Thief gameplay ? 3 dodge -> gameplay dps = 0 dodge ? WHY

[Maylan.1796]

hello,

Why Dardevil Have 3 dodge if his gameplay need 0 dodge for the meta dps ?

Why survival's thief is only on dodge but gameplay is 0 dodge ?

To survival you need dodge but Dps need 0 dodge ? how i survival ?

[InsaneQR.7412]

Well I try to explain it simple:

Top DPS->Raid

Raid->Healer

Healer->Survival

[derd.6413]

because in raids keeping you alive is mostly the healers job.

[Maylan.1796]

and fotm ?

you never dodge ?

[Maylan.1796]

> @"derd.6413" said:

> because in raids keeping you alive is mostly the healers job.

 

and you never dodge ? vg gors sloth kc samarog deimos Ac largos qadim?

you need to doge all bump but you can t because the meta need 0 endurance

And gw2 is not only raid . FOTM too and you have too many bump to doge or double dodge

and meta dps need 0 endurance but the problem is chrono give endurance during burst and we lose 15% dps on burst

thief meta dps is broken

 

 

[InsaneQR.7412]

> @"Maylan.1796" said:

> > @"derd.6413" said:

> > because in raids keeping you alive is mostly the healers job.

>

> and you never dodge ? vg gors sloth kc samarog deimos Ac largos qadim?

> you need to doge all bump but you can t because the meta need 0 endurance

> And gw2 is not only raid . FOTM too and you have too many bump to doge or double dodge

> and meta dps need 0 endurance but the problem is chrono give endurance during burst and we lose 15% dps on burst

> thief meta dps is broken

>

>

 

If you need 0 endurance you are constantly dodging. You can save one bar for survival dodges. Additionally you can use the heal skill to gain endurance.

Big hits are telegraphed very well.

[Maylan.1796]

> @"InsaneQR.7412" said:

> > @"Maylan.1796" said:

> > > @"derd.6413" said:

> > > because in raids keeping you alive is mostly the healers job.

> >

> > and you never dodge ? vg gors sloth kc samarog deimos Ac largos qadim?

> > you need to doge all bump but you can t because the meta need 0 endurance

> > And gw2 is not only raid . FOTM too and you have too many bump to doge or double dodge

> > and meta dps need 0 endurance but the problem is chrono give endurance during burst and we lose 15% dps on burst

> > thief meta dps is broken

> >

> >

>

> If you need 0 endurance you are constantly dodging. You can save one bar for survival dodges. Additionally you can use the heal skill to gain endurance.

> Big hits are telegraphed very well.

 

yes you can but you lose 5% dps or more if you save . and if you use this heal you cant stealth for the burst and this heal is not instant

if you save dodge you lose many dps and thief are useless

if you save 1 dodge you lose 3k dps and its realy not good dps 31k

and the other prob its the Chrono regen endurance we lose many dps at final we have 34k5 dps benchmark but now i think we have 30k max in real

they killed the gameplay of DD

wait 2-3 weeks and you see how DD is dead in the meta

[InsaneQR.7412]

> @"Maylan.1796" said:

> > @"InsaneQR.7412" said:

> > > @"Maylan.1796" said:

> > > > @"derd.6413" said:

> > > > because in raids keeping you alive is mostly the healers job.

> > >

> > > and you never dodge ? vg gors sloth kc samarog deimos Ac largos qadim?

> > > you need to doge all bump but you can t because the meta need 0 endurance

> > > And gw2 is not only raid . FOTM too and you have too many bump to doge or double dodge

> > > and meta dps need 0 endurance but the problem is chrono give endurance during burst and we lose 15% dps on burst

> > > thief meta dps is broken

> > >

> > >

> >

> > If you need 0 endurance you are constantly dodging. You can save one bar for survival dodges. Additionally you can use the heal skill to gain endurance.

> > Big hits are telegraphed very well.

>

> yes you can but you lose 5% dps or more if you save . and if you use this heal you cant stealth for the burst and this heal is not instant

> if you save dodge you lose many dps and thief are useless

>

> if you save 1 dodge you lose 3k dps and its realy not good dps 31k

 

Benchmarks are not realistic.

Minus 3k dps loss is pretty standard for other ppl that have to go out of danger.

Its fine.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"Maylan.1796" said:

> > @"InsaneQR.7412" said:

> > > @"Maylan.1796" said:

> > > > @"derd.6413" said:

> > > > because in raids keeping you alive is mostly the healers job.

> > >

> > > and you never dodge ? vg gors sloth kc samarog deimos Ac largos qadim?

> > > you need to doge all bump but you can t because the meta need 0 endurance

> > > And gw2 is not only raid . FOTM too and you have too many bump to doge or double dodge

> > > and meta dps need 0 endurance but the problem is chrono give endurance during burst and we lose 15% dps on burst

> > > thief meta dps is broken

> > >

> > >

> >

> > If you need 0 endurance you are constantly dodging. You can save one bar for survival dodges. Additionally you can use the heal skill to gain endurance.

> > Big hits are telegraphed very well.

>

> yes you can but you lose 5% dps or more if you save . and if you use this heal you cant stealth for the burst and this heal is not instant

> if you save dodge you lose many dps and thief are useless

>

> if you save 1 dodge you lose 3k dps and its realy not good dps 31k

> and the other prob its the Chrono regen endurance we lose many dps at final we have 34k5 dps benchmark but now i think we have 30k max in real

> they killed the gameplay of DD

> wait 2-3 weeks and you see how DD is dead in the meta

 

DD was barely meta as it was especially if talking staff, this patch just cemented its feet and threw it from the meta bridge lol

[Maylan.1796]

yes they kill the meta thief

DE and DD its finish.

we cant heal we cant support we cant cDPS and now we cant pDPS Anet realy hate thief

And i dont know why they dont fixe " Practiced tolerence " 2 years he dont work with " signet of agility "and" spotter " ( and fotm pots) we lose so many damage

 

[UNOwen.7132]

> @"InsaneQR.7412" said:

> > @"Maylan.1796" said:

> > > @"InsaneQR.7412" said:

> > > > @"Maylan.1796" said:

> > > > > @"derd.6413" said:

> > > > > because in raids keeping you alive is mostly the healers job.

> > > >

> > > > and you never dodge ? vg gors sloth kc samarog deimos Ac largos qadim?

> > > > you need to doge all bump but you can t because the meta need 0 endurance

> > > > And gw2 is not only raid . FOTM too and you have too many bump to doge or double dodge

> > > > and meta dps need 0 endurance but the problem is chrono give endurance during burst and we lose 15% dps on burst

> > > > thief meta dps is broken

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > If you need 0 endurance you are constantly dodging. You can save one bar for survival dodges. Additionally you can use the heal skill to gain endurance.

> > > Big hits are telegraphed very well.

> >

> > yes you can but you lose 5% dps or more if you save . and if you use this heal you cant stealth for the burst and this heal is not instant

> > if you save dodge you lose many dps and thief are useless

> >

> > if you save 1 dodge you lose 3k dps and its realy not good dps 31k

>

> Benchmarks are not realistic.

> Minus 3k dps loss is pretty standard for other ppl that have to go out of danger.

> Its fine.

 

I believe youre missing the point. You dont lose 3k for having to adapt to danger. You lose 3k for *having the ability to adapt to danger*. If you actually adapt to danger, you likewise lose DPS like everyone else. Except your starting point is lower. Youre just worse than most DPS builds.

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

> @"InsaneQR.7412" said:

> > @"Maylan.1796" said:

> > > @"derd.6413" said:

> > > because in raids keeping you alive is mostly the healers job.

> >

> > and you never dodge ? vg gors sloth kc samarog deimos Ac largos qadim?

> > you need to doge all bump but you can t because the meta need 0 endurance

> > And gw2 is not only raid . FOTM too and you have too many bump to doge or double dodge

> > and meta dps need 0 endurance but the problem is chrono give endurance during burst and we lose 15% dps on burst

> > thief meta dps is broken

> >

> >

>

> If you need 0 endurance you are constantly dodging. You can save one bar for survival dodges. Additionally you can use the heal skill to gain endurance.

> Big hits are telegraphed very well.

 

He's talking about Havoc Specialist where you get DPS buff of 15% damage with zero Endurance Bar. Since Chrono keeps giving him Endurance, it keeps lowering his DPS.

[InsaneQR.7412]

> @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:

> > @"InsaneQR.7412" said:

> > > @"Maylan.1796" said:

> > > > @"derd.6413" said:

> > > > because in raids keeping you alive is mostly the healers job.

> > >

> > > and you never dodge ? vg gors sloth kc samarog deimos Ac largos qadim?

> > > you need to doge all bump but you can t because the meta need 0 endurance

> > > And gw2 is not only raid . FOTM too and you have too many bump to doge or double dodge

> > > and meta dps need 0 endurance but the problem is chrono give endurance during burst and we lose 15% dps on burst

> > > thief meta dps is broken

> > >

> > >

> >

> > If you need 0 endurance you are constantly dodging. You can save one bar for survival dodges. Additionally you can use the heal skill to gain endurance.

> > Big hits are telegraphed very well.

>

> He's talking about Havoc Specialist where you get DPS buff of 15% damage with zero Endurance Bar. Since Chrono keeps giving him Endurance, it keeps lowering his DPS.

 

I know but didn't you used dodges in previous dmg rotations?

I understand why OP is complaining but I don't think it's that much of an issue.

[UNOwen.7132]

> @"InsaneQR.7412" said:

> > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:

> > > @"InsaneQR.7412" said:

> > > > @"Maylan.1796" said:

> > > > > @"derd.6413" said:

> > > > > because in raids keeping you alive is mostly the healers job.

> > > >

> > > > and you never dodge ? vg gors sloth kc samarog deimos Ac largos qadim?

> > > > you need to doge all bump but you can t because the meta need 0 endurance

> > > > And gw2 is not only raid . FOTM too and you have too many bump to doge or double dodge

> > > > and meta dps need 0 endurance but the problem is chrono give endurance during burst and we lose 15% dps on burst

> > > > thief meta dps is broken

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > If you need 0 endurance you are constantly dodging. You can save one bar for survival dodges. Additionally you can use the heal skill to gain endurance.

> > > Big hits are telegraphed very well.

> >

> > He's talking about Havoc Specialist where you get DPS buff of 15% damage with zero Endurance Bar. Since Chrono keeps giving him Endurance, it keeps lowering his DPS.

>

> I know but didn't you used dodges in previous dmg rotations?

> I understand why OP is complaining but I don't think it's that much of an issue.

 

You used one. You had the standard 2 to actually dodge in case things went south. Now you have none. Youre basically on the level of risk that old dodge-based Rifle Deadeye had, except Rifle Deadeye had 40k DPS and still wasnt viable. Daredevil doesnt even break 35k DPS.

[Maylan.1796]

> @"InsaneQR.7412" said:

> > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:

> > > @"InsaneQR.7412" said:

> > > > @"Maylan.1796" said:

> > > > > @"derd.6413" said:

> > > > > because in raids keeping you alive is mostly the healers job.

> > > >

> > > > and you never dodge ? vg gors sloth kc samarog deimos Ac largos qadim?

> > > > you need to doge all bump but you can t because the meta need 0 endurance

> > > > And gw2 is not only raid . FOTM too and you have too many bump to doge or double dodge

> > > > and meta dps need 0 endurance but the problem is chrono give endurance during burst and we lose 15% dps on burst

> > > > thief meta dps is broken

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > If you need 0 endurance you are constantly dodging. You can save one bar for survival dodges. Additionally you can use the heal skill to gain endurance.

> > > Big hits are telegraphed very well.

> >

> > He's talking about Havoc Specialist where you get DPS buff of 15% damage with zero Endurance Bar. Since Chrono keeps giving him Endurance, it keeps lowering his DPS.

>

> I know but didn't you used dodges in previous dmg rotations?

> I understand why OP is complaining but I don't think it's that much of an issue.

 

i think you dont play the new DD

go play and you understand why is just a useless build

0 fun low dps they kill the gameplay ( DD is a 100% melee dps who cant save dodge or he lose many many many many dps )

[Ensign.2189]

Power DD was buffed and benchmarks above 35k this patch. Outside of very high burst fights (and groups) it is the highest performing power DPS in raids.

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

> @"InsaneQR.7412" said:

> > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:

> > > @"InsaneQR.7412" said:

> > > > @"Maylan.1796" said:

> > > > > @"derd.6413" said:

> > > > > because in raids keeping you alive is mostly the healers job.

> > > >

> > > > and you never dodge ? vg gors sloth kc samarog deimos Ac largos qadim?

> > > > you need to doge all bump but you can t because the meta need 0 endurance

> > > > And gw2 is not only raid . FOTM too and you have too many bump to doge or double dodge

> > > > and meta dps need 0 endurance but the problem is chrono give endurance during burst and we lose 15% dps on burst

> > > > thief meta dps is broken

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > If you need 0 endurance you are constantly dodging. You can save one bar for survival dodges. Additionally you can use the heal skill to gain endurance.

> > > Big hits are telegraphed very well.

> >

> > He's talking about Havoc Specialist where you get DPS buff of 15% damage with zero Endurance Bar. Since Chrono keeps giving him Endurance, it keeps lowering his DPS.

>

> I know but didn't you used dodges in previous dmg rotations?

> I understand why OP is complaining but I don't think it's that much of an issue.

 

The question are;

- How can you save yourself with zero endurance?

- And how can you maintain high DPS if you choose to save yourself?

 

The OP is under the impression that he has to have zero endurance to get top DPS due to the lower DPS output that he's experiencing whenever the Chrono keeps on refilling his endurance. It is legitimate to question the motive behind this change since there is a difference in the benchmark. That is the issue.

 

The root of the issue are these nerfs:

- Staff Strike: The damage of this skill has been reduced by 6.5%.

- Staff Bash: The damage of this skill has been reduced by 6.5%.

- Havoc mastery (removed)

- Staff mastery: converted 10% boost to +240 power.

 

First, Staff Mastery is a huge nerf if your power is above 2400, since 10% damage is equal to +250 power if you have 2500 power, +260 is 2600, etc.; +240 power is insulting.

 

Second, at zero endurance, I get +15% damage. However, with pre-patch, I get 10% from Staff mastery and 7% from old Havoc making the damage boost +17% without spending a bar of endurance.

 

So if you don't think this is not "that much of an issue", then you're not really playing DD, now are you? Anyone who plays DD, even not in raids, knows this huge unexplained, unreasonable, and unfair nerfs.

[SehferViega.8725]

> @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:

 

> The question are;

> - How can you save yourself with zero endurance?

> - And how can you maintain high DPS if you choose to save yourself?

>

> The OP is under the impression that he has to have zero endurance to get top DPS due to the lower DPS output that he's experiencing whenever the Chrono keeps on refilling his endurance. It is legitimate to question the motive behind this change since there is a difference in the benchmark. That is the issue.

>

> The root of the issue are these nerfs:

> - Staff Strike: The damage of this skill has been reduced by 6.5%.

> - Staff Bash: The damage of this skill has been reduced by 6.5%.

> - Havoc mastery (removed)

> - Staff mastery: converted 10% boost to +240 power.

>

> First, Staff Mastery is a huge nerf if your power is above 2400, since 10% damage is equal to +250 power if you have 2500 power, +260 is 2600, etc.; +240 power is insulting.

>

> Second, at zero endurance, I get +15% damage. However, with pre-patch, I get 10% from Staff mastery and 7% from old Havoc making the damage boost +17% without spending a bar of endurance.

>

> So if you don't think this is not "that much of an issue", then you're not really playing DD, now are you? Anyone who plays DD, even not in raids, knows this huge unexplained, unreasonable, and unfair nerfs.

 

I would like to kwon how people think to make the most of +15% damage from Havoc Specialist in fractal with Vigor + Large Mist Mobility Potion (Movement speed in fractals is increased by 5% per stack. Endurance recharge rate in fractals is increased by 10% per stack).

 

Vigor: Endurance regeneration increased by 50%.

Large Mist Mobility Potion: Endurance regeneration increased by 50%.

 

Other funny thing: in PvE every time you Swipe, you gain 50 endurance and lose +5% Damage. This is what we call "traits' synergy"

[InsaneQR.7412]

@"Sir Vincent III.1286"

Well that's atleast an elaborate explanation I understand.

Do give a full answer: yes I play DD but not as main. I play all professions, all of which are not my main about the same amount.

So overall if they would increase the dmg boost for missing endurance in PvE to 7.5% DD would be more even and could spare one bar for escaping. Wouldn't that be a decent solution to the problem?

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

> @"InsaneQR.7412" said:

> @"Sir Vincent III.1286"

> Well that's atleast an elaborate explanation I understand.

> Do give a full answer: yes I play DD but not as main. I play all professions, all of which are not my main about the same amount.

> So overall if they would increase the dmg boost for missing endurance in PvE to 7.5% DD would be more even and could spare one bar for escaping. Wouldn't that be a decent solution to the problem?

 

I used to get +17% damage boost without spending a bar of endurance, so no, that will not solve the problem. DD has 3 endurance bar and it deserve 3 endurance bar for defense, not to be waste for damage boost.

 

EDIT: A better solution is I get +5% damage for each endurance bar, thus I get +15% damage at full endurance. This way, losing damage boost because I dodge will make sense and Chrono will not be detrimental to my DPS.