kasoki.5180 Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 Pure healer build was previously used. It was never meta, but it was used several balance patches ago before firebrand's quickness uptime got buffed. You could see those players around quite often and no, they weren't kicked out of the group. You could usually recognise them by using Signet of Courage very often or by using Merciful Intervention, Signet of Mercy or something in that flavour. Build was mostly played by people who enjoyed guardian healer, not by people who wanted to play meta builds. But it did exist during Chrono+Druid fractal meta, and it was used by people who wanted to play alternative to druid mostly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melandru.3876 Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 everyone asks for fb healer because they are clueless (they copy what someone else once asked) power quickbrand is the superior choice over healbrand power quickbrand is essentially a 4th dps (2 pdps+bs) that you bring, while still having the classic fb utilities (if needed) divineren has laughable dmg, better to make that the healer as kalla elite (soulcleave) scale crazy good with healing power. 657 heal per attack????? why yes pls i mean... you give up so much offense by going healbrand compared to quickbrand. quickbrand has good burst, which is crucial for fractals/phases and good sustained dps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 > @"melandru.3876" said: > everyone asks for fb healer because they are clueless (they copy what someone else once asked) > > power quickbrand is the superior choice over healbrand > > power quickbrand is essentially a 4th dps (2 pdps+bs) that you bring, while still having the classic fb utilities (if needed) > > divineren has laughable dmg, better to make that the healer as kalla elite (soulcleave) scale crazy good with healing power. 657 heal per attack????? why yes pls what about the time when Kalla elite is not available? Do you have some magic which allows you to channel Kalla the entire time? Please share. > @"melandru.3876" said: > i mean... you give up so much offense by going healbrand compared to quickbrand. > quickbrand has good burst, which is crucial for fractals/phases and good sustained dps I mean... you give up so much utility by going heal renegade compared to support renegade. Support Renegeade has access to boon removal, stability, a weaker Kalla and great cc for all those times where you want a smooth run. See what I did there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ButcherofMalakir.4067 Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > @"melandru.3876" said: > > everyone asks for fb healer because they are clueless (they copy what someone else once asked) > > > > power quickbrand is the superior choice over healbrand > > > > power quickbrand is essentially a 4th dps (2 pdps+bs) that you bring, while still having the classic fb utilities (if needed) > > > > divineren has laughable dmg, better to make that the healer as kalla elite (soulcleave) scale crazy good with healing power. 657 heal per attack????? why yes pls > > what about the time when Kalla elite is not available? Do you have some magic which allows you to channel Kalla the entire time? Please share. > > > @"melandru.3876" said: > > i mean... you give up so much offense by going healbrand compared to quickbrand. > > quickbrand has good burst, which is crucial for fractals/phases and good sustained dps > > I mean... you give up so much utility by going heal renegade compared to support renegade. > Support Renegeade has access to boon removal, stability, a weaker Kalla and great cc for all those times where you want a smooth run. > > See what I did there? If you play heal renegade then you can use kalla heal before swaping for heals. Also ventari heals are not that bad either. And warrior can boonstrip like it used to do before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > @"melandru.3876" said: > > > everyone asks for fb healer because they are clueless (they copy what someone else once asked) > > > > > > power quickbrand is the superior choice over healbrand > > > > > > power quickbrand is essentially a 4th dps (2 pdps+bs) that you bring, while still having the classic fb utilities (if needed) > > > > > > divineren has laughable dmg, better to make that the healer as kalla elite (soulcleave) scale crazy good with healing power. 657 heal per attack????? why yes pls > > > > what about the time when Kalla elite is not available? Do you have some magic which allows you to channel Kalla the entire time? Please share. > > > > > @"melandru.3876" said: > > > i mean... you give up so much offense by going healbrand compared to quickbrand. > > > quickbrand has good burst, which is crucial for fractals/phases and good sustained dps > > > > I mean... you give up so much utility by going heal renegade compared to support renegade. > > Support Renegeade has access to boon removal, stability, a weaker Kalla and great cc for all those times where you want a smooth run. > > > > See what I did there? > > If you play heal renegade then you can use kalla heal before swaping for heals. Also ventari heals are not that bad either. And warrior can boonstrip like it used to do before. If you are running ventari you are not running: - dwarv for stability - mallyx for boon removal If you are not running ventari, you have gaps in your healing coverage. As mentioned earlier, Healfirebrand gives up damage for more utility (and only damage). Heal renegade gives up utility for healing. If warrior boonstrips, he does way less damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ButcherofMalakir.4067 Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said: > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > @"melandru.3876" said: > > > > everyone asks for fb healer because they are clueless (they copy what someone else once asked) > > > > > > > > power quickbrand is the superior choice over healbrand > > > > > > > > power quickbrand is essentially a 4th dps (2 pdps+bs) that you bring, while still having the classic fb utilities (if needed) > > > > > > > > divineren has laughable dmg, better to make that the healer as kalla elite (soulcleave) scale crazy good with healing power. 657 heal per attack????? why yes pls > > > > > > what about the time when Kalla elite is not available? Do you have some magic which allows you to channel Kalla the entire time? Please share. > > > > > > > @"melandru.3876" said: > > > > i mean... you give up so much offense by going healbrand compared to quickbrand. > > > > quickbrand has good burst, which is crucial for fractals/phases and good sustained dps > > > > > > I mean... you give up so much utility by going heal renegade compared to support renegade. > > > Support Renegeade has access to boon removal, stability, a weaker Kalla and great cc for all those times where you want a smooth run. > > > > > > See what I did there? > > > > If you play heal renegade then you can use kalla heal before swaping for heals. Also ventari heals are not that bad either. And warrior can boonstrip like it used to do before. > > If you are running ventari you are not running: > - dwarv for stability > - mallyx for boon removal > > If you are not running ventari, you have gaps in your healing coverage. > > As mentioned earlier, Healfirebrand gives up damage for more utility (and only damage). Heal renegade gives up utility for healing. > > If warrior boonstrips, he does way less damage. And as I said earlier boon removal can be done by warrior. It depends. With quickbrand burst ut might be higer or lower overall damage. And stability can be provides by quickbrand. I know for a fact that on some bossss in fastest groups warrior dont have time to swap from maces. Not much damage lost there then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said: > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > @"melandru.3876" said: > > > > > everyone asks for fb healer because they are clueless (they copy what someone else once asked) > > > > > > > > > > power quickbrand is the superior choice over healbrand > > > > > > > > > > power quickbrand is essentially a 4th dps (2 pdps+bs) that you bring, while still having the classic fb utilities (if needed) > > > > > > > > > > divineren has laughable dmg, better to make that the healer as kalla elite (soulcleave) scale crazy good with healing power. 657 heal per attack????? why yes pls > > > > > > > > what about the time when Kalla elite is not available? Do you have some magic which allows you to channel Kalla the entire time? Please share. > > > > > > > > > @"melandru.3876" said: > > > > > i mean... you give up so much offense by going healbrand compared to quickbrand. > > > > > quickbrand has good burst, which is crucial for fractals/phases and good sustained dps > > > > > > > > I mean... you give up so much utility by going heal renegade compared to support renegade. > > > > Support Renegeade has access to boon removal, stability, a weaker Kalla and great cc for all those times where you want a smooth run. > > > > > > > > See what I did there? > > > > > > If you play heal renegade then you can use kalla heal before swaping for heals. Also ventari heals are not that bad either. And warrior can boonstrip like it used to do before. > > > > If you are running ventari you are not running: > > - dwarv for stability > > - mallyx for boon removal > > > > If you are not running ventari, you have gaps in your healing coverage. > > > > As mentioned earlier, Healfirebrand gives up damage for more utility (and only damage). Heal renegade gives up utility for healing. > > > > If warrior boonstrips, he does way less damage. > > And as I said earlier boon removal can be done by warrior. It depends. With quickbrand burst ut might be higer or lower overall damage. Yes, and Spellbreaker is way behind Berskerer in damage. Easy 5-10k, more if he has to actively remove boons. > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said: > And stability can be provides by quickbrand. Not in the same amount as Heal Firebrand and certainly not in the same amount as healfirebrand and support renegade. Absolutely not when providing the damage people are so fond of. > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said: > I know for a fact that on some bossss in fastest groups warrior dont have time to swap from maces. Not much damage lost there then Because they use consumables for breakbars and run without healers which reduces the amount of boons which need removal avoiding having to swap to maces. This is not about no healer compositions. This is about healer compositions and which is most convenient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melandru.3876 Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said: > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > @"melandru.3876" said: > > > > everyone asks for fb healer because they are clueless (they copy what someone else once asked) > > > > > > > > power quickbrand is the superior choice over healbrand > > > > > > > > power quickbrand is essentially a 4th dps (2 pdps+bs) that you bring, while still having the classic fb utilities (if needed) > > > > > > > > divineren has laughable dmg, better to make that the healer as kalla elite (soulcleave) scale crazy good with healing power. 657 heal per attack????? why yes pls > > > > > > what about the time when Kalla elite is not available? Do you have some magic which allows you to channel Kalla the entire time? Please share. > > > > > > > @"melandru.3876" said: > > > > i mean... you give up so much offense by going healbrand compared to quickbrand. > > > > quickbrand has good burst, which is crucial for fractals/phases and good sustained dps > > > > > > I mean... you give up so much utility by going heal renegade compared to support renegade. > > > Support Renegeade has access to boon removal, stability, a weaker Kalla and great cc for all those times where you want a smooth run. > > > > > > See what I did there? > > > > If you play heal renegade then you can use kalla heal before swaping for heals. Also ventari heals are not that bad either. And warrior can boonstrip like it used to do before. > > If you are running ventari you are not running: > - dwarv for stability > - mallyx for boon removal > > If you are not running ventari, you have gaps in your healing coverage. > > As mentioned earlier, Healfirebrand gives up damage for more utility (and only damage). Heal renegade gives up utility for healing. > > If warrior boonstrips, he does way less damage. warrior can boonstrip without losing damage tho lol put a superior sigil of absorbtion on a mace, and there you go you can now boonstrip as core/zerker war you give up literally nothing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 > @"melandru.3876" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said: > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > @"melandru.3876" said: > > > > > everyone asks for fb healer because they are clueless (they copy what someone else once asked) > > > > > > > > > > power quickbrand is the superior choice over healbrand > > > > > > > > > > power quickbrand is essentially a 4th dps (2 pdps+bs) that you bring, while still having the classic fb utilities (if needed) > > > > > > > > > > divineren has laughable dmg, better to make that the healer as kalla elite (soulcleave) scale crazy good with healing power. 657 heal per attack????? why yes pls > > > > > > > > what about the time when Kalla elite is not available? Do you have some magic which allows you to channel Kalla the entire time? Please share. > > > > > > > > > @"melandru.3876" said: > > > > > i mean... you give up so much offense by going healbrand compared to quickbrand. > > > > > quickbrand has good burst, which is crucial for fractals/phases and good sustained dps > > > > > > > > I mean... you give up so much utility by going heal renegade compared to support renegade. > > > > Support Renegeade has access to boon removal, stability, a weaker Kalla and great cc for all those times where you want a smooth run. > > > > > > > > See what I did there? > > > > > > If you play heal renegade then you can use kalla heal before swaping for heals. Also ventari heals are not that bad either. And warrior can boonstrip like it used to do before. > > > > If you are running ventari you are not running: > > - dwarv for stability > > - mallyx for boon removal > > > > If you are not running ventari, you have gaps in your healing coverage. > > > > As mentioned earlier, Healfirebrand gives up damage for more utility (and only damage). Heal renegade gives up utility for healing. > > > > If warrior boonstrips, he does way less damage. > > warrior can boonstrip without losing damage tho lol > > put a superior sigil of absorbtion on a mace, and there you go you can now boonstrip as core/zerker war > you give up literally nothing Why would I ever use mace on my Berserker warrior? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melandru.3876 Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > @"melandru.3876" said: > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said: > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > @"melandru.3876" said: > > > > > > everyone asks for fb healer because they are clueless (they copy what someone else once asked) > > > > > > > > > > > > power quickbrand is the superior choice over healbrand > > > > > > > > > > > > power quickbrand is essentially a 4th dps (2 pdps+bs) that you bring, while still having the classic fb utilities (if needed) > > > > > > > > > > > > divineren has laughable dmg, better to make that the healer as kalla elite (soulcleave) scale crazy good with healing power. 657 heal per attack????? why yes pls > > > > > > > > > > what about the time when Kalla elite is not available? Do you have some magic which allows you to channel Kalla the entire time? Please share. > > > > > > > > > > > @"melandru.3876" said: > > > > > > i mean... you give up so much offense by going healbrand compared to quickbrand. > > > > > > quickbrand has good burst, which is crucial for fractals/phases and good sustained dps > > > > > > > > > > I mean... you give up so much utility by going heal renegade compared to support renegade. > > > > > Support Renegeade has access to boon removal, stability, a weaker Kalla and great cc for all those times where you want a smooth run. > > > > > > > > > > See what I did there? > > > > > > > > If you play heal renegade then you can use kalla heal before swaping for heals. Also ventari heals are not that bad either. And warrior can boonstrip like it used to do before. > > > > > > If you are running ventari you are not running: > > > - dwarv for stability > > > - mallyx for boon removal > > > > > > If you are not running ventari, you have gaps in your healing coverage. > > > > > > As mentioned earlier, Healfirebrand gives up damage for more utility (and only damage). Heal renegade gives up utility for healing. > > > > > > If warrior boonstrips, he does way less damage. > > > > warrior can boonstrip without losing damage tho lol > > > > put a superior sigil of absorbtion on a mace, and there you go you can now boonstrip as core/zerker war > > you give up literally nothing > > Why would I ever use mace on my Berserker warrior? since you only use it at start (when no pain no gain triggers) and then camp axe like every other capable zerker? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 > @"melandru.3876" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > @"melandru.3876" said: > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said: > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > @"melandru.3876" said: > > > > > > > everyone asks for fb healer because they are clueless (they copy what someone else once asked) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > power quickbrand is the superior choice over healbrand > > > > > > > > > > > > > > power quickbrand is essentially a 4th dps (2 pdps+bs) that you bring, while still having the classic fb utilities (if needed) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > divineren has laughable dmg, better to make that the healer as kalla elite (soulcleave) scale crazy good with healing power. 657 heal per attack????? why yes pls > > > > > > > > > > > > what about the time when Kalla elite is not available? Do you have some magic which allows you to channel Kalla the entire time? Please share. > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"melandru.3876" said: > > > > > > > i mean... you give up so much offense by going healbrand compared to quickbrand. > > > > > > > quickbrand has good burst, which is crucial for fractals/phases and good sustained dps > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean... you give up so much utility by going heal renegade compared to support renegade. > > > > > > Support Renegeade has access to boon removal, stability, a weaker Kalla and great cc for all those times where you want a smooth run. > > > > > > > > > > > > See what I did there? > > > > > > > > > > If you play heal renegade then you can use kalla heal before swaping for heals. Also ventari heals are not that bad either. And warrior can boonstrip like it used to do before. > > > > > > > > If you are running ventari you are not running: > > > > - dwarv for stability > > > > - mallyx for boon removal > > > > > > > > If you are not running ventari, you have gaps in your healing coverage. > > > > > > > > As mentioned earlier, Healfirebrand gives up damage for more utility (and only damage). Heal renegade gives up utility for healing. > > > > > > > > If warrior boonstrips, he does way less damage. > > > > > > warrior can boonstrip without losing damage tho lol > > > > > > put a superior sigil of absorbtion on a mace, and there you go you can now boonstrip as core/zerker war > > > you give up literally nothing > > > > Why would I ever use mace on my Berserker warrior? > > since you only use it at start (when no pain no gain triggers) and then camp axe like every other capable zerker? No Pain, No gain triggers every 20 seconds. If I'm phasing things faster than 20 seconds, why am I bringing a healer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melandru.3876 Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > @"melandru.3876" said: > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > @"melandru.3876" said: > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said: > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > @"melandru.3876" said: > > > > > > > > everyone asks for fb healer because they are clueless (they copy what someone else once asked) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > power quickbrand is the superior choice over healbrand > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > power quickbrand is essentially a 4th dps (2 pdps+bs) that you bring, while still having the classic fb utilities (if needed) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > divineren has laughable dmg, better to make that the healer as kalla elite (soulcleave) scale crazy good with healing power. 657 heal per attack????? why yes pls > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what about the time when Kalla elite is not available? Do you have some magic which allows you to channel Kalla the entire time? Please share. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"melandru.3876" said: > > > > > > > > i mean... you give up so much offense by going healbrand compared to quickbrand. > > > > > > > > quickbrand has good burst, which is crucial for fractals/phases and good sustained dps > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean... you give up so much utility by going heal renegade compared to support renegade. > > > > > > > Support Renegeade has access to boon removal, stability, a weaker Kalla and great cc for all those times where you want a smooth run. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > See what I did there? > > > > > > > > > > > > If you play heal renegade then you can use kalla heal before swaping for heals. Also ventari heals are not that bad either. And warrior can boonstrip like it used to do before. > > > > > > > > > > If you are running ventari you are not running: > > > > > - dwarv for stability > > > > > - mallyx for boon removal > > > > > > > > > > If you are not running ventari, you have gaps in your healing coverage. > > > > > > > > > > As mentioned earlier, Healfirebrand gives up damage for more utility (and only damage). Heal renegade gives up utility for healing. > > > > > > > > > > If warrior boonstrips, he does way less damage. > > > > > > > > warrior can boonstrip without losing damage tho lol > > > > > > > > put a superior sigil of absorbtion on a mace, and there you go you can now boonstrip as core/zerker war > > > > you give up literally nothing > > > > > > Why would I ever use mace on my Berserker warrior? > > > > since you only use it at start (when no pain no gain triggers) and then camp axe like every other capable zerker? > > No Pain, No gain triggers every 20 seconds. If I'm phasing things faster than 20 seconds, why am I bringing a healer? > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > This is not about no healer compositions. This is about healer compositions and which is most convenient. because i have to follow your rules. is it about healer comps, or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 > @"melandru.3876" said: > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > @"melandru.3876" said: > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > @"melandru.3876" said: > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said: > > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > > @"melandru.3876" said: > > > > > > > > > everyone asks for fb healer because they are clueless (they copy what someone else once asked) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > power quickbrand is the superior choice over healbrand > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > power quickbrand is essentially a 4th dps (2 pdps+bs) that you bring, while still having the classic fb utilities (if needed) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > divineren has laughable dmg, better to make that the healer as kalla elite (soulcleave) scale crazy good with healing power. 657 heal per attack????? why yes pls > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what about the time when Kalla elite is not available? Do you have some magic which allows you to channel Kalla the entire time? Please share. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"melandru.3876" said: > > > > > > > > > i mean... you give up so much offense by going healbrand compared to quickbrand. > > > > > > > > > quickbrand has good burst, which is crucial for fractals/phases and good sustained dps > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean... you give up so much utility by going heal renegade compared to support renegade. > > > > > > > > Support Renegeade has access to boon removal, stability, a weaker Kalla and great cc for all those times where you want a smooth run. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > See what I did there? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you play heal renegade then you can use kalla heal before swaping for heals. Also ventari heals are not that bad either. And warrior can boonstrip like it used to do before. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you are running ventari you are not running: > > > > > > - dwarv for stability > > > > > > - mallyx for boon removal > > > > > > > > > > > > If you are not running ventari, you have gaps in your healing coverage. > > > > > > > > > > > > As mentioned earlier, Healfirebrand gives up damage for more utility (and only damage). Heal renegade gives up utility for healing. > > > > > > > > > > > > If warrior boonstrips, he does way less damage. > > > > > > > > > > warrior can boonstrip without losing damage tho lol > > > > > > > > > > put a superior sigil of absorbtion on a mace, and there you go you can now boonstrip as core/zerker war > > > > > you give up literally nothing > > > > > > > > Why would I ever use mace on my Berserker warrior? > > > > > > since you only use it at start (when no pain no gain triggers) and then camp axe like every other capable zerker? > > > > No Pain, No gain triggers every 20 seconds. If I'm phasing things faster than 20 seconds, why am I bringing a healer? > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > This is not about no healer compositions. This is about healer compositions and which is most convenient. > > > because i have to follow your rules. > > is it about healer comps, or not. Yes, this thread is about healer comps and which is the most friendly for people who rely on a healer. If you want to talk no healer comps, do so in your own thread. The moment you do not phase things in 20 seconds (which is very likely if people rely on a healer) warriors loses a lot of dps if he has to switch to maces mid fight. That is on top of all the other drawbacks to renegade heal versus fb heal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melandru.3876 Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > @"melandru.3876" said: > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > @"melandru.3876" said: > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > @"melandru.3876" said: > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"melandru.3876" said: > > > > > > > > > > everyone asks for fb healer because they are clueless (they copy what someone else once asked) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > power quickbrand is the superior choice over healbrand > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > power quickbrand is essentially a 4th dps (2 pdps+bs) that you bring, while still having the classic fb utilities (if needed) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > divineren has laughable dmg, better to make that the healer as kalla elite (soulcleave) scale crazy good with healing power. 657 heal per attack????? why yes pls > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what about the time when Kalla elite is not available? Do you have some magic which allows you to channel Kalla the entire time? Please share. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"melandru.3876" said: > > > > > > > > > > i mean... you give up so much offense by going healbrand compared to quickbrand. > > > > > > > > > > quickbrand has good burst, which is crucial for fractals/phases and good sustained dps > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean... you give up so much utility by going heal renegade compared to support renegade. > > > > > > > > > Support Renegeade has access to boon removal, stability, a weaker Kalla and great cc for all those times where you want a smooth run. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > See what I did there? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you play heal renegade then you can use kalla heal before swaping for heals. Also ventari heals are not that bad either. And warrior can boonstrip like it used to do before. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you are running ventari you are not running: > > > > > > > - dwarv for stability > > > > > > > - mallyx for boon removal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you are not running ventari, you have gaps in your healing coverage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As mentioned earlier, Healfirebrand gives up damage for more utility (and only damage). Heal renegade gives up utility for healing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If warrior boonstrips, he does way less damage. > > > > > > > > > > > > warrior can boonstrip without losing damage tho lol > > > > > > > > > > > > put a superior sigil of absorbtion on a mace, and there you go you can now boonstrip as core/zerker war > > > > > > you give up literally nothing > > > > > > > > > > Why would I ever use mace on my Berserker warrior? > > > > > > > > since you only use it at start (when no pain no gain triggers) and then camp axe like every other capable zerker? > > > > > > No Pain, No gain triggers every 20 seconds. If I'm phasing things faster than 20 seconds, why am I bringing a healer? > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > This is not about no healer compositions. This is about healer compositions and which is most convenient. > > > > > > because i have to follow your rules. > > > > is it about healer comps, or not. > > Yes, this thread is about healer comps and which is the most friendly for people who rely on a healer. > > If you want to talk no healer comps, do so in your own thread. The moment you do not phase things in 20 seconds (which is very likely if people rely on a healer) warriors loses a lot of dps if he has to switch to maces mid fight. That is on top of all the other drawbacks to renegade heal versus fb heal. so you force the fb into heal whon ormally has dps equal, or above bs to have a diviner renegade who can't even push 10k most of the times glad i'm in charge of my groups then fb alone can stack 1.20 min quickness, there is noit even a reason to play fb just swap dh the group was slowed down because of the shitty dps renegade has (nearly half of warrior) sadly, the alacrity is needed. if not for alacrity, renegade has no spot in such comps good groups know the value of prestacking, and precasting. precasting banners, removing banners taking more useful utilities yes pls if you take 20+ seconds to phase, then something is badly wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 > @"melandru.3876" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > @"melandru.3876" said: > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > @"melandru.3876" said: > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > @"melandru.3876" said: > > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"melandru.3876" said: > > > > > > > > > > > everyone asks for fb healer because they are clueless (they copy what someone else once asked) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > power quickbrand is the superior choice over healbrand > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > power quickbrand is essentially a 4th dps (2 pdps+bs) that you bring, while still having the classic fb utilities (if needed) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > divineren has laughable dmg, better to make that the healer as kalla elite (soulcleave) scale crazy good with healing power. 657 heal per attack????? why yes pls > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what about the time when Kalla elite is not available? Do you have some magic which allows you to channel Kalla the entire time? Please share. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"melandru.3876" said: > > > > > > > > > > > i mean... you give up so much offense by going healbrand compared to quickbrand. > > > > > > > > > > > quickbrand has good burst, which is crucial for fractals/phases and good sustained dps > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean... you give up so much utility by going heal renegade compared to support renegade. > > > > > > > > > > Support Renegeade has access to boon removal, stability, a weaker Kalla and great cc for all those times where you want a smooth run. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > See what I did there? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you play heal renegade then you can use kalla heal before swaping for heals. Also ventari heals are not that bad either. And warrior can boonstrip like it used to do before. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you are running ventari you are not running: > > > > > > > > - dwarv for stability > > > > > > > > - mallyx for boon removal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you are not running ventari, you have gaps in your healing coverage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As mentioned earlier, Healfirebrand gives up damage for more utility (and only damage). Heal renegade gives up utility for healing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If warrior boonstrips, he does way less damage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > warrior can boonstrip without losing damage tho lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > put a superior sigil of absorbtion on a mace, and there you go you can now boonstrip as core/zerker war > > > > > > > you give up literally nothing > > > > > > > > > > > > Why would I ever use mace on my Berserker warrior? > > > > > > > > > > since you only use it at start (when no pain no gain triggers) and then camp axe like every other capable zerker? > > > > > > > > No Pain, No gain triggers every 20 seconds. If I'm phasing things faster than 20 seconds, why am I bringing a healer? > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > > > This is not about no healer compositions. This is about healer compositions and which is most convenient. > > > > > > > > > because i have to follow your rules. > > > > > > is it about healer comps, or not. > > > > Yes, this thread is about healer comps and which is the most friendly for people who rely on a healer. > > > > If you want to talk no healer comps, do so in your own thread. The moment you do not phase things in 20 seconds (which is very likely if people rely on a healer) warriors loses a lot of dps if he has to switch to maces mid fight. That is on top of all the other drawbacks to renegade heal versus fb heal. > > so you force the fb into heal whon ormally has dps equal, or above bs to have a diviner renegade who can't even push 10k most of the times > > glad i'm in charge of my groups then > > Strong comeback there. Did not invalidate anything of what I said as far as utility and groups which require healer goes. You are free to build however you want, most PUG groups go with heal Firebrand or no healer at all. EDIT: > @"melandru.3876" said: > if you take 20+ seconds to phase, then something is badly wrong > You seem to have a very hard concept to understand groups which need healers. No, not every group phases fights in 20 seconds. Those who do and still use a healer are doing it wrong or playing it super safe. I'm not going to base my recommendations on personal preconceptions of how much damage I expect people to do because I know many players will do less. I base my recommendations on which composition offers the best benefit and utility versus damage output. I believe I have explained this well enough so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melandru.3876 Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > @"melandru.3876" said: > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > @"melandru.3876" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > @"melandru.3876" said: > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > @"melandru.3876" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"melandru.3876" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > everyone asks for fb healer because they are clueless (they copy what someone else once asked) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > power quickbrand is the superior choice over healbrand > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > power quickbrand is essentially a 4th dps (2 pdps+bs) that you bring, while still having the classic fb utilities (if needed) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > divineren has laughable dmg, better to make that the healer as kalla elite (soulcleave) scale crazy good with healing power. 657 heal per attack????? why yes pls > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what about the time when Kalla elite is not available? Do you have some magic which allows you to channel Kalla the entire time? Please share. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"melandru.3876" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > i mean... you give up so much offense by going healbrand compared to quickbrand. > > > > > > > > > > > > quickbrand has good burst, which is crucial for fractals/phases and good sustained dps > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean... you give up so much utility by going heal renegade compared to support renegade. > > > > > > > > > > > Support Renegeade has access to boon removal, stability, a weaker Kalla and great cc for all those times where you want a smooth run. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > See what I did there? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you play heal renegade then you can use kalla heal before swaping for heals. Also ventari heals are not that bad either. And warrior can boonstrip like it used to do before. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you are running ventari you are not running: > > > > > > > > > - dwarv for stability > > > > > > > > > - mallyx for boon removal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you are not running ventari, you have gaps in your healing coverage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As mentioned earlier, Healfirebrand gives up damage for more utility (and only damage). Heal renegade gives up utility for healing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If warrior boonstrips, he does way less damage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > warrior can boonstrip without losing damage tho lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > put a superior sigil of absorbtion on a mace, and there you go you can now boonstrip as core/zerker war > > > > > > > > you give up literally nothing > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why would I ever use mace on my Berserker warrior? > > > > > > > > > > > > since you only use it at start (when no pain no gain triggers) and then camp axe like every other capable zerker? > > > > > > > > > > No Pain, No gain triggers every 20 seconds. If I'm phasing things faster than 20 seconds, why am I bringing a healer? > > > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is not about no healer compositions. This is about healer compositions and which is most convenient. > > > > > > > > > > > > because i have to follow your rules. > > > > > > > > is it about healer comps, or not. > > > > > > Yes, this thread is about healer comps and which is the most friendly for people who rely on a healer. > > > > > > If you want to talk no healer comps, do so in your own thread. The moment you do not phase things in 20 seconds (which is very likely if people rely on a healer) warriors loses a lot of dps if he has to switch to maces mid fight. That is on top of all the other drawbacks to renegade heal versus fb heal. > > > > so you force the fb into heal whon ormally has dps equal, or above bs to have a diviner renegade who can't even push 10k most of the times > > > > glad i'm in charge of my groups then > > > > > > Strong comeback there. Did not invalidate anything of what I said as far as utility and groups which require healer goes. You are free to build however you want, most PUG groups go with heal Firebrand or no healer at all. > > EDIT: > > @"melandru.3876" said: > > if you take 20+ seconds to phase, then something is badly wrong > > > > You seem to have a very hard concept to understand groups which need healers. No, not every group phases fights in 20 seconds. Those who do and still use a healer are doing it wrong or playing it super safe. > > I'm not going to base my recommendations on personal preconceptions of how much damage I expect people to do because I know many players will do less. I base my recommendations on which composition offers the best benefit and utility versus damage output. I believe I have explained this well enough so far. i'm not saying you are wrong, because you aren't. i just despise the explanation to justify it stuff like heal scourges (and heal fb's) only exist because some people do not deserve to be in t4/cm's and they get carried hard by it put in weight, or we drop some weight (if you know what i mean) end-game content is hard and not for everyone https://dps.report/rcvZ-20190722-221009_siax 99cm, second boss. pug run. it's clear that this renegade is absolutly clueless. if it wasn't for the renegade (that took 20k+ damage) this group would not need a healer. so we forced a fb into healing, for a diviner renegade who can't even make 5k dps. i think this illustrates my pov nice, and why i prefer fb as dps, rather then heal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asum.4960 Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 > @"melandru.3876" said: > everyone asks for fb healer because they are clueless (they copy what someone else once asked) > > power quickbrand is the superior choice over healbrand > > power quickbrand is essentially a 4th dps (2 pdps+bs) that you bring, while still having the classic fb utilities (if needed) > > divineren has laughable dmg, better to make that the healer as kalla elite (soulcleave) scale crazy good with healing power. 657 heal per attack????? why yes pls > > > > > i mean... you give up so much offense by going healbrand compared to quickbrand. > quickbrand has good burst, which is crucial for fractals/phases and good sustained dps If all you care about is DPS, no matter at what cost, Heal Ren doesn't make sense and you are better of running no heal. If you want proper utility, flexibility superior boon support and healing, heal Ren doesn't make sense either and you are better of running hFB. The content is not that hard that you can't still phase bosses just fine at all the crucial points with a heal comp. The only noticeable difference is that if something should go wrong now and then, because people aren't machines after all, you can just heal past it and keep going having a good time, instead of wasting time and gg'ing and flaming each other over one little mistake which made the house of cards that is the no heal comp fall over. Nobody is contesting the benefits of QB and it's not like I haven't played it myself plenty of times. I've just decided from personal experience that those benefits are generally not worth it for daily clears. > @"melandru.3876" said: > stuff like heal scourges (and heal fb's) only exist because some people do not deserve to be in t4/cm's and they get carried hard by it > > put in weight, or we drop some weight (if you know what i mean) > > end-game content is hard and not for everyone Except it's not, you are making it hard for yourself for a minor speed gain and some twisted sense of pride and elitism. Comps with a heal FB don't even need to waste time on all the "chrono gg's" to reset CD's to upkeep all the boons, have way smoother, less stressful and more pleasant gameplay and still get through CM's+T4 in about 45 minutes, which for me personally is good enough, especially since the runs are always smooth and fun. Even if everybody in the group can pull off no heal fairly easily, hFB is generally just a better time. To say people who run that objectively superior comp (if you consider any metric other than DPS as well), don't "deserve" to play that content is ridiculous. If running no heal is where you derive self-worth from then you do you. But don't tell other's who are doing perfectly fine and having fun with the content what they deserve to play or not, it's a quite pitiful look. > @"melandru.3876" said: > glad i'm in charge of my groups then Thankfully, so am I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhaid Zhem.6508 Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 I don't get why you argue about the uselessness or usefulnesss of a healer (FB here) when you only give CM for example and guild runs for many of you ? I'm okai we can do them, even in Pug, without healer, it's a fact, but; there are ~20 levels with many situations and instabilities, not only CM, and you can"t have too much faith with others players in PUG. It's all good if you all have portals, and vocal, and metabuild with runes of thief rather than scholar, power infuz etc. But the big majority is far from this. Add bleeding fire, the 300% in the back, the -30% HP, Vindicators ... may be group deserve a bit more sustain rather than be requested to go back to t3 because of specified conditions ? But, yeah sometimes it's the player's fault. Even with 250KP I still see groups that can't pre-buff or can't reflect the orb at Astra, or can't even turn back to avoid fear at Ark, or get OS by the mini-golems; or everything is fine, then it gets bad with others levels : Mai-trin they just run in all directions like chickens, ..., no reflect, no pull, no soulcleave''s summit, no sustain..., Chaos, Siren's reef ... Won't be specific about people who can't adapt and just take one skill, like DH the wall ot the stab, Ren the Dwarf legend, or the FB that prefers DPS and let people get dazed, under projectiles, and die, rather than use f2-f3 ... There are too many ways, not to wipe necessarily, but to seriously impact the front, the rotations, ... and lose DPS and time, afterall. We kick people one by one to find the rare pearl ? Having a healer is not a neccessity, it's a security. It's the spirit; I prefer someone to eraze some little mistakes or lack of coordination/understanding (or lack of skill) than to ragequit or kick every groups I meet, or wait 45 minutes in LFG to "save time" once in fractals. Honestly I don't care ; harrier FB, zerk FB, even chrono+FB, chrono+4dps, ... as long as it works currently and I don't wait an eternity to start. + no one forces anyone. This is bullsh*t. There are many different groups on LFG, if you're a FB you can gear harrier or zerk you'll find your happiness. Even Ren, you're harrier /ventari I'm pretty sure your group won't care as your dps is already close to zero, if at least your bring AP (and because there are not many Ren on the market) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Red Arachnid.2493 Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 Does anyone actually have the numbers on how much damage each of these classes do? I've never seen a benchmark for diviner renegade (though my auto tests showed it does 78% of the damage of full berserker), and the last benchmark I saw for power quickbrand was 22.5k DPS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Safandula.8723 Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 > @"melandru.3876" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > @"melandru.3876" said: > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > @"melandru.3876" said: > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > @"melandru.3876" said: > > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"melandru.3876" said: > > > > > > > > > > > everyone asks for fb healer because they are clueless (they copy what someone else once asked) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > power quickbrand is the superior choice over healbrand > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > power quickbrand is essentially a 4th dps (2 pdps+bs) that you bring, while still having the classic fb utilities (if needed) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > divineren has laughable dmg, better to make that the healer as kalla elite (soulcleave) scale crazy good with healing power. 657 heal per attack????? why yes pls > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what about the time when Kalla elite is not available? Do you have some magic which allows you to channel Kalla the entire time? Please share. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"melandru.3876" said: > > > > > > > > > > > i mean... you give up so much offense by going healbrand compared to quickbrand. > > > > > > > > > > > quickbrand has good burst, which is crucial for fractals/phases and good sustained dps > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean... you give up so much utility by going heal renegade compared to support renegade. > > > > > > > > > > Support Renegeade has access to boon removal, stability, a weaker Kalla and great cc for all those times where you want a smooth run. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > See what I did there? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you play heal renegade then you can use kalla heal before swaping for heals. Also ventari heals are not that bad either. And warrior can boonstrip like it used to do before. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you are running ventari you are not running: > > > > > > > > - dwarv for stability > > > > > > > > - mallyx for boon removal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you are not running ventari, you have gaps in your healing coverage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As mentioned earlier, Healfirebrand gives up damage for more utility (and only damage). Heal renegade gives up utility for healing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If warrior boonstrips, he does way less damage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > warrior can boonstrip without losing damage tho lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > put a superior sigil of absorbtion on a mace, and there you go you can now boonstrip as core/zerker war > > > > > > > you give up literally nothing > > > > > > > > > > > > Why would I ever use mace on my Berserker warrior? > > > > > > > > > > since you only use it at start (when no pain no gain triggers) and then camp axe like every other capable zerker? > > > > > > > > No Pain, No gain triggers every 20 seconds. If I'm phasing things faster than 20 seconds, why am I bringing a healer? > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > > > This is not about no healer compositions. This is about healer compositions and which is most convenient. > > > > > > > > > because i have to follow your rules. > > > > > > is it about healer comps, or not. > > > > Yes, this thread is about healer comps and which is the most friendly for people who rely on a healer. > > > > If you want to talk no healer comps, do so in your own thread. The moment you do not phase things in 20 seconds (which is very likely if people rely on a healer) warriors loses a lot of dps if he has to switch to maces mid fight. That is on top of all the other drawbacks to renegade heal versus fb heal. > > so you force the fb into heal whon ormally has dps equal, or above bs to have a diviner renegade who can't even push 10k most of the times > > glad i'm in charge of my groups then > > > fb alone can stack 1.20 min quickness, there is noit even a reason to play fb just swap dh > the group was slowed down because of the kitten dps renegade has (nearly half of warrior) sadly, the alacrity is needed. if not for alacrity, renegade has no spot in such comps > good groups know the value of prestacking, and precasting. > precasting banners, removing banners taking more useful utilities yes pls > if you take 20+ seconds to phase, then something is badly wrong > Sorry man but if u think, alacren has low dps, and it has no place cuz of this it clearly means u have some sort of rotten potato in place of brain. U'v heard word META and got to excited about this, but u got no idea what is going on there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ButcherofMalakir.4067 Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 > @"Safandula.8723" said: > > @"melandru.3876" said: > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > @"melandru.3876" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > @"melandru.3876" said: > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > @"melandru.3876" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"melandru.3876" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > everyone asks for fb healer because they are clueless (they copy what someone else once asked) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > power quickbrand is the superior choice over healbrand > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > power quickbrand is essentially a 4th dps (2 pdps+bs) that you bring, while still having the classic fb utilities (if needed) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > divineren has laughable dmg, better to make that the healer as kalla elite (soulcleave) scale crazy good with healing power. 657 heal per attack????? why yes pls > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what about the time when Kalla elite is not available? Do you have some magic which allows you to channel Kalla the entire time? Please share. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"melandru.3876" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > i mean... you give up so much offense by going healbrand compared to quickbrand. > > > > > > > > > > > > quickbrand has good burst, which is crucial for fractals/phases and good sustained dps > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean... you give up so much utility by going heal renegade compared to support renegade. > > > > > > > > > > > Support Renegeade has access to boon removal, stability, a weaker Kalla and great cc for all those times where you want a smooth run. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > See what I did there? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you play heal renegade then you can use kalla heal before swaping for heals. Also ventari heals are not that bad either. And warrior can boonstrip like it used to do before. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you are running ventari you are not running: > > > > > > > > > - dwarv for stability > > > > > > > > > - mallyx for boon removal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you are not running ventari, you have gaps in your healing coverage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As mentioned earlier, Healfirebrand gives up damage for more utility (and only damage). Heal renegade gives up utility for healing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If warrior boonstrips, he does way less damage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > warrior can boonstrip without losing damage tho lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > put a superior sigil of absorbtion on a mace, and there you go you can now boonstrip as core/zerker war > > > > > > > > you give up literally nothing > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why would I ever use mace on my Berserker warrior? > > > > > > > > > > > > since you only use it at start (when no pain no gain triggers) and then camp axe like every other capable zerker? > > > > > > > > > > No Pain, No gain triggers every 20 seconds. If I'm phasing things faster than 20 seconds, why am I bringing a healer? > > > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is not about no healer compositions. This is about healer compositions and which is most convenient. > > > > > > > > > > > > because i have to follow your rules. > > > > > > > > is it about healer comps, or not. > > > > > > Yes, this thread is about healer comps and which is the most friendly for people who rely on a healer. > > > > > > If you want to talk no healer comps, do so in your own thread. The moment you do not phase things in 20 seconds (which is very likely if people rely on a healer) warriors loses a lot of dps if he has to switch to maces mid fight. That is on top of all the other drawbacks to renegade heal versus fb heal. > > > > so you force the fb into heal whon ormally has dps equal, or above bs to have a diviner renegade who can't even push 10k most of the times > > > > glad i'm in charge of my groups then > > > > > > fb alone can stack 1.20 min quickness, there is noit even a reason to play fb just swap dh > > the group was slowed down because of the kitten dps renegade has (nearly half of warrior) sadly, the alacrity is needed. if not for alacrity, renegade has no spot in such comps > > good groups know the value of prestacking, and precasting. > > precasting banners, removing banners taking more useful utilities yes pls > > if you take 20+ seconds to phase, then something is badly wrong > > > > Sorry man but if u think, alacren has low dps, and it has no place cuz of this it clearly means u have some sort of rotten potato in place of brain. > U'v heard word META and got to excited about this, but u got no idea what is going on there It has low dps. As he said without alacrity noone would use him. Also if the player is bad than the dps is even worse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Safandula.8723 Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said: > > @"Safandula.8723" said: > > > @"melandru.3876" said: > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > @"melandru.3876" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > @"melandru.3876" said: > > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > > @"melandru.3876" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"melandru.3876" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > everyone asks for fb healer because they are clueless (they copy what someone else once asked) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > power quickbrand is the superior choice over healbrand > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > power quickbrand is essentially a 4th dps (2 pdps+bs) that you bring, while still having the classic fb utilities (if needed) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > divineren has laughable dmg, better to make that the healer as kalla elite (soulcleave) scale crazy good with healing power. 657 heal per attack????? why yes pls > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what about the time when Kalla elite is not available? Do you have some magic which allows you to channel Kalla the entire time? Please share. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"melandru.3876" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > i mean... you give up so much offense by going healbrand compared to quickbrand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > quickbrand has good burst, which is crucial for fractals/phases and good sustained dps > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean... you give up so much utility by going heal renegade compared to support renegade. > > > > > > > > > > > > Support Renegeade has access to boon removal, stability, a weaker Kalla and great cc for all those times where you want a smooth run. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > See what I did there? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you play heal renegade then you can use kalla heal before swaping for heals. Also ventari heals are not that bad either. And warrior can boonstrip like it used to do before. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you are running ventari you are not running: > > > > > > > > > > - dwarv for stability > > > > > > > > > > - mallyx for boon removal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you are not running ventari, you have gaps in your healing coverage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As mentioned earlier, Healfirebrand gives up damage for more utility (and only damage). Heal renegade gives up utility for healing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If warrior boonstrips, he does way less damage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > warrior can boonstrip without losing damage tho lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > put a superior sigil of absorbtion on a mace, and there you go you can now boonstrip as core/zerker war > > > > > > > > > you give up literally nothing > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why would I ever use mace on my Berserker warrior? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > since you only use it at start (when no pain no gain triggers) and then camp axe like every other capable zerker? > > > > > > > > > > > > No Pain, No gain triggers every 20 seconds. If I'm phasing things faster than 20 seconds, why am I bringing a healer? > > > > > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is not about no healer compositions. This is about healer compositions and which is most convenient. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because i have to follow your rules. > > > > > > > > > > is it about healer comps, or not. > > > > > > > > Yes, this thread is about healer comps and which is the most friendly for people who rely on a healer. > > > > > > > > If you want to talk no healer comps, do so in your own thread. The moment you do not phase things in 20 seconds (which is very likely if people rely on a healer) warriors loses a lot of dps if he has to switch to maces mid fight. That is on top of all the other drawbacks to renegade heal versus fb heal. > > > > > > so you force the fb into heal whon ormally has dps equal, or above bs to have a diviner renegade who can't even push 10k most of the times > > > > > > glad i'm in charge of my groups then > > > > > > > > > fb alone can stack 1.20 min quickness, there is noit even a reason to play fb just swap dh > > > the group was slowed down because of the kitten dps renegade has (nearly half of warrior) sadly, the alacrity is needed. if not for alacrity, renegade has no spot in such comps > > > good groups know the value of prestacking, and precasting. > > > precasting banners, removing banners taking more useful utilities yes pls > > > if you take 20+ seconds to phase, then something is badly wrong > > > > > > > Sorry man but if u think, alacren has low dps, and it has no place cuz of this it clearly means u have some sort of rotten potato in place of brain. > > U'v heard word META and got to excited about this, but u got no idea what is going on there > > As he said without alacrity noone would use him. Ofc. But if anet suddenly made new spec that can share alacrity I doubt it would replace rene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Red Arachnid.2493 Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 I just checked snowcrows. [Power Quickbrand:](https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/guardian/firebrand/power%20quickness/ "https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/guardian/firebrand/power%20quickness/") 23.2k DPS [Alacrity Renegade:](https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/revenant/renegade/alacrity/ "Alacrity Renegade: ") 23k DPS The numbers for the heal sets isn't listed. Unless there's some drastic new change that hasn't been taken into account, then the two comps are going to be very similar in DPS, no matter which one you take as the healer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melandru.3876 Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said: > I just checked snowcrows. > > [Power Quickbrand:](https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/guardian/firebrand/power%20quickness/ "https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/guardian/firebrand/power%20quickness/") 23.2k DPS > [Alacrity Renegade:](https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/revenant/renegade/alacrity/ "Alacrity Renegade: ") 23k DPS > > The numbers for the heal sets isn't listed. Unless there's some drastic new change that hasn't been taken into account, then the two comps are going to be very similar in DPS, no matter which one you take as the healer. burst > sustained damage. only first few numbers matter. any dps build can have 20k+ dps by just autoattacking if you want to have it that way yet only weaver, power soulbeast and dragonhunter are taken because of their insane first numbers. with burst i mean 70k+ dps big advantage of fb, he can swap dh precast traps, swap fb and have some nice extra damage what you also have to take into account. dh and fb benefit from symbols, in an actual scenario fb will provide symbols for dh and vice versa, which is not reflected in a dummy test the actual fb dps is way higher then 23k also, the bench (snowcrows) uses diviner trinkets (3 of them) which are in fractals not needed due to potion convertion, again increasing fb actual dps not reflected in the benchmark same with runes,scholar runes are a dps increase over thief runes in fractals due to potion convertion, the extra precision from thief runes are not needed. and getting 100% flanking in fractals is nearly impossible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Red Arachnid.2493 Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 If you have blatant bias and are just trying to "win" an argument, we're going to notice. We're not stupid. The following line proves it. > @"melandru.3876" said: > > also, the bench (snowcrows) uses diviner trinkets (3 of them) which are in fractals not needed due to potion convertion, again increasing fb actual dps not reflected in the benchmark The really big detail that you're leaving out here is that this is also true for alacrigade. Standing with no buffs, a full diviner Alacrigade sits at 88.9% boon duration, which earns about one second of spare time between Orders From Above and when alacrity falls out. However, inside of fractals and using potions, you can swap out the entire diviner armor set for berserker armor, getting 79.53% boon duration. This duration is enough so that alacrity ends out just as Orders From Above comes of cooldown. This, among many other factors, is why Alacrigade is also nebulously "way higher than 23k". Now, the idea of "what is true for thee may be true for me" is not some secret doctoral-level philosophy. It's common sense. Any reasonable person should've taken it into consideration that, if the fractal potions let you swap out pieces on Firebrand, it would also let you swap out pieces on Renegade. So, the only conclusion I can come to is that _you're not reasonable._ You're drumming up whatever you can, regardless of any practicality or truth to what you say, because you're goal here isn't to figure out which one is better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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