It's Time To Let Go of This Most Useless Character

[Bloodstealer.5978]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"Adiabatik.6714" said:

> > H(is/er) treatment of Caith was peculiarly appealing. Calling a friend traitor and going so far as making death threats?! When it was always obvious that their goals were the same (keeping the egg safe).

> Was it obvious? Not to me. What was obvious to me, however, was that Caithe had absolutely zero trust in her "friends" when she went rogue. As such, why exactly should we have trust in her now, and not expect her to try to backstab us next time she decides her goals require it?

>

> > @"Adiabatik.6714" said:

> > Personally, I liked that scene. So far, Braham seems to be the only character to have a day to day life.

> > In fact, having a day to day life should be the default for any character, and the crisis situation the exception.

> > The usual goofball suddenly becoming deadly serious is often a good indication that kitten hit the fan, and is in no way character derailment.

> When Braham becomes deadly serious, it is not an indication that kitten hit the fan. It is a sign he's going to _embarass himself_. Again.

 

Agree, it wasn't obvious to me at that point, but it did provoke thought as to could they be heading for the same thing only in ways that were always going to see them collide head on.

 

Even as far back as LS1 I felt Braham was the somebody who acts on impulse, passion and jumps straight in without much deliberation, whether good intentioned or not. As for the constant self embarrassment, yep I too grant that has been the course this character has been set on as he struggles to find the right path for the right reasons and many times it has made me cringe, which is why I share the view that I would not miss Braham if he should suddenly be swept up and swallowed whole by any number of foes we have encountered to date or are about to.

But maybe, just maybe there was method behind the narrative that has over time brought us to this new Saga.. I will reserved judgement for the moment, because I actually enjoyed this particular Braham increment within the Prologue and hope it sets the scene for something much more uplifting for both his character and his personality.

 

IF NOT THEN PLEASE ANET.. I WANNA BE THE ONE TO PUSH THE POINTY THING IN! :)

[yann.1946]

> @"ScyeRynn.4218" said:

> > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said:

> > > @"ScyeRynn.4218" said:

> > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said:

> > > > > @"ScyeRynn.4218" said:

> > > > > > @"Palador.2170" said:

> > > > > > Let's be clear, I don't like Braham. For a long time, I've wanted him dropped from the story. And him getting drunk in the current story? Yeah, he pretty much ignored the reminder that he was representing our group there.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > But... he did have someone TRYING to get him drunk, so maybe that's not entirely his fault. And for the upcoming story, if we're going to learn something about the Spirits of the Wild, it may be best to have an immature norn with us. This way the player (and the commander, if need be) can learn about the spirits while Braham is getting lectured by wiser norn. It might give him a chance to grow up some, too.

> > > > >

> > > > > It's completely irrelevant who or what caused him to be drunk. The point is that it's being used as a way to further their agenda with Braham as a caricature and not a character. This placeholder journey with Braham has been going on with his character for a long time now and it's unfortunate to see a character that started with so much potential reduced to an empty gimmick.

> > > >

> > > > No they are furthering the agenda of the story.. or are you missing the fact he was being prompted to drink more, fight and.. loosing the heirloom of his family , to which end we do not yet know other than the leader of this Charr dragonhunt now holds it with the instigator apparent by his side.

> > > > I think your trying to read far too much into the Braham character at this stage of what is just the prologue.

> > > > I see this as a way for Braham to open up the Norn part of this story and for him to begin maturing into a more solid, focused member of the group, at least I hope for that.

> > > > I think we get it, you don't like the character or the personality that has been written into him thus far, but your missing the point somewhat in that Braham at a young age has had to deal with some pretty tough stuff that even those of greater years and maturity would also find hard to deal with.. this may be his chance to grow as a player in this story, this game.

> > >

> > > What I was calling "irrelevant" was the need to clarify Braham being drunk or who got him drunk in regards to what my thread is about. I know why Braham was drunk and what it accomplished for their plot. The point is about his slurred speech being intended for comedic intentions. You can have the same plot play out without the overuse of comedy through a character that has already had enough comedy forced on him, for the purpose of one of the agendas of the writers.

> >

> > Have you ever been drunk or tried to converse with someone that is.. it can be kind of funny at times, but it can also be quite a powerful truth serum I guess for many of us.

> > I mean less we forget this was a celebration and some take that as a green light to let their hair down and have some fun, drink too much eat the pantry out of food and yeah do stupid things.. I know a few adults who have done that more times than I can throw a stick at. Add to that Norn are kind of stereotyped into that big brawling moot lovers, equally at home with an oversized weapon in their hand and talking tough or having a Steiner of ale fixed to their mouths slurring dumb talk to whoever about whatever.. but yes it was used to further the narrative of the wider story arc that is at play.

> > So I still do not see why you have such a problem with it, what is the harm, it served a purpose and I think it was executed reasonably well and for me at least it finally made me feel Braham might just be redeemable as a character.

> > Try to enjoy (or not) the story and its writings for what it actually is, not what you think it should be from your own self perceived expertise.

>

> There is no need to further excuse that scene. There never was. The point, again, is that it's Braham. AGAIN. "Ka-Braham!" -- "I have hair!" -- "You know why they call me Eirsson? Because I'm Eir's son." Hilarious. Braham was a stoic, noble, reasonably intelligent character starting out. Now he's shooting Jormag's tooth, being a bratty child to the Commander, and trying to fit in those absolutely ingenious one-liners wherever he can.

>

> Those who want and know something can be better (or at least not awful) don't just eat-up whatever is put in front of them. Creators and designers aren't asking for feedback and opinions because they don't care about what we would like. We point out and they ask because we both want the best for the game. The kind of players you suggest are the kind that don't have credibility in such topics as these, nor do they have any type of argument worth engaging, except for me to point out what I just have.

>

> If you're happy with the game and have nothing to add other than, "It's fine. Just accept it.", then there is nothing left for us to discuss.

 

You do realise that the eirson comment is one of the deepest parts of his character. The desire to get out of his mother's shadow.

[Bloodstealer.5978]

> @"yann.1946" said:

> > @"ScyeRynn.4218" said:

> > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said:

> > > > @"ScyeRynn.4218" said:

> > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said:

> > > > > > @"ScyeRynn.4218" said:

> > > > > > > @"Palador.2170" said:

> > > > > > > Let's be clear, I don't like Braham. For a long time, I've wanted him dropped from the story. And him getting drunk in the current story? Yeah, he pretty much ignored the reminder that he was representing our group there.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > But... he did have someone TRYING to get him drunk, so maybe that's not entirely his fault. And for the upcoming story, if we're going to learn something about the Spirits of the Wild, it may be best to have an immature norn with us. This way the player (and the commander, if need be) can learn about the spirits while Braham is getting lectured by wiser norn. It might give him a chance to grow up some, too.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > It's completely irrelevant who or what caused him to be drunk. The point is that it's being used as a way to further their agenda with Braham as a caricature and not a character. This placeholder journey with Braham has been going on with his character for a long time now and it's unfortunate to see a character that started with so much potential reduced to an empty gimmick.

> > > > >

> > > > > No they are furthering the agenda of the story.. or are you missing the fact he was being prompted to drink more, fight and.. loosing the heirloom of his family , to which end we do not yet know other than the leader of this Charr dragonhunt now holds it with the instigator apparent by his side.

> > > > > I think your trying to read far too much into the Braham character at this stage of what is just the prologue.

> > > > > I see this as a way for Braham to open up the Norn part of this story and for him to begin maturing into a more solid, focused member of the group, at least I hope for that.

> > > > > I think we get it, you don't like the character or the personality that has been written into him thus far, but your missing the point somewhat in that Braham at a young age has had to deal with some pretty tough stuff that even those of greater years and maturity would also find hard to deal with.. this may be his chance to grow as a player in this story, this game.

> > > >

> > > > What I was calling "irrelevant" was the need to clarify Braham being drunk or who got him drunk in regards to what my thread is about. I know why Braham was drunk and what it accomplished for their plot. The point is about his slurred speech being intended for comedic intentions. You can have the same plot play out without the overuse of comedy through a character that has already had enough comedy forced on him, for the purpose of one of the agendas of the writers.

> > >

> > > Have you ever been drunk or tried to converse with someone that is.. it can be kind of funny at times, but it can also be quite a powerful truth serum I guess for many of us.

> > > I mean less we forget this was a celebration and some take that as a green light to let their hair down and have some fun, drink too much eat the pantry out of food and yeah do stupid things.. I know a few adults who have done that more times than I can throw a stick at. Add to that Norn are kind of stereotyped into that big brawling moot lovers, equally at home with an oversized weapon in their hand and talking tough or having a Steiner of ale fixed to their mouths slurring dumb talk to whoever about whatever.. but yes it was used to further the narrative of the wider story arc that is at play.

> > > So I still do not see why you have such a problem with it, what is the harm, it served a purpose and I think it was executed reasonably well and for me at least it finally made me feel Braham might just be redeemable as a character.

> > > Try to enjoy (or not) the story and its writings for what it actually is, not what you think it should be from your own self perceived expertise.

> >

> > There is no need to further excuse that scene. There never was. The point, again, is that it's Braham. AGAIN. "Ka-Braham!" -- "I have hair!" -- "You know why they call me Eirsson? Because I'm Eir's son." Hilarious. Braham was a stoic, noble, reasonably intelligent character starting out. Now he's shooting Jormag's tooth, being a bratty child to the Commander, and trying to fit in those absolutely ingenious one-liners wherever he can.

> >

> > Those who want and know something can be better (or at least not awful) don't just eat-up whatever is put in front of them. Creators and designers aren't asking for feedback and opinions because they don't care about what we would like. We point out and they ask because we both want the best for the game. The kind of players you suggest are the kind that don't have credibility in such topics as these, nor do they have any type of argument worth engaging, except for me to point out what I just have.

> >

> > If you're happy with the game and have nothing to add other than, "It's fine. Just accept it.", then there is nothing left for us to discuss.

>

> You do realise that the eirson comment is one of the deepest parts of his character. The desire to get out of his mother's shadow.

 

Or maybe one of his deepest conflicts… the desire to get out of his mothers shadow, but to also live up to the reputation that precedes him - something we each may have struggled with at one time or another in our lives, which is why I think the writing around Braham's' character and his personality may well be provoking different opinions.

As I have said previous, I hope this will lead to Braham finally breaking free of some, if not all of those obvious flaws that for me at least have seemingly continued to shackle him from having a greater impression on the story.

At the very least this has opened up some interesting debate considering the level of the negativity that had been drawn up leading to the SAGA's prologue going live.

[holodoc.5748]

Leave Bam Bam Stupidson alone! It's not his fault. He was dropped on his head when he was born.

 

Let him at least grow up a bit more and become a decent snack before he gets eaten by something.

[Thornwolf.9721]

> @"ScyeRynn.4218" said:

> It's clear that Anet is unable to let go of their obsession with Braham. The most unlikable, useless character in their story and after years of players asking to get rid of him and stop wasting time and development on him what do they do? They devote and waste even more on him.

>

> Trying so hard to make Braham humorous and silly to make him likable so that we somehow forget just how bad of a character he is. Creating moments where our character is dumbed-down in order to have Braham appear out of nowhere to save us from falling rubble, when we'd just dodge it or would be smart enough to not even stand there in the first place.

>

> Braham is not funny. He's not interesting. He's irritating as fudge. All his lines are cringy and trying to make him seem funny by making him drunk with slurred speech is just desperate and unneeded.

>

> Canach is funny. Intelligent. Interesting. Helpful. Taimi, as annoying as she is with her polarized emotions and 0 to 100 way of speaking, she can be pretty humorous and is at least interesting. She is one of the most helpful and essential characters in this story.

>

> Braham is not. He's just a heavily-forced, ruined, unnecessary, Marvel-movie stereotypical character that should have been gone LONG ago. Everything about him is inauthentic at this point. But he's kept around because Anet still believes he is "redeemable".

>

> It's like when they used to put parsley or even inedible garnishes on your plate at restaurants. It's forced, fake, and unnecessary and just needs to be taken out. Braham would have been better off killed in the place of his mother. I'd rather have Eir here with us at this point in the story. But you killed her off early in the HoT story...

>

> Please for the love of the Five, stop with Braham already. Enough. All you are doing is bringing down a story that just started getting back up to the level of interest it used to have.

>

 

He is our only norn character, who they need to let go of is majory and kasmere or perhaps let go of one of our asuran. He has a chance to redeem himself, he is young and he is brash but he is the only norn we have. They murdered Eir, Jhavi hasn't even been introduced yet and we have no one who could take his place and I want a norn outside of my character in the group. Just because you don't like him doesn't mean he needs to go anywhere and I agree that his writing and character have been all over the place, but lets see what the Saga is gonna do with him before we jump on the hate bandwagon.

 

This kind of thing happened to trahern too who woulda been a nice character have in the story-line, one of the few our characters would of known from before the new cast and woulda went really well with Canach and Caithe. But now they killed him off because of the whining of the few here on the forums and reddit; I don't want the same to happen to braham unless its in a moment of sacrifice where he does act like a norn and holds the line against all odds. I want him to be a good character; Im tired of him being a bad character when we have nothing else to replace him. We need more norn, they are clearly at this point the unwanted step-child and Im hoping this saga will change that view and the feeling norn players have.

[Thornwolf.9721]

> @"Palador.2170" said:

> Let's be clear, I don't like Braham. For a long time, I've wanted him dropped from the story. And him getting drunk in the current story? Yeah, he pretty much ignored the reminder that he was representing our group there.

>

> But... he did have someone TRYING to get him drunk, so maybe that's not entirely his fault. And for the upcoming story, if we're going to learn something about the Spirits of the Wild, it may be best to have an immature norn with us. This way the player (and the commander, if need be) can learn about the spirits while Braham is getting lectured by wiser norn. It might give him a chance to grow up some, too.

 

Norn party hard, or need I remind you one of the options for the player when being a norn is GETTING DRUNK AND HIJACKING A CHARR-TANK AND THEN LOOSING SAID CHARR-TANK AND NOT REMEMBERING ANY OF IT. So I think its in character for a norn to party the hardest, they are individuals and their culture has "We answer to no one but norn" they are not a group entity even those born of wolf still have their individualism.

 

* They are the strongest in terms of raw power of our races that the player can choose, in the original game and in the lore everyone else was scared shitless of them because of their supposed prowess. When we met jora EVERYONE including vekk and ogden was freaking out; The player character only dropped their guard when jora said and I quote "If I wanted you dead, you'd already be dead." Which is when she agreed to help us probably due to her being an outcast and having lost connection to bear, because of her brother svanir. That said... she still was strong as hell in the lore.

* Olaf Olafson seventh son of Olaf is a prefect example of a typical norn, he is sure of himself and he is strong. He is also someone who parties hard and enjoys a good scrap so Im pretty sure Braham is a very small glimpse into the teenage years of a norn prior to growing out of their angst. Which he has already begun to do, remember they are EXTREMELY long lived, which means they easily outlive most races. ( there is a debate that jora might actually still live, or that perhaps olaf might as well. Because we didn't know their age or how long norn could live. Its speculated by scholars in the priory that a norn can live hundreds of years if not killed in battle, they are much like asgardians in marvel... the older they get the stronger they get.)

* Braham was totally in character for his race, it was a celebration of a good hunt. He was also sure ryland and him could be friends as rytlock and eir were close friends because charr and norn share ALOT of the same views. Charr respect the norn because of their individualism and raw prowess, and norn respect charr due to their ferocity and ability to be adaptive in any environment. Both are hyper aggressive and so I feel he got drunk thinking ryland was getting drunk, he was finally able to relax and thought he had made a friend his own age. He was excited at the prospect of meeting Rytlocks son, and Im sure he is hurt that it turned out how it did and Im sure ryland will be redeemed and perhaps even join our guild. Braham has lost his mother, his father and now rox as well which was his closest and most beloved friend so Im pretty sure he was mourning as well as partying. He is a multi-faceted character with depth, of which we have only seen the tip... this saga is gonna be dark and its going to heavily show us what he is made of. Its a NORN story, as well as a charr story but this is jormag we are talking about... this is the NORN plot that has been left open for years so let me tell you now... Braham will grow and perhaps even begin Asgeri 2.0.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Thornwolf.9721" said:

> He is our only norn character, who they need to let go of is majory and kasmere or perhaps let go of one of our asuran. He has a chance to redeem himself, he is young and he is brash but he is the only norn we have. They murdered Eir, Jhavi hasn't even been introduced yet and we have no one who could take his place and **I want a norn outside of my character in the group**.

I'd want that too. Instead, i have Braham

 

> Just because you don't like him doesn't mean he needs to go anywhere and I agree that his writing and character have been all over the place, but lets see what the Saga is gonna do with him before we jump on the hate bandwagon.

You know when i heard this about him first? During the Flame and Frost living story. In _2013_. We've had 6 years seeing what Anet was going to do with him, and yet he's now in even worse state than when he started the journey.

 

>

> We need more norn, they are clearly at this point the unwanted step-child and Im hoping this saga will change that view and the feeling norn players have.

Sincerely, at this point i do not believe Braham can ever be that kind of norn. We need a new Norn NPC that can take this place, if we ever want to see that race represented in all the glory that is due to them. Instead of being a just a comedic relief.

 

[Thornwolf.9721]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"Thornwolf.9721" said:

> > He is our only norn character, who they need to let go of is majory and kasmere or perhaps let go of one of our asuran. He has a chance to redeem himself, he is young and he is brash but he is the only norn we have. They murdered Eir, Jhavi hasn't even been introduced yet and we have no one who could take his place and **I want a norn outside of my character in the group**.

> I'd want that too. Instead, i have Braham

>

> > Just because you don't like him doesn't mean he needs to go anywhere and I agree that his writing and character have been all over the place, but lets see what the Saga is gonna do with him before we jump on the hate bandwagon.

> You know when i heard this about him first? During the Flame and Frost living story. In _2013_. We've had 6 years seeing what Anet was going to do with him, and yet he's now in even worse state than when he started the journey.

>

> >

> > We need more norn, they are clearly at this point the unwanted step-child and Im hoping this saga will change that view and the feeling norn players have.

> Sincerely, at this point i do not believe Braham can ever be that kind of norn. We need a new Norn NPC that can take this place, if we ever want to see that race represented in all the glory that is due to them. Instead of being a just a comedic relief.

>

 

But we all know they will never do anything to remove braham from play. If they do then we will go norn-less, because as I've stated A-net hate the norn lmfao.

[FrizzFreston.5290]

Considering we can have a whole discussion on one character and how we like/dislike his place in the story and seeing how diverse the opinions are...

 

I would say Braham is a pretty good character.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"FrizzFreston.5290" said:

> Considering we can have a whole discussion on one character and how we like/dislike his place in the story and seeing how diverse the opinions are...

>

> I would say Braham is a pretty good character.

I heard that argument used about Scarlet as well. Didn't make her a good villain.

 

[Acheron.4731]

I feel like this is a witch hunt

Let Braham be

[FrizzFreston.5290]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"FrizzFreston.5290" said:

> > Considering we can have a whole discussion on one character and how we like/dislike his place in the story and seeing how diverse the opinions are...

> >

> > I would say Braham is a pretty good character.

> I heard that argument used about Scarlet as well. Didn't make her a good villain.

>

 

In your opinion.

[Bloodstealer.5978]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"FrizzFreston.5290" said:

> > Considering we can have a whole discussion on one character and how we like/dislike his place in the story and seeing how diverse the opinions are...

> >

> > I would say Braham is a pretty good character.

> I heard that argument used about Scarlet as well. Didn't make her a good villain.

>

 

Aside from Joko, I personally consider Scarlet to be our best foe yet.

Such a shame we can't go back and play out LS1, I enjoyed it a heck of a lot.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Bloodstealer.5978" said:

> Aside from Joko, I personally consider Scarlet to be our best foe yet.

Well, that's only because, besides Joko, we _didn't_ have a good foe yet.

(I still consider Balthazar to be way better than Scarlet was. At least he wasn't bending reality to suit his needs by his mere presence)

[Bloodstealer.5978]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said:

> > Aside from Joko, I personally consider Scarlet to be our best foe yet.

> Well, that's only because, besides Joko, we _didn't_ have a good foe yet.

> (I still consider Balthazar to be way better than Scarlet was. At least he wasn't bending reality to suit his needs by his mere presence)

 

Well that's kinda subjective really, but yeah I agree there hasn't been much in the way of competition for top foe other than those three protagonists, I mean for me Zhaitan was a disappointment(but that was early days to be fair), Mordy was a tad too overshadowed by my dislike of Trehearne, Kralk just didn't appeal to me cos I hate all that Brand stuff around the maps, Balthazar was just a little too samey for me just with the body of something reminiscent of an angry old Viking who had seen too many winters... ermm maybe summers in his case :) and Joko was fun, perhaps a little too much fun to take seriously - so I am still all for upvoting Scarlet as top dog, but that's just me.

[Dante.1763]

> @"FrizzFreston.5290" said:

> > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > @"FrizzFreston.5290" said:

> > > Considering we can have a whole discussion on one character and how we like/dislike his place in the story and seeing how diverse the opinions are...

> > >

> > > I would say Braham is a pretty good character.

> > I heard that argument used about Scarlet as well. Didn't make her a good villain.

> >

>

> In your opinion.

 

All the villains in this game have been terrible.

 

You know who was a good villian? just about any of the villians we had in the personal stories, because they didnt get overplayed or overused or given god like powers that make them comedic.

 

I do agree with Astralporing about Braham. I didnt like him in 2013, and i still dont like him, hes a terrible representation of the Norn and honestly i wish they would have kept Eir, and got rid of Braham.

[Cragga the Eighty Third.60]

While I'm not a big fan of Braham (or Norn culture in general) it seemed to me that his drunken exploits moved the story along nicely in this chapter. I also find the Babysitting Braham achievement concept to be amusing.

[flog.3485]

> @"ScyeRynn.4218" said:

> > @"flog.3485" said:

> > > @"ScyeRynn.4218" said:

> > > > @"flog.3485" said:

> > > > > @"ScyeRynn.4218" said:

> > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said:

> > > > > > > @"ScyeRynn.4218" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"ScyeRynn.4218" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"Palador.2170" said:

> > > > > > > > > > Let's be clear, I don't like Braham. For a long time, I've wanted him dropped from the story. And him getting drunk in the current story? Yeah, he pretty much ignored the reminder that he was representing our group there.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > But... he did have someone TRYING to get him drunk, so maybe that's not entirely his fault. And for the upcoming story, if we're going to learn something about the Spirits of the Wild, it may be best to have an immature norn with us. This way the player (and the commander, if need be) can learn about the spirits while Braham is getting lectured by wiser norn. It might give him a chance to grow up some, too.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > It's completely irrelevant who or what caused him to be drunk. The point is that it's being used as a way to further their agenda with Braham as a caricature and not a character. This placeholder journey with Braham has been going on with his character for a long time now and it's unfortunate to see a character that started with so much potential reduced to an empty gimmick.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > No they are furthering the agenda of the story.. or are you missing the fact he was being prompted to drink more, fight and.. loosing the heirloom of his family , to which end we do not yet know other than the leader of this Charr dragonhunt now holds it with the instigator apparent by his side.

> > > > > > > > I think your trying to read far too much into the Braham character at this stage of what is just the prologue.

> > > > > > > > I see this as a way for Braham to open up the Norn part of this story and for him to begin maturing into a more solid, focused member of the group, at least I hope for that.

> > > > > > > > I think we get it, you don't like the character or the personality that has been written into him thus far, but your missing the point somewhat in that Braham at a young age has had to deal with some pretty tough stuff that even those of greater years and maturity would also find hard to deal with.. this may be his chance to grow as a player in this story, this game.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > What I was calling "irrelevant" was the need to clarify Braham being drunk or who got him drunk in regards to what my thread is about. I know why Braham was drunk and what it accomplished for their plot. The point is about his slurred speech being intended for comedic intentions. You can have the same plot play out without the overuse of comedy through a character that has already had enough comedy forced on him, for the purpose of one of the agendas of the writers.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Have you ever been drunk or tried to converse with someone that is.. it can be kind of funny at times, but it can also be quite a powerful truth serum I guess for many of us.

> > > > > > I mean less we forget this was a celebration and some take that as a green light to let their hair down and have some fun, drink too much eat the pantry out of food and yeah do stupid things.. I know a few adults who have done that more times than I can throw a stick at. Add to that Norn are kind of stereotyped into that big brawling moot lovers, equally at home with an oversized weapon in their hand and talking tough or having a Steiner of ale fixed to their mouths slurring dumb talk to whoever about whatever.. but yes it was used to further the narrative of the wider story arc that is at play.

> > > > > > So I still do not see why you have such a problem with it, what is the harm, it served a purpose and I think it was executed reasonably well and for me at least it finally made me feel Braham might just be redeemable as a character.

> > > > > > Try to enjoy (or not) the story and its writings for what it actually is, not what you think it should be from your own self perceived expertise.

> > > > >

> > > > > There is no need to further excuse that scene. There never was. The point, again, is that it's Braham. AGAIN. "Ka-Braham!" -- "I have hair!" -- "You know why they call me Eirsson? Because I'm Eir's son." Hilarious. Braham was a stoic, noble, reasonably intelligent character starting out. Now he's shooting Jormag's tooth, being a bratty child to the Commander, and trying to fit in those absolutely ingenious one-liners wherever he can.

> > > > >

> > > > > Those who want and know something can be better (or at least not awful) don't just eat-up whatever is put in front of them. Creators and designers don't ask for feedback and opinions because they don't care about what we would like. We point out and they ask because we both want the best for the game. The kind of players you suggest are the kind that don't have credibility in such topics as these, nor do they have any type of argument worth engaging, except for me to point out what I just have.

> > > > >

> > > > > If you're happy with the game and have nothing to add other than, "It's fine. Just accept it.", then there is nothing left for us to discuss.

> > > >

> > > > Sorry to interject, but I really need to know about this. At what point in the story was he ever a stoic, noble, reasonably intelligent character ?

> > >

> > > Right where he began. Trying to save Craigstead. He went around trying to gather help from different groups and actually had a cool foundation for his character. He was going to be a hero and do great things for his people. This is when Braham was actually an interesting character.

> >

> > Ok I see, so this where the big issue lies then and why your rant pretty much falls short imo:

> > you are basing your hatred of current Braham based on some season 1 content that nobody can play.

> >

> > I mean season 1 happened 7 years ago. Everything that was entailed in season 1 almost became irrelevant when it comes to character development. They had original ideas about how Braham should be portrayed but obviously they changed their ideas over the course of the years.

> > The thing is most players don’t even know how Braham was portrayed and frankly even if I was here since the nightmare tower update (if I recall correctly) season 1 feels like a million years ago. I could not even tell you if the season 1 update you are talking about happened while I was here or not.

> >

> > What is also interesting to note is that even if Braham has had his “goofy” sides for quite some time now, everything you want out of him can still happen. I mean we are only at episode 0, we don’t even know how many episodes this saga will contain and most importantly, this prologue is a direct follow through of episode 6 season 4, where guess what, Braham and even Taimi were both cheerful and drunk. We are only just experiencing here a proper “kralkatorrik has been defeated” episode with a darker tone at the end to be properly transitioned into episode 1.

>

> So where do we draw the line of where content matters? If the story is only canon after LWS1, then why are other things that came from or were shaped by that season still canon? The world, story, many elements of the current game stemmed from LW 1 and even GW 1 which was never playable in GW 2.

>

> If LW 1 doesn't count, then why are Braham and others even in the game? Why is there an NPC recapping and giving that same story info as official canon in the game currently?

>

> Braham was a character in LW 1. Since HoT, that character no longer exists. He is now "KA-BRAHAM!!!"

>

> They could still do something great with his character. It would certainly be better than this but overall Braham as a character and his complete journey will be an inconsistent mess. I would like Braham more, but he would still be the worst-developed character of the main characters. Rox, who has been snubbed most of time, had a consistent believable journey and she more than Braham could have a satisfying resurgence in her storyline.

 

Well obviously I would draw the line at the start on LS2 because everything from season 2 onwards is accessible to any players who bought the game.

 

You talk about that NPC who recaps the major story elements from season 1 but the thing is you would play season 2 with its subsequent story journal and yet you would get some character development about Braham being sometimes goofy and having some parent issue, about Marjory and Kasmeer being a lesbian couple, about Taimi being an annoying yet very intelligent asura, about Rox having some difficulty finding her plan within the Charr society etc...Nothing really major and groundbreaking is locked behind season 1 that explains the crew we have got now.

I mean as far as I know (please correct me if I am wrong), the few lines you get from that story recap NPC don’t really depict braham as that stoic, reasonably intelligent character. And even if he truly was, it doesn’t stop him from acting the way he acted in this prologue.

 

[Lilyanna.9361]

You guys are insulting a teenager. Good job. Yes, he's a norn and yes norn were practically built to take on the Tyrian world, but let me repeat the fact that Braham is the equivalent of your emotional teenager/young adult.

 

It makes SENSE that he was moody towards a mother that left him, heart-broken when she's killed, distant with his comrades, angry with the Commander because they could not save her, but now finally apolgetic, loyal, and a tad bit clingy as a friend. This all screams to me that he is simply young.

 

Being goofy, light-hearted and what not is just the personality quirks, but EVERY single 'cringey' emotion you described is very justifiable when we look at Braham the same way an adult look at a teenager trying to figure themselves, their emotions, and how to react to the stimuli the world offers to them. Talking about essentially a young adult/older teen equivalent just makes you people look downright cringe-worthy to be honest just because how you can't seem to decipher very clear laid out reasons Braham had his mood swings during different parts of the story.

[Dante.1763]

> @"Lilyanna.9361" said:

> You guys are insulting a teenager. Good job. Yes, he's a norn and yes norn were practically built to take on the Tyrian world, but let me repeat the fact that Braham is the equivalent of your emotional teenager/young adult.

>

> It makes SENSE that he was moody towards a mother that left him, heart-broken when she's killed, distant with his comrades, angry with the Commander because they could not save her, but now finally apolgetic, loyal, and a tad bit clingy as a friend. This all screams to me that he is simply young.

>

> Being goofy, light-hearted and what not is just the personality quirks, but EVERY single 'cringey' emotion you described is very justifiable when we look at Braham the same way an adult look at a teenager trying to figure themselves, their emotions, and how to react to the stimuli the world offers to them. Talking about essentially a young adult/older teen equivalent just makes you people look downright cringe-worthy to be honest just because how you can't seem to decipher very clear laid out reasons Braham had his mood swings during different parts of the story.

 

Braham is 23. Hes roughly my age(and i sure as hell never acted like he did when i was 18. Not even when close friends/family have died. Everyone reacts differently sure, ill give you that). Hes NOT a human, and shouldnt act like a HUMAN, hes a norn, they have an entirely different way they treat death. Getting drunk and partying, fine, that makes sense. But everything else, not so much.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Lilyanna.9361" said:

> You guys are insulting a teenager. Good job. Yes, he's a norn and yes norn were practically built to take on the Tyrian world, but let me repeat the fact that Braham is the equivalent of your emotional teenager/young adult.

Again, i have to reiterate, _so was **Jora**_. He isn't any younger than she was. Nor the things that she have suffered were any kinder to her than they were to him.

 

 

> It makes SENSE that he was moody towards a mother that left him, heart-broken when she's killed, distant with his comrades, angry with the Commander because they could not save her, but now finally apolgetic, loyal, and a tad bit clingy as a friend. This all screams to me that he is simply young.

>

> Being goofy, light-hearted and what not is just the personality quirks, but EVERY single 'cringey' emotion you described is very justifiable when we look at Braham the same way an adult look at a teenager trying to figure themselves, their emotions, and how to react to the stimuli the world offers to them. Talking about essentially a young adult/older teen equivalent just makes you people look downright cringe-worthy to be honest just because how you can't seem to decipher very clear laid out reasons Braham had his mood swings during different parts of the story.

Yes, all these things are justifiable. I mean, it would be even justifiable if he was the sorriest excuse of a Norn in existence - after all, in any giiven group there are bound to be people that are below average. The question remains - why such a person needs to be a Norn representative in the protagonist's group? Why do we need to have do with a whiney kid that should have probably been left at home till he grows up?

[Agrotera.1254]

> @"Thornwolf.9721" said:

>

> Norn party hard, or need I remind you one of the options for the player when being a norn is GETTING DRUNK AND HIJACKING A CHARR-TANK AND THEN LOOSING SAID CHARR-TANK AND NOT REMEMBERING ANY OF IT. So I think its in character for a norn to party the hardest, they are individuals and their culture has "We answer to no one but norn" they are not a group entity even those born of wolf still have their individualism.

>

> * They are the strongest in terms of raw power of our races that the player can choose, in the original game and in the lore everyone else was scared shitless of them because of their supposed prowess. When we met jora EVERYONE including vekk and ogden was freaking out; The player character only dropped their guard when jora said and I quote "If I wanted you dead, you'd already be dead." Which is when she agreed to help us probably due to her being an outcast and having lost connection to bear, because of her brother svanir. That said... she still was strong as hell in the lore.

> * Olaf Olafson seventh son of Olaf is a prefect example of a typical norn, he is sure of himself and he is strong. He is also someone who parties hard and enjoys a good scrap so Im pretty sure Braham is a very small glimpse into the teenage years of a norn prior to growing out of their angst. Which he has already begun to do, remember they are EXTREMELY long lived, which means they easily outlive most races. ( there is a debate that jora might actually still live, or that perhaps olaf might as well. Because we didn't know their age or how long norn could live. Its speculated by scholars in the priory that a norn can live hundreds of years if not killed in battle, they are much like asgardians in marvel... the older they get the stronger they get.)

> * Braham was totally in character for his race, it was a celebration of a good hunt. He was also sure ryland and him could be friends as rytlock and eir were close friends because charr and norn share ALOT of the same views. Charr respect the norn because of their individualism and raw prowess, and norn respect charr due to their ferocity and ability to be adaptive in any environment. Both are hyper aggressive and so I feel he got drunk thinking ryland was getting drunk, he was finally able to relax and thought he had made a friend his own age. He was excited at the prospect of meeting Rytlocks son, and Im sure he is hurt that it turned out how it did and Im sure ryland will be redeemed and perhaps even join our guild. Braham has lost his mother, his father and now rox as well which was his closest and most beloved friend so Im pretty sure he was mourning as well as partying. He is a multi-faceted character with depth, of which we have only seen the tip... this saga is gonna be dark and its going to heavily show us what he is made of. Its a NORN story, as well as a charr story but this is jormag we are talking about... this is the NORN plot that has been left open for years so let me tell you now... Braham will grow and perhaps even begin Asgeri 2.0.

 

 

 

This is the best explanation of Braham that I have seen. Very well said!

[Brycar.2651]

> @"Tazer.2157" said:

> > @"ScyeRynn.4218" said:

> > It's clear that Anet is unable to let go of their obsession with Braham. The most unlikable, useless character in their story and after years of players asking to get rid of him and stop wasting time and development on him what do they do? They devote and waste even more on him.

> >

> > Trying so hard to make Braham humorous and silly to make him likable so that we somehow forget just how bad of a character he is. Creating moments where our character is dumbed-down in order to have Braham appear out of nowhere to save us from falling rubble, when we'd just dodge it or would be smart enough to not even stand there in the first place.

> >

> > Braham is not funny. He's not interesting. He's irritating as fudge. All his lines are cringy and trying to make him seem funny by making him drunk with slurred speech is just desperate and unneeded.

> >

> > Canach is funny. Intelligent. Interesting. Helpful. Taimi, as annoying as she is with her polarized emotions and 0 to 100 way of speaking, she can be pretty humorous and is at least interesting. She is one of the most helpful and essential characters in this story.

> >

> > Braham is not and never will be. He's just a heavily-forced, ruined, unnecessary, Marvel-movie stereotypical character that should have been gone LONG ago. Everything about him is inauthentic at this point. But he's kept around because Anet still believes he is "redeemable".

> >

> > It's like when they used to put parsley or even inedible garnishes on your plate at restaurants. It's forced, fake, and unnecessary and just needs to be taken out. Braham would have been better off killed in the place of his mother. I'd rather have Eir here with us at this point in the story. But you killed her off early in the HoT story...

> >

> > Please for the love of the Five, stop with Braham already. Enough. All you are doing is bringing down a story that just started getting back up to the level of interest it used to have.

>

> Stop crying. I like Braham. I like the drunken slob that he is. Just because you dislike a character it does not mean that the character should be removed from the game. Last time I checked we aren't in North Korea where we ban everything we do not like. You obviously have not played the norn starter zone mission where you have the chance to get drunk and wake up after a hangover. Braham fits the Norn's love for drinking.

 

I like Braham. Yes, he is a doofus but that is why I like him. I like to think Anet has been listening and this is the path to B becoming a legendary hero. But first we (and new players) needed to see / be reminded of B’s low bar starting point so the transformation is even greater.

 

Also, this episode feels like an homage to the Norn personal story. The Norn player gets drunk, blacks out and loses a family heirloom. I think it is great to remind us this is a VERY Norn-ish thing to do.

[hellsqueen.3045]

Braham isn't a bad character, he just had phases that made him unlikeable due to them being poorly written.

 

Braham was raised by his father so his mother (Eir who I liked as a character and mentor) could go off and live an adventure and make a name for herself and after it was over she still didn't make an effort to reconnect with him of her own accord. To me this paints Eir as a selfish mother even though she was a good and valuable character. This painted her as a character with faults. That is good.

 

If I remember correctly Braham wanted to start his own life after his father died? He probably mourned and cared but you don't see him enter an emo phase because of it, you see him want to get out into the world and make his father proud.

 

In this adventure it leads him to meeting his mother and getting to bond with her and that is totally fine. But his stand off approach to his mother is very quickly and unrealistically replaced with strong attachment. As someone who was raised by her father and had a very distant relationship with my mother even though I saw her more than Braham did for example, I still do not have much attachmentand love for my mother. She is my mum in a way that she gave birth to me but my father and step mother are my family who I love dearly.

 

This leads me to if my mother died, not necessarily in the same way that Eir died, I would be sad and mourn for my mother but I would not be the same for my mother as I would for my father and step mother.

 

This is why I believe Braham was poorly written in LWS3, the excuse for his disgust with the player character comes from Eir's death. He rejected us because someone who basically mostly abandoned him in his childhood and taught him very little until LWS2, had died and he reacted like she was the only thing in this world.

 

It didn't make for a very convincingly written tale.

 

I would sooner see Taimi reacting in this way had it been Zojja killed in Eir's place and instead saving Eir from the pod so she gets a chance to grow and redeem her faults as a mother. Similarly in the way we see Rytlock dealing with potentially failing as a father because Charr do things differently.

 

Eir and Rytlock both dealing with their failings of parenting together would have been beautiful.

 

Basically, Braham's emo phase and hatred of the player character had no actual sound story to it. It seemed forced. But his character being a friend and our dude bro truly works along with the fact that us trying to mentor him is pretty big. To become a mentor after always being on the receiving end is a nice development for our own character.

 

And had Taimi been the one with the Emo Phase, it could have been interesting to see her working with the inquest for study and only focusing on the impacts of it on the Commander and then realising how much it was hurting everything else and was not what Zojja would have wanted. And that the hate for the Commander was misplaced as they always try to save everyone and they can't save everyone because it is statistically impossible to save everyone. And then we save Taimi from the golem for her own mistakes.

[Palador.2170]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> Yes, all these things are justifiable. I mean, it would be even justifiable if he was the sorriest excuse of a Norn in existence - after all, in any giiven group there are bound to be people that are below average. The question remains - why such a person needs to be a Norn representative in the protagonist's group? Why do we need to have do with a whiney kid that should have probably been left at home till he grows up?

 

As I've said elsewhere, the upcoming plot NEEDS an immature norn.

 

We're going to be delving into the lore and lessons behind the 4 Great Spirits of the norn, apparently. And that means that someone will be explaining things to us, and teaching us all about them. That's great for most Commanders, but not if the Commander is a norn themselves. A norn Commander should know something here already, and may even have a solid background of dealing with spirits depending on their personal story. Having a more immature norn with us, however, gives the NPCs someone else to lecture while the Commander just happens to be there as well. Problem averted.

 

If they wrote Braham out tomorrow, they'd just have to stick someone else in to fill that role. And it's likely they'd annoy you in much the same way. But there are hints that they're finally thinking about what they've been doing with the character, and want to improve him during this storyline, so... if we're going to be stuck with a pest anyway, let's keep the one with some lore behind them and hope they finally do right with him.