping to his gazelle meaning he did not have time to buff the pet in ridiculous manner. I did not have high vuln stacks on me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thief can do 16k+ from stealth or even more as deadeye from 1500 range with no more effort and does not need to try and work around bad AI to make it happen. You've been able to do this since launch with Drake F3 (actually even better before the SotW changes) and for years with Tiger F2, but where is the QQ about those? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > People may actually (have to) pay attention to Ranger pets and pet swapping instead of simply ignoring them completely or just walking in circles to avoid them. No doubt it will be nerfed though and people can just go on ignoring them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deadeye has a clear tell and has to wait for 5 malice stacks in stealth which is much more effort than this without mentioning its a projectile. Working around the bad AI is significantly easier. You cant reach these numbers nearly as easily with the pets you mentioned. Youre trying to make it look like the gazelle charge damage is fine which it obviously isnt. Why would you use the gazelle charge if you can use the tiger to do the same thing while being more fluid? :) This is just making you look like an idiot. > > > > > > > > > > > > Deadeye can do it with no tell. You don't have to mark the target you are going to 1-shot, you can mark anything that can be targeted (I think that's a bug), cast shadow refuge, wait for malice and then bam, you are 1-shot from stealth and 1500 range. How is working around AI significantly easier than that? > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not defending the actual damage from Gazelle, it's a bit absurd and the down-state bug is bad, but I am defending the ability to 1-shot with a full pet build. The fact that you can 1-shot people with a tiger or drakes just makes my point, it already exists in the game and it IS way more fluid with a Tiger because it's on the F2 which is half the CD as charge and you don't need to swap/stow to trigger it. Like I said, I have done 27k with tailswipe previously which is more than any of the initial hits people have screenshot the Gazelle doing, that was years ago. > > > > > > > > > > In PvP a thief cannot hit those numbers from any stealth attack period end of discussion. > > > > > > > > > > Now if you are talking about Death's Judgement the thief is instantly revealed & sits there for 3/4ths of a second with a huge targeting laser. The only way it gets complicated to dodge if the thief blows Haste to speed up the process. > > > > > > > > > > Gazelle charge needs to be nerfed by 50-60% minimum > > > > > > > > Yes I was referring to DJ, and the revealed is a bonus for the additional 200 power really. Deadeye can get at least to 38k from DJ. That's almost the same scenario the gazelle requires but from 1500 range, albeit a longer setup time, but it's very repeatable. From stowed/swapped it won't move for at least 3/4s, even if you blow Quickening Zephyr, likely Clarion Bond animation, an Attack of Opportunity and an Opening Strike with Remorseless, from melee range. If you do it from outside melee range you can literally just tap W, A, S or D and it will miss. > > > > > > > > 30% would be enough. > > > > > > No AI should hit that hard even after a 30% nerf. 50-60% and nerf further if needed. > > > > > > The DE isn't AI. That's a controlled player. Even a Scourge is a controlled player. Spellbreaker too. > > > > > > The Gazelle damage can't be defended and needs to go. > > > > The AI is a handicap, not a bonus. > > Rangers been using that handicap for over 2 years to be the best 1v1 class in the game, bunker in pvp, and provide utility. > > If that's how you define handicap I'm sure the rest of the classes would surely LOVE to be handicapped too. > > LOL I said the AI was a handicap, not the pet itself. You need play the Ranger and pet around the AI, you can't just let it do it's thing or it doesn't do anything. You have to micro the pet to prevent the AI from making it completely useless. Now I realise why you think Ranger has a low skill ceiling, you're just clueless on what it takes to actually play it well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aomine.5012 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 > @Frostball.9108 said: > > @"Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582" said: > > > @Frostball.9108 said: > > > A lot of people are trying to steer the conversation towards the obvious bug which is the downstate instakill. Stop trying to pretend as if the first hit damage is fine, its ludicrous and it needs a fix. I dont care in what way they fix it, they can remake the whole pet to make it useful or whatever but having something like this in the game is just not healthy, anyone could see that. > > > > > > To anyone claiming you need ridiculous setup for a big hit is wrong. If you check the clip you can see him swapping to his gazelle meaning he did not have time to buff the pet in ridiculous manner. I did not have high vuln stacks on me. > > > > Thief can do 16k+ from stealth or even more as deadeye from 1500 range with no more effort and does not need to try and work around bad AI to make it happen. You've been able to do this since launch with Drake F3 (actually even better before the SotW changes) and for years with Tiger F2, but where is the QQ about those? > > > > People may actually (have to) pay attention to Ranger pets and pet swapping instead of simply ignoring them completely or just walking in circles to avoid them. No doubt it will be nerfed though and people can just go on ignoring them. > > Deadeye has a clear tell and has to wait for 5 malice stacks in stealth which is much more effort than this without mentioning its a projectile. Working around the bad AI is significantly easier. You cant reach these numbers nearly as easily with the pets you mentioned. Youre trying to make it look like the gazelle charge damage is fine which it obviously isnt. Why would you use the gazelle charge if you can use the tiger to do the same thing while being more fluid? :) This is just making you look like an idiot. Deadeye has clear tell? Hahaha, this is very funny, donnu how many bad Deadeye have you faced. Good ones free-shot you with 17k while in stealth while teleporting around. Sure, I can count the time and use my immunity or reflect by guessing when they'd shoot and use it randomly, but it doesn't always work. If I guess it wrong once, I'd eat a 17k bullet twice and died instantly. If anything has a clearer tell, it's ranger's stupid pet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aomine.5012 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 > @Jinks.2057 said: > > @"Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582" said: > > @Frostball.9108 said: > > > > @"Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582" said: > > > > > @Frostball.9108 said: > > > > > A lot of people are trying to steer the conversation towards the obvious bug which is the downstate instakill. Stop trying to pretend as if the first hit damage is fine, its ludicrous and it needs a fix. I dont care in what way they fix it, they can remake the whole pet to make it useful or whatever but having something like this in the game is just not healthy, anyone could see that. > > > > > > > > > > To anyone claiming you need ridiculous setup for a big hit is wrong. If you check the clip you can see him swapping to his gazelle meaning he did not have time to buff the pet in ridiculous manner. I did not have high vuln stacks on me. > > > > > > > > Thief can do 16k+ from stealth or even more as deadeye from 1500 range with no more effort and does not need to try and work around bad AI to make it happen. You've been able to do this since launch with Drake F3 (actually even better before the SotW changes) and for years with Tiger F2, but where is the QQ about those? > > > > > > > > People may actually (have to) pay attention to Ranger pets and pet swapping instead of simply ignoring them completely or just walking in circles to avoid them. No doubt it will be nerfed though and people can just go on ignoring them. > > > > > > Deadeye has a clear tell and has to wait for 5 malice stacks in stealth which is much more effort than this without mentioning its a projectile. Working around the bad AI is significantly easier. You cant reach these numbers nearly as easily with the pets you mentioned. Youre trying to make it look like the gazelle charge damage is fine which it obviously isnt. Why would you use the gazelle charge if you can use the tiger to do the same thing while being more fluid? :) This is just making you look like an idiot. > > > > Deadeye can do it with no tell. You don't have to mark the target you are going to 1-shot, you can mark anything that can be targeted (I think that's a bug), cast shadow refuge, wait for malice and then bam, you are 1-shot from stealth and 1500 range. How is working around AI significantly easier than that? > > > > I'm not defending the actual damage from Gazelle, it's a bit absurd and the down-state bug is bad, but I am defending the ability to 1-shot with a full pet build. The fact that you can 1-shot people with a tiger or drakes just makes my point, it already exists in the game and it IS way more fluid with a Tiger because it's on the F2 which is half the CD as charge and you don't need to swap/stow to trigger it. Like I said, I have done 27k with tailswipe previously which is more than any of the initial hits people have screenshot the Gazelle doing, that was years ago. > > In PvP a thief cannot hit those numbers from any stealth attack period end of discussion. > > Now if you are talking about Death's Judgement the thief is instantly revealed & sits there for 3/4ths of a second with a huge targeting laser. The only way it gets complicated to dodge if the thief blows Haste to speed up the process. > > Gazelle charge needs to be nerfed by 50-60% minimum Thief cannot hit those numbers? Then how's my Spellbreaker with toughness amulet get hit 17k in ONE SHOT twice then? If I'm a light armor, I'd probably see 20k+ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaqueFyre.5678 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 > @Aomine.5012 said: > > @Jinks.2057 said: > > > @"Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582" said: > > > @Frostball.9108 said: > > > > > @"Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582" said: > > > > > > @Frostball.9108 said: > > > > > > A lot of people are trying to steer the conversation towards the obvious bug which is the downstate instakill. Stop trying to pretend as if the first hit damage is fine, its ludicrous and it needs a fix. I dont care in what way they fix it, they can remake the whole pet to make it useful or whatever but having something like this in the game is just not healthy, anyone could see that. > > > > > > > > > > > > To anyone claiming you need ridiculous setup for a big hit is wrong. If you check the clip you can see him swapping to his gazelle meaning he did not have time to buff the pet in ridiculous manner. I did not have high vuln stacks on me. > > > > > > > > > > Thief can do 16k+ from stealth or even more as deadeye from 1500 range with no more effort and does not need to try and work around bad AI to make it happen. You've been able to do this since launch with Drake F3 (actually even better before the SotW changes) and for years with Tiger F2, but where is the QQ about those? > > > > > > > > > > People may actually (have to) pay attention to Ranger pets and pet swapping instead of simply ignoring them completely or just walking in circles to avoid them. No doubt it will be nerfed though and people can just go on ignoring them. > > > > > > > > Deadeye has a clear tell and has to wait for 5 malice stacks in stealth which is much more effort than this without mentioning its a projectile. Working around the bad AI is significantly easier. You cant reach these numbers nearly as easily with the pets you mentioned. Youre trying to make it look like the gazelle charge damage is fine which it obviously isnt. Why would you use the gazelle charge if you can use the tiger to do the same thing while being more fluid? :) This is just making you look like an idiot. > > > > > > Deadeye can do it with no tell. You don't have to mark the target you are going to 1-shot, you can mark anything that can be targeted (I think that's a bug), cast shadow refuge, wait for malice and then bam, you are 1-shot from stealth and 1500 range. How is working around AI significantly easier than that? > > > > > > I'm not defending the actual damage from Gazelle, it's a bit absurd and the down-state bug is bad, but I am defending the ability to 1-shot with a full pet build. The fact that you can 1-shot people with a tiger or drakes just makes my point, it already exists in the game and it IS way more fluid with a Tiger because it's on the F2 which is half the CD as charge and you don't need to swap/stow to trigger it. Like I said, I have done 27k with tailswipe previously which is more than any of the initial hits people have screenshot the Gazelle doing, that was years ago. > > > > In PvP a thief cannot hit those numbers from any stealth attack period end of discussion. > > > > Now if you are talking about Death's Judgement the thief is instantly revealed & sits there for 3/4ths of a second with a huge targeting laser. The only way it gets complicated to dodge if the thief blows Haste to speed up the process. > > > > Gazelle charge needs to be nerfed by 50-60% minimum > > Thief cannot hit those numbers? > Then how's my Spellbreaker with toughness amulet get hit 17k in ONE SHOT twice then? > If I'm a light armor, I'd probably see 20k+ Might want to re-read what they said, they said from Stealth, since it is impossible to do Death’s Judgement Damage from Stealth, because of that pesky thing of Revealing before the Animations even start, you know the orange laser, the audio queue, the dark red projectile, and in some cases the Mark above players heads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aomine.5012 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 > @Jinks.2057 said: > > @"Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582" said: > > > @Jinks.2057 said: > > > > @"Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582" said: > > > > > @Jinks.2057 said: > > > > > > @"Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582" said: > > > > > > @Frostball.9108 said: > > > > > > > > @"Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582" said: > > > > > > > > > @Frostball.9108 said: > > > > > > > > > A lot of people are trying to steer the conversation towards the obvious bug which is the downstate instakill. Stop trying to pretend as if the first hit damage is fine, its ludicrous and it needs a fix. I dont care in what way they fix it, they can remake the whole pet to make it useful or whatever but having something like this in the game is just not healthy, anyone could see that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To anyone claiming you need ridiculous setup for a big hit is wrong. If you check the clip you can see him swapping to his gazelle meaning he did not have time to buff the pet in ridiculous manner. I did not have high vuln stacks on me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thief can do 16k+ from stealth or even more as deadeye from 1500 range with no more effort and does not need to try and work around bad AI to make it happen. You've been able to do this since launch with Drake F3 (actually even better before the SotW changes) and for years with Tiger F2, but where is the QQ about those? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > People may actually (have to) pay attention to Ranger pets and pet swapping instead of simply ignoring them completely or just walking in circles to avoid them. No doubt it will be nerfed though and people can just go on ignoring them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deadeye has a clear tell and has to wait for 5 malice stacks in stealth which is much more effort than this without mentioning its a projectile. Working around the bad AI is significantly easier. You cant reach these numbers nearly as easily with the pets you mentioned. Youre trying to make it look like the gazelle charge damage is fine which it obviously isnt. Why would you use the gazelle charge if you can use the tiger to do the same thing while being more fluid? :) This is just making you look like an idiot. > > > > > > > > > > > > Deadeye can do it with no tell. You don't have to mark the target you are going to 1-shot, you can mark anything that can be targeted (I think that's a bug), cast shadow refuge, wait for malice and then bam, you are 1-shot from stealth and 1500 range. How is working around AI significantly easier than that? > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not defending the actual damage from Gazelle, it's a bit absurd and the down-state bug is bad, but I am defending the ability to 1-shot with a full pet build. The fact that you can 1-shot people with a tiger or drakes just makes my point, it already exists in the game and it IS way more fluid with a Tiger because it's on the F2 which is half the CD as charge and you don't need to swap/stow to trigger it. Like I said, I have done 27k with tailswipe previously which is more than any of the initial hits people have screenshot the Gazelle doing, that was years ago. > > > > > > > > > > In PvP a thief cannot hit those numbers from any stealth attack period end of discussion. > > > > > > > > > > Now if you are talking about Death's Judgement the thief is instantly revealed & sits there for 3/4ths of a second with a huge targeting laser. The only way it gets complicated to dodge if the thief blows Haste to speed up the process. > > > > > > > > > > Gazelle charge needs to be nerfed by 50-60% minimum > > > > > > > > Yes I was referring to DJ, and the revealed is a bonus for the additional 200 power really. Deadeye can get at least to 38k from DJ. That's almost the same scenario the gazelle requires but from 1500 range, albeit a longer setup time, but it's very repeatable. From stowed/swapped it won't move for at least 3/4s, even if you blow Quickening Zephyr, likely Clarion Bond animation, an Attack of Opportunity and an Opening Strike with Remorseless, from melee range. If you do it from outside melee range you can literally just tap W, A, S or D and it will miss. > > > > > > > > 30% would be enough. > > > > > > No AI should hit that hard even after a 30% nerf. 50-60% and nerf further if needed. > > > > > > The DE isn't AI. That's a controlled player. Even a Scourge is a controlled player. Spellbreaker too. > > > > > > The Gazelle damage can't be defended and needs to go. > > > > The AI is a handicap, not a bonus. > > Rangers been using that handicap for over 2 years to be the best 1v1 class in the game, bunker in pvp, and provide utility. > > If that's how you define handicap I'm sure the rest of the classes would surely LOVE to be handicapped too. > > LOL HAHAHAHAHHA Are we playing the same game? Ranger best 1 v 1 and supporter in PVP for 2 years lolz. You say that with straight face while during HoT launch Chrono, Revenant, Tempest, DH doing way more OP things. And now they gutted all the HoT pets , staff, and Celestial for more than half a year already, and you can still say that with straight face? Firebrand now outclass Druid in PVP 100% because on demand burst, support, and heal. They do it better with group RESISTANCE SPAM, STABILITY SPAM, and HUGE CLEANSE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZhouX.8742 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 > @Aomine.5012 said: > > @Jinks.2057 said: > > > @"Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582" said: > > > > @Jinks.2057 said: > > > > > @"Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582" said: > > > > > > @Jinks.2057 said: > > > > > > > @"Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582" said: > > > > > > > @Frostball.9108 said: > > > > > > > > > @"Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582" said: > > > > > > > > > > @Frostball.9108 said: > > > > > > > > > > A lot of people are trying to steer the conversation towards the obvious bug which is the downstate instakill. Stop trying to pretend as if the first hit damage is fine, its ludicrous and it needs a fix. I dont care in what way they fix it, they can remake the whole pet to make it useful or whatever but having something like this in the game is just not healthy, anyone could see that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To anyone claiming you need ridiculous setup for a big hit is wrong. If you check the clip you can see him swapping to his gazelle meaning he did not have time to buff the pet in ridiculous manner. I did not have high vuln stacks on me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thief can do 16k+ from stealth or even more as deadeye from 1500 range with no more effort and does not need to try and work around bad AI to make it happen. You've been able to do this since launch with Drake F3 (actually even better before the SotW changes) and for years with Tiger F2, but where is the QQ about those? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > People may actually (have to) pay attention to Ranger pets and pet swapping instead of simply ignoring them completely or just walking in circles to avoid them. No doubt it will be nerfed though and people can just go on ignoring them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deadeye has a clear tell and has to wait for 5 malice stacks in stealth which is much more effort than this without mentioning its a projectile. Working around the bad AI is significantly easier. You cant reach these numbers nearly as easily with the pets you mentioned. Youre trying to make it look like the gazelle charge damage is fine which it obviously isnt. Why would you use the gazelle charge if you can use the tiger to do the same thing while being more fluid? :) This is just making you look like an idiot. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deadeye can do it with no tell. You don't have to mark the target you are going to 1-shot, you can mark anything that can be targeted (I think that's a bug), cast shadow refuge, wait for malice and then bam, you are 1-shot from stealth and 1500 range. How is working around AI significantly easier than that? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not defending the actual damage from Gazelle, it's a bit absurd and the down-state bug is bad, but I am defending the ability to 1-shot with a full pet build. The fact that you can 1-shot people with a tiger or drakes just makes my point, it already exists in the game and it IS way more fluid with a Tiger because it's on the F2 which is half the CD as charge and you don't need to swap/stow to trigger it. Like I said, I have done 27k with tailswipe previously which is more than any of the initial hits people have screenshot the Gazelle doing, that was years ago. > > > > > > > > > > > > In PvP a thief cannot hit those numbers from any stealth attack period end of discussion. > > > > > > > > > > > > Now if you are talking about Death's Judgement the thief is instantly revealed & sits there for 3/4ths of a second with a huge targeting laser. The only way it gets complicated to dodge if the thief blows Haste to speed up the process. > > > > > > > > > > > > Gazelle charge needs to be nerfed by 50-60% minimum > > > > > > > > > > Yes I was referring to DJ, and the revealed is a bonus for the additional 200 power really. Deadeye can get at least to 38k from DJ. That's almost the same scenario the gazelle requires but from 1500 range, albeit a longer setup time, but it's very repeatable. From stowed/swapped it won't move for at least 3/4s, even if you blow Quickening Zephyr, likely Clarion Bond animation, an Attack of Opportunity and an Opening Strike with Remorseless, from melee range. If you do it from outside melee range you can literally just tap W, A, S or D and it will miss. > > > > > > > > > > 30% would be enough. > > > > > > > > No AI should hit that hard even after a 30% nerf. 50-60% and nerf further if needed. > > > > > > > > The DE isn't AI. That's a controlled player. Even a Scourge is a controlled player. Spellbreaker too. > > > > > > > > The Gazelle damage can't be defended and needs to go. > > > > > > The AI is a handicap, not a bonus. > > > > Rangers been using that handicap for over 2 years to be the best 1v1 class in the game, bunker in pvp, and provide utility. > > > > If that's how you define handicap I'm sure the rest of the classes would surely LOVE to be handicapped too. > > > > LOL > > HAHAHAHAHHA Are we playing the same game? > > Ranger best 1 v 1 and supporter in PVP for 2 years lolz. > You say that with straight face while during HoT launch Chrono, Revenant, Tempest, DH doing way more OP things. > > And now they gutted all the HoT pets , staff, and Celestial for more than half a year already, and you can still say that with straight face? > > Firebrand now outclass Druid in PVP 100% because on demand burst, support, and heal. > They do it better with group RESISTANCE SPAM, STABILITY SPAM, and HUGE CLEANSE. **Keep in mind I'm not defending this gazelle bug , it's unhealthy for the game and as such needs to be fixed but I would suggest keeping initial hit , fix multi-hits. Anybody even attempting to defend the bug on this needs to really evaluate what's healthy and not for the game.** With that said: Jinks mainly confuses ranger/druid with condi bunker chrono with mirage being arguably better in 1v1 now with sage. Chrono has always been a strong contender next to druid for point bunker and also carries portal, game breaking rotation utility. He also confuses 1v1 with simply staying alive long enough for a 1up to appear, which is the main role of druid now in conquest. * 1v1 in the sense of stalemating against spellbreaker until a 1up appears, * spending 3-5 minutes off point fighting scourge 1v1 , etc ... 1v1 not in the sense of killing everything it can encounter, again, simply staying alive. * fighting condi sage mesmer for 5 minutes to stalemate a neutral point or hold a captured point Mostly this is due to the amulet not so much the druid spec itself. If you were to slap anything other than mender's on , you would be a sitting duck and druid would be out of it's entire role in conquest and would never be used. I've seen some rangers use paladin's though, but they would never hold a point doing that, it is mainly for a build revolving around 1-2 group fights and small skirmishes. Firebrand is better in team support by far, ele also , druid has been a point bunker for a while now but definitely not 2 years and only because of one amulet - not even the class itself so much. A lot of exaggeration there. Utility support? Maybe when spirits revived consistently or druid wasn't gutted like 10 times because it over-performed in PvE/WvW then yes, you could say ranger had game-changing group utility on the level of maybe mesmer/thief (let's be honest, no class will ever have this kind of impact like those 2 on conquest) but now druid is by nature a selfish spec reduced down to point bunker. Giving people swiftness isn't necessarily game changing , and since revive trait was nerfed into the ground, it's hardly that great now as well and not nearly as game changing as it was before. With scourge at the moment keep in mind you will immediately lose the point (as will anybody really) because as a druid you need to stay minimum > 800 range to even survive and spam longbow and risk being 1upped again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huehuehueh.5106 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 > @Madisonlee.9641 said: > > @huehuehueh.5106 said: > > hey anet, what in the bill cosby is this kitten? > > https://i.imgur.com/1zuGTOl.jpg > > > > 26,252 + 8,507 +14,461 + 8,507 + 14,461 = > > Instantly blasted with 72,188 damage FROM A PET. My health pool is 23k... > > > > Also no downstate lmao! > > That was my baby Papa Justify! > > Don't let any rangers in the thread fool you into thinking that it takes 100 buffs or some crazy kitten situation that leaves you otherwise useless to do that > > BM+Marksmanship, switch to deer, sic' em and maul. That's it. If the deer lands it, opponent is guaranteed dead. (deer has trouble landing it though) > > It's literal kitten, but then again, so are scourge condi and spellbreaker so... I'm going to enjoy one shotting them while it lasts ^^; > > Apologies for what my dirty deer did to you Haha No Problem. I am not even mad at this dude because he is just using the skills and abilities that anet gave him. I have personally not abused this because I believe it to be a unintended bug. What I want to know if this is purposeful on anets part, because if it is I am just going to make a full stealth ranger that hugs every second of stealth using trapper runes and all the stealth traits abilities, weapons, and combos just to prolong being seen on the map at all, the bonus part is I dont even have to get revealed for attacking because my pet is doing the damage. So all you will see is a lone gazelle running around the map oneshotting everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aomine.5012 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 > @huehuehueh.5106 said: > > @Madisonlee.9641 said: > > > @huehuehueh.5106 said: > > > hey anet, what in the bill cosby is this kitten? > > > https://i.imgur.com/1zuGTOl.jpg > > > > > > 26,252 + 8,507 +14,461 + 8,507 + 14,461 = > > > Instantly blasted with 72,188 damage FROM A PET. My health pool is 23k... > > > > > > Also no downstate lmao! > > > > That was my baby Papa Justify! > > > > Don't let any rangers in the thread fool you into thinking that it takes 100 buffs or some crazy kitten situation that leaves you otherwise useless to do that > > > > BM+Marksmanship, switch to deer, sic' em and maul. That's it. If the deer lands it, opponent is guaranteed dead. (deer has trouble landing it though) > > > > It's literal kitten, but then again, so are scourge condi and spellbreaker so... I'm going to enjoy one shotting them while it lasts ^^; > > > > Apologies for what my dirty deer did to you > > Haha No Problem. I am not even mad at this dude because he is just using the skills and abilities that anet gave him. I have personally not abused this because I believe it to be a unintended bug. What I want to know if this is purposeful on anets part, because if it is I am just going to make a full stealth ranger that hugs every second of stealth using trapper runes and all the stealth traits abilities, weapons, and combos just to prolong being seen on the map at all, the bonus part is I dont even have to get revealed for attacking because my pet is doing the damage. So all you will see is a lone gazelle running around the map oneshotting everyone. Do you know traps take utility slots too? Also Trap -cd trait is at Skirmishing, so how can you grab 4 trait lines? Also traps cd vs stealth uptime can not keep up your Stealth long enough, it's mostly used for defense/ escape measure, not offensive like Shadow Refuge. Seriously how come I never see this build a single time in pvp? Please go make this trap pet one-shot build and tell me how it goes, I'm all ear. I hope you're at least in platinum division while you try them in rank match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 > @Aomine.5012 said: > > @huehuehueh.5106 said: > > > @Madisonlee.9641 said: > > > > @huehuehueh.5106 said: > > > > hey anet, what in the bill cosby is this kitten? > > > > https://i.imgur.com/1zuGTOl.jpg > > > > > > > > 26,252 + 8,507 +14,461 + 8,507 + 14,461 = > > > > Instantly blasted with 72,188 damage FROM A PET. My health pool is 23k... > > > > > > > > Also no downstate lmao! > > > > > > That was my baby Papa Justify! > > > > > > Don't let any rangers in the thread fool you into thinking that it takes 100 buffs or some crazy kitten situation that leaves you otherwise useless to do that > > > > > > BM+Marksmanship, switch to deer, sic' em and maul. That's it. If the deer lands it, opponent is guaranteed dead. (deer has trouble landing it though) > > > > > > It's literal kitten, but then again, so are scourge condi and spellbreaker so... I'm going to enjoy one shotting them while it lasts ^^; > > > > > > Apologies for what my dirty deer did to you > > > > Haha No Problem. I am not even mad at this dude because he is just using the skills and abilities that anet gave him. I have personally not abused this because I believe it to be a unintended bug. What I want to know if this is purposeful on anets part, because if it is I am just going to make a full stealth ranger that hugs every second of stealth using trapper runes and all the stealth traits abilities, weapons, and combos just to prolong being seen on the map at all, the bonus part is I dont even have to get revealed for attacking because my pet is doing the damage. So all you will see is a lone gazelle running around the map oneshotting everyone. > > Do you know traps take utility slots too? > Also Trap -cd trait is at Skirmishing, so how can you grab 4 trait lines? > Also traps cd vs stealth uptime can not keep up your Stealth long enough, it's mostly used for defense/ escape measure, not offensive like Shadow Refuge. > > Seriously how come I never see this build a single time in pvp? > > Please go make this trap pet one-shot build and tell me how it goes, I'm all ear. > I hope you're at least in platinum division while you try them in rank match. > He's just joking, it would be useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arheundel.6451 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 > @Jinks.2057 said: > > @"Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582" said: > > > @Jinks.2057 said: > > > > @"Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582" said: > > > > @Frostball.9108 said: > > > > > > @"Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582" said: > > > > > > > @Frostball.9108 said: > > > > > > > A lot of people are trying to steer the conversation towards the obvious bug which is the downstate instakill. Stop trying to pretend as if the first hit damage is fine, its ludicrous and it needs a fix. I dont care in what way they fix it, they can remake the whole pet to make it useful or whatever but having something like this in the game is just not healthy, anyone could see that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To anyone claiming you need ridiculous setup for a big hit is wrong. If you check the clip you can see him swapping to his gazelle meaning he did not have time to buff the pet in ridiculous manner. I did not have high vuln stacks on me. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thief can do 16k+ from stealth or even more as deadeye from 1500 range with no more effort and does not need to try and work around bad AI to make it happen. You've been able to do this since launch with Drake F3 (actually even better before the SotW changes) and for years with Tiger F2, but where is the QQ about those? > > > > > > > > > > > > People may actually (have to) pay attention to Ranger pets and pet swapping instead of simply ignoring them completely or just walking in circles to avoid them. No doubt it will be nerfed though and people can just go on ignoring them. > > > > > > > > > > Deadeye has a clear tell and has to wait for 5 malice stacks in stealth which is much more effort than this without mentioning its a projectile. Working around the bad AI is significantly easier. You cant reach these numbers nearly as easily with the pets you mentioned. Youre trying to make it look like the gazelle charge damage is fine which it obviously isnt. Why would you use the gazelle charge if you can use the tiger to do the same thing while being more fluid? :) This is just making you look like an idiot. > > > > > > > > Deadeye can do it with no tell. You don't have to mark the target you are going to 1-shot, you can mark anything that can be targeted (I think that's a bug), cast shadow refuge, wait for malice and then bam, you are 1-shot from stealth and 1500 range. How is working around AI significantly easier than that? > > > > > > > > I'm not defending the actual damage from Gazelle, it's a bit absurd and the down-state bug is bad, but I am defending the ability to 1-shot with a full pet build. The fact that you can 1-shot people with a tiger or drakes just makes my point, it already exists in the game and it IS way more fluid with a Tiger because it's on the F2 which is half the CD as charge and you don't need to swap/stow to trigger it. Like I said, I have done 27k with tailswipe previously which is more than any of the initial hits people have screenshot the Gazelle doing, that was years ago. > > > > > > In PvP a thief cannot hit those numbers from any stealth attack period end of discussion. > > > > > > Now if you are talking about Death's Judgement the thief is instantly revealed & sits there for 3/4ths of a second with a huge targeting laser. The only way it gets complicated to dodge if the thief blows Haste to speed up the process. > > > > > > Gazelle charge needs to be nerfed by 50-60% minimum > > > > Yes I was referring to DJ, and the revealed is a bonus for the additional 200 power really. Deadeye can get at least to 38k from DJ. That's almost the same scenario the gazelle requires but from 1500 range, albeit a longer setup time, but it's very repeatable. From stowed/swapped it won't move for at least 3/4s, even if you blow Quickening Zephyr, likely Clarion Bond animation, an Attack of Opportunity and an Opening Strike with Remorseless, from melee range. If you do it from outside melee range you can literally just tap W, A, S or D and it will miss. > > > > 30% would be enough. > > No AI should hit that hard even after a 30% nerf. 50-60% and nerf further if needed. > > The DE isn't AI. That's a controlled player. Even a Scourge is a controlled player. Spellbreaker too. > > The Gazelle damage can't be defended and needs to go. You're right! Now why don't you go asking Anet to remove pets entirely and move their dmg to the actual ranger? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZhouX.8742 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 > @Arheundel.6451 said: > > @Jinks.2057 said: > > > @"Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582" said: > > > > @Jinks.2057 said: > > > > > @"Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582" said: > > > > > @Frostball.9108 said: > > > > > > > @"Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582" said: > > > > > > > > @Frostball.9108 said: > > > > > > > > A lot of people are trying to steer the conversation towards the obvious bug which is the downstate instakill. Stop trying to pretend as if the first hit damage is fine, its ludicrous and it needs a fix. I dont care in what way they fix it, they can remake the whole pet to make it useful or whatever but having something like this in the game is just not healthy, anyone could see that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To anyone claiming you need ridiculous setup for a big hit is wrong. If you check the clip you can see him swapping to his gazelle meaning he did not have time to buff the pet in ridiculous manner. I did not have high vuln stacks on me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thief can do 16k+ from stealth or even more as deadeye from 1500 range with no more effort and does not need to try and work around bad AI to make it happen. You've been able to do this since launch with Drake F3 (actually even better before the SotW changes) and for years with Tiger F2, but where is the QQ about those? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > People may actually (have to) pay attention to Ranger pets and pet swapping instead of simply ignoring them completely or just walking in circles to avoid them. No doubt it will be nerfed though and people can just go on ignoring them. > > > > > > > > > > > > Deadeye has a clear tell and has to wait for 5 malice stacks in stealth which is much more effort than this without mentioning its a projectile. Working around the bad AI is significantly easier. You cant reach these numbers nearly as easily with the pets you mentioned. Youre trying to make it look like the gazelle charge damage is fine which it obviously isnt. Why would you use the gazelle charge if you can use the tiger to do the same thing while being more fluid? :) This is just making you look like an idiot. > > > > > > > > > > Deadeye can do it with no tell. You don't have to mark the target you are going to 1-shot, you can mark anything that can be targeted (I think that's a bug), cast shadow refuge, wait for malice and then bam, you are 1-shot from stealth and 1500 range. How is working around AI significantly easier than that? > > > > > > > > > > I'm not defending the actual damage from Gazelle, it's a bit absurd and the down-state bug is bad, but I am defending the ability to 1-shot with a full pet build. The fact that you can 1-shot people with a tiger or drakes just makes my point, it already exists in the game and it IS way more fluid with a Tiger because it's on the F2 which is half the CD as charge and you don't need to swap/stow to trigger it. Like I said, I have done 27k with tailswipe previously which is more than any of the initial hits people have screenshot the Gazelle doing, that was years ago. > > > > > > > > In PvP a thief cannot hit those numbers from any stealth attack period end of discussion. > > > > > > > > Now if you are talking about Death's Judgement the thief is instantly revealed & sits there for 3/4ths of a second with a huge targeting laser. The only way it gets complicated to dodge if the thief blows Haste to speed up the process. > > > > > > > > Gazelle charge needs to be nerfed by 50-60% minimum > > > > > > Yes I was referring to DJ, and the revealed is a bonus for the additional 200 power really. Deadeye can get at least to 38k from DJ. That's almost the same scenario the gazelle requires but from 1500 range, albeit a longer setup time, but it's very repeatable. From stowed/swapped it won't move for at least 3/4s, even if you blow Quickening Zephyr, likely Clarion Bond animation, an Attack of Opportunity and an Opening Strike with Remorseless, from melee range. If you do it from outside melee range you can literally just tap W, A, S or D and it will miss. > > > > > > 30% would be enough. > > > > No AI should hit that hard even after a 30% nerf. 50-60% and nerf further if needed. > > > > The DE isn't AI. That's a controlled player. Even a Scourge is a controlled player. Spellbreaker too. > > > > The Gazelle damage can't be defended and needs to go. > > You're right! Now why don't you go asking Anet to remove pets entirely and move their dmg to the actual ranger? True , I agree... Make pets only utility and give all dmg coefficients and higher dmg to the ranger that we would lose with the pet. I honestly don't like relying on the pet as much as soulbeast/druid does in it's current state. Too many people would cry about ranger though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madisonlee.9641 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 @Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 reading up more I see now what you are getting at, and that's true: If you do work into setting up a pet burst for thing like tiger or drake, it -should- be able to one shot IMO; if work was put into that burst. I think the point of everyone right now is that deer can do that with literally no trying involved. Also to the people saying AI shouldn't have that kind of damage or whatever, seriously f you do you know how friggin wonky and hard the AI is to control in this game? lol Make deer able to hit people, fix its dumb "stare you down if you move" AI, remove multiple charge bug, and reduce charge damage by 40%. (more in line with tail swipe) Boom I fixed everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loboling.5293 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 I've yet to be 1 shot by a gazelle. I've certainly seen them deal spike damage, but the inconsistent damage is surely a bug. The one thing they seem good at right now (with this bug) is killing downed bodies. I'm all for fixing this bug, but what's making pvp super lame these days has very little to do with the gazelle... Anyway, I hope this bug gets fixed in time (even though I think it's interesting in it's own way, like the old flame trail on FGS), but if you can't handle the obvious set-up and tell from the one-shot pet ranger, you probably can't survive much in this meta. The build has been around for a while, but the gazelle is currently bugged to allow for absurd damage under very difficult to create circumstances. It was never meta, and will never be meta, once this bug is fixed on the gazelle, it'll be settled. I hope no other nerfs find their way to the ranger because of this one pet. Right now, all I want are some scourge nerfs to make the build require more skill. Unloading every condition in the game in aoe constantly is damn unfun for conquest. It's like if Dragonhunter traps never expired, just kept triggering once they finish. Sure you can kill them, but it's really bad design for conquest and takes away a lot of my enjoyment of pvp. Spellbreakers only need a few changes. I have played many builds that can fight them on point forever, and while that is only fun when I control the point, they are clearly the new top dog roamer. So: -Nerf Scourge in pvp -Shave spellbreaker sustain (they should need a defensive amulet like I do to fight them on point) -Fix Gazelle bug In that order please. Although feel free to do it all at once. But if you do, I'd like you to start looking into a new burst mesmer build that can burst way too hard in pvp. They are certainly not a strong priority, since there are counters, but I think a slight 15-20% nerf to mind wrack numbers in pvp would fix this, and not destroy their overall damage. Mind wrack hit my ranger for over 14k yesterday, and with the new deception clone, they are getting 3 clone openers. That is the real cause of the damage increase. When done from stealth, I was hit for about 19k without any tell. This happened twice, before I basically followed the mesmer all game so he couldn't get the jump on me. At least if you see the mesmer stealth you can react, like fighting a thief. But there are ways in this game to stack stealth, so you shouldn't be able to open for 19k dmg instant from stealth in pvp. Nothing in pvp should hit harder than 8k, unless you have to jump through hoops visibly in front of your opponent. I'm actually okay with being one shot by some builds, and learning the tells and avoiding it. But, stealth openers should never hit that hard in pvp. Anyway, I'm getting sidetracked. Fix the gazelle, but don't nerf the ranger pet build. It's a silly, but fun build to play in unranked or hotjoin. Although, I'd never stand much of a chance in plat with that build. (And I made it to plat last season on zerker staff ele, and trust me, you're more helpless with a ranger build with all utilities and skills focused on that one hit. Although it's a lot better for 1v1 than zerk staff ele) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unholy Pillager.3791 Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 > @Arheundel.6451 said: > > @Jinks.2057 said: > > > @"Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582" said: > > > > @Jinks.2057 said: > > > > > @"Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582" said: > > > > > @Frostball.9108 said: > > > > > > > @"Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582" said: > > > > > > > > @Frostball.9108 said: > > > > > > > > A lot of people are trying to steer the conversation towards the obvious bug which is the downstate instakill. Stop trying to pretend as if the first hit damage is fine, its ludicrous and it needs a fix. I dont care in what way they fix it, they can remake the whole pet to make it useful or whatever but having something like this in the game is just not healthy, anyone could see that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To anyone claiming you need ridiculous setup for a big hit is wrong. If you check the clip you can see him swapping to his gazelle meaning he did not have time to buff the pet in ridiculous manner. I did not have high vuln stacks on me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thief can do 16k+ from stealth or even more as deadeye from 1500 range with no more effort and does not need to try and work around bad AI to make it happen. You've been able to do this since launch with Drake F3 (actually even better before the SotW changes) and for years with Tiger F2, but where is the QQ about those? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > People may actually (have to) pay attention to Ranger pets and pet swapping instead of simply ignoring them completely or just walking in circles to avoid them. No doubt it will be nerfed though and people can just go on ignoring them. > > > > > > > > > > > > Deadeye has a clear tell and has to wait for 5 malice stacks in stealth which is much more effort than this without mentioning its a projectile. Working around the bad AI is significantly easier. You cant reach these numbers nearly as easily with the pets you mentioned. Youre trying to make it look like the gazelle charge damage is fine which it obviously isnt. Why would you use the gazelle charge if you can use the tiger to do the same thing while being more fluid? :) This is just making you look like an idiot. > > > > > > > > > > Deadeye can do it with no tell. You don't have to mark the target you are going to 1-shot, you can mark anything that can be targeted (I think that's a bug), cast shadow refuge, wait for malice and then bam, you are 1-shot from stealth and 1500 range. How is working around AI significantly easier than that? > > > > > > > > > > I'm not defending the actual damage from Gazelle, it's a bit absurd and the down-state bug is bad, but I am defending the ability to 1-shot with a full pet build. The fact that you can 1-shot people with a tiger or drakes just makes my point, it already exists in the game and it IS way more fluid with a Tiger because it's on the F2 which is half the CD as charge and you don't need to swap/stow to trigger it. Like I said, I have done 27k with tailswipe previously which is more than any of the initial hits people have screenshot the Gazelle doing, that was years ago. > > > > > > > > In PvP a thief cannot hit those numbers from any stealth attack period end of discussion. > > > > > > > > Now if you are talking about Death's Judgement the thief is instantly revealed & sits there for 3/4ths of a second with a huge targeting laser. The only way it gets complicated to dodge if the thief blows Haste to speed up the process. > > > > > > > > Gazelle charge needs to be nerfed by 50-60% minimum > > > > > > Yes I was referring to DJ, and the revealed is a bonus for the additional 200 power really. Deadeye can get at least to 38k from DJ. That's almost the same scenario the gazelle requires but from 1500 range, albeit a longer setup time, but it's very repeatable. From stowed/swapped it won't move for at least 3/4s, even if you blow Quickening Zephyr, likely Clarion Bond animation, an Attack of Opportunity and an Opening Strike with Remorseless, from melee range. If you do it from outside melee range you can literally just tap W, A, S or D and it will miss. > > > > > > 30% would be enough. > > > > No AI should hit that hard even after a 30% nerf. 50-60% and nerf further if needed. > > > > The DE isn't AI. That's a controlled player. Even a Scourge is a controlled player. Spellbreaker too. > > > > The Gazelle damage can't be defended and needs to go. > > You're right! Now why don't you go asking Anet to remove pets entirely and move their dmg to the actual ranger? And cc, and fields, and finishers. That's probably the biggest factor in my decision to go from ranger main to engineer main: all of my cc, fields and finishers are where I need them, when I need them, rather than subject to the whims of a buggy AI. That, and the fact that engineers get far more of those things than rangers in the first place, pet or no. I really think rangers were much better implemented in GW1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 > @"Unholy Pillager.3791" said: > I really think rangers were much better implemented in GW1. You're not wrong. Ranger was an afterthought for GW2 and made up of two different classes they just merged, Warden and Marksman. You can tell even they were afterthoughts too because all the best skills and mechanics Ranger had in GW were given to other classes in GW2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unholy Pillager.3791 Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 > @"Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582" said: > > @"Unholy Pillager.3791" said: > > I really think rangers were much better implemented in GW1. > You're not wrong. Ranger was an afterthought for GW2 and made up of two different classes they just merged, Warden and Marksman. You can tell even they were afterthoughts too because all the best skills and mechanics Ranger had in GW were given to other classes in GW2. > I almost wish they could make an elite change the skills on an existing weapon rather than giving a new weapon. Maybe make something along the lines of the old burning arrow/apply poison/interrupt build using longbow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 > @"Unholy Pillager.3791" said: > > @"Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582" said: > > > @"Unholy Pillager.3791" said: > > > I really think rangers were much better implemented in GW1. > > You're not wrong. Ranger was an afterthought for GW2 and made up of two different classes they just merged, Warden and Marksman. You can tell even they were afterthoughts too because all the best skills and mechanics Ranger had in GW were given to other classes in GW2. > > > > I almost wish they could make an elite change the skills on an existing weapon rather than giving a new weapon. Maybe make something along the lines of the old burning arrow/apply poison/interrupt build using longbow. This should bring back some memories. I mostly played these builds; https://imgur.com/eJRQHuC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazze.9870 Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 > @Nix.3152 said: > why pets should do more dmg than ranger himself? how can you play a class that does less dmg than his AI? pets should be utility in my opinion - condi removal, cc, chills, immobs etc > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said: > I talked to the skills team about this, they are looking at it. Maybe you could talk to them about quickness not working on more than half of the pets. Or that beastmatery doesn't reduce cooldowns on the new pets. Or that some pets are still stuck with low range autos that hits nothing. Etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 > @Lazze.9870 said: > > @Nix.3152 said: > > why pets should do more dmg than ranger himself? how can you play a class that does less dmg than his AI? pets should be utility in my opinion - condi removal, cc, chills, immobs etc > > > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said: > > I talked to the skills team about this, they are looking at it. > > Maybe you could talk to them about quickness not working on more than half of the pets. Or that beastmatery doesn't reduce cooldowns on the new pets. Or that some pets are still stuck with low range autos that hits nothing. > > Etc. Yes, exactly. Gazelle is getting used currently because it has a bug that allows it to be useful. If you could make some other pets useful, that would be great, cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazze.9870 Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 > @Elxdark.9702 said: > Incredible to see the day where rangers were so used to their pets to do their main damage and crying over a clearly bugged pet that does more than a backstab steal combo. > Same happened with Bristleback and they nerfed it because it was doing crazy damage, smokescale does about 50% damage alone just from AA while the ranger just spam ccs on you. > > I miss the pre hot times where you actually had to use your pet to timing your f2 with your dps rotation, fear, immobilize, stun etc. > Now it's spam ccs and let your pet do the damage for you. > > Pets are supposed to help the rangers, not to do their job but Anet failed to realize this and look now, players crying over because they will nerf their main damage which comes from a freaking pet. Get over yourself. Rangers have lower power damage on their weapons for having a pet in the first place (can tell just by reading your comments that you had no idea). Simply by that fact alone, pets *need* to do reliable damage **or** Anet needs to start buffing some of our weapon coefficients. To have them be nothing more than well timed CC bots like the wolf used to be some years ago isn't good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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