Skyscale: could it use an overhaul?

[Daishi.6027]

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > @"Daishi.6027" said:

> > I just want to chime in on something I noticed and is a bit ridiculous and makes the mount feel over all clunky.

> >

> > Mid air mount is already pretty bad, it doesn't raise fast enough to negate a lot of the downward motion unless you are dodging upwards, but it's kind of pointless because of how much you are almost required to fall reduces the canopy. But often if you are shot out of a thermal tube, go glide up a leyline, or jumping off griffen after rising, into skyscale while already pretty high there is a massive red bar forcing you to drop altitude.

> >

> > It's bad enough that you are innately forced to drop while transitioning, but the fact it can sometimes impose a red bar as well is even worse.

> >

> > A-net just flat out remove this, it's clunky and feels pretty bad to use at best, and makes it flat out inferior to griffin when mounting mid air at worst.

> >

> > **If I mount mid air, that is where the bottom of the canopy should START, and we should come out hovering in mid air.**

>

> They should only do this if it’s your first time mounting the skyscale since leaving the ground. What I mean by this is that otherwise there would be the potential to keep using the dismount skill to reset the canopy and flight meter.

 

If it reallly breaks something; fine.

 

But honestly at a 30 second cooldown, I don’t see to much of an issue when A-net invisible walls anything you really shouldn’t access anyways.

[Random Wax Orc.7695]

Some of the above comments do seem to warrant some tweaks, but there is one change I would suggest. The **blue bar should recharge at minimum flying height** instead of requiring landing. This would improve the aesthetic and feel to something more worthy of riding a dragon.

[Ayrilana.1396]

> @"Daishi.6027" said:

> > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > @"Daishi.6027" said:

> > > I just want to chime in on something I noticed and is a bit ridiculous and makes the mount feel over all clunky.

> > >

> > > Mid air mount is already pretty bad, it doesn't raise fast enough to negate a lot of the downward motion unless you are dodging upwards, but it's kind of pointless because of how much you are almost required to fall reduces the canopy. But often if you are shot out of a thermal tube, go glide up a leyline, or jumping off griffen after rising, into skyscale while already pretty high there is a massive red bar forcing you to drop altitude.

> > >

> > > It's bad enough that you are innately forced to drop while transitioning, but the fact it can sometimes impose a red bar as well is even worse.

> > >

> > > A-net just flat out remove this, it's clunky and feels pretty bad to use at best, and makes it flat out inferior to griffin when mounting mid air at worst.

> > >

> > > **If I mount mid air, that is where the bottom of the canopy should START, and we should come out hovering in mid air.**

> >

> > They should only do this if it’s your first time mounting the skyscale since leaving the ground. What I mean by this is that otherwise there would be the potential to keep using the dismount skill to reset the canopy and flight meter.

>

> If it reallly breaks something; fine.

>

> But honestly at a 30 second cooldown, I don’t see to much of an issue when A-net invisible walls anything you really shouldn’t access anyways.

 

It's not just about placing invisible walls around areas that players shouldn't access which something Anet hasn't been completely successful at anyway. What several people on the forums seemingly want is a mount with true flight. In my opinion, it's one of the worst things that you could add to this game.

 

One suggestion that I would make is to give the mount more evasion frames. It appears to be the worst as dodging stuff.

 

It's okay that you think it's fine that it would break something because you'd get something that you want in exchange but it's not the best thing for the game to follow that approach.

[Tails.9372]

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> It's okay that you think it's fine that it would break something

 

Except there's nothing left to break here. Everything worth protecting already restricts mount usage and everything else gets either already steamrolled by the other mounts or was never supposed to be a challenge in the first place.

[Ayrilana.1396]

> @"Tails.9372" said:

> > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > It's okay that you think it's fine that it would break something

>

> Except there's nothing left to break here. Everything worth protecting already restricts mount usage and everything else gets either already steamrolled by the other mounts or was never supposed to be a challenge in the first place.

 

No, not really. All of the other mounts have limitations as well.

[Tails.9372]

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > @"Tails.9372" said:

> > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > It's okay that you think it's fine that it would break something

> >

> > Except there's nothing left to break here. Everything worth protecting already restricts mount usage and everything else gets either already steamrolled by the other mounts or was never supposed to be a challenge in the first place.

>

> No, not really. All of the other mounts have limitations as well.

 

And so has the skyscale: even with free flight you still wouldn't be able to use it for diving, to search areas filled with long ranged attack spam and its speed is to limited to be an effective alternative to the other mounts in regards to getting fast from A to B ~99% of the time. The free flight only beats out the other mounts if you want to reach the top of the Durmand Priory or something but these places are irrelevant when it comes to content progression.

[Knighthonor.4061]

It need to be faster. Climb faster or fly faster. That could be a trade off for all these annoying mechanics. Right now Griffin is far superior in most areas.

[LadyMuse.1875]

> @"otto.5684" said:

> Everything that it does other mounts can do it better. It is a novelty item with major grind. And ya, it is anything but smooth.

 

I have to agree with this sentiment. I get more use out of my springer, and the skyscale is significantly slower than even a skimmer on land (and that's slow). Anytime I've tried to use it to get to higher places whether it be through climbing and a combination of dismounting, bond of vigor etc I STILL wind up on my griffon because it's faster. I am very disappointed in this mount. I did the grind but the mount really doesn't live up to the amount of grind you have to do to get it.

[Daishi.6027]

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > @"Daishi.6027" said:

> > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > > @"Daishi.6027" said:

> > > > I just want to chime in on something I noticed and is a bit ridiculous and makes the mount feel over all clunky.

> > > >

> > > > Mid air mount is already pretty bad, it doesn't raise fast enough to negate a lot of the downward motion unless you are dodging upwards, but it's kind of pointless because of how much you are almost required to fall reduces the canopy. But often if you are shot out of a thermal tube, go glide up a leyline, or jumping off griffen after rising, into skyscale while already pretty high there is a massive red bar forcing you to drop altitude.

> > > >

> > > > It's bad enough that you are innately forced to drop while transitioning, but the fact it can sometimes impose a red bar as well is even worse.

> > > >

> > > > A-net just flat out remove this, it's clunky and feels pretty bad to use at best, and makes it flat out inferior to griffin when mounting mid air at worst.

> > > >

> > > > **If I mount mid air, that is where the bottom of the canopy should START, and we should come out hovering in mid air.**

> > >

> > > They should only do this if it’s your first time mounting the skyscale since leaving the ground. What I mean by this is that otherwise there would be the potential to keep using the dismount skill to reset the canopy and flight meter.

> >

> > If it reallly breaks something; fine.

> >

> > But honestly at a 30 second cooldown, I don’t see to much of an issue when A-net invisible walls anything you really shouldn’t access anyways.

>

> It's not just about placing invisible walls around areas that players shouldn't access which something Anet hasn't been completely successful at anyway. What several people on the forums seemingly want is a mount with true flight. In my opinion, it's one of the worst things that you could add to this game.

>

> One suggestion that I would make is to give the mount more evasion frames. It appears to be the worst as dodging stuff.

>

> It's okay that you think it's fine that it would break something because you'd get something that you want in exchange but it's not the best thing for the game to follow that approach.

 

I agree that true flight shouldn’t be added. I’m 100% on board with that. But I don’t understand your stance in terms of limiting “mid air mounts resetting the canopy”. Which to be clear I would be fine with, as a compromise; only being able to do it once would still be better and less clunky than what we have now.

 

But In terms of re-mounting mid air every 30 seconds with bond of faith, while maintaining hover and resetting the canopy, this is only effective as “true flight” of you’re already significantly high up, and is still less “true flight”, and inferior to anything you can do with a griffin, which will go further much faster and lose less altitude by the time your reach your destination. (if going in a strait line not waiting for cooldown.) And both at low altitude in would accomplish nothing hitting the ground well before the 30 second mark.

 

Which is why I mentioned breaking things because of the guy who I’ll inevitably fly to canopy limit, wait 30 seconds, remount, rinse and repeat until you hit the sky box.... which honestly isn’t that hard to do with the mounts we have already, depending on the map. Either way I hesitate to call that true flying, and more climbing a staircase where you have to wait 30 second each step.

[Ayrilana.1396]

> @"Tails.9372" said:

> > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > @"Tails.9372" said:

> > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > > It's okay that you think it's fine that it would break something

> > >

> > > Except there's nothing left to break here. Everything worth protecting already restricts mount usage and everything else gets either already steamrolled by the other mounts or was never supposed to be a challenge in the first place.

> >

> > No, not really. All of the other mounts have limitations as well.

>

> And so has the skyscale: even with free flight you still wouldn't be able to use it for diving, to search areas filled with long ranged attack spam and its speed is to limited to be an effective alternative to the other mounts in regards to getting fast from A to B ~99% of the time. The free flight only beats out the other mounts if you want to reach the top of the Durmand Priory or something but these places are irrelevant when it comes to content progression.

 

Free flight would eliminate the need to even use the other mounts. It'll let you bypass pretty much all obstacles whereas other mounts have limitations when it comes to those. Your presence in the game world/map becomes even further removed as you're essentially in the air for the majority of the time. Plus with free flight on the skyscale, it would just be used to gain height for the griffon if you need speed.

 

Anet has their reasons why they didn't give it true flight. It's incredibly unlikely that they're going to re-do the mechanics of the class because a percentage of the players want to fly around unrestricted. For overhaul suggestions, wouldn't it be better to suggest things that could _likely_ be implemented?

[Tails.9372]

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> Free flight would eliminate the need to even use the other mounts. It'll let you bypass pretty much all obstacles whereas other mounts have limitations when it comes to those. Your presence in the game world/map becomes even further removed as you're essentially in the air for the majority of the time. Plus with free flight on the skyscale, it would just be used to gain height for the griffon if you need speed.

 

You are so focused on "what it could do" that you're completely ignoring "what people would do" with it. It doesn't matter if it removed the "need" to use the other mounts if people are still going to use them regardless simply because they are more efficient for the task at hand the vast majority of the time.

 

And sure, you could use it to gain height for the griffon in order to circle around Queensdale or something which is a bad thing because? You do realise that every major event has usually a waypoint nearby anyway?

 

There are only two major uses for unlimited flight on a slow moving mount like the skyscale:

 

- serching an area for collectables which still has you interact with the enviroment and might lead some people to actually search for the items in question instead of using an online guide

 

- sightseeing

 

everything else is more efficiently done by the other mounts. The story would be different if people were asking for level 2 griffon speed on top of free flight or free flight for instanced content but no one is doing that. I really don't see the looming apocalypse you are predicting here.

 

 

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> Anet has their reasons why they didn't give it true flight.

 

Yes, it pretty much boils down to "free flight, what fun is that?". Which is just a terrible reasoning given how subjective the term "fun" is.

 

 

[Ayrilana.1396]

> @"Tails.9372" said:

> > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > Free flight would eliminate the need to even use the other mounts. It'll let you bypass pretty much all obstacles whereas other mounts have limitations when it comes to those. Your presence in the game world/map becomes even further removed as you're essentially in the air for the majority of the time. Plus with free flight on the skyscale, it would just be used to gain height for the griffon if you need speed.

>

> You are so focused on "what it could do" that you're completely ignoring "what people would do" with it. It doesn't matter if it removed the "need" to use the other mounts if people are still going to use them regardless simply because they are more efficient for the task at hand the vast majority of the time.

 

It's pretty obvious what people would do with it which is what my concerns are and why I am against it. Also... it's **not** just about replacing other mounts so don't focus on that as if it's the only thing that I'm saying.

 

> And sure, you could use it to gain height for the griffon in order to circle around Queensdale or something which is a bad thing because? You do realise that every major event has usually a waypoint nearby anyway?

 

Because you can easily bypass content. If you had played on the mount doing map completing, you'd see how easily it is to bypass things with the restrictions. It'd be so much easier without them. It'll ruin any sense of exploration in the maps and make the mobs pointless.

 

Also, newer maps have less waypoints and events are often not near them.

 

> There are only two major uses for unlimited flight on a slow moving mount like the skyscale:

>

> - serching an area for collectables which still has you interact with the enviroment and might lead some people to actually search for the items in question instead of using an online guide

>

> - sightseeing

>

> everything else is more efficiently done by the other mounts. The story would be different if people were asking for level 2 griffon speed on top of free flight or free flight for instanced content but no one is doing that. I really don't see the looming apocalypse you are predicting here.

 

As I've said several times, it'll allow you to easily bypass so many things you would not otherwise have been able to. Using griffon requires you to have height which isn't always easy to achieve. Springer requires easy access to ledges if you want to scale something high.

 

>

> > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > Anet has their reasons why they didn't give it true flight.

>

> Yes, it pretty much boils down to "free flight, what fun is that?". Which is just a terrible reasoning given how subjective the term "fun" is.

>

No. That's you putting words into their mouths.

 

Anyway, there's a 99.99% chance that true flight will not be added to skyscale so there's really no point in continuing to argue with you about it. It just distracts from the other suggestions that people have which actually have a realistic chance of being added to the game.

 

EDIT: Since I'm done with this discussion, I created a [poll](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/77888/should-skyscale-have-unrestricted-flight) about whether people think there should be unrestricted flight or not. Let's see what everyone else has to say about it.

 

 

[Tails.9372]

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> It's pretty obvious what people would do with it which is what my concerns are and why I am against it. Also... it's **not** just about replacing other mounts so don't focus on that as if it's the only thing that I'm saying.

 

Yes, you also said you can use it to bypass obstacles which are completely irrelevant to anything that matters.

 

 

 

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> If you had played on the mount doing map completing, you'd see how easily it is to bypass things with the restrictions. It'd be so much easier without them. It'll ruin any sense of exploration in the maps and make the mobs pointless.

 

Sure, if unlocking the gray area on the map is all you care about and even then there's always a point in using something more efficient, like what is this? It's as if you are just in denial about this fact so you can bring up this nonsensical "it makes the other mobs pointless" argument. Going by your logic: the springer makes the raptor pointless because you can use it to get pretty much everywhere and speed is apparently not a factor here. But events and achievements don't work like that. Like it or not but you're not getting full map completion by simply circling around the map. Also, if it ruins your sense of exploration then don't use it. Simple as that. Whats next? Do you also want A-Net to go after online guides cause they're a lot worse in this regard.

 

 

 

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> As I've said several times, it'll allow you to easily bypass so many things you would not otherwise have been able to.

 

Mounts in a nutshell.

 

 

 

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> Using griffon requires you to have height which isn't always easy to achieve. Springer requires easy access to ledges if you want to scale something high.

 

Which it is for everything that matters, you only have problems if you want to visit places of no significance like the one I previously mentioned. I did 100% map completion and I can't think of a single vista that hasn't been turned into a complete joke by griffon + springer.

 

 

 

 

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> No. That's you putting words into their mouths.

 

You wish but that's the reasoning they used to wave away this issue during their last devstream.

 

 

 

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> It just distracts from the other suggestions that people have which actually have a realistic chance of being added to the game.

 

None of this has a realistic chance of being added into the game because people don't understand what the skyscale is supposed to be and I don't blame them as the visuals are nothing but false advertisement here.

[Jables.4659]

There are only 3 uses for the skyscale as far as I'm concerned. First, the intended use which happens only in very rare circumstances. Your Springer can't make a jump, so you fly up, cling to wall, fly up, and then switch to a mount with nice movement. Second, as others have said, its a novelty afk machine. This use can be applied to things like wanting to break combat for waypointing. The third and best use? You can mount the skyscale, fly straight up, use bond of vigor, fly higher, use bond of faith, and then mount the griffon mid air and fly comfortably. No longer are the days of searching for a building or mountain top to have fun flying through a zone to your intended destination. You can also quite easily reach the sky ceiling in any map by continually using bond of vigor/faith and hopping back and forth between the skyscale and griffon to use their respective means of gaining height. I consider that a portion of use three.

[Ashantara.8731]

As I wrote on another thread: **I hope they will either remove exhaustion _or_ change the rules for involuntary descent (even better: remove it completely) _or_ make it ascend/descend faster.** One of the three would already make for a huge improvement.

[UrMom.4205]

The only change i'd like to see honestly is the wall cling activation adjusted (it's currently way too sensitive for my liking) and the fire attack made into a ground target ability or a enemy targeted ability (when activated the skyscale drops the fire on the target's location)

[Ototo.3214]

Anet addressed both free flight and the red bar midair mounting concern in the last Guild Chat stream. They don't want people to just fly up and over everything without interacting with the map. So no free flight. And the red bar when mounting midair was described as an oversight, albeit a potentially hard to fix one. So hopefully it gets fixed, but I wouldn't count on it happening asap or anything.

[Blacksarevok.8104]

It needs a little more stamina when flying to be more useful. Right now the only reason I ever use it over griffon is for the hover, which while useful, isn't useful *enough* to justify a entire new mount for.

[Drecien.4508]

I dont get why mount skill 1 for Griffin dives and for skyscale it dodges makes you have to setup 2 separate keybinds

[Grim West.3194]

Skyscale just isn't fun, or useful. All of the other mounts are fun, even if they may not be that useful.

[Ashantara.8731]

> @"Drecien.4508" said:

> I dont get why mount skill 1 for Griffin dives and for skyscale it dodges makes you have to setup 2 separate keybinds

 

Indeed! Been contemplating the same thing for days. So illogical.

[Tails.9372]

> @"Ashantara.8731" said:

> > @"Drecien.4508" said:

> > I dont get why mount skill 1 for Griffin dives and for skyscale it dodges makes you have to setup 2 separate keybinds

>

> Indeed! Been contemplating the same thing for days. So illogical.

 

I have a similar issue with Weapon sets. I'd love to see mount / weapon set specific key bindings but I doubt that they're going to implement something like that.

[Ashantara.8731]

> @"Tails.9372" said:

> > @"Ashantara.8731" said:

> > > @"Drecien.4508" said:

> > > I dont get why mount skill 1 for Griffin dives and for skyscale it dodges makes you have to setup 2 separate keybinds

> >

> > Indeed! Been contemplating the same thing for days. So illogical.

>

> I have a similar issue with Weapon sets. I'd love to see mount / weapon set specific key bindings but I doubt that they're going to implement something like that.

 

??? You might have misunderstood. The issue mentioned here is that one and the same skill (mount skill 2) can be executed with the Dodge key on one mount (Griffon), but not on the other (Skyscale), for which you require a separate keybind (i.e., for the latter).