I met like 3 revs in pvp after pof launch

[otto.5684]

> @Razor.6392 said:

> Power rev remains as one of the most overtuned (in the right situations) spec ever introduced. I might get some flak by saying this but being weak to condis doesn't mean a class with so many defenses and utility built into their offense is balanced. I hope they never get buffed.

 

I always hear of some legendary Rev out there, that can do some magic, and that the class is deeply misunderstood or hard to play. I am sure there are some amazing revs out there, but I have also heard of someone using a pretty non-functional build and having major success in sPvP on every class. It is not a measure of anything unless a good portion of the highly skilled players (not the top 0.1% to be clear) can do the same, which is not true for Rev, at all. The AOE CCs make it power Rev "amazing" in some situations, but I cannot reliably play a class depending on "hail Marys." Add the boon strip/corruption added with PoF.. Rev both power and condi are not in a good place, not even remotely.

 

And Renegade is... not playable at all in sPvP.

 

 

[Kuya.6495]

I think rev has a hard time coming back because the meta is still condi. Condi rev would be the response to that but i hear revs say it's not competitive. How would you guys make condi rev a more competitive spec to use? keep in mind, it should have weaknesses. so while condi rev should be strong vs condi classes, it shoulf be weak to power to balance it with power Herald.

[Aza.2105]

> @Kuya.6495 said:

> I think rev has a hard time coming back because the meta is still condi. Condi rev would be the response to that but i hear revs say it's not competitive. How would you guys make condi rev a more competitive spec to use? keep in mind, it should have weaknesses. so while condi rev should be strong vs condi classes, it shoulf be weak to power to balance it with power Herald.

 

Well that is the problem with the current meta. Most class specs aren't weak to much of anything.

[otto.5684]

> @Kuya.6495 said:

> I think rev has a hard time coming back because the meta is still condi. Condi rev would be the response to that but i hear revs say it's not competitive. How would you guys make condi rev a more competitive spec to use? keep in mind, it should have weaknesses. so while condi rev should be strong vs condi classes, it shoulf be weak to power to balance it with power Herald.

 

I play condi rev. I am by no means an expert but the issues I have:

 

1. Over reliance on resistance to fight condis. If it is stripped (which never happens!) you are toast.

2. Less access to evades, since you do not use Shiro and you either sacrifice staff or sword. It is not terribly bad, but I run into issues with focus fire, more than other classes/builds I typically play.

3. No access to stability outside of retribution and on evade. It is a bad mechanic all together. CC break is good but costs 30 energy :/

4. Damage is too much melee target based AOE. This can be good or bad depending on the situation, but fighting highly evasive classes is difficult. And staying in melee sometimes is difficult

5. TBH, any time I switch out of Mallyx I am at a disadvantage due to some of the above, but considering how energy management is, you have no choice but to switch sometimes.

 

And that is without Renegade. Renegade has less sustain, less evades, no mobility and you get.. well.. a mediocre ranged weapon and a dance crew!

[Einlanzer.1627]

Revenants are just a half-finished class all the way around. I wouldn't even care that much about being a little suboptimal if I at least had a fair number of things to play around with. Instead, I face severely railroaded gameplay with fixed utility skills, half the number of skills other classes have, no profession unique attribute, clumsy resource mechanics, very shoddy underwater options, and elite specs that are designed to try to finish the class rather than mixing them up with new options that are creative and different.

 

It's actually really absurd and unprofessional that in two years they haven't revisited the core profession at all to address its underlying problems. Renegade just brought them to the forefront after Herald acted as a bandaid fix for a badly executed base profession. The class team just kind of sucks. They either need more people or new people with new ideas and a bigger picture focus.

[Kuya.6495]

> @otto.5684 said:

> > @Kuya.6495 said:

> > I think rev has a hard time coming back because the meta is still condi. Condi rev would be the response to that but i hear revs say it's not competitive. How would you guys make condi rev a more competitive spec to use? keep in mind, it should have weaknesses. so while condi rev should be strong vs condi classes, it shoulf be weak to power to balance it with power Herald.

>

> I play condi rev. I am by no means an expert but the issues I have:

>

> 1. Over reliance on resistance to fight condis. If it is stripped (which never happens!) you are toast.

> 2. Less access to evades, since you do not use Shiro and you either sacrifice staff or sword. It is not terribly bad, but I run into issues with focus fire, more than other classes/builds I typically play.

> 3. No access to stability outside of retribution and on evade. It is a bad mechanic all together. CC break is good but costs 30 energy :/

> 4. Damage is too much melee target based AOE. This can be good or bad depending on the situation, but fighting highly evasive classes is difficult. And staying in melee sometimes is difficult

> 5. TBH, any time I switch out of Mallyx I am at a disadvantage due to some of the above, but considering how energy management is, you have no choice but to switch sometimes.

>

> And that is without Renegade. Renegade has less sustain, less evades, no mobility and you get.. well.. a mediocre ranged weapon and a dance crew!

 

Is going mallyx/herald with shield not a good way to fix the sustain issues? I know the stability and stunbreak problems aren't fixed by herald though.

[xDudisx.5914]

In wvw it is almost impossible to find a rev using the new especialzation. I saw less than 10 until now.

[JayAction.9056]

Renegade utilities should be as potent as DH traps or necro wells.

 

As they are now nobody even has to pay attention to them when they are on the field. It should be pretty insane damage/utility being provided if you have 2+ of these out (considering the energy costs) and the enemy is just sitting in them.

 

 

[otto.5684]

> @Kuya.6495 said:

> > @otto.5684 said:

> > > @Kuya.6495 said:

> > > I think rev has a hard time coming back because the meta is still condi. Condi rev would be the response to that but i hear revs say it's not competitive. How would you guys make condi rev a more competitive spec to use? keep in mind, it should have weaknesses. so while condi rev should be strong vs condi classes, it shoulf be weak to power to balance it with power Herald.

> >

> > I play condi rev. I am by no means an expert but the issues I have:

> >

> > 1. Over reliance on resistance to fight condis. If it is stripped (which never happens!) you are toast.

> > 2. Less access to evades, since you do not use Shiro and you either sacrifice staff or sword. It is not terribly bad, but I run into issues with focus fire, more than other classes/builds I typically play.

> > 3. No access to stability outside of retribution and on evade. It is a bad mechanic all together. CC break is good but costs 30 energy :/

> > 4. Damage is too much melee target based AOE. This can be good or bad depending on the situation, but fighting highly evasive classes is difficult. And staying in melee sometimes is difficult

> > 5. TBH, any time I switch out of Mallyx I am at a disadvantage due to some of the above, but considering how energy management is, you have no choice but to switch sometimes.

> >

> > And that is without Renegade. Renegade has less sustain, less evades, no mobility and you get.. well.. a mediocre ranged weapon and a dance crew!

>

> Is going mallyx/herald with shield not a good way to fix the sustain issues? I know the stability and stunbreak problems aren't fixed by herald though.

 

I do use Herald + sword/shield. Issue is unlike power, you do not want to use sword for too long, cuz you lose too much damage if you do. Then you obviously missing staff and mace/axe is not a good survivability combo.

 

It kinda works, but not against all classes. Though power rev with sword/shield + staff is more survivable against power damage. To be honest, the issues I face in terms of survivability tends to be more against condi builds, if you get condi nuked, and resistance is stripped, you are toast.

[BeepBoopBop.5403]

> @Razor.6392 said:

> Power rev remains as one of the most overtuned (in the right situations) spec ever introduced. I might get some flak by saying this but being weak to condis doesn't mean a class with so many defenses and utility built into their offense is balanced. I hope they never get buffed.

 

Over tuned? 900 crit precision strike projectile over tuned? 3k equilibrium that cost 50 energy over tuned? Surge of the mist nerfed 15% 15% and 50% over tuned?

 

L2P problem if I ever saw one. You and everyone that refused to L2P vs a power rev are the reason it's in this state lol. And here you are STILL complaining that it's somehow OP on a thread where everyone agrees revenant is dead in this meta.

 

"So many defenses" it has 2 predictable blocks (in a meta with many unblockables), and one defensively designed evade that is Riposting Shadows. And all of these defenses have been nerfed!

 

So defense has been nerfed, damage has been nerfed, shit if it's still OP to you then you won't be happy til the class is removed from the game. Which judging from your last sentence sounds right, L2 F U C K I N G play.

[Buran.3796]

> @Kuya.6495 said:

> I think rev has a hard time coming back because the meta is still condi. Condi rev would be the response to that but i hear revs say it's not competitive. How would you guys make condi rev a more competitive spec to use?

 

You can't. Condi Rev is weaker than power Herald: does more AoE damage over time but has less burst damage, mobility and survability. Needs team support in a game mode thar rarely provides it. Needs stability and tankiness to do damage over time, but Shiro provides more survability than Jalis. And for the Renegade is even worse because Kalla is useless in PvP and the short bow lacks any defensive or mobility tool (and also, does near to no pressure due its low damage), so any other weapon combo is stronger.

 

So, you can play power Herald, which offers strong burst, good AoE cleave damage, mobility and survability at the cost of being weak to conditions, which can be "fixed" with stellar skills "reading" the enemies, or you can play condi Rev/Renegade, which does bigger AoE damage but dies as soon as you are focused if your team doesn't provide inmediate sustain.

 

To be honest isn't as bad: most of the PoF specs are worse than power Herald.

[MatthiasL.5346]

While I manage to make it work and get good results with power/herald build, it's like playing handicapped. It takes way more effort in comparison to other specs like sb/ scourge and isn't nearly as effective as mentioned builds. If there are like two condi specs in enemy team, I have to reroll to another class otherwise rev will melt against their condi spam.

[Loboling.5293]

Herald is still viable in some comps. It's very strong at time, and can easily 1v1 spellbreakers. In fact, it's pretty dang strong in 1v1. However, there are some comps that make herald worthless. Still, a decent class, and will be much better once they balance some of the new cheese. (like how spellbreaker will always trigger counter in team fights causing massive damage even if you stop attacking, which often brings a bunch of condis if you get hit) It's strange to say, but I find classes like scourge and spellbreaker easier to solo than to fight outnumbered. (scourge less so) But I'll do better against a spellbreaker 1v1 than I would 2 or even 3v1. I always get frustrated when people come to help +1 my herald vs a spellbreaker. Even condi mirage can be taken down 1v1. (but it can easily go the other way)

 

When you switch to spellbreaker after playing herald though, it feels quite silly in team fights, while being pretty close in 1v1 potential.