Deadeye is weak in PVE

[Leo G.4501]

> @Ohoni.6057 said:

> > @Urejt.5648 said:

> > deadeye has much more dps than deadeye with dd. Perma quickness, mark recharge on every small mob, insanity. Even vs enemies with huge hp deadeye deal more dmg thx to 3X5=15% more dps from mark.

> >

> > One could say deadeye has no mobility, but it is no longer needed since mount introduction.

>

> Mobility is still important even after mounts. It's certainly less of a QoL issue, but it's just as much of a combat issue. If you're melee-focused, then you still need to be able to chase things down, and whether melee or ranged you need to be able to get away from unwanted pulls, or at minimum avoid the AoE disco floors that the game has. I'm honestly super curious how a Deadeye would handle the first boss fight in The Departed mission. The ground was almost always half lava, and constant movement was vital. Yes, a DE doesn't have to use Rifle, but he also has one less dodge, weaker dodges, and no Vault to avoid telegraphs with.

Was actually super easy with shadow arts. With stealth on mark, stealth utilities and stall tactics to get to 3+ malice and all the other utilities offered to grant stealth, as well as the elite to reset reveal if necessary, you literally control when npcs act and can strike when its most advantageous.

 

It's all well and good to prefer a specific build and playstyle but you lot are horrendously retarded if you are consciously defaming a build purely on preference.

 

[Doctor Hide.6345]

> @Ohoni.6057 said:

> > @"Doctor Hide.6345" said:

> > > @Ohoni.6057 said:

> > > > @Urejt.5648 said:

> > > > deadeye has much more dps than deadeye with dd. Perma quickness, mark recharge on every small mob, insanity. Even vs enemies with huge hp deadeye deal more dmg thx to 3X5=15% more dps from mark.

> > > >

> > > > One could say deadeye has no mobility, but it is no longer needed since mount introduction.

> > >

> > > Mobility is still important even after mounts. It's certainly less of a QoL issue, but it's just as much of a combat issue. If you're melee-focused, then you still need to be able to chase things down, and whether melee or ranged you need to be able to get away from unwanted pulls, or at minimum avoid the AoE disco floors that the game has. I'm honestly super curious how a Deadeye would handle the first boss fight in The Departed mission. The ground was almost always half lava, and constant movement was vital. Yes, a DE doesn't have to use Rifle, but he also has one less dodge, weaker dodges, and no Vault to avoid telegraphs with.

> >

> > I did that all on my Deadeye using my rifle. It was easy; I kept my distance even with kneel.

>

> You are super leet. So I guess the solution is that we just need Doctor Hide to play the game for everyone using his super leet skills.

 

Your sarcasm aside, I am of average skill; you just have to learn to recognize his attack patterns and act accordingly. All fights in PvE are this way, recognize the bosses/mobs attack pattern and act. The difference with the DE is that instead of being reactive with the bosses; you have to be proactive instead being in the place least likely to get aoes ahead of time.

 

I am not saying DE doesn't need buffs/QOL/bug bixes, but it's not as hard as everyone is making it out to be.

[Purecura.1795]

Jus L2P! Anything works in PvE

[crewthief.8649]

You have weapon swap for a reason. By all means, equip an AoE weapon along with your rifle. Personally, I use S/P as my weapon swap, so AoE is no issue if I really need it. I played through the PoF story (prior to Eater of Souls nerf) and mapped all of the new PoF areas on my DE. It's definitely a new play style, and could probably use some adjustments (upward), but overall, it really isn't that bad.

[DeceiverX.8361]

> @Saraneth.6021 said:

> > @Alatar.7364 said:

> > > @Saraneth.6021 said:

> > > > @Alatar.7364 said:

> > > > It is Weak in PvE due to Rifles Single Target only DMG, unlike Rangers/Warriors Longbow it has no AoE skills.

> > > > So basically you should be swapping to your second Weapon set quite often for cleaves, etc. If you do that, then it's not necessarily Weak, only the Mindset behind playing with Rifle might make you think so.

> > >

> > > Na. Even on single target bosses the rifle falls behind pretty much everything else. Which is shouldn't. The damage is supposed to be on par with melee.

> >

> > I think in that case we can assume the Ranged dmg to be an advantage over Melee Dmg, cause you don't have to reach your target. In such case it would be only fair for Ranged dmg to be lower than Melee as compensation.

>

> Again! The devs said they were breaking their own rule when it comes to DE rifle. The damage was supposed to be on par and the down side to keep it balanced was the loss of mobility. That isn't what we have. We have sub par damage with mobility loss.

>

> If they now want the damage to be more on par with other ranged options, they need to give us back our mobility!

 

DPH and per-skill is comparable or higher in a number of cases. People forget there's a big difference between DPH "burst" and DPS "sustained damage."

 

DPS on MH dagger and staff are overbuffed and have been since they buffed the AA to make the thief competitive with the other busted-OP stuff that came from HoT. Prior to the massive powercreep of the first expansion, the rifle would still be brokenly overpowered.

 

The rifle is not intended to be a DPS weapon. Sniper builds do not deal high damage per second, and the design is explicitly made to not function this way. It is very, very obvious this is not ANet's intent with the concept of the DE and the weapon. Otherwise you have no downside to using the rifle because it's then safer + better at pressuring + better at bursting. The rifle itself =/= DE.

 

People wanted a 1HKO "sniper" concept. This is what the DE offers. Don't like it? Don't play it. Same was said about Daredevil. I still do not have Daredevil unlocked on my main thief for this reason. The rifle is not meta in raids because it by design isn't supposed to be. There will only ever be one or maybe two weapons that are in the meta for raids. It's all just a big math equation in the end, which ignores concept design and PvP-style balance.

 

If you have opinions otherwise, or have other opinions on the matter, you should have voiced your opinion earlier. There was pretty much a new thread popping up every day for a year and a half after HoT asking for rifle "sniper." Some of us advocated against the concept for this exact reason, but it's too late now.

 

At this point, retaliating against "don't like it - don't play it" is futile, anyways. ANet has proven over and over they are unwilling to make the changes the game needs for its general health of professions and build diversity. The game's original vision of allowing people to do what they want has completely changed. If you don't love the meta builds, their mentality is that it sucks to suck. Find something else because they're not going to change it. There's a reason I no longer play the thief or really much of this game at all anymore.

[Ohoni.6057]

> @DeceiverX.8361 said:

>People wanted a 1HKO "sniper" concept. This is what the DE offers.

 

If it offered that, then I don't think there would be much issue with it. The problem is that it doesn't offer that, it offers instead a "one hit. . . meh." sniper concept.

 

 

[TwiceDead.1963]

Deadeye is fine in Open World PvE. Don't know 'bout Raids or Fractals.

 

People claiming Deadeye has no survivability is flatout wrong, and must've dropped like flies on core Thief, while the people who played core in anticipation of Deadeye don't seem to have much problem surviving at all.

 

Seems to me people need to stop getting carried by the spec and do some actual legwork. /shrug

[crewthief.8649]

> @TwiceDead.1963 said:

> Deadeye is fine in Open World PvE. Don't know 'bout Raids or Fractals.

>

> People claiming Deadeye has no survival are flatout wrong, and must've dropped like flies on core Thief, while the people who played core in anticipation of Deadeye don't seem to have much problem surviving at all.

>

> Seems to me people need to stop getting carried by the spec and do some actual legwork. /shrug

 

It seems like a lot of people were expecting Daredevil 2.0 or something. As you stated, it's such a departure from core Thief, and the other elite spec, that it takes some practice and commitment to nail down the play style. I for one, welcome the fact that we have vastly different play styles within our elites.

 

[Ohoni.6057]

> @crewthief.8649 said:

> > @TwiceDead.1963 said:

> > Deadeye is fine in Open World PvE. Don't know 'bout Raids or Fractals.

> >

> > People claiming Deadeye has no survival are flatout wrong, and must've dropped like flies on core Thief, while the people who played core in anticipation of Deadeye don't seem to have much problem surviving at all.

> >

> > Seems to me people need to stop getting carried by the spec and do some actual legwork. /shrug

>

> It seems like a lot of people were expecting Daredevil 2.0 or something. As you stated, it's such a departure from core Thief, and the other elite spec, that it takes some practice and commitment to nail down the play style. I for one, welcome the fact that we have vastly different play styles within our elites.

>

 

I don't think anyone expected Daredevil 2.0, but the issue is that they nerfed core Thief to make the Daredevil, so so be _at least as good_ as the original core Thief, any future Thief elite specs need a little _dash_ of Daredevil. Either that, or they need _enough_ of a boost to make up for the _nerf_ of not being a Daredevil. And that's not what we got. The Deadeye could play completely differently, so long as what it brought to the table is strong enough and useful enough to GW2's core mechanics to make it a fair trade for the Daredevil, and it's not.

 

The problem isn't that the Deadeye is not Daredevil 2.0, the problem is that the Daredevil *was* "Thief 2.0," while the Deadeye is more like "Thief 1.5".

[Jephery.8915]

My problem with Deadeye is that what Thief really needed was a support spec to round out the profession.

 

What Thief got was a ranged dps spec in a game where everyone stacks in melee range for heals, buffs, and mechanics management.

[saerni.2584]

Deadeye can apply buffs to allies in melee range of the marked target.

 

Deadeye is a support/spike DPS class. The Deadeye doesn’t have to sit at 1500 range either. Nothing prevents a ranged character from sitting at 200 range with the rest of a group.

 

Also, nothing requires you to take rifle. There are, however, fights where range is required. Range which the rifle gives us. Future fights may include more ranged options.

[Acheron.4576]

I think that if they incorporated mechanics to other weapons similar to rifle then Deadeye could be a lot more better. Like how the rifle #4 is greatly influenced by malice than any other ability. If the other weapons had something like that it could potentially be more competitive instead of just getting the flat basic damage boost. Maybe tying it into the #3 ability in some way.

[Ellisande.5218]

> @Alatar.7364 said:

> > @Saraneth.6021 said:

> > > @Alatar.7364 said:

> > > It is Weak in PvE due to Rifles Single Target only DMG, unlike Rangers/Warriors Longbow it has no AoE skills.

> > > So basically you should be swapping to your second Weapon set quite often for cleaves, etc. If you do that, then it's not necessarily Weak, only the Mindset behind playing with Rifle might make you think so.

> >

> > Na. Even on single target bosses the rifle falls behind pretty much everything else. Which is shouldn't. The damage is supposed to be on par with melee.

>

> I think in that case we can assume the Ranged dmg to be an advantage over Melee Dmg, cause you don't have to reach your target. In such case it would be only fair for Ranged dmg to be lower than Melee as compensation.

 

Because it is SO hard to get into melee damage. The entire point of the spec is being just as good as melee from ranged with a rifle so that we can do something besides P/P, D/D or some such weapon combo. This purpose is entirely defeated by the shitty damage.

[TwiceDead.1963]

> @Ellisande.5218 said:

> > @Alatar.7364 said:

> > > @Saraneth.6021 said:

> > > > @Alatar.7364 said:

> > > > It is Weak in PvE due to Rifles Single Target only DMG, unlike Rangers/Warriors Longbow it has no AoE skills.

> > > > So basically you should be swapping to your second Weapon set quite often for cleaves, etc. If you do that, then it's not necessarily Weak, only the Mindset behind playing with Rifle might make you think so.

> > >

> > > Na. Even on single target bosses the rifle falls behind pretty much everything else. Which is shouldn't. The damage is supposed to be on par with melee.

> >

> > I think in that case we can assume the Ranged dmg to be an advantage over Melee Dmg, cause you don't have to reach your target. In such case it would be only fair for Ranged dmg to be lower than Melee as compensation.

>

> Because it is SO hard to get into melee damage. The entire point of the spec is being just as good as melee from ranged with a rifle so that we can do something besides P/P, D/D or some such weapon combo. This purpose is entirely defeated by the kitten damage.

 

Honestly, you're just having unrealistic expectations. A ranged weapon will NEVER be as good as a melee-weapon because, like it or not, range is an advantage. Being able to do DPS comparable to melee weapons from 1500 range would be stupidly broken and will never happen. I can already reach 4k auto-attacks with Rifle with BQBK, a 12k character would drop in 3 shots if he got hit. Hell, thieves are killing themselves with rifle due to reflects, that's how much damage the thing does. The only reason the opposition isn't dying is because of all the projectile hate.

 

And yes, by the way. Getting into melee-range can be impossible without pulls, depending on positioning, especially in WvW.

[Doctor Hide.6345]

> @TwiceDead.1963 said:

> > @Ellisande.5218 said:

> > > @Alatar.7364 said:

> > > > @Saraneth.6021 said:

> > > > > @Alatar.7364 said:

> > > > > It is Weak in PvE due to Rifles Single Target only DMG, unlike Rangers/Warriors Longbow it has no AoE skills.

> > > > > So basically you should be swapping to your second Weapon set quite often for cleaves, etc. If you do that, then it's not necessarily Weak, only the Mindset behind playing with Rifle might make you think so.

> > > >

> > > > Na. Even on single target bosses the rifle falls behind pretty much everything else. Which is shouldn't. The damage is supposed to be on par with melee.

> > >

> > > I think in that case we can assume the Ranged dmg to be an advantage over Melee Dmg, cause you don't have to reach your target. In such case it would be only fair for Ranged dmg to be lower than Melee as compensation.

> >

> > Because it is SO hard to get into melee damage. The entire point of the spec is being just as good as melee from ranged with a rifle so that we can do something besides P/P, D/D or some such weapon combo. This purpose is entirely defeated by the kitten damage.

>

> Honestly, you're just having unrealistic expectations. A ranged weapon will NEVER be as good as a melee-weapon because, like it or not, range is an advantage. Being able to do DPS comparable to melee weapons from 1500 range would be stupidly broken and will never happen. I can already reach 4k auto-attacks with Rifle with BQBK, a 12k character would drop in 3 shots if he got hit. Hell, thieves are killing themselves with rifle due to reflects, that's how much damage the thing does. The only reason the opposition isn't dying is because of all the projectile hate.

>

> And yes, by the way. Getting into melee-range can be impossible without pulls, depending on positioning, especially in WvW.

 

It's not unrealistic when it came directly from the devs mouths stating that was their goal for Deadeye. I don't know the PvP scene, nor do I really care for it. I do expect melee level of damage though for PvE.

[Ohoni.6057]

> @TwiceDead.1963 said:

>Honestly, you're just having unrealistic expectations. A ranged weapon will NEVER be as good as a melee-weapon because, like it or not, range is an advantage.

 

I don't know about that. I mean, range does have its own issues, like projectile hate. I think that mobility is so important in this game that a stationary ranged character is in a WORSE position than a mobile melee character. Of course mobile ranged beats mobile melee because they can keep moving away from attacks *while* always being able to drop their own, while melee characters more often have to suspend damage in the name of defense.

 

I think the idea on this might be right, to trade higher damage for immobility, I'm just not sure that their implementation of that concept is the best possible for this game. It doesn't "feel" good, and it certainly doesn't perform well enough to justify the player experience.

 

>And yes, by the way. Getting into melee-range can be impossible without pulls, depending on positioning, especially in WvW.

 

If it's impossible for the enemy to hit you then they usually reset, so that's a moot point.

[Dashiva.6149]

Can only speak for Open World since that's all I play these days, but halfway through PoF i decided to explore DE for my thief with Rifle / SP.

 

It took some adjustment mainly because it is a really different playstyle (and un-learnng my old rotation), but after getting a hang on it I feel it is a really enjoyable build. Main difference I noted was that I needed to have a more proactive approach to encounters. I haven't experienced issues with survivability, and don't feel it underperforms that bad versus Daredevil.

 

I do wonder if it is a perception issue? Deadeye performs well in Core and HoT but in PoF there is an abundance of mobs that are protected against ranged combat in different ways, which might lead to some negative impressions of the class?

[TwiceDead.1963]

> @"Doctor Hide.6345" said:

> It's not unrealistic when it came directly from the devs mouths stating that was their goal for Deadeye. I don't know the PvP scene, nor do I really care for it. I do expect melee level of damage though for PvE.

 

Yes, they said one thing, but they did something completely different instead. Actions speak louder than words. That said, I wouldn't mind the buff for PvE.

 

 

 

> @Ohoni.6057 said:

> I don't know about that. I mean, range does have its own issues, like projectile hate. I think that mobility is so important in this game that a stationary ranged character is in a WORSE position than a mobile melee character. Of course mobile ranged beats mobile melee because they can keep moving away from attacks *while* always being able to drop their own, while melee characters more often have to suspend damage in the name of defense.

>

> I think the idea on this might be right, to trade higher damage for immobility, I'm just not sure that their implementation of that concept is the best possible for this game. It doesn't "feel" good, and it certainly doesn't perform well enough to justify the player experience.

 

A sniper in PvP is just never going to be like a sniper in FPS games, you're not going to be allowed to do the 1500+ range killshots out of the blue, that's the reason they made the malice mechanic to determine how much damage DJ does, to give enemies plenty of time to counter-play a potential one-shot burst. If you were allowed to deliver that burst without challenge from the get-go, you would be stupidly broken, because not only could you do this from stealth, you would also be safely out of harms way. People keep dreaming about a "Headshot Sniper" equivalent in this game, but you're not going to get it. I am not saying this couldn't happen for PvE, I am saying it's not happening in PvP. The amount of projectile hate is a problem, but it's something that affects all classes and needs to be dealt with on it's own.

 

I agree it doesn't feel good, though. Kneel can be rather clunky to use.

 

> If it's impossible for the enemy to hit you then they usually reset, so that's a moot point.

 

No it isn't, because people don't get the luxury of deciding when and where they're going to get jumped... Unless you're a thief, then you do get that luxury. It's one of the few things we've got going for us. In PvE, trash mobs die before they get to reset. Bosses, you have a point.

[Ohoni.6057]

> @TwiceDead.1963 said:

>A sniper in PvP is just never going to be like a sniper in FPS games,

 

We're talking about PvE. All PvP talk is completely irrelevant to the discussion.

 

>No it isn't, because people don't get the luxury of deciding when and where they're going to get jumped... Unless you're a thief, then you do get that luxury. It's one of the few things we've got going for us. In PvE, trash mobs die before they get to reset. Bosses, you have a point.

 

Being able to slowly one-shot trash mobs is kinda fun, for like a few minutes, but there's really not much point to it. Whatever the Deadeye is, it needs to be able to handle the same sorts of mobs everyone else is fighting, and work through them in roughly the same amount of time, maybe a _little_ slower in exchange for some added safety. If it can take 2-3 times as long to work through a standard pack of mobs as just running up and spamming Vault then it's not doing anything useful. Any pack of three trash mobs where a DD can run up and VaultVaultVault and they're dead, a Deadeye should be able to HeadshotHeadshotHeadshot in roughly the same timeframe before any of them could reach him across open terrain. If there was a Vet in there, then the Daredevil's should be partly dead by this point, and in the time it takes for him to finish that Vet off using other attacks, The Deadeye should be able to start damaging him and get him to near-death too. The difference should be that if the enemy does reach the Deadeye, then the Deadeye would become far less effective in finishing that encounter, perhaps having to back off or use far less efficient attacks to chip him down, whereas the Daredevil can mix offense and defense more effectively, and maintain his peak damage consistently, leading to shorter fights against multiple enemies and enemies that can survive an initial burst.

[TwiceDead.1963]

> @Ohoni.6057 said:

> > @TwiceDead.1963 said:

> >A sniper in PvP is just never going to be like a sniper in FPS games,

>

> We're talking about PvE. All PvP talk is completely irrelevant to the discussion.

 

You can't say that when you, yourself, bring up Resets, as that's primarily a PvP term. Obviously Anet isn't going to let players camp a ledge and solo champions by cheesing them, more than they can already be cheesed, and trash mobs are dead before they can reset so that's irrelevant as well. Why would you even bring that up?

 

> >In PvE, trash mobs die before they get to reset. Bosses, you have a point.

>

> Being able to slowly one-shot trash mobs is kinda fun, for like a few minutes, but there's really not much point to it. Whatever the Deadeye is, it needs to be able to handle the same sorts of mobs everyone else is fighting, and work through them in roughly the same amount of time, maybe a _little_ slower in exchange for some added safety. If it can take 2-3 times as long to work through a standard pack of mobs as just running up and spamming Vault then it's not doing anything useful. Any pack of three trash mobs where a DD can run up and VaultVaultVault and they're dead, a Deadeye should be able to HeadshotHeadshotHeadshot in roughly the same timeframe before any of them could reach him across open terrain. If there was a Vet in there, then the Daredevil's should be partly dead by this point, and in the time it takes for him to finish that Vet off using other attacks, The Deadeye should be able to start damaging him and get him to near-death too. The difference should be that if the enemy does reach the Deadeye, then the Deadeye would become far less effective in finishing that encounter, perhaps having to back off or use far less efficient attacks to chip him down, whereas the Daredevil can mix offense and defense more effectively, and maintain his peak damage consistently, leading to shorter fights against multiple enemies and enemies that can survive an initial burst.

 

Rifle needs some love, I've said this in the past and I agree it needs help, but I don't want to buff it to the same ludicrous degrees like some of the suggestions I've seen thrown around on this part of the forums, from the sounds of it you want a cannon that can deal Gun-Flame amounts of damage every auto-attack judging this line:

 

> DD can run up and VaultVaultVault and they're dead, a Deadeye should be able to HeadshotHeadshotHeadshot in roughly the same timeframe before any of them could reach him across open terrain.

 

And that I don't agree with. However I do agree it needs some buffs to make it feel better to play and less clunky, especially kneel. Good? Good. Now, Rifle aside...

 

Deadeye is perfectly capable of dealing with the same mobs everyone else is fighting. Where Daredevil can run into a pile of trash-mobs and _vaultvaultvault_ as you put it, a Deadeye can IS into the same pack and throw around a couple of pistol-whips and achieve the same results, there's going to be a dead pack of mobs at your feet at the end, except you are going to be in better shape than the Daredevil. To stay competitive with Daredevil against boss-mobs, we've got Daggers, to top that off, Deadeye is arguably more survivable than a Daredevil is depending on build due to the steady stream of boons and protection. A Deadeye's DPS isn't that much lower than Daredevil's either, so I think as a traitline, Deadeye is fine. The utilities could use some love though...

[Iason Evan.3806]

The build variety is an illusion. It's too bad really. GW1's PvE was fantastic because you weren't pigeonholed into a single build or some very minor shift in the same build everyone else was running. There's no allowance for player creativity with builds here. No diversity of play. It's too bad. The homogenization of GW2 Traits is awful. Doubly so because professional esports died and that was the reason the homogenization happened in the first place.

 

ArenaNet refused to do skill splits and trait splits for WvW/PvP/PvE. Now that WvW and PvP are dead, they refuse to bring back build diversity for PvE. I really don't get it at all.

[Doctor Hide.6345]

> @TwiceDead.1963 said:

> Deadeye is perfectly capable of dealing with the same mobs everyone else is fighting. Where Daredevil can run into a pile of trash-mobs and _vaultvaultvault_ as you put it, a Deadeye can IS into the same pack and throw around a couple of pistol-whips and achieve the same results, there's going to be a dead pack of mobs at your feet at the end, except you are going to be in better shape than the Daredevil. **To stay competitive with Daredevil against boss-mobs, we've got Daggers**, to top that off, Deadeye is arguably more survivable than a Daredevil is depending on build due to the steady stream of boons and protection. A Deadeye's DPS isn't that much lower than Daredevil's either, so I think as a traitline, Deadeye is fine. The utilities could use some love though...

 

I disagree with the bolded part since daggers shouldn't enter into the equation. The rifle should be dealing melee level of damage like daggers at range since that is what the Deadeye was designed for. I know you said you are not opposed to rifle buffs, but the buffs need to be at the level of staff/dagger damage for the rifle to be competitive.

 

At no point should the Deadeye have to switch to any melee weapon to stay competitive when it should be the rifles jobs.

[DeceiverX.8361]

> @"Doctor Hide.6345" said:

> > @TwiceDead.1963 said:

> > Deadeye is perfectly capable of dealing with the same mobs everyone else is fighting. Where Daredevil can run into a pile of trash-mobs and _vaultvaultvault_ as you put it, a Deadeye can IS into the same pack and throw around a couple of pistol-whips and achieve the same results, there's going to be a dead pack of mobs at your feet at the end, except you are going to be in better shape than the Daredevil. **To stay competitive with Daredevil against boss-mobs, we've got Daggers**, to top that off, Deadeye is arguably more survivable than a Daredevil is depending on build due to the steady stream of boons and protection. A Deadeye's DPS isn't that much lower than Daredevil's either, so I think as a traitline, Deadeye is fine. The utilities could use some love though...

>

> I disagree with the bolded part since daggers shouldn't enter into the equation. The rifle should be dealing melee level of damage like daggers at range since that is what the Deadeye was designed for. I know you said you are not opposed to rifle buffs, but the buffs need to be at the level of staff/dagger damage for the rifle to be competitive.

>

> At no point should the Deadeye have to switch to any melee weapon to stay competitive when it should be the rifles jobs.

 

ANet has repeatedly over the years come out and said they do not intend to allow long-ranged weapons to deal similar sustained damage as melee kits on the basis that it's too safe. They probably made a comment about the rifle dealing high damage, which it can and does do, but "damage" is a generic term which could honestly mean anything when it comes to DPS vs DPH.

 

And frankly, this is how it should be.

 

Dagger DPH is lower than rifle's, and is a lot less safe. You can't infinitely kite while dealing damage with a dagger. You can with a rifle. And that's why its sustained damage is lower.

 

You're not holding a HMG. You're playing the "sniper" archetype which on that concept alone is supposed to make one lethal shot and that's the majority of the fight.

 

Might as well be complaining that Reaper isn't a great long-range control caster. That's just not supposed to be what it does.

[Doctor Hide.6345]

> @DeceiverX.8361 said:

> > @"Doctor Hide.6345" said:

> > > @TwiceDead.1963 said:

> > > Deadeye is perfectly capable of dealing with the same mobs everyone else is fighting. Where Daredevil can run into a pile of trash-mobs and _vaultvaultvault_ as you put it, a Deadeye can IS into the same pack and throw around a couple of pistol-whips and achieve the same results, there's going to be a dead pack of mobs at your feet at the end, except you are going to be in better shape than the Daredevil. **To stay competitive with Daredevil against boss-mobs, we've got Daggers**, to top that off, Deadeye is arguably more survivable than a Daredevil is depending on build due to the steady stream of boons and protection. A Deadeye's DPS isn't that much lower than Daredevil's either, so I think as a traitline, Deadeye is fine. The utilities could use some love though...

> >

> > I disagree with the bolded part since daggers shouldn't enter into the equation. The rifle should be dealing melee level of damage like daggers at range since that is what the Deadeye was designed for. I know you said you are not opposed to rifle buffs, but the buffs need to be at the level of staff/dagger damage for the rifle to be competitive.

> >

> > At no point should the Deadeye have to switch to any melee weapon to stay competitive when it should be the rifles jobs.

>

> ANet has repeatedly over the years come out and said they do not intend to allow long-ranged weapons to deal similar sustained damage as melee kits on the basis that it's too safe. They probably made a comment about the rifle dealing high damage, which it can and does do, but "damage" is a generic term which could honestly mean anything when it comes to DPS vs DPH.

>

> And frankly, this is how it should be.

>

> Dagger DPH is lower than rifle's, and is a lot less safe. You can't infinitely kite while dealing damage with a dagger. You can with a rifle. And that's why its sustained damage is lower.

>

> You're not holding a HMG. You're playing the "sniper" archetype which on that concept alone is supposed to make one lethal shot and that's the majority of the fight.

>

> Might as well be complaining that Reaper isn't a great long-range control caster. That's just not supposed to be what it does.

 

I think you are wrong with that assumption on the Deadeye. Like I said, they said they are **breaking their own rules** when it comes to the Deadeye. No, it should not be that way, but that is a discussion for another time. The rifle has the immobile mechanic behind it which allows it to have melee level damage. The only way rifle will ever be taken seriously in a raid or fractal without making your own group is if rifle gets that buff it needs. I am sick of melee only stuff in this game, Many other games have ranged competitors do melee level of damage, and they are taken.

 

I know of the sniper archetype which is why I wouldn't mind 2 round/3 round burst get the unload treatment with ini coming back to help with sustain. Having melee be king of the hill is illogical to me when ranged should be up there as well. If need be, every time there is a q and a with devs I will link the part where they said Deadeye should be doing melee level of damage. I will use the lobbyists tactics of pure annoyance if I have to get something passed.

[Maugetarr.6823]

> @"Doctor Hide.6345" said:

> > @DeceiverX.8361 said:

> > > @"Doctor Hide.6345" said:

> > > > @TwiceDead.1963 said:

> > > > Deadeye is perfectly capable of dealing with the same mobs everyone else is fighting. Where Daredevil can run into a pile of trash-mobs and _vaultvaultvault_ as you put it, a Deadeye can IS into the same pack and throw around a couple of pistol-whips and achieve the same results, there's going to be a dead pack of mobs at your feet at the end, except you are going to be in better shape than the Daredevil. **To stay competitive with Daredevil against boss-mobs, we've got Daggers**, to top that off, Deadeye is arguably more survivable than a Daredevil is depending on build due to the steady stream of boons and protection. A Deadeye's DPS isn't that much lower than Daredevil's either, so I think as a traitline, Deadeye is fine. The utilities could use some love though...

> > >

> > > I disagree with the bolded part since daggers shouldn't enter into the equation. The rifle should be dealing melee level of damage like daggers at range since that is what the Deadeye was designed for. I know you said you are not opposed to rifle buffs, but the buffs need to be at the level of staff/dagger damage for the rifle to be competitive.

> > >

> > > At no point should the Deadeye have to switch to any melee weapon to stay competitive when it should be the rifles jobs.

> >

> > ANet has repeatedly over the years come out and said they do not intend to allow long-ranged weapons to deal similar sustained damage as melee kits on the basis that it's too safe. They probably made a comment about the rifle dealing high damage, which it can and does do, but "damage" is a generic term which could honestly mean anything when it comes to DPS vs DPH.

> >

> > And frankly, this is how it should be.

> >

> > Dagger DPH is lower than rifle's, and is a lot less safe. You can't infinitely kite while dealing damage with a dagger. You can with a rifle. And that's why its sustained damage is lower.

> >

> > You're not holding a HMG. You're playing the "sniper" archetype which on that concept alone is supposed to make one lethal shot and that's the majority of the fight.

> >

> > Might as well be complaining that Reaper isn't a great long-range control caster. That's just not supposed to be what it does.

>

> I think you are wrong with that assumption on the Deadeye. Like I said, they said they are **breaking their own rules** when it comes to the Deadeye. No, it should not be that way, but that is a discussion for another time. The rifle has the immobile mechanic behind it which allows it to have melee level damage. The only way rifle will ever be taken seriously in a raid or fractal without making your own group is if rifle gets that buff it needs. I am sick of melee only stuff in this game, Many other games have ranged competitors do melee level of damage, and they are taken.

>

> I know of the sniper archetype which is why I wouldn't mind 2 round/3 round burst get the unload treatment with ini coming back to help with sustain. Having melee be king of the hill is illogical to me when ranged should be up there as well. If need be, every time there is a q and a with devs I will link the part where they said Deadeye should be doing melee level of damage. I will use the lobbyists tactics of pure annoyance if I have to get something passed.

 

Rifle is sorta close to Dagger in terms of DPS. If they buffed the kneeling auto attack to 0.9 instead of the 0.78-0.8 it's sitting at right now and let the autos pierce 1-2 targets, it would be on par with Dagger without having to do anything else. Double Tap and 3RB still need some work, but at least kneeling would be there in terms of damage, and that boost only puts it at the same multiplier as ranger long range shot at its long range value.