Kolzi.5928 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 Pretty disappointing that sword isn't worth using. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate.8146 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 Funny stuff. Anet: "The holosmith is high risk, high reward" Qt: "The holosmith is high risk, middle tier" Engineers: "Where did I go wrong!? Why hath you forsaken me science!!" Oh well. 2 more years and $60 for next expansion, maybe we'll have another fighting chance :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaba.5410 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 > @Nate.8146 said: > Funny stuff. > Anet: "The holosmith is high risk, high reward" > Qt: "The holosmith is high risk, middle tier" > Engineers: "Where did I go wrong!? Why hath you forsaken me science!!" > > Oh well. 2 more years and $60 for next expansion, maybe we'll have another fighting chance :P You forgot, "Anet: The engineer is a jack of all trades, master at none." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insanemaniac.2456 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 uh 5 classes have 10% higher benchmarks 2 classes are equivalent, the other 2 classes that got the short end of pof, 1 of which is required anyways on a support build and the last class has a significantly lower benchmark in return for having so much support that no amount of dps nerfs will make a difference in usage and some people arent seeing a free 10% boost by playing any of 5 classes as a problem? especially when all 5 of those classes do not pose a threat to themselves? that should be reversed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivantreil.3092 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 You know, i feel like the big problem right now, isn't totally our dps, it is at some degree, but the reason we are all complaining purely in dps is because our class is selfish!. I was one of those people who wanted the new spec to grant any kind of utility/support value to the team (We actually have one, we can bring a lot of condi cleanse, but thats useless in raids/pve). I don't know why ANET didn't wanted to bring any sort of utility that could be reliable in raids, this was a problem already present in Core/Scrapper, they had an opportunity and missed it so badly. A mix of support/dps would totally justify our current numbers, but since that's not the case, they should have put us inside the top 4 dps right?, right!? I have heard the argument that Engi might still be valuable as the new specs seem to lack access to vulnerability, and we puke a lot of those with explosives alone, don't know how much that will impact, only time will tell... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insanemaniac.2456 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 > @Ivantreil.3092 said: >(We actually have one, we can bring a lot of condi cleanse, but thats useless in raids/pve). hmm scourge is forced to bring a 5 sec cd, no cast time, 2 condi->boon conversion lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krag.6210 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 The combo of sword+offhand+heat needs to bring a higher dps than bomb AA so we can use our utilities for something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamantium.3682 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 > @Ivantreil.3092 said: > A mix of support/dps would totally justify our current numbers, ... No it wouldn't. Remove damage and every single build above Holo on the DPS chart _still_ brings more to the raid. The amount of Engineers resolving to "ho hum it is what it is maybe it's not that bad" after just a couple days makes me sad. Don't make excuses for it, it is objectively in a poor pve spot compared to all other professions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaba.5410 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 > @Adamantium.3682 said: > The amount of Engineers resolving to "ho hum it is what it is maybe it's not that bad" after just a couple days makes me sad. Don't make excuses for it, it is objectively in a poor pve spot compared to all other professions. > > This is why I liked the post of the guy above posting all the "¯_(ツ)_/¯". Five years later and same old is same old.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Substatic.6958 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 So still crazy piano kit swapping, doesn't use sword, take self damage because reasons, and hardest rotation in the game - for lower end DPS. Glad I deleted my engi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamantium.3682 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 > @Chaba.5410 said: > > @Adamantium.3682 said: > > The amount of Engineers resolving to "ho hum it is what it is maybe it's not that bad" after just a couple days makes me sad. Don't make excuses for it, it is objectively in a poor pve spot compared to all other professions. > > > > > > This is why I liked the post of the guy above posting all the "¯_(ツ)_/¯". Five years later and same old is same old.... Although I disagree with the notion that Engineer has been some pathetic class for 5 years, that doesn't mean I think everything is great and Holo will get fixed. Even though I think it's just numbers, Anet's track record in buffing things that "should work" or "designed to work" isn't great (Power Reaper). I just think now is the most likely time we will see any improvements, with the first big balance patch after the expac, so I am being vocal now. However likely it is that nothing happens, it's too early to throw in the towel IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoyoko.7309 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 @Adamantium.3682 said: > I just think now is the most likely time we will see any improvements, with the first big balance patch after the expac, so I am being vocal now. However likely it is that nothing happens, it's too early to throw in the towel IMO. Well said ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagrant.7206 Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 > @Adamantium.3682 said: > > @Chaba.5410 said: > > > @Adamantium.3682 said: > > > The amount of Engineers resolving to "ho hum it is what it is maybe it's not that bad" after just a couple days makes me sad. Don't make excuses for it, it is objectively in a poor pve spot compared to all other professions. > > > > > > > > > > This is why I liked the post of the guy above posting all the "¯_(ツ)_/¯". Five years later and same old is same old.... > > Although I disagree with the notion that Engineer has been some pathetic class for 5 years, that doesn't mean I think everything is great and Holo will get fixed. Even though I think it's just numbers, Anet's track record in buffing things that "should work" or "designed to work" isn't great (Power Reaper). I wouldn't say we've been pathetic for 5 years, but we've had so many longstanding QoL issues and bugs that haven't really been addressed that it doesn't seem like they pay all that much attention to the class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nephalem.8921 Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 > @Vagrant.7206 said: > I wouldn't say we've been pathetic for 5 years, but we've had so many longstanding QoL issues and bugs that haven't really been addressed that it doesn't seem like they pay all that much attention to the class. It took them months to fix the bomb collision bug. Gamebreaking bug that made bombs almost unusable... Took them MONTHS Thats how much they care about engi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgMatt.5162 Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 Mmm well I am leaning more towards still playing condi Engi PvE for most encounters because of the additional immob from off-hand pistol and Streamlined Kits utility (mostly the bomb kit pull). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krag.6210 Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 > @cgMatt.5162 said: > Mmm well I am leaning more towards still playing condi Engi PvE for most encounters because of the additional immob from off-hand pistol and Streamlined Kits utility (mostly the bomb kit pull). That, and it's safer thanks to having a little more range and better endurance regen with the tools traitline. Holo right now is a melee self-damaging build with limited dodging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warlyx.6732 Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 > @Timo.1065 said: > That new meta is so ridiculis. ANet prepared new specialisation to use sword and shield or pistol. And after that meta is rifle. > I play engi since release, and this class realy mis range attack. So mayby it is good to still use rifle. The problem of xpack is it don't change fealing of this class. > What is wrong with ANet? yeah , i was expecting to use sword on Engi , and Elementalist ....or dagger on my SB ....but looks like other than Scourge and Mirage...nearly all the classes are avoiding the new weapons like the plague :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Red Arachnid.2493 Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 I only play 7 of the specs, but from what I have seen... Deadeye: The rifle is good. It is a more niche weapon, but I've used it to great effect. It does more damage than pistols in a lab. Holosmith: Sword is really terrible. You NEED the 150 heat trait in order for it to good damage. It is purposefully undertuned because of this. Mirage; Axe is good. Gives me condi cleave on main attack and clones. Necromancer: Torch is good. Knockdown and respectable damage. Elementalist: Sword is really terrible. All it does is bad damage and leaps. Guardian: Axe is good. The animations are really bugged, but it's a fairly high CC weapon when traited. Revenant: Shortbow is... hard to describe. It is definitely bad, but it is still useful in rare circumstances. I hear Soulbeast dagger is good, so looks like Anet got half of them right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Substatic.6958 Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 Has anyone tried doing sword camping inbetween photonforge and test the dps? How bad is it compared to piano-kit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamantium.3682 Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 > @Substatic.6958 said: > Has anyone tried doing sword camping inbetween photonforge and test the dps? How bad is it compared to piano-kit? Bad. You don't even need to invest in qT levels of benchmarking to see it yourself. Go to Special Forces Training Arena, spawn a 1 million HP golem. To make it quick give yourself all boons, and give the golem all conditions. Now spam sword against it, look at damage. Respawn it and use bombs. Try using Refraction Cutter, try whatever you want even lock yourself at 51 heat with PBM (don't attack with PF or blow up) you won't beat Fire Bomb + Bomb auto spam. You won't even come that close. Sword auto chain twice, then Refraction Cutter all with heat bonus still doesn't hold a candle to bombs 1 and 2 off cooldown. Ideally this is how it would work if I had a say in it: With 0 heat: sword and bomb are roughly equal, a dps rotation could use either without noticeable difference. With 51+ heat: sword is a little bit better than bombs, it's a small dps loss to use bombs. With 101+ heat: sword is clearly better, no reason to spam bombs as dps filler. On average rotations using PBM should be using sword auto attacks, not Bomb. Sword should be an appealing pick even when stacked against the burst of Rifle. Refraction Cutter should be the comparable skill to Blunderbuss, but overall a Sword/Pistol rotation should bring more dps than Rifle/Bombs. Otherwise what's the point of sword? It does nothing besides damage and it's locked behind an elite spec. If it's not the best damaging weapon you can use (for power) then it serves no purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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