solarisnox.8521 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 > @Ayrilana.1396 said: > > @solarisnox.8521 said: > > > @Ayrilana.1396 said: > > > > @Khisanth.2948 said: > > > > > @Ayrilana.1396 said: > > > > > > @Pifil.5193 said: > > > > > > > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > > > > > > > @Pifil.5193 said: > > > > > > > > > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > > > > > > > > > As for me, between yesterday and this morning I opened over 4500 bags with 500% magic find and got none of the weapons needed for collections. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raw value of selling these without identification is around 50g+ What you got from identifying and salvaging is probably worth more getting you even closer to 100g needed for buying it from TP. So if your RNG is not working for you, you can always buy it with gold you make while hunting for these exotics. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Where's the issue? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Erm. The issue is that they gated a collection through a low drop exotic that will likely have to be bought on the TP rather than earned through play. It's not about whether I recouped my losses from buying those 4500 bags (I didn't, btw, down a little gold but not much). Or even the time wasted in opening that junk. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also you know you need more than one weapon to complete the collections, of course. You need 6, ~100g will get you one. Quick maths will tell you roughly what to expect for the others. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > These collections are not essential for your gameplay. They offer ascended weapon with unique skin, it's only your choice to make them. They are not required in any way, just like you don't require precursor in this game to play it. If you can't afford spec weapon, craft cheapest ascended counterpart needed for your build. > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh the "you don't need to do it" argument. You don't _need_ to do _anything_ in this game. Therefore _everything_ is fine. Right. > > > > > > > > > > > > You may buy that but personally I've always thought that was the weakest argument ever brought up (time and again) on these forums and once again completely ignores the point. Also, I could buy them on the TP, I have the gold but again that's ignoring the point that "they gated a collection through a low drop exotic that will likely have to be bought on the TP rather than earned through play". > > > > > > > > > > I always found that counter argument to be the weakest argument ever brought up. It’s optional as it has no impact on the game itself. > > > > > > > > but then the entire game is optional > > > > > > And? Of course the entire game is optional so what’s your point? Exaggerating an argument to the point of ridiculousness in the way you just did doesn’t accomplish anything. > > > > > > Completing those collections are optional as you only lose out on the associated skins and AP. None of these are required in any way to actually play the game. The ascended weapons themselves can still be crafted. > > > > that same argument works the other way: if the weapons were tied to achievements and/or repeatable story content, you could simpley *choose* not to play them, right? no need to play something you don't enjoy, right? it's all *optional*. > > > > The difference is, though, that the vast majority of the community would not be at the greedy whim of a tiny handful of players like you. > > Nice personal attack on me as well as being an uninformed assumption. Any extra weapons that I had were sold off over a month ago. > So you admit, then, that you have had named exotics on the tp, from which you extorted a hefty profit, which as I think my previous post suggested, makes clear why you are so heavily weighted in your argument for this method of collection item acquisition. So I guess my assumptions weren't as uninformed as you'd like to make people believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solarisnox.8521 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 > @Cyninja.2954 said: > People are buthurt for not buying the weapons when they were 20-25g (yeah life is unfair, I didn't get mine at sub 60g too and most at 65-75g). Now supply has decreased (less people playing PoF, Halloween drawing a lot of farmers away) and demand has increased (as more and more people start doing the collections after finishing the story). This might improce after Halloween or not, we shall see. > > The price asked for on the TP is a function of this current supply and demand. Obviously enough people are willing and able to buy the weapons at this price. Individuals who are unwilling and/or unable to pay the price are merely lower in there tolerance or more price sensitive. There is nothing "unacceptable" about this since quite a few people are willing to pay these prices. Personal preferance of unique individuals does matter to the market. On top of that, arenanet gave everyone a collection they can use to get their first skin (or even sell it). > > The main benefit of finishing the collection is the AP and a unique skin. Ascended gear can be aquired cheaper via other methods. > > If you want the AP and skin, farm the gold and buy them or wait until one drops for you. At the current price these are by far not the most expensive achievements for the amount of AP gained and many other skins are far more expensive too. > > None of the collections is required or mandatory to enjoy the game. That's merely your OCD talking. > > Arenanet might have just as well made this some type of crafting requirement (same as for HoT) and people would be up in arms about the price of the materials spiking on the TP. Actually, as I've pointed out previously, while I do contest the current cost, and yes, I suppose if I wait a year or two the price will probably come down some, but that isn't really my argument. I have the gold to buy them, and anyone who knows me, knows I don't have any problems spending my gold. The issue is not the gold, it's the method of acquisition. It's the idea of saying: "here, here's this collection that you can achieve all on your own, with your own effort...and...PSYCH...except that you'll be forced to *either* farm your life away for endless hours doing the same content over and over and over until you want to braid your own teeth with boredom, *or* : you can farm your life away for endless hours to make the gold to buy the item from some other guy who is way more lucky than you". your mention of "OCD" is both insulting and degrading to those who actually have ocd. Some of us simply like to complete achievements without being obsessive or compulsive about it, and some of us actually *think* about how certain changes to one aspect of the game might adversely affect other aspects of the game, such as taking what has historically been an achievement that could be done without *having* to buy off the tp at over inflated prices and creating an environment ripe for a tiny handful of people to monopolize a market niche and extort the entire rest of the community, and how that might affect future expansions and the health and viability of the overall economy, and the happiness and satisfaction of the overall player base. And this false argument about "none of this or that is required or mandatory to enjoy the game" is a bullshit argument, and you know it. What is mandatory to enjoy the game is whatever the player wants to have to enjoy the game. If the player wants a certain skin, or a certain item, then that is what it will take to make the game enjoyable to that player. I could not give a crap about the legendary armor, but to some people, they absolutely *have* to have it, *to enjoy the game*. So the idea that anything that anyone wants is not necessary to enjoy the game is false, please stop trying to use it to justify your disagreement simply because you have no better argument to present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanner Blackfeather.6509 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 > @solarisnox.8521 said: > > Because apparently you missed the post where someone did that exact thing with 4500 unidentified items and didn't get a single named exotic weapon. Probably because magic find has no effect on "identifying". Obviously you have yourself missed the research done that *clearly* shows that magic find affects the results. A couple different people have reported their trials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 > @solarisnox.8521 said: > > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > People are buthurt for not buying the weapons when they were 20-25g (yeah life is unfair, I didn't get mine at sub 60g too and most at 65-75g). Now supply has decreased (less people playing PoF, Halloween drawing a lot of farmers away) and demand has increased (as more and more people start doing the collections after finishing the story). This might improce after Halloween or not, we shall see. > > > > The price asked for on the TP is a function of this current supply and demand. Obviously enough people are willing and able to buy the weapons at this price. Individuals who are unwilling and/or unable to pay the price are merely lower in there tolerance or more price sensitive. There is nothing "unacceptable" about this since quite a few people are willing to pay these prices. Personal preferance of unique individuals does matter to the market. On top of that, arenanet gave everyone a collection they can use to get their first skin (or even sell it). > > > > The main benefit of finishing the collection is the AP and a unique skin. Ascended gear can be aquired cheaper via other methods. > > > > If you want the AP and skin, farm the gold and buy them or wait until one drops for you. At the current price these are by far not the most expensive achievements for the amount of AP gained and many other skins are far more expensive too. > > > > None of the collections is required or mandatory to enjoy the game. That's merely your OCD talking. > > > > Arenanet might have just as well made this some type of crafting requirement (same as for HoT) and people would be up in arms about the price of the materials spiking on the TP. > > Some of us simply like to complete achievements without being obsessive or compulsive about it, and some of us actually *think* about how certain changes to one aspect of the game might adversely affect other aspects of the game, such as taking what has historically been an achievement that could be done without *having* to buy off the tp at over inflated prices and creating an environment ripe for a tiny handful of people to monopolize a market niche and extort the entire rest of the community, and how that might affect future expansions and the health and viability of the overall economy, and the happiness and satisfaction of the overall player base. > You have yet to show that prices on the TP are inflated. Stop saying things which you can't prove. Also all official communication in the past on people manipulating or hoging the market by arenanet clearly points towards: it's not really possible with the amount of participants on the TP and if done ends withing minutes or hours. Paying gold for getting the weapons is no different than with the HoT collection and it requiring a mystic weapon as well as other gold sinks. The only difference is, it's now not tied to crafting materials, it remains a gold sink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper Cutter.9376 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 > @Cyninja.2954 said: > You have yet to show that prices on the TP are inflated. Prices as of this post: **Abasi's Envenomed Cleaver: 87g** **Darehk's Quick End: 86g** Jahdugar's Syllabus: 5g The Castellan's Quality: 5g Dume's Gilded Smasher: 3g Kina's Warning Shot: 5g **Libeh's Truthteller: 90g** **Kadash's Riding Bow: 85g** Sogolon's Purifier: 5g Shorewatcher's Backup: 5g **Raidmarshal Bayonet: 88g** Odurra's Magnificence: 6g Suti's Hexbreaker: 9g **Nagozi's Enchanted Lamp: 91g** Mothusi's Echoing Voice: 3g Timera's Shield of Good Cheer: 6g All these weapons have the same drop rate and come from the same sources, and most of them have settled remarkably close to each other with a few important and relevant exceptions. You could buy all _ten_ of the others for the price of _one_ of the weapons needed for the collection, the price is absolutely inflated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrilana.1396 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 > @solarisnox.8521 said: > > @Ayrilana.1396 said: > > > @solarisnox.8521 said: > > > > @Ayrilana.1396 said: > > > > > @Khisanth.2948 said: > > > > > > @Ayrilana.1396 said: > > > > > > > @Pifil.5193 said: > > > > > > > > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > > > > > > > > @Pifil.5193 said: > > > > > > > > > > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > > > > > > > > > > As for me, between yesterday and this morning I opened over 4500 bags with 500% magic find and got none of the weapons needed for collections. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raw value of selling these without identification is around 50g+ What you got from identifying and salvaging is probably worth more getting you even closer to 100g needed for buying it from TP. So if your RNG is not working for you, you can always buy it with gold you make while hunting for these exotics. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Where's the issue? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Erm. The issue is that they gated a collection through a low drop exotic that will likely have to be bought on the TP rather than earned through play. It's not about whether I recouped my losses from buying those 4500 bags (I didn't, btw, down a little gold but not much). Or even the time wasted in opening that junk. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also you know you need more than one weapon to complete the collections, of course. You need 6, ~100g will get you one. Quick maths will tell you roughly what to expect for the others. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > These collections are not essential for your gameplay. They offer ascended weapon with unique skin, it's only your choice to make them. They are not required in any way, just like you don't require precursor in this game to play it. If you can't afford spec weapon, craft cheapest ascended counterpart needed for your build. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh the "you don't need to do it" argument. You don't _need_ to do _anything_ in this game. Therefore _everything_ is fine. Right. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You may buy that but personally I've always thought that was the weakest argument ever brought up (time and again) on these forums and once again completely ignores the point. Also, I could buy them on the TP, I have the gold but again that's ignoring the point that "they gated a collection through a low drop exotic that will likely have to be bought on the TP rather than earned through play". > > > > > > > > > > > > I always found that counter argument to be the weakest argument ever brought up. It’s optional as it has no impact on the game itself. > > > > > > > > > > but then the entire game is optional > > > > > > > > And? Of course the entire game is optional so what’s your point? Exaggerating an argument to the point of ridiculousness in the way you just did doesn’t accomplish anything. > > > > > > > > Completing those collections are optional as you only lose out on the associated skins and AP. None of these are required in any way to actually play the game. The ascended weapons themselves can still be crafted. > > > > > > that same argument works the other way: if the weapons were tied to achievements and/or repeatable story content, you could simpley *choose* not to play them, right? no need to play something you don't enjoy, right? it's all *optional*. > > > > > > The difference is, though, that the vast majority of the community would not be at the greedy whim of a tiny handful of players like you. > > > > Nice personal attack on me as well as being an uninformed assumption. Any extra weapons that I had were sold off over a month ago. > > > So you admit, then, that you have had named exotics on the tp, from which you extorted a hefty profit, which as I think my previous post suggested, makes clear why you are so heavily weighted in your argument for this method of collection item acquisition. > So I guess my assumptions weren't as uninformed as you'd like to make people believe. > > > > > It’s not extortion to sell something on the TP. Quit trying to demonize those who do sell excess stuff in there. And yes, your assumption is still uninformed. Edit: Selling excess weapons on the TP does not make someone bad. If you were to get the dagger named weapon after having already unlocked it, would you sell it on the TP? If so then I guess that means you’re “extorting” players. Would you sell it considerably lower than the existing price to a point where it’s not “extorting” players? Probably not. It’s extremely rare that people would intentionally do that and they’re also limited by the buy orders. The prices are not influenced by a single player but instead by all players. Supply is dictated by how many people are playing PoF maps which is very low atm due to Halloween. The demand for the weapons is dictated by those that are going for the collections which seems to still be a fairly large amount of players. All you seem to be doing is pointing blame and demonizing players who are just selling something they do not need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanner Blackfeather.6509 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 > @"Hyper Cutter.9376" said: > > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > You have yet to show that prices on the TP are inflated. > > Prices as of this post: > **Abasi's Envenomed Cleaver: 87g** > **Darehk's Quick End: 86g** > Jahdugar's Syllabus: 5g > The Castellan's Quality: 5g > Dume's Gilded Smasher: 3g > Kina's Warning Shot: 5g > **Libeh's Truthteller: 90g** > **Kadash's Riding Bow: 85g** > Sogolon's Purifier: 5g > Shorewatcher's Backup: 5g > **Raidmarshal Bayonet: 88g** > Odurra's Magnificence: 6g > Suti's Hexbreaker: 9g > **Nagozi's Enchanted Lamp: 91g** > Mothusi's Echoing Voice: 3g > Timera's Shield of Good Cheer: 6g > > All these weapons have the same drop rate and come from the same sources, and most of them have settled remarkably close to each other with a few important and relevant exceptions. You could buy all _ten_ of the others for the price of _one_ of the weapons needed for the collection, the price is absolutely inflated. That's not prices being artifically inflated. That is demand for specific items being drastically higher than others while supply is simillar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayakaru.6583 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 > @"Hyper Cutter.9376" said: > > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > You have yet to show that prices on the TP are inflated. > > Prices as of this post: > **Abasi's Envenomed Cleaver: 87g** > **Darehk's Quick End: 86g** > Jahdugar's Syllabus: 5g > The Castellan's Quality: 5g > Dume's Gilded Smasher: 3g > Kina's Warning Shot: 5g > **Libeh's Truthteller: 90g** > **Kadash's Riding Bow: 85g** > Sogolon's Purifier: 5g > Shorewatcher's Backup: 5g > **Raidmarshal Bayonet: 88g** > Odurra's Magnificence: 6g > Suti's Hexbreaker: 9g > **Nagozi's Enchanted Lamp: 91g** > Mothusi's Echoing Voice: 3g > Timera's Shield of Good Cheer: 6g > > All these weapons have the same drop rate and come from the same sources, and most of them have settled remarkably close to each other with a few important and relevant exceptions. You could buy all _ten_ of the others for the price of _one_ of the weapons needed for the collection, the price is absolutely inflated. Exactly my question, how come they all have the same drop rate, but the named weapons are almost 20x pricier? If I buy and identify a skrittload of unidrares, i might just be lucky enough to get one no one wants Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanner Blackfeather.6509 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 > @Ayakaru.6583 said: > > @"Hyper Cutter.9376" said: > > > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > > You have yet to show that prices on the TP are inflated. > > > > Prices as of this post: > > **Abasi's Envenomed Cleaver: 87g** > > **Darehk's Quick End: 86g** > > Jahdugar's Syllabus: 5g > > The Castellan's Quality: 5g > > Dume's Gilded Smasher: 3g > > Kina's Warning Shot: 5g > > **Libeh's Truthteller: 90g** > > **Kadash's Riding Bow: 85g** > > Sogolon's Purifier: 5g > > Shorewatcher's Backup: 5g > > **Raidmarshal Bayonet: 88g** > > Odurra's Magnificence: 6g > > Suti's Hexbreaker: 9g > > **Nagozi's Enchanted Lamp: 91g** > > Mothusi's Echoing Voice: 3g > > Timera's Shield of Good Cheer: 6g > > > > All these weapons have the same drop rate and come from the same sources, and most of them have settled remarkably close to each other with a few important and relevant exceptions. You could buy all _ten_ of the others for the price of _one_ of the weapons needed for the collection, the price is absolutely inflated. > > Exactly my question, how come they all have the same drop rate, but the named weapons are almost 20x pricier? > If I buy and identify a skrittload of unidrares, i might just be lucky enough to get one no one wants Same Supply and different **Demand**. Compare the Lightward's Battlestaff and Lightward's Battlehammer. Same source, no reason to suspect different droprates, yet staff is 10+ times as expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zakka.2153 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 I think they should boost the chances of getting these named exotics from Unidentified items, so there is a reason to go to PoF to grind them out. Or have another way of collecting them similar to how HoT weapons worked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 > @"Hyper Cutter.9376" said: > > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > You have yet to show that prices on the TP are inflated. > > Prices as of this post: > **Abasi's Envenomed Cleaver: 87g** > **Darehk's Quick End: 86g** > Jahdugar's Syllabus: 5g > The Castellan's Quality: 5g > Dume's Gilded Smasher: 3g > Kina's Warning Shot: 5g > **Libeh's Truthteller: 90g** > **Kadash's Riding Bow: 85g** > Sogolon's Purifier: 5g > Shorewatcher's Backup: 5g > **Raidmarshal Bayonet: 88g** > Odurra's Magnificence: 6g > Suti's Hexbreaker: 9g > **Nagozi's Enchanted Lamp: 91g** > Mothusi's Echoing Voice: 3g > Timera's Shield of Good Cheer: 6g > > All these weapons have the same drop rate and come from the same sources, and most of them have settled remarkably close to each other with a few important and relevant exceptions. You could buy all _ten_ of the others for the price of _one_ of the weapons needed for the collection, the price is absolutely inflated. Do you understand supply and demand? All you have shown is that since supply will likely be similar accross all of the items, some of them are in way higher demand. These prices are absolutely 0 indication of any type of inflated pricing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rennie.6750 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 Saying that these weapons costing more than some precursors is fine is completely delusional. First, this collection isn't meant to be special content, it's meant to help players gear up for their new elite spec. Then, let's face it, the skins have nothing special. Yes they're new but they're just as good/fancy as any other skin. They're clearly not meant to be worth that much time investment. No special feature/lore justifies such a price. It clearly fails the intended purpose, which is providing a welfare ascended weapon given how easy other steps are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrilana.1396 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 > @Rennie.6750 said: > Saying that these weapons costing more than some precursors is fine is completely delusional. First, this collection isn't meant to be special content, it's meant to help players gear up for their new elite spec. Then, let's face it, the skins have nothing special. Yes they're new but they're just as good/fancy as any other skin. They're clearly not meant to be worth that much time investment. No special feature/lore justifies such a price. It clearly fails the intended purpose, which is providing a welfare ascended weapon given how easy other steps are. Can you prove that is their purpose? These weapons don’t cost more than any of the precursors except for maybe the water ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rennie.6750 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 > @Ayrilana.1396 said: > > @Rennie.6750 said: > > Saying that these weapons costing more than some precursors is fine is completely delusional. First, this collection isn't meant to be special content, it's meant to help players gear up for their new elite spec. Then, let's face it, the skins have nothing special. Yes they're new but they're just as good/fancy as any other skin. They're clearly not meant to be worth that much time investment. No special feature/lore justifies such a price. It clearly fails the intended purpose, which is providing a welfare ascended weapon given how easy other steps are. > > Can you prove that is their purpose? > > These weapons don’t cost more than any of the precursors except for maybe the water ones. Can you prove that this is the intended result? No. We can just guess. And I'm guessing that it's meant to be easy just like the 13 other steps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 > @Rennie.6750 said: > > @Ayrilana.1396 said: > > > @Rennie.6750 said: > > > Saying that these weapons costing more than some precursors is fine is completely delusional. First, this collection isn't meant to be special content, it's meant to help players gear up for their new elite spec. Then, let's face it, the skins have nothing special. Yes they're new but they're just as good/fancy as any other skin. They're clearly not meant to be worth that much time investment. No special feature/lore justifies such a price. It clearly fails the intended purpose, which is providing a welfare ascended weapon given how easy other steps are. > > > > Can you prove that is their purpose? > > > > These weapons don’t cost more than any of the precursors except for maybe the water ones. > > Can you prove that this is the intended result? No. We can just guess. And I'm guessing that it's meant to be easy just like the 13 other steps. The burden of proof lies not with me. The burden of proof lies with the side which argues that the market is not functioning properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shirlias.8104 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 > @Rennie.6750 said: > Saying that these weapons costing more than some precursors is fine is completely delusional. First, this collection isn't meant to be special content, **it's meant to help players gear up for their new elite spec**. Your own interpretation >Then, let's face it, the skins have nothing special. Yes they're new but they're just as good/fancy as any other skin. They're clearly not meant to be worth that much time investment. Depends 1. their rarity 2. the purpose ( achievement collection? achievement + reward? ) 3. if you want em or not. For me the great chainsword is not worth that much time, as many leggies, but still its price is high. > No special feature/lore justifies such a price. It clearly fails the intended purpose, which is providing a welfare ascended weapon given how easy other steps are. As previously, it's your point of view. Don't Want? Don't Get. I am glad they are the way they are cause i made golds with em, but still i can understand that they could have though about another way to get em ( through drop and through craft for an instance ). And through craft wouldn't mean 10g value. it could mean also 60 or 100g value, but still another way to get em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanze.8410 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 > @Ayrilana.1396 said: > > @solarisnox.8521 said: > > > @Ayrilana.1396 said: > > > > @solarisnox.8521 said: > > > > > @Ayrilana.1396 said: > > > > > > @Khisanth.2948 said: > > > > > > > @Ayrilana.1396 said: > > > > > > > > @Pifil.5193 said: > > > > > > > > > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > > > > > > > > > @Pifil.5193 said: > > > > > > > > > > > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > > > > > > > > > > > As for me, between yesterday and this morning I opened over 4500 bags with 500% magic find and got none of the weapons needed for collections. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raw value of selling these without identification is around 50g+ What you got from identifying and salvaging is probably worth more getting you even closer to 100g needed for buying it from TP. So if your RNG is not working for you, you can always buy it with gold you make while hunting for these exotics. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Where's the issue? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Erm. The issue is that they gated a collection through a low drop exotic that will likely have to be bought on the TP rather than earned through play. It's not about whether I recouped my losses from buying those 4500 bags (I didn't, btw, down a little gold but not much). Or even the time wasted in opening that junk. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also you know you need more than one weapon to complete the collections, of course. You need 6, ~100g will get you one. Quick maths will tell you roughly what to expect for the others. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > These collections are not essential for your gameplay. They offer ascended weapon with unique skin, it's only your choice to make them. They are not required in any way, just like you don't require precursor in this game to play it. If you can't afford spec weapon, craft cheapest ascended counterpart needed for your build. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh the "you don't need to do it" argument. You don't _need_ to do _anything_ in this game. Therefore _everything_ is fine. Right. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You may buy that but personally I've always thought that was the weakest argument ever brought up (time and again) on these forums and once again completely ignores the point. Also, I could buy them on the TP, I have the gold but again that's ignoring the point that "they gated a collection through a low drop exotic that will likely have to be bought on the TP rather than earned through play". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I always found that counter argument to be the weakest argument ever brought up. It’s optional as it has no impact on the game itself. > > > > > > > > > > > > but then the entire game is optional > > > > > > > > > > And? Of course the entire game is optional so what’s your point? Exaggerating an argument to the point of ridiculousness in the way you just did doesn’t accomplish anything. > > > > > > > > > > Completing those collections are optional as you only lose out on the associated skins and AP. None of these are required in any way to actually play the game. The ascended weapons themselves can still be crafted. > > > > > > > > that same argument works the other way: if the weapons were tied to achievements and/or repeatable story content, you could simpley *choose* not to play them, right? no need to play something you don't enjoy, right? it's all *optional*. > > > > > > > > The difference is, though, that the vast majority of the community would not be at the greedy whim of a tiny handful of players like you. > > > > > > Nice personal attack on me as well as being an uninformed assumption. Any extra weapons that I had were sold off over a month ago. > > > > > So you admit, then, that you have had named exotics on the tp, from which you extorted a hefty profit, which as I think my previous post suggested, makes clear why you are so heavily weighted in your argument for this method of collection item acquisition. > > So I guess my assumptions weren't as uninformed as you'd like to make people believe. > > > > > > > > > > > > It’s not extortion to sell something on the TP. Quit trying to demonize those who do sell excess stuff in there. And yes, your assumption is still uninformed. > > Edit: > > Selling excess weapons on the TP does not make someone bad. If you were to get the dagger named weapon after having already unlocked it, would you sell it on the TP? If so then I guess that means you’re “extorting” players. Would you sell it considerably lower than the existing price to a point where it’s not “extorting” players? Probably not. **It’s extremely rare that people would intentionally do that and they’re also limited by the buy orders.** > > The prices are not influenced by a single player but instead by all players. Supply is dictated by how many people are playing PoF maps which is very low atm due to Halloween. The demand for the weapons is dictated by those that are going for the collections which seems to still be a fairly large amount of players. > > All you seem to be doing is pointing blame and demonizing players who are just selling something they do not need. They actually arent limited by the value of the highest buy order anymore, if they want to sell an item for a lower price. If the highest bid is 75g for example and a seller thinks that is too much gold for the item, they can mark the highest bid of 75g, adjust the gold numbers from 75 to 50 manually and sell the item for 50g to the highest bidder, who will receive the item and the surplus 25g in his pick up tab. But I agree that most players that are arguing here that the prices are too high probably wouldnt do that, if they had an excess drop of that item. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanze.8410 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > @"Hyper Cutter.9376" said: > > > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > > You have yet to show that prices on the TP are inflated. > > > > Prices as of this post: > > **Abasi's Envenomed Cleaver: 87g** > > **Darehk's Quick End: 86g** > > Jahdugar's Syllabus: 5g > > The Castellan's Quality: 5g > > Dume's Gilded Smasher: 3g > > Kina's Warning Shot: 5g > > **Libeh's Truthteller: 90g** > > **Kadash's Riding Bow: 85g** > > Sogolon's Purifier: 5g > > Shorewatcher's Backup: 5g > > **Raidmarshal Bayonet: 88g** > > Odurra's Magnificence: 6g > > Suti's Hexbreaker: 9g > > **Nagozi's Enchanted Lamp: 91g** > > Mothusi's Echoing Voice: 3g > > Timera's Shield of Good Cheer: 6g > > > > All these weapons have the same drop rate and come from the same sources, and most of them have settled remarkably close to each other with a few important and relevant exceptions. You could buy all _ten_ of the others for the price of _one_ of the weapons needed for the collection, the price is absolutely inflated. > > Do you understand supply and demand? All you have shown is that since supply will likely be similar accross all of the items, some of them are in way higher demand. > > These prices are absolutely 0 indication of any type of inflated pricing. All they have shown is that those skins with the same additional demand for the collections, are actually quite balanced in their value with all 6 of them varying less than 10% in value from each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrilana.1396 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 > @Wanze.8410 said: > > @Ayrilana.1396 said: > > > @solarisnox.8521 said: > > > > @Ayrilana.1396 said: > > > > > @solarisnox.8521 said: > > > > > > @Ayrilana.1396 said: > > > > > > > @Khisanth.2948 said: > > > > > > > > @Ayrilana.1396 said: > > > > > > > > > @Pifil.5193 said: > > > > > > > > > > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > > > > > > > > > > @Pifil.5193 said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > As for me, between yesterday and this morning I opened over 4500 bags with 500% magic find and got none of the weapons needed for collections. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raw value of selling these without identification is around 50g+ What you got from identifying and salvaging is probably worth more getting you even closer to 100g needed for buying it from TP. So if your RNG is not working for you, you can always buy it with gold you make while hunting for these exotics. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Where's the issue? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Erm. The issue is that they gated a collection through a low drop exotic that will likely have to be bought on the TP rather than earned through play. It's not about whether I recouped my losses from buying those 4500 bags (I didn't, btw, down a little gold but not much). Or even the time wasted in opening that junk. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also you know you need more than one weapon to complete the collections, of course. You need 6, ~100g will get you one. Quick maths will tell you roughly what to expect for the others. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > These collections are not essential for your gameplay. They offer ascended weapon with unique skin, it's only your choice to make them. They are not required in any way, just like you don't require precursor in this game to play it. If you can't afford spec weapon, craft cheapest ascended counterpart needed for your build. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh the "you don't need to do it" argument. You don't _need_ to do _anything_ in this game. Therefore _everything_ is fine. Right. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You may buy that but personally I've always thought that was the weakest argument ever brought up (time and again) on these forums and once again completely ignores the point. Also, I could buy them on the TP, I have the gold but again that's ignoring the point that "they gated a collection through a low drop exotic that will likely have to be bought on the TP rather than earned through play". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I always found that counter argument to be the weakest argument ever brought up. It’s optional as it has no impact on the game itself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > but then the entire game is optional > > > > > > > > > > > > And? Of course the entire game is optional so what’s your point? Exaggerating an argument to the point of ridiculousness in the way you just did doesn’t accomplish anything. > > > > > > > > > > > > Completing those collections are optional as you only lose out on the associated skins and AP. None of these are required in any way to actually play the game. The ascended weapons themselves can still be crafted. > > > > > > > > > > that same argument works the other way: if the weapons were tied to achievements and/or repeatable story content, you could simpley *choose* not to play them, right? no need to play something you don't enjoy, right? it's all *optional*. > > > > > > > > > > The difference is, though, that the vast majority of the community would not be at the greedy whim of a tiny handful of players like you. > > > > > > > > Nice personal attack on me as well as being an uninformed assumption. Any extra weapons that I had were sold off over a month ago. > > > > > > > So you admit, then, that you have had named exotics on the tp, from which you extorted a hefty profit, which as I think my previous post suggested, makes clear why you are so heavily weighted in your argument for this method of collection item acquisition. > > > So I guess my assumptions weren't as uninformed as you'd like to make people believe. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It’s not extortion to sell something on the TP. Quit trying to demonize those who do sell excess stuff in there. And yes, your assumption is still uninformed. > > > > Edit: > > > > Selling excess weapons on the TP does not make someone bad. If you were to get the dagger named weapon after having already unlocked it, would you sell it on the TP? If so then I guess that means you’re “extorting” players. Would you sell it considerably lower than the existing price to a point where it’s not “extorting” players? Probably not. **It’s extremely rare that people would intentionally do that and they’re also limited by the buy orders.** > > > > The prices are not influenced by a single player but instead by all players. Supply is dictated by how many people are playing PoF maps which is very low atm due to Halloween. The demand for the weapons is dictated by those that are going for the collections which seems to still be a fairly large amount of players. > > > > All you seem to be doing is pointing blame and demonizing players who are just selling something they do not need. > > They actually arent limited by the value of the highest buy order anymore, if they want to sell an item for a lower price. > > If the highest bid is 75g for example and a seller thinks that is too much gold for the item, they can mark the highest bid of 75g, adjust the gold numbers from 75 to 50 manually and sell the item for 50g to the highest bidder, who will receive the item and the surplus 25g in his pick up tab. > > But I agree that most players that are arguing here that the prices are too high probably wouldnt do that, if they had an excess drop of that item. Ah. I forgot the system worked like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nidome.1365 Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 Most named exotics that are not required for collections or other special purposes in core and HoT cost between 1g and 4g on the trading post. As has been mentioned by a number of people the cost of an item on the trading post is driven by supply. The cost of the named exotics that are not required for collections in PoF is between 3g and 9g. This suggests that the supply level of named exotics in PoF is on average 39% of that of named exotics in the rest of the game. As such the drop rate of named exotics in PoF should be increased by approx. 2.5x current to be consistent with the rest of the game. Obviously named exotics required for collections/precursors etc. will have a non-consistent higher demand rate based upon the popularity of the collection etc. they are part of than other named exotics which will impact their prices on a case by case basis which is why I used non-collection exotics for the comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solarisnox.8521 Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 > @Ayrilana.1396 said: > > @solarisnox.8521 said: > > > @Ayrilana.1396 said: > > > > @solarisnox.8521 said: > > > > > @Ayrilana.1396 said: > > > > > > @Khisanth.2948 said: > > > > > > > @Ayrilana.1396 said: > > > > > > > > @Pifil.5193 said: > > > > > > > > > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > > > > > > > > > @Pifil.5193 said: > > > > > > > > > > > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > > > > > > > > > > > As for me, between yesterday and this morning I opened over 4500 bags with 500% magic find and got none of the weapons needed for collections. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raw value of selling these without identification is around 50g+ What you got from identifying and salvaging is probably worth more getting you even closer to 100g needed for buying it from TP. So if your RNG is not working for you, you can always buy it with gold you make while hunting for these exotics. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Where's the issue? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Erm. The issue is that they gated a collection through a low drop exotic that will likely have to be bought on the TP rather than earned through play. It's not about whether I recouped my losses from buying those 4500 bags (I didn't, btw, down a little gold but not much). Or even the time wasted in opening that junk. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also you know you need more than one weapon to complete the collections, of course. You need 6, ~100g will get you one. Quick maths will tell you roughly what to expect for the others. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > These collections are not essential for your gameplay. They offer ascended weapon with unique skin, it's only your choice to make them. They are not required in any way, just like you don't require precursor in this game to play it. If you can't afford spec weapon, craft cheapest ascended counterpart needed for your build. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh the "you don't need to do it" argument. You don't _need_ to do _anything_ in this game. Therefore _everything_ is fine. Right. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You may buy that but personally I've always thought that was the weakest argument ever brought up (time and again) on these forums and once again completely ignores the point. Also, I could buy them on the TP, I have the gold but again that's ignoring the point that "they gated a collection through a low drop exotic that will likely have to be bought on the TP rather than earned through play". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I always found that counter argument to be the weakest argument ever brought up. It’s optional as it has no impact on the game itself. > > > > > > > > > > > > but then the entire game is optional > > > > > > > > > > And? Of course the entire game is optional so what’s your point? Exaggerating an argument to the point of ridiculousness in the way you just did doesn’t accomplish anything. > > > > > > > > > > Completing those collections are optional as you only lose out on the associated skins and AP. None of these are required in any way to actually play the game. The ascended weapons themselves can still be crafted. > > > > > > > > that same argument works the other way: if the weapons were tied to achievements and/or repeatable story content, you could simpley *choose* not to play them, right? no need to play something you don't enjoy, right? it's all *optional*. > > > > > > > > The difference is, though, that the vast majority of the community would not be at the greedy whim of a tiny handful of players like you. > > > > > > Nice personal attack on me as well as being an uninformed assumption. Any extra weapons that I had were sold off over a month ago. > > > > > So you admit, then, that you have had named exotics on the tp, from which you extorted a hefty profit, which as I think my previous post suggested, makes clear why you are so heavily weighted in your argument for this method of collection item acquisition. > > So I guess my assumptions weren't as uninformed as you'd like to make people believe. > > > > > > > > > > > > It’s not extortion to sell something on the TP. Quit trying to demonize those who do sell excess stuff in there. And yes, your assumption is still uninformed. > > Edit: > > Selling excess weapons on the TP does not make someone bad. If you were to get the dagger named weapon after having already unlocked it, would you sell it on the TP? If so then I guess that means you’re “extorting” players. Would you sell it considerably lower than the existing price to a point where it’s not “extorting” players? Probably not. It’s extremely rare that people would intentionally do that and they’re also limited by the buy orders. > > The prices are not influenced by a single player but instead by all players. Supply is dictated by how many people are playing PoF maps which is very low atm due to Halloween. The demand for the weapons is dictated by those that are going for the collections which seems to still be a fairly large amount of players. > > All you seem to be doing is pointing blame and demonizing players who are just selling something they do not need. I agree entirely that selling excess weapons is, in itself, not a bad thing. As I have pointed out several times, the issue is not the selling of weapons on the trading post. The issue is the fact that collection achievement iteyms that are tied to an elite spec are only available from the trading post, or endless hours of farming the same the same thing over and over and over...which I have, btw, done quite a lot of myself and still not gotten a single named exotic sunspear weapon. The ability to complete an elite spec weapon collection should not be dictated by the whim of some other player. Despite your protests, the fact is, that the prices are inflated. Will the prices go down in the dim and distant future? maybe. But that's not the point. The HoT elite spec weapons were quite expensive and time consuming to finish, but I wasn't forced to buy something from the trading post, to finish them. I've made this point several times, in several different ways, even with examples of alternate methods of acquisition. Your obsession on the price issue, and your intent on demonizing me, makes me wonder just how many named sunspear exotic weapons you really have on the tp, lol. No, I'm joking. Look, the fact is this: my issue with this system is the method of acquisition. That would be my issue regardless of the cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solarisnox.8521 Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > @solarisnox.8521 said: > > > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > > People are buthurt for not buying the weapons when they were 20-25g (yeah life is unfair, I didn't get mine at sub 60g too and most at 65-75g). Now supply has decreased (less people playing PoF, Halloween drawing a lot of farmers away) and demand has increased (as more and more people start doing the collections after finishing the story). This might improce after Halloween or not, we shall see. > > > > > > The price asked for on the TP is a function of this current supply and demand. Obviously enough people are willing and able to buy the weapons at this price. Individuals who are unwilling and/or unable to pay the price are merely lower in there tolerance or more price sensitive. There is nothing "unacceptable" about this since quite a few people are willing to pay these prices. Personal preferance of unique individuals does matter to the market. On top of that, arenanet gave everyone a collection they can use to get their first skin (or even sell it). > > > > > > The main benefit of finishing the collection is the AP and a unique skin. Ascended gear can be aquired cheaper via other methods. > > > > > > If you want the AP and skin, farm the gold and buy them or wait until one drops for you. At the current price these are by far not the most expensive achievements for the amount of AP gained and many other skins are far more expensive too. > > > > > > None of the collections is required or mandatory to enjoy the game. That's merely your OCD talking. > > > > > > Arenanet might have just as well made this some type of crafting requirement (same as for HoT) and people would be up in arms about the price of the materials spiking on the TP. > > > > Some of us simply like to complete achievements without being obsessive or compulsive about it, and some of us actually *think* about how certain changes to one aspect of the game might adversely affect other aspects of the game, such as taking what has historically been an achievement that could be done without *having* to buy off the tp at over inflated prices and creating an environment ripe for a tiny handful of people to monopolize a market niche and extort the entire rest of the community, and how that might affect future expansions and the health and viability of the overall economy, and the happiness and satisfaction of the overall player base. > > > > You have yet to show that prices on the TP are inflated. Stop saying things which you can't prove. Also all official communication in the past on people manipulating or hoging the market by arenanet clearly points towards: it's not really possible with the amount of participants on the TP and if done ends withing minutes or hours. > > Paying gold for getting the weapons is no different than with the HoT collection and it requiring a mystic weapon as well as other gold sinks. The only difference is, it's now not tied to crafting materials, it remains a gold sink. Do you remember when you could buy Spark for 20g? I do. I also know when it went from 20g to 350g in about an hour, because one of my former guildies was the guy who bought up every spark on the market, and then turned around and put them all back on the market at 350g, and the price just kept going up from there. Along with all the other precursors, all of which used to be less than 100g, were suddenly skyrocketing in price. And the market has never recovered. So, you show me the "facts" on how secure the market is from individuals or small groups of people manipulating the market with their hordes of gold. There are players who have tens of thousands of gold, and more, who are more than capable of manipulating the trading post, and do so all the time, because that is their version of fun. For some people it is the only thing about the game that they enjoy. My guildy was one of them. And btw, paying gold for an essential item as pretty much the only way it can be obtained is entirely different from the HoT elite spec weapon collections, as I've already pointed out several times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZerotheFang.5890 Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 i can say its hard to find these i wish it was just the normal sunspear versions or something we can craft instead of having to hope RNG drops the one we need. i only found the sword so far i really need the torch and axe cause i want those skins but i guess i just use my gold to get a better looking one, or work on the legendary one from season 3 i know its more gold but eh if drop rng a collection item i wait till something changes or class gets uber nerfed. heck i only got a mystic shield and greatsword done for the HoT ones and i really want those still but i never have gold cause of gearing alts still or working on some other thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikal.4921 Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 What is even the point of being able to craft the unnamed versions? They are the exact same thing in stats and appearance as the named ones. IMO, we should be able to use the crafted versions and just consider getting a named one to drop as a lucky break that saved us some mats or made us a few gold. IOW, tie the skin rather than the weapon to the collection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 > @Nidome.1365 said: > Most named exotics that are not required for collections or other special purposes in core and HoT cost between 1g and 4g on the trading post. > As has been mentioned by a number of people the cost of an item on the trading post is driven by supply. > The cost of the named exotics that are not required for collections in PoF is between 3g and 9g. This suggests that the supply level of named exotics in PoF is on average 39% of that of named exotics in the rest of the game. > As such the drop rate of named exotics in PoF should be increased by approx. 2.5x current to be consistent with the rest of the game. > Obviously named exotics required for collections/precursors etc. will have a non-consistent higher demand rate based upon the popularity of the collection etc. they are part of than other named exotics which will impact their prices on a case by case basis which is why I used non-collection exotics for the comparison. You only forgot 50% of the equation. Also the cost difference between PoF exotics and the rest of the game can also easily be explained via them being newer still and prices not having bottomed out. There is sufficient old exotics priced at 3-4g even after years. It's supply AND demand. Can people stop omiting one of both. That's not how pricing works. You can have infinatly low supply of an absolutely valuesless item, and the price will not increase. You can have very high supply of an even higher demanded item, and the price would still increase. Notice how the cost of materials spikes when new legendarys for example are added? Is that due to a sudden massive drop in supply, or due to a sudden shortterm strong increase in demand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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