Astralporing.1957 Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 > @"VDAC.2137" said: > > @"Erasculio.2914" said: > > [A U.S. Senator has introduced a bill to ban loot boxes and "pay-to-win" microtransactions](https://kotaku.com/u-s-senator-introduces-bill-to-ban-loot-boxes-and-pay-1834612226). > > > > While the "pay-to-win" ban probably wouldn't have any impact on Guild Wars 2, the Black Lion Chests are loot boxes, so they would be forbidden if this bill passes. > > > > What do you think will happen? > > Ugh, I really hope this bill is shot down, not as much for the BLCs as for the principle of it. I am sick of the encroachment of the nanny state, always infringing on our rights while hiding behind “it’s for the children” or whatever. :angry: Yeah, laws and governments exist only to deprive us of our freedom. It's not like anything bad would happen if noone was trying to enforce nice behaviour on us. And even if it would, it is our personal choice to act as nice or bad as we want, with no consequences, and noone should be able to tell us otherwise. > @"Turkeyspit.3965" said: > > @"Aaralyna.3104" said: > > What will happen is that you cannot purchase keys for them in gem store nor can buy packages containing these or rng packages inside these. Basically what they did in game to Belgium last year. Which has a ban on lootboxes law. And yes it was for children but they took it out for the whole country. > > Parents are responsible for their children, not government. Even the worst, laziest and incompetent parents can do a better job protecting their child than a government official. Yeah, why do we even need police for. Let parents protect their families, they will surely do a far better job at it. ...yeah, i'm being sarcastic if somebody didn't notice. Honestly, i don't think that this bill will pass. Not this time, anyway. Still, it's not the first attempt, and they keep happening more and more often, so i am certain that eventually some restrictions will get through. And if by that time the game businesses won't start to regulate themselves, i fully expect those restrictions to be unreasonably strict. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstealer.5978 Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > @"otto.5684" said: > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > @"otto.5684" said: > > > > I think sooner or later, they will tag a 21 years old on loot boxes. Games should stay away from gambling and just sell the cosmetics directly with no RNG. > > > > > > Sadly If they approve what you're saying, it could lead to the elimination of all rng in all games, thus eliminating rng drops from mobs and thus ruining the enjoyment of finding treasure and the enjoyment of the game itself. Technically everything in the game is chance, and time spent rolling on those chances of getting good treasure or loot. Since Time is money, elimination of all rng is essentially the argument you're making. > > > > Let’s not get bananas shall we? No reason for this kitten “oh no they well destroy the game.” Clearly this is about micro transactions, specifically randomized loot boxes purchasable with either real money or in game currency directly purchasable with money. > > > > The game shop will be much better if loot boxes were removed. > > this will destroy a ton of games, not just GW2, I don't understand why anyone wants this. Why don't parents just watch their children and the problem is solved? Why will it destroy them.. surely it means they have to think up better ways to make money rather than RNG boxes. Personally I don't feel ANET will need to do much more than they already do - ie every BLC offers something plus guaranteed statuettes in order to use against content purchases, mount select boxes added.. I think your taking things too extreme by saying it will destroy the game though tbh. There is no denying that gambling is an issue, there is no denying that underage gambling is a problem and there is also no getting away from the fact that gambling sells and it is often found to utilise predatory practices in order to sell, which is why countries are starting to act on these things. That said I agree, no one (at least no one I know) wants to live in a nanny state, but some level of control is required and to do that the gaming orgs, gambling institutions, parents and government must all take a slice of the responsibility cake otherwise if left unchecked the problems will persist and grow until government does have to step in enforce unpopular law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchonWing.9480 Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 > @"DanAlcedo.3281" said: > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > @"DanAlcedo.3281" said: > > > > @"ArchonWing.9480" said: > > > > > @"DanAlcedo.3281" said: > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > Really hope this bill doesnt pass. I dont agree with it at all, parents need to watch their kids. > > > > > > > > > > Ok! > > > > > > > > > > Lets make alcohol legal for every age. > > > > > > > > > > „Parents need to watch thier kids“ > > > > > > > > > > Realy dude? > > > > > > > > Yea, because loot boxes kill tens of thousands of people a year, and injure many more through impairment. > > > > > > Are you guys really arguing that Loot Boxes aka Gambling for kids should stay allowed? > > > > > > If yes, im out. > > > > Loot boxes are purchased with RL money. How does said kid get the money to purchase them? > > How do kids get the money for alcohol?> @"ArchonWing.9480" said: > > > @"DanAlcedo.3281" said: > > > > @"ArchonWing.9480" said: > > > > > @"DanAlcedo.3281" said: > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > Really hope this bill doesnt pass. I dont agree with it at all, parents need to watch their kids. > > > > > > > > > > Ok! > > > > > > > > > > Lets make alcohol legal for every age. > > > > > > > > > > „Parents need to watch thier kids“ > > > > > > > > > > Realy dude? > > > > > > > > Yea, because loot boxes kill tens of thousands of people a year, and injure many more through impairment. > > > > > > Are you guys really arguing that Loot Boxes aka Gambling for kids should stay allowed? > > > > > > > No, I'm saying your analogy is terrible. > > > > EDIT: But not just you. > > > > > > Alcohol destroys lifes. > Gambling destroys lifes. > > I see 0 difference. > > > There are reason for laws that protect children. > > Saying „ Its 100% in the parents hands“ is plain stupid. Alcohol can literally kill people. We have a wealth of knowledge on the matter. It's also easily demonstrable. Much like drinking bleach is poisonous. But I guess a lot of posts can't discern the difference between that and a Black Lion Chest. Explains a lot. But the difference between drinking bleach/buying dumb chests and drinking alcohol is that a drunk person is a danger to people other than themselves. It's obviously a public hazard if not dealt with properly, which is why we only let "responsible" adults here handle the matter. And there are still many countries that do let children consume alcohol-- you saying they all don't care about children? Where is your source that this game is sending families into bankruptcy, through this loot box epidemic? Besides, oh I don't know, yourself. What is plain outrageous is saying Arenanet is running an underage gambling ring, and that you are supporting it by definition. What do you have beyond scary words? I've played this game since release and have never spent real money on the store, have never bought BL keys on their own with anything, and I have access to the Ectoplasm portal, but have not gambled once ever since I unlocked it. Where is the magic button to ruin your life? (Well, spending thousands of hours in an MMO seems like a waste of time I guess...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig. Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 I have no problem with loot boxes. I have a problem with p2w. Since BLCs are not p2w, I hope there will be a law, banning p2w lootboxes schemes, that keeps purely QoL and cosmetic loot boxes as they are. At least for adult* players. *adults = people above 30 with a steady income. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ensign.2189 Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 > @"AlexxxDelta.1806" said: > People say they want to be free to choose how they want to spend their **own** money. I would agree. But how would a 18/21+ age rating and a gambling disclaimer affect any of those people? It wouldn't, and if there was a big push from them to get age verification implemented into cash shops it would be a good conversation that ties into other issues about account ownership and credit card transactions. I don't see that angle though. I see a lot of talk about banning loot boxes. That means the 'think of the children!' arguments are in bad faith. They are moralizing because their real positions and arguments are terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hugo.4705 Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 Finally some logic, I hope those kind of law pass everywhere, have enough of randomness. I buy something, I have the thing final point. I'm strongly against that nasty method of selling lootboxes no matter of childrens or not. When I see how rare bl keys are (no keys runners or map completion for me, already explored, like my toons, don't have piles of tomes of knowledges) plus the fact that some items from chest never drop... putting something with a drop rate under 0.01 should be illegal. Gambling is a scourge that should be eradicated worldwide, too many peoples are in dept due to them. The worse is those 400 gems random licences I want to burn them down. Not a matter of responsability, gambling is using mind tricks exploiting brain weaknesses, a very dangerous thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchonWing.9480 Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 > @"Ensign.2189" said: > > @"AlexxxDelta.1806" said: > > People say they want to be free to choose how they want to spend their **own** money. I would agree. But how would a 18/21+ age rating and a gambling disclaimer affect any of those people? > > It wouldn't, and if there was a big push from them to get age verification implemented into cash shops it would be a good conversation that ties into other issues about account ownership and credit card transactions. > > I don't see that angle though. I see a lot of talk about banning loot boxes. That means the 'think of the children!' arguments are in bad faith. They are moralizing because their real positions and arguments are terrible. That's my main issue with this whole debate. If it were just a simple thing about age verification about microtransactions, that's something to talk about. But the way people rant about these things suggests they don't want to just ban things in favor of protecting children-- they're just salty they wasted money on some bad choices. And this is very much a political argument much like everything else; much like the whole violent video games or whatnot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenakou.7853 Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 I would love it if this bill came to pass and ANet had to cease using BLC I hate them with a passion. Playing a gambling game just to get a skin I want is arduous and frustrating. Many players have all said for years that ANet should just sell us what we want. Bundle the gargoyle or phoenix weapon sets for like 5-10 bucks and let players buy the bundle and unlock EVERY skin. I guarantee players would spend way more money in the gem store if they could simply purchase what they want instead of gambling on these idiotic loot boxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Lumpix.6108 Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 > @"DanAlcedo.3281" said: > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > @"DanAlcedo.3281" said: > > > > @"ArchonWing.9480" said: > > > > > @"DanAlcedo.3281" said: > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > Really hope this bill doesnt pass. I dont agree with it at all, parents need to watch their kids. > > > > > > > > > > Ok! > > > > > > > > > > Lets make alcohol legal for every age. > > > > > > > > > > „Parents need to watch thier kids“ > > > > > > > > > > Realy dude? > > > > > > > > Yea, because loot boxes kill tens of thousands of people a year, and injure many more through impairment. > > > > > > Are you guys really arguing that Loot Boxes aka Gambling for kids should stay allowed? > > > > > > If yes, im out. > > > > Loot boxes are purchased with RL money. How does said kid get the money to purchase them? > > How do kids get the money for alcohol?> @"ArchonWing.9480" said: > > > @"DanAlcedo.3281" said: > > > > @"ArchonWing.9480" said: > > > > > @"DanAlcedo.3281" said: > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > Really hope this bill doesnt pass. I dont agree with it at all, parents need to watch their kids. > > > > > > > > > > Ok! > > > > > > > > > > Lets make alcohol legal for every age. > > > > > > > > > > „Parents need to watch thier kids“ > > > > > > > > > > Realy dude? > > > > > > > > Yea, because loot boxes kill tens of thousands of people a year, and injure many more through impairment. > > > > > > Are you guys really arguing that Loot Boxes aka Gambling for kids should stay allowed? > > > > > > > No, I'm saying your analogy is terrible. > > > > EDIT: But not just you. > > > > > > Alcohol destroys lifes. > Gambling destroys lifes. > > I see 0 difference. > > > There are reason for laws that protect children. > > Saying „ Its 100% in the parents hands“ is plain stupid. They get all of those things when parents dont watch their kids. So I proved my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Lumpix.6108 Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 > @"sigur.9453" said: > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > @"Ashantara.8731" said: > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > why? I enjoy paid RNG. If you don't like it, why don't you just not buy it? > > > > > > I'm not talking about me but on behalf of the many teens, adolescents and even adults who lose hundreds or thousands of dollars getting addicted to gambling in games (and on related websites). Gambling can be highly addictive and therefore should not be encouraged, but that's just my opinion. > > > > You can get addicted to anything lol... Why don't people have self control? Should we outlaw most foods or drinks or activities because some people out there have horrible addictions to them? Or is the blame placed on the individual to exercise some self control? I'd say that people need to do things in moderation, and holding everyone hostage by banning activities outright that everyone enjoys, because a few people have problems with self moderation while engaging in those activities seems very unreasonable. > > You clearly do not not how addiction works. Inform yourself and then come back and talk to this topic I think I do since I'm a psychologist lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Lumpix.6108 Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 > @"sigur.9453" said: > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > Its pretty simple. Every online purchase gambling or not is made with a credit card. You cannot apply for a credit card unless you are 18, because a credit card purchase is a contract. A minor cannot enter into a contract. Therefore anytime a kid uses their parents credit card to do any online microtransaction. It's either 100% with the parents consent or the transaction is void and using the card without permission is theft and fraud. > > > > So parents watch your kids. Or put blocks on your kids cell phones and PC with a password that blocks all online purchases and keep your cards in a safe place. > > > > Case closed. > > Ever heard of prepaid cards available at nearly every shops counter? Bad argument, sry. Anyone under 18 cant get a prepaid card. Since it's a contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Lumpix.6108 Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 > @"AlexxxDelta.1806" said: > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > @"DanAlcedo.3281" said: > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > Really hope this bill doesnt pass. I dont agree with it at all, parents need to watch their kids. > > > > > > Ok! > > > > > > Lets make alcohol legal for every age. > > > > > > „Parents need to watch thier kids“ > > > > > > Realy dude? > > > > Yah why dont parents watch their kids? You ever hear what happened with prohibition? It didn't work. Just like the war on drugs doesnt work. > > You seem to love false analogies. Nobody is prohibiting anything, not even in Belgium. They simply asked the gaming industry to be upfront about what they are offering and put gambling disclaimers on their products. The gaming studios **themselves** decided to ban their own lootboxes there, in order to create artificial outrage from people like you, who like the practice. That "army" of lootbox lovers will then put pressure on their governments to overturn the law because they can't engage in their favorite hobby anymore, essentially becoming the industry's best defenders. The only party doing any "prohibition" in this case, is the gaming industry. > > >Why should everyones enjoyment be ruined because parents decided to have kids and then decided not to watch them and put the burden on everyone else. > > Please explain to me how a gambling disclaimer and an age gate ruins your personal enjoyment of anything. Assuming you are an adult with your own money to spend, you can keep happily gambling them away in as many lootboxes as you want. Does anyone stop you from going into a casino to gamble your fortune away? The answer is no unless you are underage, and if that's the case you would be practically reinforcing the argument made in this thread with your stance. > > This isnt true since in Belgium their decision shut games down outright and with gw2 they permanently removed black lion chests. So yes it does ruin games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigur.9453 Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > @"Ashantara.8731" said: > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > why? I enjoy paid RNG. If you don't like it, why don't you just not buy it? > > > > > > > > I'm not talking about me but on behalf of the many teens, adolescents and even adults who lose hundreds or thousands of dollars getting addicted to gambling in games (and on related websites). Gambling can be highly addictive and therefore should not be encouraged, but that's just my opinion. > > > > > > You can get addicted to anything lol... Why don't people have self control? Should we outlaw most foods or drinks or activities because some people out there have horrible addictions to them? Or is the blame placed on the individual to exercise some self control? I'd say that people need to do things in moderation, and holding everyone hostage by banning activities outright that everyone enjoys, because a few people have problems with self moderation while engaging in those activities seems very unreasonable. > > > > You clearly do not not how addiction works. Inform yourself and then come back and talk to this topic > > I think I do since I'm a psychologist lol Yep, totally imagined that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigur.9453 Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > @"sigur.9453" said: > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > Its pretty simple. Every online purchase gambling or not is made with a credit card. You cannot apply for a credit card unless you are 18, because a credit card purchase is a contract. A minor cannot enter into a contract. Therefore anytime a kid uses their parents credit card to do any online microtransaction. It's either 100% with the parents consent or the transaction is void and using the card without permission is theft and fraud. > > > > > > So parents watch your kids. Or put blocks on your kids cell phones and PC with a password that blocks all online purchases and keep your cards in a safe place. > > > > > > Case closed. > > > > Ever heard of prepaid cards available at nearly every shops counter? Bad argument, sry. > > Anyone under 18 cant get a prepaid card. Since it's a contract. In my country you can buy them as easily and legal as the chocolate bar next to it at any age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Lumpix.6108 Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > @"otto.5684" said: > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > @"otto.5684" said: > > > > > I think sooner or later, they will tag a 21 years old on loot boxes. Games should stay away from gambling and just sell the cosmetics directly with no RNG. > > > > > > > > Sadly If they approve what you're saying, it could lead to the elimination of all rng in all games, thus eliminating rng drops from mobs and thus ruining the enjoyment of finding treasure and the enjoyment of the game itself. Technically everything in the game is chance, and time spent rolling on those chances of getting good treasure or loot. Since Time is money, elimination of all rng is essentially the argument you're making. > > > > > > Let’s not get bananas shall we? No reason for this kitten “oh no they well destroy the game.” Clearly this is about micro transactions, specifically randomized loot boxes purchasable with either real money or in game currency directly purchasable with money. > > > > > > The game shop will be much better if loot boxes were removed. > > > > this will destroy a ton of games, not just GW2, I don't understand why anyone wants this. Why don't parents just watch their children and the problem is solved? > > Why will it destroy them.. surely it means they have to think up better ways to make money rather than RNG boxes. > Personally I don't feel ANET will need to do much more than they already do - ie every BLC offers something plus guaranteed statuettes in order to use against content purchases, mount select boxes added.. I think your taking things too extreme by saying it will destroy the game though tbh. > > There is no denying that gambling is an issue, there is no denying that underage gambling is a problem and there is also no getting away from the fact that gambling sells and it is often found to utilise predatory practices in order to sell, which is why countries are starting to act on these things. > That said I agree, no one (at least no one I know) wants to live in a nanny state, but some level of control is required and to do that the gaming orgs, gambling institutions, parents and government must all take a slice of the responsibility cake otherwise if left unchecked the problems will persist and grow until government does have to step in enforce unpopular law. Take gatcha games for example. How do those games function with this law? You say they will come up with new ways of making money. But gw2 didnt. They just removed the black lion chests and were done with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexxxDelta.1806 Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 > @"Ensign.2189" said: > > @"AlexxxDelta.1806" said: > > People say they want to be free to choose how they want to spend their **own** money. I would agree. But how would a 18/21+ age rating and a gambling disclaimer affect any of those people? > > It wouldn't, and if there was a big push from them to get age verification implemented into cash shops it would be a good conversation that ties into other issues about account ownership and credit card transactions. > > I don't see that angle though. I see a lot of talk about banning loot boxes. That's the common misconception from both sides of the argument though. None of the Euro laws, like the Belgian one, or suggested bills like this, are calling for a blanket ban on lootboxes. They are calling for adherence to existing gambling regulations. And in countries where gambling is allowed this essentially boils down to an age restriction and a visible disclaimer (and probably special licenses). Much like actual online gambling. It was the industry's **choice** to refuse the label and consequently remove their RNG offerings or face fines. I can't speak for everyone's angle but I can only clarify how I view all this. I hate MtX in general and lootboxes specifically with a passion. Because I think this live-service model of recurrent monetization has affected game development in all the wrong ways, I won't elaborate on that since it would be off-topic. Despite my severe dislike though I recognize you can't have a blanket ban because that's not how free markets (or societies) work. An **informed** **adult** should be free to make their own decisions, but it's a government's duty to make sure that person is both an **adult** and **informed**. I have my own doubts on how the relics who currently hold political offices are suitable for the job, since online gaming is relatively new and hard to "fit" in existing laws but it has to start somewhere. > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > This isnt true since in Belgium their decision shut games down outright and with gw2 they permanently removed black lion chests. So yes it does ruin games. You do realize online gambling is allowed in Belgium right? So if you start selling something and refuse to label it properly according to that country's laws, would you expect the authorities to allow you selling that mislabeled product ad infinitum? It's your choice to refuse and you should be facing the consequences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VDAC.2137 Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 > @"hugo.4705" said: > > Not a matter of responsability, gambling is using mind tricks exploiting brain weaknesses, a very dangerous thing. Yes, it does work on some people’s psychology, as do food, drugs, sex and many other things good and bad. Some people have a greater weakness to some of these things than others. To out it simply, there are two options to deal with this: 1) People learn what things they can do in moderation and what things they need to avoid entirely and teach their children to do likewise (when I was a kid my parents controlled what money I had, where I could spend it, how many hours I spent on games, etc.) OR 2) We are all apparently irresponsible victimizable children who need the state to protect us from ourselves and all those who would prey on our weaknesses a la “1984.” I am all for making sure people have information to make the right decisions for themselves and their families and helping people who have problems overcome them, but I am not for taking away all such choices from everyone. Of course, loot boxes, however you define them, is a very small thing, but this same logic could so easily be extended to other desire and reward systems in the brain. It is, in my opinion, dehumanizing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XatraZaytrax.2601 Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 > @"Zaraki.5784" said: > Hopefully yes. > And hopefully it'll shake other countries as well, these money-milking RNG-kitten have to end, I want to be able to buy stuff, not buy a chance to get stuff! Then buy stuff and leave the BLCs alone. Why should everyone suffer because a few people can't or won't control themselves or pay attention to what their children are doing. I certainly don't need big brother/daddy government continuing to whittle down my choices because somehow they know what is best for me. Lootboxes today, soda tomorrow, red meat the week after. Governments have shown time again that they cannot be trusted with that type of power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trixantea.1230 Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 The world needs to forbid gambling alltogether. Nothing good comes from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiviana.2650 Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 Thats fine and all, but children do play these games, thats predominately what these bills are about. So the game makers either change how this works or slap a 21 sticker on the game, and that wont happen because they would risk losing players if gone to 21. And parents cant stand over their kids 24/7 any parent knows this, so in games that dont protect themselves with a mature or 21 sticker its assumed the gameplay is for all. I think the bill will pass, i may be wrong and so be it if i am. But the country has changed greatly in its thinking over the last few years, and things we thought that would never pass are now part of the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchonWing.9480 Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 > @"XatraZaytrax.2601" said: > > @"Zaraki.5784" said: > > Hopefully yes. > > And hopefully it'll shake other countries as well, these money-milking RNG-kitten have to end, I want to be able to buy stuff, not buy a chance to get stuff! > > Then buy stuff and leave the BLCs alone. Why should everyone suffer because a few people can't or won't control themselves or pay attention to what their children are doing. I certainly don't need big brother/daddy government continuing to whittle down my choices because somehow they know what is best for me. Lootboxes today, soda tomorrow, red meat the week after. Governments have shown time again that they cannot be trusted with that type of power. I don't buy loot boxes. I tell everyone around me it's a terrible idea. I'm telling everyone in the thread it's a terrible idea as we speak. I do this regularly on the forums and elsewhere. What's funny is I'm probably doing far more to discourage it than 99% of the empty, moralistic chestbeating in this thread, lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGrimm.5624 Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 If it makes it anywhere write your Congressional representative and get them feedback of your choice, for or against. Now I am going to be annoyed if I look at any other news considering all the things not getting done by government that needs addressing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angoril.2179 Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 I really hope this law passes. I honestly don't care about ArenaNet, they are big boys, they'll figure it out, although seeing how they refused to fix the issue with Belgium but instead they took the easy way out, that adds even more to it. I don't care about underage gambling either, never did, so I won't pretend that I want the law around for some moral cause. I don't like where the gaming industry is going though and when companies like EA, Bethesda, Ubisoft, even ArenaNet refuse to take any steps towards a better experience, but want to keep on with predatory practices, burn them all to the ground I say if they don't want to play nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChronoPinoyX.7923 Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > @"otto.5684" said: > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > @"otto.5684" said: > > > > > > I think sooner or later, they will tag a 21 years old on loot boxes. Games should stay away from gambling and just sell the cosmetics directly with no RNG. > > > > > > > > > > Sadly If they approve what you're saying, it could lead to the elimination of all rng in all games, thus eliminating rng drops from mobs and thus ruining the enjoyment of finding treasure and the enjoyment of the game itself. Technically everything in the game is chance, and time spent rolling on those chances of getting good treasure or loot. Since Time is money, elimination of all rng is essentially the argument you're making. > > > > > > > > Let’s not get bananas shall we? No reason for this kitten “oh no they well destroy the game.” Clearly this is about micro transactions, specifically randomized loot boxes purchasable with either real money or in game currency directly purchasable with money. > > > > > > > > The game shop will be much better if loot boxes were removed. > > > > > > this will destroy a ton of games, not just GW2, I don't understand why anyone wants this. Why don't parents just watch their children and the problem is solved? > > > > Why will it destroy them.. surely it means they have to think up better ways to make money rather than RNG boxes. > > Personally I don't feel ANET will need to do much more than they already do - ie every BLC offers something plus guaranteed statuettes in order to use against content purchases, mount select boxes added.. I think your taking things too extreme by saying it will destroy the game though tbh. > > > > There is no denying that gambling is an issue, there is no denying that underage gambling is a problem and there is also no getting away from the fact that gambling sells and it is often found to utilise predatory practices in order to sell, which is why countries are starting to act on these things. > > That said I agree, no one (at least no one I know) wants to live in a nanny state, but some level of control is required and to do that the gaming orgs, gambling institutions, parents and government must all take a slice of the responsibility cake otherwise if left unchecked the problems will persist and grow until government does have to step in enforce unpopular law. > > Take gatcha games for example. How do those games function with this law? You say they will come up with new ways of making money. But gw2 didnt. They just removed the black lion chests and were done with it. And the difference is that GW2 has other ways of keeping up revenue via cash shop and expansions. Gacha are designed solely to rely on microtransaction hoping for the best that it doesn't affect laws outside ones that allow it. So in truth, Gacha games are a terrible game design function because they are built to be a foundation, not an additional function. If a game is built to have Gacha be it's sole source of revenue, again, the developers and publishers shot themselves on the foot there, not the laws that prohibit their functions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einlanzer.1627 Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 > @"VDAC.2137" said: > > @"Erasculio.2914" said: > > [A U.S. Senator has introduced a bill to ban loot boxes and "pay-to-win" microtransactions](https://kotaku.com/u-s-senator-introduces-bill-to-ban-loot-boxes-and-pay-1834612226). > > > > While the "pay-to-win" ban probably wouldn't have any impact on Guild Wars 2, the Black Lion Chests are loot boxes, so they would be forbidden if this bill passes. > > > > What do you think will happen? > > Ugh, I really hope this bill is shot down, not as much for the BLCs as for the principle of it. I am sick of the encroachment of the nanny state, always infringing on our rights while hiding behind “it’s for the children” or whatever. :angry: Blah blah blah. You must not understand that some things actually need regulation to curb exploitation and the proliferation of bigger problems. That's how we have reasonable labor standards in the 21st century, although we really need to do some catching up with Europe. You may think you're a freethinking, rational adult, but you aren't. That's something Americans are indoctrinated into thinking. In reality, humans are easily manipulated through their dopamine-driven impulses and then rationalize their behavior after the fact. That's why Stockholm Syndrome exists. In short - we aren't rational. We're rationalizing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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