Aeolus.3615 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 cape colisions for some races might not work well... Well ANet could give backitems depending the race, the WvW glider and backpieve only looks good decent on Charrs, other races could have other things... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oglaf.1074 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 https://neverwintervault.org/sites/neverwintervault.org/files/project/14170/images/bearpelt.png https://staticdelivery.nexusmods.com/mods/110/images/13486-2-1338764680.jpg As a Norn afficionado, let me tell you that a relatively simple, semi-realistic and non-complex pelt/fur cloak would actually make me show my backpiece. I currently cannot stand any of the ones in the game (stupid wings everywhere -when did Tyria become home to the friggin Hawkmen?) and other nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexZero.7910 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 Well you see.... After the great cloth collapse of 1220AE cuts had to be made. Drastic cuts, it was at that time that the world knew trenchcoats would be the defining nature of combat. Cast aside the remnants of the past they did and so for a time the world had no heroes or capes. Then some genius golemmancer decided to adorn his golem with a cape before battle. And this kids is why you never go full Snaff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harper.4173 Posted October 5, 2017 Author Share Posted October 5, 2017 > @TEKnowledgy.1760 said: > Time happened I guess. i to miss the ol capes. To be honest though, most of the base armors gowns and trench coats would look even worse with capes considering anet lets clothing clip happen. > I just recently well within past year or so got turn cape back on for my ranger in gw1 when i switched from the ancient set to the vabbi armor set because the way clipping happened just kinda killed it for me vabbi set isnt a tench coat lol. There are armor combinations that would work with capes. And in all honestly, given as how much of a clip-fest the game is already, I doubt it would ruin much if a few capes clipped. Also there's a lot of armor that isn't a trench coat - like most heavy armor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harper.4173 Posted October 5, 2017 Author Share Posted October 5, 2017 > @Danikat.8537 said: > I love that you know better than Anet what their reasons for not adding capes are. > > Have you previewed the banner of ancient Elona in-game? It hovers a noticeable distance behind your character, and still clips into them every time it moves. (Even just rotating your character in the preview window does it.) A cape which should be much closer fitting and conform to the shape of your characters body instead of hanging from a frame would be a thousand times worse. > > Let me guess...they could fix that by "just" making it solid so it doesn't clip right? Nice idea...except solid objects in games (and other 3D animation) are _solid_. They don't bend and move around each other - it'd be like a sheet of cardboard attached to your character. That worked in GW1 because the rest of the animations were on a similar level but it'd look absurd in GW2. > > The alternative is to manually animate it and then have the physics engine running in the background constantly calculate what should happen and running the proper animations. That's what they do when good cape physics is unavoidable - the obvious example being the Batman Arkham games. There was no way they could make those without including a cape, and it needed to be well animated. [so they had someone spend **2 _years_** working on nothing else to get it right](http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/eidos-expects-batman-to-score-in-the-90s "So they had someone spend **2 _years_** working on nothing else to get it right"). And even then there's issues with clipping and weird animations. > > It's not a coincidence at all that most modern 3D games, except those that can't avoid it, don't include capes. It's just not worth it when the developers could spend that time and processing power building something that more players will actually appreciate. These are the two reasons that I remember them giving for not adding capes. If there are other reasons then by all means I would prefer to know them. I have not only previewed but also worn said item. It's not perfect - but it's a solution that I could live with if I could have a different model - perhaps one that wasn't Elona themed and that I could dye. I have a hard time accepting "clipping" as the issue like you suggest seeing how my legendary greatswords have clipped into my back since 2012. I complained about it then - it was never changed/fixed - so I guess I'm now immune to clipping issues. So I guess my answer to what you're saying is this: Give me Banner of Elona - one that I can dye and one that doesn't have the silly Ancient Elona tidbits at the top and I'll call it a cape and work with it. After all these years my standards are THAT low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harper.4173 Posted October 5, 2017 Author Share Posted October 5, 2017 > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said: > > @Dante.1763 said: > > > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said: > > > > @silvermember.8941 said: > > > > > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said: > > > > > > @Danikat.8537 said: > > > > > > I love that you know better than Anet what their reasons for not adding capes are. > > > > > > > > > > > > Have you previewed the banner of ancient Elona in-game? It hovers a noticeable distance behind your character, and still clips into them every time it moves. (Even just rotating your character in the preview window does it.) A cape which should be much closer fitting and conform to the shape of your characters body instead of hanging from a frame would be a thousand times worse. > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me guess...they could fix that by "just" making it solid so it doesn't clip right? Nice idea...except solid objects in games (and other 3D animation) are _solid_. They don't bend and move around each other - it'd be like a sheet of cardboard attached to your character. That worked in GW1 because the rest of the animations were on a similar level but it'd look absurd in GW2. > > > > > > > > > > > > The alternative is to manually animate it and then have the physics engine running in the background constantly calculate what should happen and running the proper animations. That's what they do when good cape physics is unavoidable - the obvious example being the Batman Arkham games. There was no way they could make those without including a cape, and it needed to be well animated. [so they had someone spend **2 _years_** working on nothing else to get it right](http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/eidos-expects-batman-to-score-in-the-90s "So they had someone spend **2 _years_** working on nothing else to get it right"). And even then there's issues with clipping and weird animations. > > > > > > > > > > > > It's not a coincidence at all that most modern 3D games, except those that can't avoid it, don't include capes. It's just not worth it when the developers could spend that time and processing power building something that more players will actually appreciate. > > > > > > > > > > So how did they do it in gw1? > > > > > > > > Are you serious? Reread the post again. > > > > > > Yeah if I want realistic physics. I don't think people will cry if their capes aren't PIXAR quality. They just want capes. > > > > > > For the record I dont care about capes. But I see this as a small cop out. It worked in gw1 because "animation was similar"? What does that MEAN? > > > > > > In actuality. I am not knowledgeable in 3d animation like you. > > > > The animations where stiff as hell and didnt really move with your character. The cape acted more like a pair of jeans that had been covered in paint and left to dry. > > And yet people were super happy. > I don't think it's a stretch at this point to assume the capers will be thankful for a napkin tucked into their collar. I would agree with you but there is SO Much stuff that's visually wrong with GW2 right now that stiff capes or "banner of elona" capes wouldn't possibly hurt it in any way. Plus - it would be a good thing to sell on the gem store. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harper.4173 Posted October 5, 2017 Author Share Posted October 5, 2017 > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said: > > > @Dante.1763 said: > > > The animations where stiff as hell and didnt really move with your character. The cape acted more like a pair of jeans that had been covered in paint and left to dry. > > > > And yet people were super happy. > > Um, no. I **never** liked capes in GW1. The animations looked awkward to me, hid other parts of animation, and were horrid to match to the rest of my gear. > > > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said: > > I don't think it's a stretch at this point to assume the capers will be thankful for a napkin tucked into their collar. > Sure, some people will be satisfied with anything. But most people wouldn't be. And, once capes were added at all, people would clamor for improvements. > > Regardless, just adding capes in even napkin form is a fair bit of work. > > In short, as with most things, ArenaNet will always do things right or not bother (we might disagree with them about how well they actually did, but there's rarely any legit question that they aimed high to start with). Just like we clamor for improvements with all the other things that don't get improved. People clamoring doesn't mean anything. Every backpiece in the game clips with your back weapons. Some swords go right through the ground when they're on your hip. There's really no "pressure" added because of these things and honestly I haven't even seen people say anything about them because we've had this since 2012 and nothing has changed. Also - capes should have an "off" button - ideally they'd work like back pieces. Don't like them? Don't wear them. I dislike 80% of what they've put in the game visually but i'm not arguing it shouldn't be there because I dislike it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harper.4173 Posted October 5, 2017 Author Share Posted October 5, 2017 > @Dante.1763 said: > > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said: > > > @Dante.1763 said: > > > > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said: > > > > > @Dante.1763 said: > > > > > > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said: > > > > > > > @silvermember.8941 said: > > > > > > > > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said: > > > > > > > > > @Danikat.8537 said: > > > > > > > > > I love that you know better than Anet what their reasons for not adding capes are. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Have you previewed the banner of ancient Elona in-game? It hovers a noticeable distance behind your character, and still clips into them every time it moves. (Even just rotating your character in the preview window does it.) A cape which should be much closer fitting and conform to the shape of your characters body instead of hanging from a frame would be a thousand times worse. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me guess...they could fix that by "just" making it solid so it doesn't clip right? Nice idea...except solid objects in games (and other 3D animation) are _solid_. They don't bend and move around each other - it'd be like a sheet of cardboard attached to your character. That worked in GW1 because the rest of the animations were on a similar level but it'd look absurd in GW2. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The alternative is to manually animate it and then have the physics engine running in the background constantly calculate what should happen and running the proper animations. That's what they do when good cape physics is unavoidable - the obvious example being the Batman Arkham games. There was no way they could make those without including a cape, and it needed to be well animated. [so they had someone spend **2 _years_** working on nothing else to get it right](http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/eidos-expects-batman-to-score-in-the-90s "So they had someone spend **2 _years_** working on nothing else to get it right"). And even then there's issues with clipping and weird animations. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's not a coincidence at all that most modern 3D games, except those that can't avoid it, don't include capes. It's just not worth it when the developers could spend that time and processing power building something that more players will actually appreciate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So how did they do it in gw1? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you serious? Reread the post again. > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah if I want realistic physics. I don't think people will cry if their capes aren't PIXAR quality. They just want capes. > > > > > > > > > > > > For the record I dont care about capes. But I see this as a small cop out. It worked in gw1 because "animation was similar"? What does that MEAN? > > > > > > > > > > > > In actuality. I am not knowledgeable in 3d animation like you. > > > > > > > > > > The animations where stiff as hell and didnt really move with your character. The cape acted more like a pair of jeans that had been covered in paint and left to dry. > > > > > > > > And yet people were super happy. > > > > I don't think it's a stretch at this point to assume the capers will be thankful for a napkin tucked into their collar. > > > > > > And yet..people werent at the same time. > > > > I think is reasonable to say that the capers are numerically similar if not more vocal than mounters. > > > > And we got mounts. > > We got mounts because theyve been in the works for a /long/ time. Maybe they already are with capes, who knows, but the amount of work they would need to do to make them functional and make players /not/ complain may be /alot/ more than people think, on top of that, players constantly complain about butt capes, i dont see how real capes would add anything but more complaints. I'm not a developer - so I don't know - but maybe one of you 3d animation savvy people could let me know. How much work goes into taking "Banner of Elona" - cutting the top part of it and giving it a more generic top. (The "Ancient Elonian" decoration part), taking the symbol off it and making it so players can apply a dye? Again - I would point out that despite people claiming they are - player complaints are really not an issue. People have complained about clipping issues since 2012 and I haven't seen those issues fixed. People that wear MEDIUM armor complain about buttcapes ( which is a name they use for trenchcoat armor) - they're literally complaining about the lack of variety in armor for medium sets. Capes are a different issue - and they would work for ALL armor weights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante.1763 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 If they did get added, theyd just make them back items though, so they would still be undyeable, unless they totally redid backpacks to make them dyeable(which would be a good choice i think). Then everyone would be happy, so long as they kept adding a mix of different backpack types. > @Harper.4173 said: > > @Dante.1763 said: > > > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said: > > > > @Dante.1763 said: > > > > > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said: > > > > > > @Dante.1763 said: > > > > > > > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said: > > > > > > > > @silvermember.8941 said: > > > > > > > > > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said: > > > > > > > > > > @Danikat.8537 said: > > > > > > > > > > I love that you know better than Anet what their reasons for not adding capes are. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Have you previewed the banner of ancient Elona in-game? It hovers a noticeable distance behind your character, and still clips into them every time it moves. (Even just rotating your character in the preview window does it.) A cape which should be much closer fitting and conform to the shape of your characters body instead of hanging from a frame would be a thousand times worse. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me guess...they could fix that by "just" making it solid so it doesn't clip right? Nice idea...except solid objects in games (and other 3D animation) are _solid_. They don't bend and move around each other - it'd be like a sheet of cardboard attached to your character. That worked in GW1 because the rest of the animations were on a similar level but it'd look absurd in GW2. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The alternative is to manually animate it and then have the physics engine running in the background constantly calculate what should happen and running the proper animations. That's what they do when good cape physics is unavoidable - the obvious example being the Batman Arkham games. There was no way they could make those without including a cape, and it needed to be well animated. [so they had someone spend **2 _years_** working on nothing else to get it right](http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/eidos-expects-batman-to-score-in-the-90s "So they had someone spend **2 _years_** working on nothing else to get it right"). And even then there's issues with clipping and weird animations. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's not a coincidence at all that most modern 3D games, except those that can't avoid it, don't include capes. It's just not worth it when the developers could spend that time and processing power building something that more players will actually appreciate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So how did they do it in gw1? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you serious? Reread the post again. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah if I want realistic physics. I don't think people will cry if their capes aren't PIXAR quality. They just want capes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For the record I dont care about capes. But I see this as a small cop out. It worked in gw1 because "animation was similar"? What does that MEAN? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In actuality. I am not knowledgeable in 3d animation like you. > > > > > > > > > > > > The animations where stiff as hell and didnt really move with your character. The cape acted more like a pair of jeans that had been covered in paint and left to dry. > > > > > > > > > > And yet people were super happy. > > > > > I don't think it's a stretch at this point to assume the capers will be thankful for a napkin tucked into their collar. > > > > > > > > And yet..people werent at the same time. > > > > > > I think is reasonable to say that the capers are numerically similar if not more vocal than mounters. > > > > > > And we got mounts. > > > > We got mounts because theyve been in the works for a /long/ time. Maybe they already are with capes, who knows, but the amount of work they would need to do to make them functional and make players /not/ complain may be /alot/ more than people think, on top of that, players constantly complain about butt capes, i dont see how real capes would add anything but more complaints. > > I'm not a developer - so I don't know - but maybe one of you 3d animation savvy people could let me know. How much work goes into taking "Banner of Elona" - cutting the top part of it and giving it a more generic top. (The "Ancient Elonian" decoration part), taking the symbol off it and making it so players can apply a dye? > Again - I would point out that despite people claiming they are - player complaints are really not an issue. People have complained about clipping issues since 2012 and I haven't seen those issues fixed. > People that wear MEDIUM armor complain about buttcapes ( which is a name they use for trenchcoat armor) - they're literally complaining about the lack of variety in armor for medium sets. > Capes are a different issue - and they would work for ALL armor weights. as for this, i do 3d modeling in my spare time, and depending on how well you wanted it to look it could take awhile depending on the software they use. Not to mention the code theyd have to make/write to enable dye channels on backpacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palador.2170 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 > @Harper.4173 said: > GW1 had something unique > -capes. As an old City of Heroes player, I'm going to laugh at this. Then cry a little. Seriously, CoH figured out how to make capes work YEARS ago. And they looked pretty good, too. Yes, they only had three body types, but they had to fit a very wide range of animations, including poses that left you hunched over to run wire-art ninja style, or on all fours like a charr. The worst clipping you would get is when you would sit on a chair, which GW2 seems to have preemptively avoided anyway. But... They did cause a hit to game performance. For the big raid of the game, it was suggested (by players) that everyone show up wearing a "raid costume" that lacked a cape or anything else that would cause a hit when rendered. Characters were limited to one cape effect each (the lower part of a CoH trenchcoat was a cape effect, for example) to reduce the strain they could cause. So, what would you be willing to give up to get a cape? Perhaps you can't have a mini out if you have a cape, and they turn off in overly crowded areas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drgast.1469 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 Bring back capes. Do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panda.1967 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 We were told way back in the original beta that Capes were originally a planned feature, but due to issues with modeling capes on Charr they were scrapped. Traditional capes had major clipping issues with Charr, they tried doing a split cape design on Charr to resolve the issue, but decided that it didn't look as good as a full cape and figured people would be more disappointed with the shotty split capes than to just not have capes all together. And so capes got scrapped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harper.4173 Posted October 5, 2017 Author Share Posted October 5, 2017 > @Dante.1763 said: > If they did get added, theyd just make them back items though, so they would still be undyeable, unless they totally redid backpacks to make them dyeable(which would be a good choice i think). Then everyone would be happy, so long as they kept adding a mix of different backpack types. > > > > @Harper.4173 said: > > > @Dante.1763 said: > > > > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said: > > > > > @Dante.1763 said: > > > > > > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said: > > > > > > > @Dante.1763 said: > > > > > > > > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said: > > > > > > > > > @silvermember.8941 said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @Danikat.8537 said: > > > > > > > > > > > I love that you know better than Anet what their reasons for not adding capes are. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Have you previewed the banner of ancient Elona in-game? It hovers a noticeable distance behind your character, and still clips into them every time it moves. (Even just rotating your character in the preview window does it.) A cape which should be much closer fitting and conform to the shape of your characters body instead of hanging from a frame would be a thousand times worse. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me guess...they could fix that by "just" making it solid so it doesn't clip right? Nice idea...except solid objects in games (and other 3D animation) are _solid_. They don't bend and move around each other - it'd be like a sheet of cardboard attached to your character. That worked in GW1 because the rest of the animations were on a similar level but it'd look absurd in GW2. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The alternative is to manually animate it and then have the physics engine running in the background constantly calculate what should happen and running the proper animations. That's what they do when good cape physics is unavoidable - the obvious example being the Batman Arkham games. There was no way they could make those without including a cape, and it needed to be well animated. [so they had someone spend **2 _years_** working on nothing else to get it right](http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/eidos-expects-batman-to-score-in-the-90s "So they had someone spend **2 _years_** working on nothing else to get it right"). And even then there's issues with clipping and weird animations. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's not a coincidence at all that most modern 3D games, except those that can't avoid it, don't include capes. It's just not worth it when the developers could spend that time and processing power building something that more players will actually appreciate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So how did they do it in gw1? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you serious? Reread the post again. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah if I want realistic physics. I don't think people will cry if their capes aren't PIXAR quality. They just want capes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For the record I dont care about capes. But I see this as a small cop out. It worked in gw1 because "animation was similar"? What does that MEAN? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In actuality. I am not knowledgeable in 3d animation like you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The animations where stiff as hell and didnt really move with your character. The cape acted more like a pair of jeans that had been covered in paint and left to dry. > > > > > > > > > > > > And yet people were super happy. > > > > > > I don't think it's a stretch at this point to assume the capers will be thankful for a napkin tucked into their collar. > > > > > > > > > > And yet..people werent at the same time. > > > > > > > > I think is reasonable to say that the capers are numerically similar if not more vocal than mounters. > > > > > > > > And we got mounts. > > > > > > We got mounts because theyve been in the works for a /long/ time. Maybe they already are with capes, who knows, but the amount of work they would need to do to make them functional and make players /not/ complain may be /alot/ more than people think, on top of that, players constantly complain about butt capes, i dont see how real capes would add anything but more complaints. > > > > I'm not a developer - so I don't know - but maybe one of you 3d animation savvy people could let me know. How much work goes into taking "Banner of Elona" - cutting the top part of it and giving it a more generic top. (The "Ancient Elonian" decoration part), taking the symbol off it and making it so players can apply a dye? > > Again - I would point out that despite people claiming they are - player complaints are really not an issue. People have complained about clipping issues since 2012 and I haven't seen those issues fixed. > > People that wear MEDIUM armor complain about buttcapes ( which is a name they use for trenchcoat armor) - they're literally complaining about the lack of variety in armor for medium sets. > > Capes are a different issue - and they would work for ALL armor weights. > > > as for this, i do 3d modeling in my spare time, and depending on how well you wanted it to look it could take awhile depending on the software they use. Not to mention the code theyd have to make/write to enable dye channels on backpacks. Well - how much would it take to just make it look as good as the Banners of Ancient Elona we currently have? I mean - it's in the game already. The dye thing - yes it could take a while - but honestly - I think it could be done. It would make them money too. But then again - it's been about 3 weeks since the Xpack hit and the gemstore has yet to show any signs of mount skins - so maybe they don't like money? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante.1763 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 > @Harper.4173 said: > > @Dante.1763 said: > > If they did get added, theyd just make them back items though, so they would still be undyeable, unless they totally redid backpacks to make them dyeable(which would be a good choice i think). Then everyone would be happy, so long as they kept adding a mix of different backpack types. > > > > > > > @Harper.4173 said: > > > > @Dante.1763 said: > > > > > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said: > > > > > > @Dante.1763 said: > > > > > > > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said: > > > > > > > > @Dante.1763 said: > > > > > > > > > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said: > > > > > > > > > > @silvermember.8941 said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @Danikat.8537 said: > > > > > > > > > > > > I love that you know better than Anet what their reasons for not adding capes are. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Have you previewed the banner of ancient Elona in-game? It hovers a noticeable distance behind your character, and still clips into them every time it moves. (Even just rotating your character in the preview window does it.) A cape which should be much closer fitting and conform to the shape of your characters body instead of hanging from a frame would be a thousand times worse. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me guess...they could fix that by "just" making it solid so it doesn't clip right? Nice idea...except solid objects in games (and other 3D animation) are _solid_. They don't bend and move around each other - it'd be like a sheet of cardboard attached to your character. That worked in GW1 because the rest of the animations were on a similar level but it'd look absurd in GW2. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The alternative is to manually animate it and then have the physics engine running in the background constantly calculate what should happen and running the proper animations. That's what they do when good cape physics is unavoidable - the obvious example being the Batman Arkham games. There was no way they could make those without including a cape, and it needed to be well animated. [so they had someone spend **2 _years_** working on nothing else to get it right](http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/eidos-expects-batman-to-score-in-the-90s "So they had someone spend **2 _years_** working on nothing else to get it right"). And even then there's issues with clipping and weird animations. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's not a coincidence at all that most modern 3D games, except those that can't avoid it, don't include capes. It's just not worth it when the developers could spend that time and processing power building something that more players will actually appreciate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So how did they do it in gw1? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you serious? Reread the post again. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah if I want realistic physics. I don't think people will cry if their capes aren't PIXAR quality. They just want capes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For the record I dont care about capes. But I see this as a small cop out. It worked in gw1 because "animation was similar"? What does that MEAN? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In actuality. I am not knowledgeable in 3d animation like you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The animations where stiff as hell and didnt really move with your character. The cape acted more like a pair of jeans that had been covered in paint and left to dry. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And yet people were super happy. > > > > > > > I don't think it's a stretch at this point to assume the capers will be thankful for a napkin tucked into their collar. > > > > > > > > > > > > And yet..people werent at the same time. > > > > > > > > > > I think is reasonable to say that the capers are numerically similar if not more vocal than mounters. > > > > > > > > > > And we got mounts. > > > > > > > > We got mounts because theyve been in the works for a /long/ time. Maybe they already are with capes, who knows, but the amount of work they would need to do to make them functional and make players /not/ complain may be /alot/ more than people think, on top of that, players constantly complain about butt capes, i dont see how real capes would add anything but more complaints. > > > > > > I'm not a developer - so I don't know - but maybe one of you 3d animation savvy people could let me know. How much work goes into taking "Banner of Elona" - cutting the top part of it and giving it a more generic top. (The "Ancient Elonian" decoration part), taking the symbol off it and making it so players can apply a dye? > > > Again - I would point out that despite people claiming they are - player complaints are really not an issue. People have complained about clipping issues since 2012 and I haven't seen those issues fixed. > > > People that wear MEDIUM armor complain about buttcapes ( which is a name they use for trenchcoat armor) - they're literally complaining about the lack of variety in armor for medium sets. > > > Capes are a different issue - and they would work for ALL armor weights. > > > > > > as for this, i do 3d modeling in my spare time, and depending on how well you wanted it to look it could take awhile depending on the software they use. Not to mention the code theyd have to make/write to enable dye channels on backpacks. > > Well - how much would it take to just make it look as good as the Banners of Ancient Elona we currently have? I mean - it's in the game already. The dye thing - yes it could take a while - but honestly - I think it could be done. It would make them money too. But then again - it's been about 3 weeks since the Xpack hit and the gemstore has yet to show any signs of mount skins - so maybe they don't like money? I cant say, it would depend on which software they are using, and how the models themselves are set up. Are they meant to be easily modifiable or not? i highly doubt they are, given how long theyve stated it takes to get a full set of armor out vs an outfit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harper.4173 Posted October 5, 2017 Author Share Posted October 5, 2017 > @Palador.2170 said: > > @Harper.4173 said: > > GW1 had something unique > > -capes. > As an old City of Heroes player, I'm going to laugh at this. Then cry a little. > > Seriously, CoH figured out how to make capes work YEARS ago. And they looked pretty good, too. Yes, they only had three body types, but they had to fit a very wide range of animations, including poses that left you hunched over to run wire-art ninja style, or on all fours like a charr. The worst clipping you would get is when you would sit on a chair, which GW2 seems to have preemptively avoided anyway. > > But... They did cause a hit to game performance. For the big raid of the game, it was suggested (by players) that everyone show up wearing a "raid costume" that lacked a cape or anything else that would cause a hit when rendered. Characters were limited to one cape effect each (the lower part of a CoH trenchcoat was a cape effect, for example) to reduce the strain they could cause. > > So, what would you be willing to give up to get a cape? Perhaps you can't have a mini out if you have a cape, and they turn off in overly crowded areas? I was of course trying to say unique when comparing to GW2. I guess I didn't say it in those words so I understand your point but I honestly don't think you could assume - in good faith - that I'm unaware that other games had capes before GW1. Do I seem that unintelligent? (not that you said that - but i'd pretty much have to be). GW2 already has culling technology. You can already dim down the effects of other players. In some modes you can even go as far as replacing their model with a standard generic one. So I don't think an option to "Hide all other players capes". We already have server architecture that hides minis when too many players are around. So if I had to choose - I'd lose the mini and wear the cape. And I couldn't care less if they turned off in crowded areas. Compromise is everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harper.4173 Posted October 5, 2017 Author Share Posted October 5, 2017 > @Panda.1967 said: > We were told way back in the original beta that Capes were originally a planned feature, but due to issues with modeling capes on Charr they were scrapped. Traditional capes had major clipping issues with Charr, they tried doing a split cape design on Charr to resolve the issue, but decided that it didn't look as good as a full cape and figured people would be more disappointed with the shotty split capes than to just not have capes all together. And so capes got scrapped. Yeah - a wonderful idea. Another wonderful idea would have been for capes to be a unique visual accessory that was race-specific. Humans get a standard cape. Norn get a tattered animal cape. Charr don't get a cape - they get something else. Asura don't get a cape - they get something else. Like a powerpack. Sylvari don't get a cape - they get something else. What do Charr and Sylvari get? I don't really know. Is this discriminatory? Yes. But it's not like it isn't or wasn't in the game. At launch we had the cultural armor skins (which at the time were some of the most prestigious armor sets) and they were all race-specific. To this day I can't wear norn cultural on a human or the other way around. So could this have been such a huge issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oglaf.1074 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 > @Panda.1967 said: > We were told way back in the original beta that Capes were originally a planned feature, but due to issues with modeling capes on Charr they were scrapped. Traditional capes had major clipping issues with Charr, they tried doing a split cape design on Charr to resolve the issue, but decided that it didn't look as good as a full cape and figured people would be more disappointed with the shotty split capes than to just not have capes all together. And so capes got scrapped. Way to ruin it for everyone else, Charr...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harper.4173 Posted October 5, 2017 Author Share Posted October 5, 2017 > @Dante.1763 said: > > @Harper.4173 said: > > > @Dante.1763 said: > > > If they did get added, theyd just make them back items though, so they would still be undyeable, unless they totally redid backpacks to make them dyeable(which would be a good choice i think). Then everyone would be happy, so long as they kept adding a mix of different backpack types. > > > > > > > > > > @Harper.4173 said: > > > > > @Dante.1763 said: > > > > > > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said: > > > > > > > @Dante.1763 said: > > > > > > > > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said: > > > > > > > > > @Dante.1763 said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @silvermember.8941 said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @Danikat.8537 said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > I love that you know better than Anet what their reasons for not adding capes are. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Have you previewed the banner of ancient Elona in-game? It hovers a noticeable distance behind your character, and still clips into them every time it moves. (Even just rotating your character in the preview window does it.) A cape which should be much closer fitting and conform to the shape of your characters body instead of hanging from a frame would be a thousand times worse. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me guess...they could fix that by "just" making it solid so it doesn't clip right? Nice idea...except solid objects in games (and other 3D animation) are _solid_. They don't bend and move around each other - it'd be like a sheet of cardboard attached to your character. That worked in GW1 because the rest of the animations were on a similar level but it'd look absurd in GW2. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The alternative is to manually animate it and then have the physics engine running in the background constantly calculate what should happen and running the proper animations. That's what they do when good cape physics is unavoidable - the obvious example being the Batman Arkham games. There was no way they could make those without including a cape, and it needed to be well animated. [so they had someone spend **2 _years_** working on nothing else to get it right](http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/eidos-expects-batman-to-score-in-the-90s "So they had someone spend **2 _years_** working on nothing else to get it right"). And even then there's issues with clipping and weird animations. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's not a coincidence at all that most modern 3D games, except those that can't avoid it, don't include capes. It's just not worth it when the developers could spend that time and processing power building something that more players will actually appreciate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So how did they do it in gw1? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you serious? Reread the post again. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah if I want realistic physics. I don't think people will cry if their capes aren't PIXAR quality. They just want capes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For the record I dont care about capes. But I see this as a small cop out. It worked in gw1 because "animation was similar"? What does that MEAN? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In actuality. I am not knowledgeable in 3d animation like you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The animations where stiff as hell and didnt really move with your character. The cape acted more like a pair of jeans that had been covered in paint and left to dry. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And yet people were super happy. > > > > > > > > I don't think it's a stretch at this point to assume the capers will be thankful for a napkin tucked into their collar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And yet..people werent at the same time. > > > > > > > > > > > > I think is reasonable to say that the capers are numerically similar if not more vocal than mounters. > > > > > > > > > > > > And we got mounts. > > > > > > > > > > We got mounts because theyve been in the works for a /long/ time. Maybe they already are with capes, who knows, but the amount of work they would need to do to make them functional and make players /not/ complain may be /alot/ more than people think, on top of that, players constantly complain about butt capes, i dont see how real capes would add anything but more complaints. > > > > > > > > I'm not a developer - so I don't know - but maybe one of you 3d animation savvy people could let me know. How much work goes into taking "Banner of Elona" - cutting the top part of it and giving it a more generic top. (The "Ancient Elonian" decoration part), taking the symbol off it and making it so players can apply a dye? > > > > Again - I would point out that despite people claiming they are - player complaints are really not an issue. People have complained about clipping issues since 2012 and I haven't seen those issues fixed. > > > > People that wear MEDIUM armor complain about buttcapes ( which is a name they use for trenchcoat armor) - they're literally complaining about the lack of variety in armor for medium sets. > > > > Capes are a different issue - and they would work for ALL armor weights. > > > > > > > > > as for this, i do 3d modeling in my spare time, and depending on how well you wanted it to look it could take awhile depending on the software they use. Not to mention the code theyd have to make/write to enable dye channels on backpacks. > > > > Well - how much would it take to just make it look as good as the Banners of Ancient Elona we currently have? I mean - it's in the game already. The dye thing - yes it could take a while - but honestly - I think it could be done. It would make them money too. But then again - it's been about 3 weeks since the Xpack hit and the gemstore has yet to show any signs of mount skins - so maybe they don't like money? > > I cant say, it would depend on which software they are using, and how the models themselves are set up. Are they meant to be easily modifiable or not? i highly doubt they are, given how long theyve stated it takes to get a full set of armor out vs an outfit. I would settle for colors and maybe a straight vs a tattered bottom part. What other modifications could you even add? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oglaf.1074 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 > @Panda.1967 said: > We were told way back in the original beta that Capes were originally a planned feature, but due to issues with modeling capes on Charr they were scrapped. Traditional capes had major clipping issues with Charr, they tried doing a split cape design on Charr to resolve the issue, but decided that it didn't look as good as a full cape and figured people would be more disappointed with the shotty split capes than to just not have capes all together. And so capes got scrapped. EDIT: accidental double-post. derp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigirius.9014 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 > @Harper.4173 said: > For those of you not in the loop - GW2's prequel - GW1 had something unique and wonderful which you could add to your character in order to customize -capes. > Despite being requested multiple times - GW2 has never had capes - for a variety of "supposed" reasons. > > One of the reasons I remember (Although I can't find the post) was posted by Gaile Gray - saying something along the lines of "we want you to have an unobstructed view of your character in order to better identify with it. Well - with the addition of massively oversized and bloated backpieces I think we can declare this reason obsolete. > I mean - there's so many backpieces that make it impossible to see anything (to name just one - WvW legendary Warbringer - or some of the crafting ones where you carry around a piece of furniture on your back) that this reason cannot possibly be considered valid today. > > Another reason was the "lack of technical means" but given that one backpiece in PoF is almost a cape that can't be it either can it? > http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/gw2-banner-of-ancient-elona_thumb.jpg > > So - what is it? What's the reason for not having capes in GW2? Sounds like arguments we once saw against mounts yet here we have mounts in the game. So will capes be restricted until the next expansion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Hide.6345 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 > @tigirius.9014 said: > > @Harper.4173 said: > > For those of you not in the loop - GW2's prequel - GW1 had something unique and wonderful which you could add to your character in order to customize -capes. > > Despite being requested multiple times - GW2 has never had capes - for a variety of "supposed" reasons. > > > > One of the reasons I remember (Although I can't find the post) was posted by Gaile Gray - saying something along the lines of "we want you to have an unobstructed view of your character in order to better identify with it. Well - with the addition of massively oversized and bloated backpieces I think we can declare this reason obsolete. > > I mean - there's so many backpieces that make it impossible to see anything (to name just one - WvW legendary Warbringer - or some of the crafting ones where you carry around a piece of furniture on your back) that this reason cannot possibly be considered valid today. > > > > Another reason was the "lack of technical means" but given that one backpiece in PoF is almost a cape that can't be it either can it? > > http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/gw2-banner-of-ancient-elona_thumb.jpg > > > > So - what is it? What's the reason for not having capes in GW2? > > Sounds like arguments we once saw against mounts yet here we have mounts in the game. So will capes be restricted until the next expansion? They could be, but at least, you would still get them. On a side note, I want to watch The Incredibles now with all this cape talk... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omega Mayhem.7163 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 No capes! - Edna Mode Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panda.1967 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 > @Harper.4173 said: > > @Panda.1967 said: > > We were told way back in the original beta that Capes were originally a planned feature, but due to issues with modeling capes on Charr they were scrapped. Traditional capes had major clipping issues with Charr, they tried doing a split cape design on Charr to resolve the issue, but decided that it didn't look as good as a full cape and figured people would be more disappointed with the shotty split capes than to just not have capes all together. And so capes got scrapped. > > Yeah - a wonderful idea. Another wonderful idea would have been for capes to be a unique visual accessory that was race-specific. Humans get a standard cape. Norn get a tattered animal cape. Charr don't get a cape - they get something else. Asura don't get a cape - they get something else. Like a powerpack. Sylvari don't get a cape - they get something else. What do Charr and Sylvari get? I don't really know. > > Is this discriminatory? Yes. But it's not like it isn't or wasn't in the game. At launch we had the cultural armor skins (which at the time were some of the most prestigious armor sets) and they were all race-specific. To this day I can't wear norn cultural on a human or the other way around. > So could this have been such a huge issue? I don't know why people keep thinking that there were issues with capes on Asura... they only ran into issues with Charr due to their shape. Asura still have the same general body structure as humans, and as a result capes worked just fine on them. The only real "issue" with capes on Asura would have been level of detail, since they are so much smaller than other races, there's not a whole lot of detail they could put into capes on Asura without them looking like a cluttered mess. As for the different items for different races thing... again, they considered that, but decided it was better to not go forward with that idea after trying split capes on Charr. They made the guild banners and backpacks instead. Now, it's been 5 years, they've had more practice with different things and surely by now they can make a cape work on Charr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harper.4173 Posted October 6, 2017 Author Share Posted October 6, 2017 > @Dante.1763 said:> I cant say, it would depend on which software they are using, and how the models themselves are set up. Are they meant to be easily modifiable or not? i highly doubt they are, given how long theyve stated it takes to get a full set of armor out vs an outfit. I would settle for colors and maybe a straight vs a tattered bottom part. What other modifications could you even add? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harper.4173 Posted October 6, 2017 Author Share Posted October 6, 2017 > @tigirius.9014 said: > > @Harper.4173 said: > > For those of you not in the loop - GW2's prequel - GW1 had something unique and wonderful which you could add to your character in order to customize -capes. > > Despite being requested multiple times - GW2 has never had capes - for a variety of "supposed" reasons. > > > > One of the reasons I remember (Although I can't find the post) was posted by Gaile Gray - saying something along the lines of "we want you to have an unobstructed view of your character in order to better identify with it. Well - with the addition of massively oversized and bloated backpieces I think we can declare this reason obsolete. > > I mean - there's so many backpieces that make it impossible to see anything (to name just one - WvW legendary Warbringer - or some of the crafting ones where you carry around a piece of furniture on your back) that this reason cannot possibly be considered valid today. > > > > Another reason was the "lack of technical means" but given that one backpiece in PoF is almost a cape that can't be it either can it? > > http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/gw2-banner-of-ancient-elona_thumb.jpg > > > > So - what is it? What's the reason for not having capes in GW2? > > Sounds like arguments we once saw against mounts yet here we have mounts in the game. So will capes be restricted until the next expansion? I've thought about it. There was some information that player housing was in the works and might be coming with a next expansion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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