Low Level mounts in base game

[Cyrin.1035]

> @"castlemanic.3198" said:

> This horse was beaten to death in the old forum, revived, beaten to death, raised as an undead horse, beaten to death, came back as a ghost, was still beaten to death somehow, came back once more and was sacrificed to the eater of souls to prevent it from coming back again once path of fire was released.

>

> There's a reason why the mounts added in path of fire weren't simply speed boosts, because they're not mechanically interesting, they don't add value to the game and there's still no need of them in core tyria with the frequency of waypoints and their distribution. As someone who's been against mounts from the very beginning, the reasons why they won't work in core tyria *are still there*. The mounts in Path of Fire are bonus for core tyria, and because they're mechanically interesting and interact with the environment in unique ways that a simple speedboost mount doesn't, but in no way are they needed.

>

> If a mount was to be added in core tyria, it would need to be mechanically interesting, not a simple speed boost.

 

What do you consider "value" to the game or what is "needed" in the game? Mounts are a pleasure to have regardless of any other mechanics they have. The fact that they get me across the maps quickly regardless of the map's size and make travel without waypoints more exciting as well as stylish is enough to warrant their existence.

 

A game based on aesthetic doesn't always need to validate a new feature or element's existence with a "mechanically interesting" aspect. I can do world comp far faster with the mounts. I can reveal an entire map quickly with my griffon. They work as well as they need to in core Tyria maps.

 

Fortunately, not everything in a game is about mechanics, metas, and having everything meet a certain mechanical need. That kind of obsession is what makes the current boss fights so repetitive and boring. Sometimes the experience and indulgence of a game feature is all that's needed to have fun in a game designed for having fun.

 

[starlinvf.1358]

> @"Cerioth.7062" said:

> I honestly wish mounts were PoF only and gliders HoT only.

>

> As that is not so, we have mounts that basically break the base game now. I do not see any reason to add low level mounts. The core game was never made for one. I think you take all the value out of those maps. It is already easy enough for newbies to buy PoF and get a raptor - which many do because they want to have mounts. It is unfortunate. I feel like they are missing a great part of the game. Exploring without mounts can be fun if you make it so.

 

When HOT first game out, Glider's were disabled in Core Tyria. But they had to change that, because movement based elements have a massive affect on player habits. Core Tyria has several areas with sharp high to low transitions, which in Heart of Maguuma is a signal to a player that this is an area meant to be glided. This resulted in a massive increase in character suicide rates across the Core maps, as many players were habitually leaping off cliffs to quickly reach lower areas.

 

This is the double edge sword with using an Off-Rails Movement systems. Players see the conditions in which they would normally "decide" to use an ability, only to find the ability is not available. Without solid reasoning behind this, its insanely jarring unless you train a new conditional behavior into the players. This is why most MMOs don't use complex movement systems, or at the very least control its use to specific entry points. Originally HoT was going to use fixed points to gain access to Gliders, like how we use Jump pads now. But because of how stupidly fun glider are, they made it off-rails, and usable anywhere in HoM maps, and started designing map challenges around this concept. WvW was the last to get gliding due to concerns about game breaking traversal; but it became so ingrained in player behavior, they added it there with several maps tweaks.

 

Unlike Core Tyria, WvW maps were already designed with heavy pathing and area partitioning to hamper siege abuse. Incidentally, this also had the side effect of gliders being able to unbypass certain areas, since Alpine maps and EBG naturally flow down hill from a defensive perspective. Desert BL was practically made for gliding, and it actually surprised me it wasn't enabled from the get-go.

 

The problem, ultimately, is that Core Tyria was trying to leverage a particular type of mobility and exploration that required a lot of free movement and a specific type of level design language to draw player attention to vertical access. Because of these initial efforts to make full use of vertical pathways, it resulted in a lot of the same high areas HoT uses to signal players that Gliding is a good idea. Players were trained to climb up, and glide down... and unfortunately, Core Tyria didn't have this danger in mind when they designed the maps. PoF also has a significant vertical element and deadly terrain, which Crystal Desert maps have trained players to see as places they should be using mounts. Again, not having this in mind, Core Tyria uses terrain hazards differently, which the mounts are designed to bypass.... hence why they break normal movement. The Raptor and Springer dismounts are also OP as hell to the glassy tyiran mobs, and I seriously believe they need to adjust those since those actively interfere with tag sharing that Core relies on.

[Einlanzer.1627]

> @"Ojimaru.8970" said:

> > @BlindeyeInsight.5367 said:

> > Traveling with mounts is more fun than clicking through loading screens. I never enjoyed the waypoints in this game as they break-up the feeling of immersion and exploration I enjoy in open games like this. So to _me_ they would add value.

>

> So pulling a horse out of your pocket is totally immersive? Right...

>

> Adding a form of non-character-based speed boost for traversal is akin to a developer saying from the start, "My content is worthless and doesn't have any value, therefore here I am providing you a way to skip my content." Then when players are allowed to ignore the world around them and simply speed past plains, swamps, and mountain ranges alike, there is much less of a need to populate the world with _anything_.

>

> This may work in games where the end goals was confined in a very specific niche of the game, such as raid instances like WoW, or hard-mode dungeons like TERA. Fact of the matter is, Guild Wars 2 was _never_ created around those kinds of content, especially considering the incentives for instanced content do not progress a character. This means that, after zooming past all the maps on all your characters... what then?

 

This is a very flawed argument. For one, you could make the exact same argument about waypoints and speedboosts, and it's a bad argument in either case. Nobody wants to make the same slow run over and over and over again, and developers shouldn't force you to have to.

 

Second, even in a world with waypoint travel, it's difficult to imagine that mountable animals exist and yet people would for some reason choose not to use them for traveling and would instead run to every destination as they cross a desert or a mountain. It makes no sense and is immersion breaking. Riding a mount through the countryside is far, far, far better for immersion than running slowly through it is. It doesn't matter if the horse "popped out of your pocket" - it's easy to accept that as a gameplay convention.

 

On top of all of that, they're a highly attractive collectible for a lot of people that play MMOs. It was pretty dumb to not have them to help fund the game from the beginning.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

The mounts are usable in core Tyria as a way of advertising Path of Fire to Core and F2P players. Just like gliders were for HoT.

 

I'm pretty sure Anet values that silent, burning desire the core players have to acquire mounts. by gating that commodity to PoF, they increase sales.

[Pifil.5193]

> @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> The mounts are usable in core Tyria as a way of advertising Path of Fire to Core and F2P players. Just like gliders were for HoT.

>

> I'm pretty sure Anet values that silent, burning desire the core players have to acquire mounts. by gating that commodity to PoF, they increase sales.

 

This is exactly it. As the old saying goes, why buy a cow when you can get milk for free?

 

Gliders and mounts are probably the main selling points for the expansions. If you want them then you have to buy the expansions.

[Laila Lightness.8742]

> @"Aramus.8143" said:

> Like Laila Lightness.8742 said:

> "Then mounts shouldn't be usable in core areas but they are"

>

> I agree with you 100%. For me they took a lot of fun out of the game by giving every one mounts, I'm sure no one will agree with that.

> Just as an example a couple days ago I started a new character just to try something out with a different build. I started to do the first quest at

> level 1 or 2 and here's these players on their big birds and lizards killing stuff I needed before I could get any where near them. To me that's not fun.

>

> I loved the game before the mounts when you played the game the way it was supposed to be played, that's my opinion any way.

>

> Arenanet if you're reading this I have a proposal. Make a server where you can't get a mount until you complete all the maps and get to level 80 with

> no boosts. You can move me over there right now and delete the 2 boosts that I have no intention of using. And also I would be more than happy to pay

> $10 or $15 a month for the privilege. You can bill me for the first year right away.

 

I got same opinion on all ecpansion content e specs should only be usable in hot and pof. So new players wont feel forced to buy expansions until.

[Martimus.6027]

> @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> > @"Aramus.8143" said:

> > Like Laila Lightness.8742 said:

> > "Then mounts shouldn't be usable in core areas but they are"

> >

> > I agree with you 100%. For me they took a lot of fun out of the game by giving every one mounts, I'm sure no one will agree with that.

> > Just as an example a couple days ago I started a new character just to try something out with a different build. I started to do the first quest at

> > level 1 or 2 and here's these players on their big birds and lizards killing stuff I needed before I could get any where near them. To me that's not fun.

> >

> > I loved the game before the mounts when you played the game the way it was supposed to be played, that's my opinion any way.

> >

> > Arenanet if you're reading this I have a proposal. Make a server where you can't get a mount until you complete all the maps and get to level 80 with

> > no boosts. You can move me over there right now and delete the 2 boosts that I have no intention of using. And also I would be more than happy to pay

> > $10 or $15 a month for the privilege. You can bill me for the first year right away.

>

> I got same opinion on all ecpansion content e specs should only be usable in hot and pof. So new players wont feel forced to buy expansions until.

 

Sorry, but 'how you feel' is not anyone's responsibility but your own. The entire point of Anet and GW2's existence is to make a profit off of providing a service people want to buy and utilize. If you can't afford a $30 expansion, you have bigger priorities in your life you need to manage other than having feels about gaming.

[Wolf.4703]

> @"castlemanic.3198" said:

> > @BlindeyeInsight.5367 said:

> > Traveling with mounts is more fun than clicking through loading screens. I never enjoyed the waypoints in this game as they break-up the feeling of immersion and exploration I enjoy in open games like this. So to _me_ they would add value.

>

> Which is a fair point, but with the official mount video, the devs said they stayed away from traditional mmo mounts because GW2 does things differently.

>

> So how would you make core tyria mounts mechanically interesting without stepping on the toes of the path of fire mounts?

>

> Remember, one leaps forward, one jumps high, one hovers over water, one teleports a short distance and one is useful for gliding. So if you have another unique and interesting idea that would work for central tyria that doesn't step on the toes of those mounts, please share, cause that's probably the only way it would happen.

 

One word.... Water

[Biff.5312]

Mounts are an incentive to level up and to buy the expansion. Why would they give them to you at low level?

 

Frankly, I never felt like I was moving too slowly before mounts. Now of course I wouldn't want to go back, but for a new player, walking speed is fine. There are boosts available and they can use them if so desired.

[castlemanic.3198]

> @"Martimus.6027" said:

> > @"castlemanic.3198" said:

> > This horse was beaten to death in the old forum, revived, beaten to death, raised as an undead horse, beaten to death, came back as a ghost, was still beaten to death somehow, came back once more and was sacrificed to the eater of souls to prevent it from coming back again once path of fire was released.

> >

> > There's a reason why the mounts added in path of fire weren't simply speed boosts, because they're not mechanically interesting, they don't add value to the game and there's still no need of them in core tyria with the frequency of waypoints and their distribution. As someone who's been against mounts from the very beginning, the reasons why they won't work in core tyria *are still there*. The mounts in Path of Fire are bonus for core tyria, and because they're mechanically interesting and interact with the environment in unique ways that a simple speedboost mount doesn't, but in no way are they needed.

> >

> > If a mount was to be added in core tyria, it would need to be mechanically interesting, not a simple speed boost.

>

> ........and also because they can't really monetize a mount skin that only adds a speed boost.

>

> But I digress; I bought the expansion mostly because of the elite specs, and also no small part because of the mounts. People using mounts in core areas does not stop you from playing the game without a mount available. If it's an issue of you being unable to make it to an event mob and being able to tag it in time, I can understand that being a minor inconvenience and my suggestion is: go unlock the mounts. They aren't exactly difficult to unlock. You go to the designated area, perform the heart rep quests and buy the mount unlock item. Not hard. And I was on a break for 3 years from this game and got them all unlocked in a very small amount of time. Like, an hour or two, IIRC. Griffin is a different story altogether. That took me some time to raise the gold, but that's intentional. Griffin is certainly a luxury, but even it can be done in a day if you have 250 gold. And even if you don't, you can buy gold with gems from real money and still get it all done in a day. Actually, much less than a day.

>

> TLDR: You'll be ok. Just play the game.

 

I'm curious if you even read the post or quoted the wrong one, because you seemingly are talking about a completely different post when quoting mine.