Coolguy.8702 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 In conquest right now, by broken I mean in a way that makes pvp cancerous if there's even 1 on the other team and also needs heavy tuning for it to be considered balanced* EDIT: For those that keep asking, Renegade was left out on purpose as I haven't even seen one in unranked pvp and pretty much nobody even thinks it's ok let alone op Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aomine.5012 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 Scourge hands down. 2 "smart Scourges" (The one that don't stupidly stand in node and use terrain for their advantage) is enough to ruin a game for you. The smart one also don't eat Full Counter at all since it's quite easy to tell when it'd triggered as Scourge. A good Scourge should beat Spellbreaker any days if they don't eat their own condition because they don't know when Full Countered will be triggered and just spam their skills, so a smart Scourge has the advantage to counter another broken class which is Spellbreaker. (Other classes might not even be able to kill Spellbreaker, but Scourge definitely can if he bait and stall out the Berserker Stance duration. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exedore.6320 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 Going with spellbreaker over scourge. Scourge might be partly addressed by fixing the multi hit shade bug. However spellbreaker is much harder to address because it's working the way it was designed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duzik.9137 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 Voted for spellbreaker , cause scourge is countered by rangeds , ganks and can be outrotated , but spellbreaker is just very good in all aspects , team fights , 1v1s , rotations , outnumbers . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kumouta.4985 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 rock gazelle scourge can be stunned super easily and cant move well, spellbreaker... eh... well.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogmios.9473 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 Spellbreaker too, for the reasons mentioned above. Having played the last season as a Berserker, I have to say that Warrior always had an impressive toolkit. Back then, I felt like it was carrying me a little through Gold: passive stab, passive endure pain, long pulsing resistance, easy access to stab... I could 1v1 most classes without even outplaying them, if I made a mistake in a fight, I could easily recover from it. I did not die very often. But now Spellbreaker... Spellbreaker doubled down on that toolkit, it doubled everything that was making warrior powerful. It was already said, but unlike Scourge, the problem of Spellbreaker goes beyond numbers and fine tuning, it is in the design. The devs will have to be clever about how they handle it. Spellbreaker and Scourge remind me of season 1's Bunker Mesmer and Revenant respectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaShi.1368 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 I picked Scourge. Spellbreaker still has a lot of skills. Yes, they take forever to kill (and I'll put that at a close second), but you can survive them. Scourge is a nightmare of different damage types/bursts with no tells and tons of visual clutter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abelisk.4527 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 Deadeye is broken, as in, broken bad. :tongue: Sorry, cast my vote before you managed to edit the OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milan.9035 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 Lol renegade is not even on the list. Feels bad man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacobin.8509 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 Scourge is insanely broken due to the AOE spam. It requires very little work for massive returns. SB is also broken due to survivability but it requires slightly more effort such as landing single target, short range CCs to deal big damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malafaia.8903 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 Scourges can be lured to drop the bomb, they can be 1v1'oned if you play smart, if it's a smart Scourge they can be outrotated, they lack mobility and they lack defenses. And as a main Ranger i don't have much problems fighting them. Of course they can't stay the way it is because they're just untouchable to melee classes. But let's talk about Spellbreakers? These guys can do anything better than anyone (except melting you immediately, that's Scourges role). Playing my Burn DH or my Necro Reaper i, sometimes, try 1v1'ning them to learn more of the class and how to counter it. Problem is it's just impossible. If you are alone, you won't kill them, except if your opponent lack basic understanding of pvp mechanics, and if they're in a group fight they'll just spam full counter and it's gg. Commom scenario in sPvP at the momment: Scourge owns mid. Spellbreakers camp any point they want. They'll hold it forever, against one, two, three opponents till one teammate comes and finishes the fight (and i'm talking here about players who lack a lot of knowledge of the class, if they know how to play they will kill all the enemies alone). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZhouX.8742 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 > @Aomine.5012 said: > Scourge hands down. > 2 "smart Scourges" (The one that don't stupidly stand in node and use terrain for their advantage) is enough to ruin a game for you. > The smart one also don't eat Full Counter at all since it's quite easy to tell when it'd triggered as Scourge. > > A good Scourge should beat Spellbreaker any days if they don't eat their own condition because they don't know when Full Countered will be triggered and just spam their skills, so a smart Scourge has the advantage to counter another broken class which is Spellbreaker. (Other classes might not even be able to kill Spellbreaker, but Scourge definitely can if he bait and stall out the Berserker Stance duration. ) Except many things can beat scourge especially in 1v1s, like a good bound d/p thief , condi mirage, condi chrono with a moa, druid, dh .. Good players of course. I mean it's a very nice spec and obviously needs some adjustments but still has some obvious weaknesses. In groups it's obviously a different story, it can be given one of the things that makes it weak which is stability for their weakness of CC. But regarding full counter, yes , they will obviously know when full counter is activated but a good spellbreaker will purposely eat dmg to proc it for them, forcing dodges or forced to get hit by it - for this reason AOE is a weakness going against spellbreaker's full counter, other teammates are a weakness against full counter since it's an aoe effect. -------------------- But yea, out of the PoF specs alone it's hard to tell which is more busted between Spellbreaker and Scourge, they're both incredible strong and provide so much value to a team. I think in terms of counters, you may find core s/d thief being able to take spellbreaker, a stalemate between druid vs spellbreaker but what else would counter a truly good spellbreaker? Maybe d/p dash? I would think if you managed resistance extremely well, good cc control (their weakness really) and dodged important skills by a scourge, spellbreaker **could** come out on top of that match up. Maybe not though, they are complete cancer to melee classes. But then you talk about full conquest presence: 1. scourges lack mobility 2. can't rotate nearly as fast as a spellbreaker 3. need to be essentially babysat by a firebrand or ele 4. weak against specific classes in 1v1 (spellbreaker is less weak against those specific classes in 1v1) spellbreaker excels in all of this , so essentially they're both incredibly strong in their own way but I would say in terms of all-around presence , spellbreaker definitely wins by far. yes, it's great to have a scourge to nuke especially with a firebrand support/ele support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razor.6392 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 Voted spellbreaker. At least you can kill scourge in a 1v2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stand The Wall.6987 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 WEAVER CUZ LOLSPEC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ara.4569 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 I voted in anticipation, as if we were post balance patch. Bunker Firebrand is under the radar because it doesn't have flashy numbers but It's a support bunker on steroid that will feast on nerfs. Mirage is a close 2nd, with a spec that resemble s/d daredevil. Disgusting. Post "balance" meta might be even less "enjoyable" than now, unless the patch is half decent, which I __highly__ doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooglese.4860 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 Woah hey, Renegade isn't even on here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaga.7629 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 Until scourge gets shaved, they can't even start to work on spellbreaker in a sane way. Easiest "fix" would be to put it back on a 8 second recharge like beta weekend, but now that the lynchmob is out there i fear it will get overnerfed to spectalular levels of dumbness. And then war mains lose, yet again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khenzy.9348 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 Spellbreaker, easily. -They counter rangers (and other classes) way too hard. -They have the greatest amount of good match ups. Their ONLY soft-counter is Scourge, actually. -They last longer than the greatest bunkers WITH A DPS AMULET against many current specs making them stupid hard to kill 2v1 in certain scenarios, all the while doing high DPS. Full counter is one of the most broken and overpowered skills this game has ever had. Couple that with Warrior's recent survivability buffs in the strength line that allows them to dodge more than daredevils or with just core warrior high sustain and you have an OP combo. Scourge dies decently quickly when focus fired and is only an issue when stacked or supported by a guardian or an ele. But when that happens, it's still an issue. Their damage and boon corruption are both too oppressive and in need of a significant nerf. > @Ara.4569 said: > I voted in anticipation, as if we were post balance patch. > > Bunker Firebrand is under the radar because it doesn't have flashy numbers but It's a support bunker on steroid that will feast on nerfs. > Mirage is a close 2nd, with a spec that resemble s/d daredevil. Disgusting. > > Post "balance" meta might be even less "enjoyable" than now, unless the patch is half decent, which I __highly__ doubt. Indeed. Bunker Firebrand and condi Mirage are both flying under the radar and I promise you that if both don't recieve some shaves this coming balance patch, they are next in line for the complaints train. Mirage can instantly apply like 15 to 18 stacks of confusion and insta down you if you're not careful and other high and constant confusion, torment and bleed stacks a little too often during a fight. They are really strong on power specs too. Bunker Firebrand seems to be a support Tempest on steroids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amityel.5324 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 i dont mind nerfing condi mirage a bit I love power mirage since it requires positioning and some sort of skills........when I hop on condi mirage it carrys me alone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unholy Pillager.3791 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 > @Kumouta.4985 said: > rock gazelle > > scourge can be stunned super easily and cant move well, spellbreaker... > eh... > well.. I've been killed like twice by that because moving makes it miss and because it doesn't work properly without sic em and build sacrifices. Want to guess how many times I've been killed by Scourge despite using a full cleanse along with 2+ other condi removal skills? I'll give you a hint: if it's not in the triple digits yet, it will be soon. There just is no comparison; one is deadly all of the time, the other only once every 40 seconds or so (and not even reliably at that). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aomine.5012 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 > @"Unholy Pillager.3791" said: > > @Kumouta.4985 said: > > rock gazelle > > > > scourge can be stunned super easily and cant move well, spellbreaker... > > eh... > > well.. > > I've been killed like twice by that because moving makes it miss and because it doesn't work properly without sic em and build sacrifices. Want to guess how many times I've been killed by Scourge despite using a full cleanse along with 2+ other condi removal skills? I'll give you a hint: if it's not in the triple digits yet, it will be soon. There just is no comparison; one is deadly all of the time, the other only once every 40 seconds or so (and not even reliably at that). I played 50 games in 2 days and have yet to be killed by any ranger throughout any matches. Donnu what people make such a big deal about, when duo Scourges are killing everyone within seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LUST.7241 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 Anet even said Scourge was overtuned, not even sure why people argue against it. >Sorry – it is NOT intended that stacking multiple shades compounds their effects. We’re going to make changes while keeping a close eye on the power of the Scourge across game modes and adjust it over time accordingly. Frankly, the Sand Shades were one of the most controversial (and dangerous!) mechanics we added with the Path of Fire Elite Specs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vyrulisse.1246 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 Scourge. Anyone who says otherwise is either a Scourge player or just trying to be different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witcher.3197 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 Spellbreaker and Scourge are equally broken, but scourge can be killed while spellbreaker is nearly immortal. That shit pushes close, you +1 it and he may just 1v2 you.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zephyra.4709 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 Scourge. AoE point and click, boon corruption condi-galore. Offers too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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