Elite Specs and Masteries Too Easy To Acquire In PoF?

[Thelgar.7214]

I still haven't unlocked griffon and my masteries are at 3,4,0,1 on the other mounts. Adding a tedious XP grind to suit people that have a shit ton of free time while penalizing those that don't isn't an improvement.

[Shirlias.8104]

> @Thelgar.7214 said:

> I still haven't unlocked griffon and my masteries are at 3,4,0,1 on the other mounts. Adding a tedious XP grind to suit people that have a kitten ton of free time while penalizing those that don't isn't an improvement.

 

Agree.

Tip: if you want to unlock em fast, hp run is the best way once you unlocked all maps ( it also gives you let's say nice rewards ).

[GrubySzymek.1362]

I like fast spec unlocking. It was really annoying in HoT when I was made to play most of the maps to finally enjoy my spec. Specs are just tools and running hero points are nowhere close to questing or adventuring. It's just a grind. If spec aquisition was made into proper questing, I could accept longer time. But we don't have proper questing in GW2.

 

About masteries... with current state of experience needed for them I would accept if they were made account bound. Or at least that every character needs to play a little quest (again) to unlock mounts before using them.

[Draknar.5748]

So to give my perspective. I've played since beta and was a hardcore daily player. 16mos ago I had twin boys, so obviously gaming took a big hit. I don't have nearly the time to play as I used to. I can squeeze an hour a night after the boys go down and I have to say, I really enjoy the pace of unlocking masteries/elite specs. Pretty much each time I play I can unlock one of my elite spec skills. I still haven't completed it entirely but I'm almost there. To me it's the perfect pace.

 

I know people jokingly call it Casual Wars 2, but honestly, that's the way MMOs are going. It's becoming more and more rare to have a playerbase that can sink 4+ hrs each day into a game. GW2 has adapted properly to this by making the pace enjoyable for people who don't have the ability or want to sink large amounts of time into a game.

 

I want to be able to play an hour here and there and still feel I'm progressing. In HoT I could go a solid week without feeling like I really progressed. Especially with the way they gated zones via movement masteries. Some weeks I was stuck in a zone and couldn't progress because I didn't have mushroom jump or some other specific ability and unlocking them took FOREVER it felt. Now if I hit that wall (like needing springer or jackal), it's typically one or two days before I'm able to move forward. And I'm also not prohibited from progressing from a HP standpoint either now. I couldn't stand getting to a HP I desperately needed only to find out I had to try and solo some ridiculous Champion mob on my heal guardian and I'd have to wait for someone to help or simply log off. It was infuriating.

 

For people with lots of time to game, I can absolutely see how it feels too easy and quick to progress, but for people like me it's absolutely perfect. The average age of gamers is increasing. I would even venture to guess that the average GW2 player is late 20s, early 30s. We're not carefree college students anymore!

[Taygus.4571]

> @JMaarse.7086 said:

> It took me about 3,5 days to max all the masteries (including griffon) and during that time whenever I got off my mount to gather or whatever and I got into combat I didn't mind at all. Killing random mobs gives quite nice exp which made exploring a lot of fun. After maxing everything getting knocked of your mount or getting into combat is just an annoyance and killing random mobs doesn't feel rewarding.

> The 4th tier of masteries are completely optional bonuses and I would not mind if they took over 10 million exp to unlock. That would greatly increase the fun of walking around in the open world for me.

 

Why would grinding be more fun than just doing that?

Why do you need to be told to earn "x amount of experience "..basically grind..you know you can do that without "needing" to, right?

[undouble.1472]

To me--------------getting and maxing the mounts AND "hitting" all of the mastery points took over this release------minimizing the storyline entirely!!! That and the fact that too often in this map the character is turned into little more than a "chew toy" to be played with until "all of the fun is gone" is a quick turnoff. Balthazar is one example----I just spent 30 minutes AWK while Balthazar "played" with my character-------and tried his best to "kill himself" before basically saying "April Fool"!! and sending me to the "Eater of Souls" (that I have yet to figure out) so that I then can play "reset from a checkpoint"

[Lambros Augustus.6594]

I like the experience of having all the weapons for my class available to utilize from the get go like when I first started the game. I find it a chore to go and use my thousands of points to unlock the mastery on all of my most up to date toons out of 50. I think warhorn should be there for ele even if I chose weaver, same with mesmer shield even if I choose mirage. I would elaborate more if I chose other classes as much or found it a boon to use their past elite weapons. All weapons for every class should be available to use regardless of elite choice. If shield or warhorn is weakened slightly fine but I would like to use as they are part of my toon and feel more personally tied to for that toon. Sword and Warhorn Eles. Axe and Shield Mesmers. Would be nice and a fun way to play, i strongly feel.

[Glacial.9516]

Elite Spec should be just as easy to obtain as it is now, imo. I much prefer to start the Expansion with your spec than unlocking it near the end.

 

Masteries were pretty easy. I think I finished all of mine in 3 or 4 days (save for the Griffon because I haven't spent 250g on it yet, but I had plenty of spare points). Were they too easy? I don't know. I think Mastery levels 1-3 should be easy because they are integral parts of traversing PoF. HoT didn't take that long either to reach the needed mastery levels for basic travel (Jumping mushrooms, Updrafts, Nuhoch wallows) but masteries extended well beyond that point ranging from very useful to mostly useless.

 

I think Anet opted not to include unnecessary masteries this time around, for better or worse, and instead enable them by default.

They could have had a Desert Mastery track that unlocked Races, and then unlocked Bounties, followed by the Gathering of rare resources for certain collections, a quicksand mastery to lose HP slower in quicksand, and one so that Elisa or certain vendors will speak with you. They could have had another 40+ mastery points with this type of track and nearly matched HoT's mastery amounts (64 to 112, for reference). But why? Just to give us something to grind? A use for the superfluous points? I'd probably still have worked on them and might still be eagerly hunting down more mastery points for it, but would it have benefited the game? I'm not so sure.

 

[TexZero.7910]

> @Taygus.4571 said:

> > @TexZero.7910 said:

> > I don't mind the exp being less of an issue...

> >

> > The mastery points however, it took me less than a week to collect all the available PoF mastery points. That's.....underwhelming.

>

> What exactly is less than a week to you? How many hours is that?

>

> Because people have different commitments.

>

> There's plenty of challenge without making HP challenging.

>

> The problem here. ..is again...people don't just want challenge. .they want challenge to pay off. Can't ye make your own challenge by solo-ing some champs? Etc

>

> Why do you want the level of difficulty to increase for everyone?

Not talking Hero points, stop confusing the two.

 

Mastery points, you know the things used a a token to unlock masteries once you have the EXP. There's currently 21 surplus mastery points and they are all pretty trivial to acquire.

 

[Wizler.8192]

Nah, it's fine. You still need to put in the work to get 250 points, whether it's a mounted HoT HP train, or getting PoF HPs. I started a second Ranger so I could have one power and one condi; I did the work to get 500 hero points for the new toon but I'm glad it didn't take excessive time.

[JMaarse.7086]

> @Taygus.4571 said:

> Why would grinding be more fun than just doing that?

> Why do you need to be told to earn "x amount of experience "..basically grind..you know you can do that without "needing" to, right?

 

And yet it just doesn't feel fun to kill random mobs when you don't get anything for it. I'm not trying to rationalise it, just stating my observation: game became less fun after masteries maxed, therefore the game would be fun longer with more more exp per mastery. And I do mean specifically the final tier, I think the lower tiers are at a good amount.

[Ellisande.5218]

> @Malediktus.9250 said:

> Yes. they might as well be auto unlocks currently. They feel so easy to get that it feels automatic.

 

HP Trains in HoT aren't hard either. They are just sucky for people who prefer being able to go at their own pace and hate being forced to become a cog moving at someone else's schedule. I already do that at work, I shouldn't have to do it when I come home and sit down to play a game and relax.

[Taygus.4571]

> @JMaarse.7086 said:

> > @Taygus.4571 said:

> > Why would grinding be more fun than just doing that?

> > Why do you need to be told to earn "x amount of experience "..basically grind..you know you can do that without "needing" to, right?

>

> And yet it just doesn't feel fun to kill random mobs when you don't get anything for it. I'm not trying to rationalise it, just stating my observation: game became less fun after masteries maxed, therefore the game would be fun longer with more more exp per mastery. And I do mean specifically the final tier, I think the lower tiers are at a good amount.

 

To you. .not to me, however.

 

Don't force grind on everyone, just because you don't how to have one without it.

[Zaltys.7649]

This is far better than idling at hp for hours, waiting for someone to turn up to help. I have better things to do, would rather watch paint dry.

 

Too hard to solo, too easy with a train. HoT hero points were no fun whatsoever. Too bad that the PoF _bounties_ have the same problem now., though hero points got fixed.

[Ohoni.6057]

> @Shirlias.8104 said:

> > @Thelgar.7214 said:

> > I still haven't unlocked griffon and my masteries are at 3,4,0,1 on the other mounts. Adding a tedious XP grind to suit people that have a kitten ton of free time while penalizing those that don't isn't an improvement.

>

> Agree.

> Tip: if you want to unlock em fast, hp run is the best way once you unlocked all maps ( it also gives you let's say nice rewards ).

 

There is a SUPER fast way to XP grind masteries that I haven't heard too many people talking about, the Treat Quests. Every Map has a Treat Quest, to give you Treats specific to each mount. You need to do them in order, so you can't complete the Springer one until the Raptor one is done, or the Skimmer until the Springer is done, but you get five Treats for each mount in total, and then can buy new ones from the ranch vendor if you want.

 

You can only get an XP benefit once each day per pet, and can only use the right treat on the right pet, but these seem to stack. I started taking these quests seriously once I got my Griffon, but was able to fully master my Griffon skills in only a few days, in part by feeding the right pets the right treats each day. Even the free ones you get should be plenty, and the quests are pretty fun to do sometimes.

[Kichwas.7152]

> @Dante.1763 said:

> Elite specs are fine with the way the unlock. Most players want to play the new content with the new skills, not have to wait, not only that, but you can only auto unlock it if you have enough Hero points.

 

Basically this. I've yet to even really start PoF because I first wanted to unlock the new specs - so I've been doing HoT and launch content to unlock all my specs first, across 10 characters.

 

[Druitt.7629]

What, in particular, stretched things out in HoT? My experience is that many of the mastery points were extremely difficult to even figure out where they were. (But that's a general complaint I have with HoT maps. So much vertical that it can be hard to figure out where something is, then it can be hard to get to it... Frustrating, not challenging.) Then there were interlocking ones where you needed to be immune to poison or you couldn't access them, but to be immune to poison, you... It was hard but not rewarding.

 

I made a point in PoF of going to zones before the story led me there, and of getting just enough mastery for each mount to get the next one. I felt like I was much better able to prioritize overall, and I've also prioritized mastery back-filling -- but not getting everything -- in preparation for the gold grind of the Griffon.

[Druitt.7629]

On the point of auto-unlock, I haven't experienced it. Out of the 8 professions I had at PoF launch -- all 80's -- only one was even able to unlock half of the new elite skills. I've definitely had to seek out points and revisit the despised (by me) HoT maps for a few. And I still have longer-term goals, like getting Blood Ruby equipment, etc.

[ugrakarma.9416]

for those have many alts inst so easy.

 

im my case, i farmed wvw for months before lauch, so i have plenty to fullfull 8 alts.

[Ahlen.7591]

On Warrior I had enough points to just flat unlock Spellbreaker without even entering PoF maps.

[Vyrulisse.1246]

I'm willing to wager most players don't have 250 extra hero points banked and it IS a journey for them to get their elite specs.

[Ohoni.6057]

> @Ahlen.7591 said:

> On Warrior I had enough points to just flat unlock Spellbreaker without even entering PoF maps.

 

I was able to do this on my main, who had completed all previous content, but all my alts were at basically zero points towards the new specs.

[DebraKadabra.5278]

For those who are having problems getting the XP you need--my suggestions are to use XP boosters (either the boost itself or the one you can get from the guild hall) and the Lunar New Year fireworks. Those two XP boosts stack separately, and the LNY boost can stack up to two hours. I did this for the 5th downed skill and went to Octovine in AB. With that one successful AB run, I'd maxed out the XP bar.

 

Also, don't forget the XP boost you get from food and utility consumables.

[starlinvf.1358]

There are 3 problems floating around right now I feel people aren't aware of, yet subconsciously becomes a major part of their arguments. What the game is about. How the game is played. And this constant illusion of "progress".

 

The problem here is that GW2 fundamentally breaks RPG conventions in such a way, that people with typicality MMO mind sets are unable to properly articulate why theres a problem. This is why half of the "make things better' suggestions make almost no sense in context of the actual game mechanics; often sounding just as artificial as what they described needing replacement. GW2 is fundamentally an action game thats been counter-intuitively bogged down by conventional RPG concepts.... So when you're advocating for more conventional MMORPG idea (such as time spent, effort cost, and min/maxing) you need to have an exceptionally good reason as to why it should be there. Familiarity is NOT a good reason to have something in a game that went out of its way to undermine/subvert the normal methods.

 

One of the biggest offenders has always been the stats and secondary attributes, and the how poorly it fits into the buildcraft, causes it to be either the most important thing to stack or utterly inconsequential. Which brings us to the problem of "Progression" and gating systems. The game itself is designed from the ground up to heavily favor exploration... in the maps... in the mechanics... and especially the build craft itself. This lack of linear progression (otherwise recognized as power creep) means its pretty much impossible to accurately gauge a player's performance level at any point in the game, and in turn makes it impossible to create a smooth difficulty curve for the sake of player comfort. This has been proven repeatedly in cases where a mob's difficulty can often boil down to a single skill in its line up, and how different builds react to it in wildly variable ways. It eventually hits full circle once you realize how the game's buildcraft (thus the players) organizes itself to respond to various challenges; and the real problem is revealed once you realize that build comp and party comp are conceptually the same thing on different scales.

THAT is why "progression" is so hard to tack down as an idea, because how the game actually works is-- players identify a challenge, and find the most effort-efficient way to overcome it. Its also why Arbitrarily raising the difficulty, with obtuse requirements, caused Raids to become utterly polarizing within the community. Its not rewarding mastery of a situation, so much as rewarding behavioral compliance on a group level- and can be a good thing or bad thing depending on what the goal was. Mechanically, I consider raids to be exceptionally well made.... but all of that gets turned on its head due to how aggressively it tries to DPS check everything on top of that. Some consider that the "requisite challenge" for difficult content..... but ultimately its a microcosm of how this game is still getting this one idea about itself wrong, and (unsurprisingly) drove a wedge between the different build philosophies seen in the Community. Group Comp vs Personal Sustainment, Min/Max vs Adaptive builds, Conceptual vs Statistical.... It sounds like a big rant; but when you start piecing together how these things try to interconnect, you start to understand why these arguments are the way they are.

 

However the biggest take home from all of whats happened, is that its finally clear which gating mechanisms hurt Heart of Thorns the most; but only because the streamlining that occurred in POF happened because the Devs couldn't get their actual idea of "Profession unlock quests" to work. From my perspective, they've got it that idea completely backwards, and is exacerbating the real problem the game has with its mastery system. The mistake here is the Mastery/Unlock systems try too hard to make things easier as you go along (which is the MMO staple of power creep), when they should be giving you access to all the Specialization mechanics and traits up front, and design challenges (or at least keep them in mind) the same way they've been approaching Collections on macro level. For instance, parts of the Espec weapon collections have to be executed on the class in question.... but they only use that rule on the most generic of activities on its list (like the races), yet make the combat elements of the collection give credit on any class. That is back asswards! They need to put more effort into Specialization specific challenges that test aspects of its mechanics (especially playing to design strengths and weaknesses), and build achievements and collections around that. At the same time, continue to regulate the mastery system to map traversal concerns, and design the maps with a stronger Metroidvania mind set for the abilities it unlocks. Ultimately the one thing they got extremely wrong with Masteries is the Exp requirement; where MPs alone could do the job far more efficiently.

I feel like the only reason the mastery abilities feel flat after completion is the way they gate content behind those functions, which inadvertently over-trivialize previous methods of travel, and rarely offer new challenges that aren't binary gated in nature. To fix it is really expensive in terms of level design... but an ideal situation is where new abilities open "more difficult", but faster routes if navigated correctly. Right now, new abilities end up becoming straight easier ways to get around.... which sucks a lot of engagement out of the actual travel.

[Bish.8627]

I didn't pay for elite specs to my main time gated to use it. Fair enough grinding to get alts elite, but my main? Nah.

 

And one of the worst parts of HoT, along with the over complex maps, having to grind to unlock elites was, in my opinion, the masteries. Some of them were locked behind massive amounts of points, and the points (beyond the map ones) were a mega grind to get. Some of these were quite essential, and the WORST part, some you needed to get to certain parts of maps! Utterly terrible idea. This time around, it was the same, but at least it was far less painless.