The problems with Herald

[Ovark.2514]

This is the only spec that can survive an entire team's onslaught on it's own without relying on stealth or even putting any stats (or traits really) into sustain. How is this a thing in 2019? All other classes that play a glass build have to make sacrifices for more stunbreaks. Not rev! Herald has access to essentially endless stunbreaks without losing any damage or CC. This stunbreak capability might be OK as long as it didn't have the other defenses to fall back on but lo and behold, Herald not only has defenses, but they are almost all GENERAL defenses. This means Blocks, Evades, Blinds, and a heal skill which absorbs ALL types of damage and granting invulnerability. Other classes have to decide the KIND of defenses to take. Like as an ele do I want condi removal or protection . . . ? These are the questions a Herald player never has to ask because they get something better. Hmm that sounds bad, but wait until you add on the ability to simul-cast abilities! You thought you could time your abilities well enough to best a Herald, better think again because just as you were about to CC or damage them as their Surge of the Mists was ending, they activate Facet of Darkness and woopsie daisy, you missed! Speaking about Surge of the Mists, did I mention how it's got no wind-up? That's right, you can just expect a brutal CC at a moment's notice that also is an evade. Oh that's right! Did I mention how many of the offensive abilities are also defensive abilities! I mean, we wouldn't want to have to make a Herald player think about defending rather than attacking. It's OK though, because, Herald's can't stealth and as long as you can see him coming you can shoot him down. Oh my I almost forgot! Revs can port to you through walls and gain quickness to boot. Good Luck out there!

 

So changes I would like to see: Change the sustain from weapon skills and Shiro and Glint to be more situational and less general.

Replace stunbreak on Legend Swap with something else.

Replace Warding Rift with something more specific and not a Block/blind

Give a wind-up to Surge of the Mists

Require LoS for teleports

Phase Traversal now only grants Quickness, Unblockable, and Increased Damage when the port strikes the foe's back.

Swapping Legends now has an cast time.

 

Implement these changes and then buff rev in other ways if needed afterwards.

 

[ollbirtan.2915]

Not sure if the OP is trolling or, perhaps, plays a different game.

[Master Ketsu.4569]

You know someone has an L2P problem when they complain about infused light.

 

[Elrond.9486]

What lol, Rev is extremely one trick rn but op-level sustaining/just diving into a team fight is not it. And the average Rev's skill/ability rotation tends to be extremely predictable. The real problem with Rev rn is that basically the entire class relies on one build's overtuned burst damage, which does need to to be toned down but more importantly the other parts of the profession need to somehow be fleshed out to give the class somewhere to go once this build gets nerfed. It might be the least build-diverse class in the game.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Lol this has to be a troll post, revs all one trick burst engagement and no disengagement.herald has one good heal with glint and not alot of stun breaks lol

[Ralkuth.1456]

I had a laugh; good fluff post.

[Edge.8724]

You are talking about a profession that requires high skills to be played correctly, right?

 

So technically, you were destroyed by a very skilled player and now you want to nerf an already underperforming spec.

 

Also, do you know that it is really hard for a Revenant in general to get rid of conditions? Try to use it at your advantage.

 

Revenant also lacks reliable sources of stability. "Endless stunbreak" ? This really confuses me, because it is really easy to CC a revenant. He might have one or 2 stunbreaks in any builds. All of them with cooldowns.

 

So a revenant can now survive a complete ennemy team's attack? That looks new... Sustain isn't really good either... You mean you couldn't out-dps the healing of Enchanted Daggers?

 

This post really confuses me.

[incisorr.9502]

i don't see any trolling to be honest

 

anyone whos ever seen a 1.7k+ rev knows what he's talking about, endless stunbreaks and evades is true

 

> @"Edge.8724" said:

> You are talking about a profession that requires high skills to be played correctly, right?

>

> So technically, you were destroyed by a very skilled player and now you want to nerf an already underperforming spec.

 

 

1st: a class requiring more skill shouldn't be a reason for that class to be broken because eventually people will learn to play. Everyone wants his class to require more skill and have more potential so using that as a justification to a class being broken is just unintelligent and bad argument

2nd: revenant is not an "already underperforming spec" it's the best class in the game, by far, and has been for awhile now

 

just because revenant was bad in 2017 it doesn't mean it's still bad, i don't get people in this forum. This game changes drastically every half a year and the meta changes every patch and yet somehow you still have people popping outta nowhere with their outdated impressions and knowledge and thinking they're spitting fire when in reality they just look silly

 

revenant underperforming XDDDDDDDDDDDDD in 2019 XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

 

 

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> Lol this has to be a troll post, revs all one trick burst engagement and no disengagement.herald has one good heal with glint and not alot of stun breaks lol

 

how does rev have no disengagement? it has a no cooldown backwards iframe with stunbreak on shiro and it has a stunbreak on 10s on legend swap on top of that

 

and a block on staff

 

and an iframe on staff (with cc)

 

and an iframe on sword

 

and 3 teleports that can also be used to disengage cause they dont need you to be in range of your target so you can target anyone out of the fight and use them as mobility

 

rev no disengage btw pepega

[Edge.8724]

> @"incisorr.9502" said:

> i don't see any trolling to be honest

>

> anyone whos ever seen a 1.7k+ rev knows what he's talking about, endless stunbreaks and evades is true

>

> > @"Edge.8724" said:

> > You are talking about a profession that requires high skills to be played correctly, right?

> >

> > So technically, you were destroyed by a very skilled player and now you want to nerf an already underperforming spec.

>

>

> 1st: a class requiring more skill shouldn't be a reason for that class to be broken because eventually people will learn to play. Everyone wants his class to require more skill and have more potential so using that as a justification to a class being broken is just unintelligent and bad argument

> 2nd: revenant is not an "already underperforming spec" it's the best class in the game, by far, and has been for awhile now

>

> just because revenant was bad in 2017 it doesn't mean it's still bad, i don't get people in this forum. This game changes drastically every half a year and the meta changes every patch and yet somehow you still have people popping outta nowhere with their outdated impressions and knowledge and thinking they're spitting fire when in reality they just look silly

>

> revenant underperforming XDDDDDDDDDDDDD in 2019 XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

>

>

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > Lol this has to be a troll post, revs all one trick burst engagement and no disengagement.herald has one good heal with glint and not alot of stun breaks lol

>

> how does rev have no disengagement? it has a no cooldown backwards iframe with stunbreak on shiro and it has a stunbreak on 10s on legend swap on top of that

>

> and a block on staff

>

> and an iframe on staff (with cc)

>

> and an iframe on sword

>

> and 3 teleports that can also be used to disengage cause they dont need you to be in range of your target so you can target anyone out of the fight and use them as mobility

>

> rev no disengage btw pepega

 

I'm sorry we couldn't get on a serious discussion with this subject while you use things like judging my knowledge of the class and passively laughing at some statements of mine.

 

I do play Revenant. In 2019.

 

The profession is far from beeing overtuned. You and the OP only don't know how to fight properly against a Revenant.

 

How am I supposed to see someone who uses words like "endless evades and stunbreaks" like a serious person? That statement of yours can only be false and exagerated.

 

So, for the classic Herald build that is commonly played in PvP, its stunbreaks are:

 

From utility skills:

-Riposting Shadow. = Ok, no cooldown, at the cost of lots of energy which you need for your weapons and your other utiliy skills.

 

-Gaze of Darkness. = 15 seconds cooldown and apply blinds. There isn't really anything overtuned with this. A classic defensive skill.

 

Stunbreak on swapping legends if you use the invocation trait line.

 

That's it for the breakstuns. For a total of 3. You also need to predict when these tools will be available too.

 

For evades;

 

-The classic 2 Dodges everyone has access to.

 

-Unrelenting Assault on Sword main hand is an evade. This skill has been there since the beggining. I don't know how it suddently got overtuned.

 

-Surge of the Mist on Staff. Again like Sword. It doesn't deal a lot pf dammage and it takes a lot of energy to use it. I'm not sure again how it suddently got overpowered.

 

-Riposting Shadows on utility skill bar with the legend Shiro. Same thing with the other skills I named, not sure how it is suddently overtuned.

 

And that's it for the evade. I fail to see the endless evades ans breakstuns you were claiming Revenant has.

 

There has been a rework on the Elite Spec, However, the build still plays the same as it was a long time ago. I still plays it sometimes as well as fighting against some and I can't find Revenant overtuned when I'm against them.

 

Ah yes, the one good heal on Glint that you have to take dammage to get healed. As you said though, one good heal. I may add to that, it is probably the only good healing skill on Revenant as well. Shiro's Enchanted Daggers is merely just a bit of sustain with a minor heal to it at the start of the skill's activation.

 

I can't see how I should take you for a serious person if you conclude your post by laughing at the person you were answering to.

 

As for me, If you think Revenant is too overtuned, it's still a learn to play problem.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

I swear people die few times to a class in a row and to them its godly op than they go on forums speaking so much hyperbole lol.endless evades and stunbreaks?what? Incisor u love ur condi mirage yet reva prob the weakest class vs condi? Did u die to a few good rev?now their up there with thieves in ur op classes? It's like the classes u think are op the majority of people think are no where near op and the classes everyone thinks are op (condi mirage post patch) u think are fine.hmm I wonder

[Za Shaloc.3908]

A cast time on legend swap? Did I read that correctly? Is that actually a suggestion? Dear god.

 

Also, removing stunbreak on legend swap and the defenses on staff is a guaranteed way of throwing off-meta rev builds further into the dumpster fire. There are certain builds that have very poor access to stunbreaks. Ventari, for example has zero stunbreaks. Mallyx's stunbreak has a cast time which often has to be dodged out of to avoid follow-up burst and CC, nullifying the other effects of the skill. Jalis has a long cast time on its stunbreak and it costs 40 energy. While it has access to stab, it does not last long and requires the player to stay on the road.

 

The one thing I can agree on with what you said is that Phase Traversal could be toned down a bit.

[Vasdamas Anklast.1607]

Well bitch revenant doesn't have save stomp (and no save cheese res as well). It doesn't have high uptime protection. It doesn't have endure pain, stability stance or stone signet. It doesn't even have a great sustain for extended fight and it's role is +1. Infuse the light is useless if your enemy is aware of it and doesn't have 80 years old grandpa reflexes.

But yeah let's complain about it (i mean let mesmers cunts continue manipulating the balance) and pretend we never got hit by mindwrack for 8k as bunkers.

 

P.S incisorr.9502 KYS mesmer cunt

 

[mes.4607]

In theory, Rev should be the **easiest** profession to balance. It's literally forced to take 1 utility for each slot. Hopefully the new (I think there's a new one - or added members) balance team can figure things out. Right now, Rev does NOT feel like a heavy armor profession. Too much of Rev's healing is affixed to dealing damage... give it more passive healing like the other heavies

[Ovark.2514]

Oh and I was thinking about it more and came up with other beneficial changes:

Glint Heal now only turns damage into healing if you are not CCd

Facet of Darkness passive now has a 1/2 sec cast time

[Sampson.2403]

Oh come on the only broken thing that Rev has is the ability to LoS teleport busrt. The rest of the kit isn't even close to OP when you compare it to everything else that exists in the current meta.

[LucianDK.8615]

Learn to predict the glint heal. without attacking, no healing. And otherwise rev heals are extremely pitiful. The op doesnt know what he is talking about.

[Buran.3796]

> @"incisorr.9502" said:

 

> how does rev have no disengagement? it has a no cooldown backwards iframe with stunbreak on shiro and it has a stunbreak on 10s on legend swap on top of that

>

> and a block on staff

>

> and an iframe on staff (with cc)

>

> and an iframe on sword

>

> and 3 teleports that can also be used to disengage cause they dont need you to be in range of your target so you can target anyone out of the fight and use them as mobility

>

> rev no disengage btw pepega

 

Any time Rev swaps to staff their weapon damage drops to almost 0, for 10 seconds. Their only viable build (for 3.5 years) lacks access to stability and is very weak vs conditions, and is a pure close range fighter with 0 pressure at range which can be easily poked.

[incisorr.9502]

imagine saying with a straight face that rev has no damage on staff when i've been hit by staff with daggers for 15k dmg

 

with unblockable

 

aoe knockdown

 

XD

 

 

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"incisorr.9502" said:

> imagine saying with a straight face that rev has no damage on staff when i've been hit by staff with daggers for 15k dmg

>

> with unblockable

>

> aoe knockdown

>

> XD

>

>

Damage on staff is indeed garbage. Never been a dps weapon except staff 5 but that skills dps was nerfed hard.

[incisorr.9502]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > @"incisorr.9502" said:

> > imagine saying with a straight face that rev has no damage on staff when i've been hit by staff with daggers for 15k dmg

> >

> > with unblockable

> >

> > aoe knockdown

> >

> > XD

> >

> >

> Damage on staff is indeed garbage. Never been a dps weapon except staff 5 but that skills dps was nerfed hard.

 

compared to sword it might be garbage but compared to other damage in gw2 it's not

 

it might not be the highest dmg in the game but it's not 0 and staff 5 might've been nerfed hard but it still does ridiculous dmg to squishy builds

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"incisorr.9502" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"incisorr.9502" said:

> > > imagine saying with a straight face that rev has no damage on staff when i've been hit by staff with daggers for 15k dmg

> > >

> > > with unblockable

> > >

> > > aoe knockdown

> > >

> > > XD

> > >

> > >

> > Damage on staff is indeed garbage. Never been a dps weapon except staff 5 but that skills dps was nerfed hard.

>

> compared to sword it might be garbage but compared to other damage in gw2 it's not

>

> it might not be the highest dmg in the game but it's not 0 and staff 5 might've been nerfed hard but it still does ridiculous dmg to squishy builds

 

No it's pretty much garbo compared to other classes dps weapons but its inline as a utility weapon.do wish staff 5 was buffed a little,not to where it was tho.

[Moirg.7560]

Stopped reading after first sentence. Herald sustain is pathetic outside of the 3s regent facet which you can completely play around (dont attack it).

 

L2P issue.

[vyncius.6105]

revenants have no condi cleanse, thats biggest weakness of the class.

[dominik.9721]

> @"vyncius.6105" said:

> revenants have no condi cleanse, thats biggest weakness of the class.

 

False. As many times proven correctly, Rev hardcounters condi mirage while scourge dies meanwhile in cleave.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"dominik.9721" said:

> > @"vyncius.6105" said:

> > revenants have no condi cleanse, thats biggest weakness of the class.

>

> False. As many times proven correctly, Rev hardcounters condi mirage while scourge dies meanwhile in cleave.

 

Hmm I've always heard condi mirage counters rev as well due to garbage condi removal.i mean their condi removals so bad u gotta trait to clean one condi on legend swap.gues u can do another 1 cleanse on staff to