How do you counter Lotus Training Condi Daredevil?

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

This build is SO tedious to fight against. They spend 90% of the fight either spamming dodges with Venoms or they are using Death Blossom over and over and over. How do you guys counter this? all i see is "evade", "evade", "evade" Even with all my condi removal. There is nothing i can do as im locked down and riddled with conditions simply because they are dodging.

 

So, how do YOU guys counter it? Bonus points if you are ranger. If they jump me. Im dead. Nothing i can do

[EremiteAngel.9765]

What class/build are you using?

 

In general, the most effective way is to:

 

1. Dodge their steal if possible

2. Widen the gap as often as you can with your mobility skills

3. Don't stand still and let them evade all over you

4. Bring condi clear (lots of it)

5. Interrupt them as they are about to land with their lotus blossom (there is a small window to hit them)

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

> @EremiteAngel.9765 said:

> What class/build are you using?

>

> In general, the most effective way is to:

>

> 1. Dodge their steal if possible

> 2. Widen the gap as often as you can with your mobility skills

> 3. Don't stand still and let them evade all over you

> 4. Bring condi clear (lots of it)

> 5. Interrupt them as they are about to land with their lotus blossom (there is a small window to hit them)

 

Did mention the "ranger" - Technically, Soul beast.

 

1) Cant dodge something if they have the jump.

2) cant be done when you are instantly riddled with immob, slows and cripples

3) all the dodges and blocks i have, arent enough.

4) I have Bear stance (8) Survival trait (2) Survival on heal (another 2) as well as Entangle(2) and lightening reflexes (2) - without resistance. Its not enough :/

5) Small window. Very small when they MAYBE use that once or 2 during the whole fight. Start with Venom and dodge spamming. Use DB once or twice and then finish spam dodging again

 

Started bringing Dolyak Stance for the Immob and Cripple removal but thats still not enough to keep me alive as its just too much constant application of conditions while they are avoiding all the damage i could potentially do due to them dodge spamming. I have the trait for protection on dodge and 33% less condition damage when i have protection but even that im still taking 3k+ ticks of bleeding alone.

[Snowywonders.1378]

As a druid, I find fighting d/d condi very trivial. What you need to do is just keep moving constantly. It's WvW, lots of open space. Just keep running in circles around them, and have your pet damage them and hit them with key skills when you can. They can't touch you with death blossom when you're constantly moving. Save your big condi clears for their opening combos with steal and venoms. Their secondary weapon is either d/p or SB to run away, or p/d for ranged damage. In the latter case, longbow or staff will easily beat them if they stay at range. Don't play their game, don't stand still.

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

> @Snowywonders.1378 said:

> As a druid, I find fighting d/d condi very trivial. What you need to do is just keep moving constantly. It's WvW, lots of open space. Just keep running in circles around them, and have your pet damage them and hit them with key skills when you can. They can't touch you with death blossom when you're constantly moving. Save your big condi clears for their opening combos with steal and venoms. Their secondary weapon is either d/p or SB to run away, or p/d for ranged damage. In the latter case, longbow or staff will easily beat them if they stay at range. Don't play their game, don't stand still.

 

Im Soulbeast, so no staff for me. Its easier said than done to "dont stay still" but immob was near constant. Thats why i have taken Dolyak Stance in the slim hope that it MIGHT be able to help. They only have to be near you. Not on top to dodge spam and inflict the conditions due to the 300 range they have as well which isnt helping. Again, Death Blossom isnt the problem, as thats just used when they cant do anything else. Its the dodge spamming and getting riddled with conditions that seems rather broken. 300 range. No need to actually target someone. Its the dodge spamming and getting riddled with conditions thats the problem as they evade on top of the conditions :/

[EremiteAngel.9765]

> @ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

> > @EremiteAngel.9765 said:

> > What class/build are you using?

> >

> > In general, the most effective way is to:

> >

> > 1. Dodge their steal if possible

> > 2. Widen the gap as often as you can with your mobility skills

> > 3. Don't stand still and let them evade all over you

> > 4. Bring condi clear (lots of it)

> > 5. Interrupt them as they are about to land with their lotus blossom (there is a small window to hit them)

>

> Did mention the "ranger" - Technically, Soul beast.

>

> 1) Cant dodge something if they have the jump.

> 2) cant be done when you are instantly riddled with immob, slows and cripples

> 3) all the dodges and blocks i have, arent enough.

> 4) I have Bear stance (8) Survival trait (2) Survival on heal (another 2) as well as Entangle(2) and lightening reflexes (2) - without resistance. Its not enough :/

> 5) Small window. Very small when they MAYBE use that once or 2 during the whole fight. Start with Venom and dodge spamming. Use DB once or twice and then finish spam dodging again

>

> Started bringing Dolyak Stance for the Immob and Cripple removal but thats still not enough to keep me alive as its just too much constant application of conditions while they are avoiding all the damage i could potentially do due to them dodge spamming. I have the trait for protection on dodge and 33% less condition damage when i have protection but even that im still taking 3k+ ticks of bleeding alone.

 

Survival traits with your survival skills are very decent.

Even better if you have celestial avatar on druid.

Honestly Soulbeast is gimmicky and isn't as good as Druid for roaming.

You need to counter pressure the thief by knocking him back and keeping him at a distance as Snowy mentioned.

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

> @EremiteAngel.9765 said:

> What class/build are you using?

>

> In general, the most effective way is to:

>

> 1. Dodge their steal if possible

> 2. Widen the gap as often as you can with your mobility skills

> 3. Don't stand still and let them evade all over you

> 4. Bring condi clear (lots of it)

> 5. Interrupt them as they are about to land with their lotus blossom (there is a small window to hit them)

 

Pretty much this, especially now that they took a hefty nerf on the last Balance patch, where they moved the Pvp Endurance regen Nerfs on Thief to WvW. Yes the build is annoying to fight but is a lot more easy to kill now.

[babazhook.6805]

I am not sure where you get near constant immobility. D/D DB has no inherent sources of the same. In order to Immob they have to use Impairing daggers which is one every 24 seconds or rely on panic strike. The range of the DB itself is melee range so if you stay out of melee range only the impaling can hit you and that off a dodge. Impaling is the dodge portion and applies cripple along with torment and bleed. It will take them a LONG time to kill you if all of their conditions come from Impaling , thus the reason to stay out of their DB range.

 

DB is not directional so it pretty predictable where they will land. Added to that once they reach the top of the arc and start to come back down the evade frame is lost and this, added to the landing is when they are vulnerable. If you hit them at this point with your own immobs/stuns etc they become vulnerable. Ranged builds can wreck them.

 

Outside the steal they have very little gap close so if you continue to move around they will have to break out of their DB spam in order to close that cap. Keep in mind as well that they rely on their evades to clear conditions, heal and regen endurance if traited Acro. That means if you are attacking them in that evade frame you are helping them. If you are a condition build, as example, if you do manage to time a condition bomb to hit them, pull away and stop attacking unless you can be sure you will hit them in the proper point in the animation. Generally outside EA they have little cleanse .

 

 

[Choppy.4183]

> @ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

> > @Snowywonders.1378 said:

> > As a druid, I find fighting d/d condi very trivial. What you need to do is just keep moving constantly. It's WvW, lots of open space. Just keep running in circles around them, and have your pet damage them and hit them with key skills when you can. They can't touch you with death blossom when you're constantly moving. Save your big condi clears for their opening combos with steal and venoms. Their secondary weapon is either d/p or SB to run away, or p/d for ranged damage. In the latter case, longbow or staff will easily beat them if they stay at range. Don't play their game, don't stand still.

>

> Im Soulbeast, so no staff for me. Its easier said than done to "dont stay still" but immob was near constant. Thats why i have taken Dolyak Stance in the slim hope that it MIGHT be able to help. They only have to be near you. Not on top to dodge spam and inflict the conditions due to the 300 range they have as well which isnt helping. Again, Death Blossom isnt the problem, as thats just used when they cant do anything else. Its the dodge spamming and getting riddled with conditions that seems rather broken. 300 range. No need to actually target someone. Its the dodge spamming and getting riddled with conditions thats the problem as they evade on top of the conditions :/

 

The best Soulbeast roamer I've come across to date used s+wh/lb and he had plenty of mobility for the job I think (a gs is probably enough too). The thief is using a super-lame build for sure, but you want to make sure you keep moving to force him to burn initiative to get to you and to keep him from chaining death blossom over you. At some point, he's going to be out of stealth and trying to get to you, which is when your longbow can make him suffer. If you get really good at your timing, you can sometimes nail him with a hard hitting skill just as he's landing after a death blossom. The immob is understandably your biggest concern.

 

Again, it's a terrible build... one of those low risk/high reward (vs some builds) that people should be embarrassed to play, but it's still a thing.