Lotus Bane.9387 Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 Hey there everyone, I was curious about Scourge. When it was first released, I was having a good time with power Scourge every now and then. Is power Scourge still viable in PvE? Or is condi Scourge just dominating everything? Also, I'm aware that you can sort of play anything you want in PvE, but I am still interested in viability. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drarnor Kunoram.5180 Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 In PvE, Scourge isn't really viable for most content. You now have to make the choice of your F skills being at your shades or at yourself. For anything that requires any movement at all, you can no longer place shades. This basically relegates it to just open world and a couple of encounters in instances. Everything else, either your target moves, or you have to, or both, meaning you give up offensive and/or defensive abilities whenever you place a shade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucianDK.8615 Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 > @"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said: > In PvE, Scourge isn't really viable for most content. You now have to make the choice of your F skills being at your shades or at yourself. For anything that requires any movement at all, you can no longer place shades. > > This basically relegates it to just open world and a couple of encounters in instances. Everything else, either your target moves, or you have to, or both, meaning you give up offensive and/or defensive abilities whenever you place a shade. I am strongly wondering why people isnt making use of Sand Savant in pve. Much larger areas of effect, and easier able to keep up with movement, and much easier to contain larger groups of mobs. And you have the full expertise/boon/damage reduction. But you give up higher torment damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anchoku.8142 Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 > @"LucianDK.8615" said: > > @"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said: > > In PvE, Scourge isn't really viable for most content. You now have to make the choice of your F skills being at your shades or at yourself. For anything that requires any movement at all, you can no longer place shades. > > > > This basically relegates it to just open world and a couple of encounters in instances. Everything else, either your target moves, or you have to, or both, meaning you give up offensive and/or defensive abilities whenever you place a shade. > > I am strongly wondering why people isnt making use of Sand Savant in pve. Much larger areas of effect, and easier able to keep up with movement, and much easier to contain larger groups of mobs. And you have the full expertise/boon/damage reduction. But you give up higher torment damage. I have used Sand Savant in some open world but it works better in old content. New mobs and boss mobs move around a lot more. Shades are like a variant of wells so expect the same problems. Scourge dps has been nerfed so much it is not very good in PvE, instanced or open world. Best PvE bet for me is to play a hybrid of support (barrier + heal) and whatever dps I can manage. No reason not to bring Epi in open world zerging, either as the newer content frequently has adds. Small shades are more flexible in use. No shades might be better now but I am still experimenting, when I log on, that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucianDK.8615 Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 > @"Anchoku.8142" said: > > @"LucianDK.8615" said: > > > @"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said: > > > In PvE, Scourge isn't really viable for most content. You now have to make the choice of your F skills being at your shades or at yourself. For anything that requires any movement at all, you can no longer place shades. > > > > > > This basically relegates it to just open world and a couple of encounters in instances. Everything else, either your target moves, or you have to, or both, meaning you give up offensive and/or defensive abilities whenever you place a shade. > > > > I am strongly wondering why people isnt making use of Sand Savant in pve. Much larger areas of effect, and easier able to keep up with movement, and much easier to contain larger groups of mobs. And you have the full expertise/boon/damage reduction. But you give up higher torment damage. > > I have used Sand Savant in some open world but it works better in old content. New mobs and boss mobs move around a lot more. Shades are like a variant of wells so expect the same problems. > > Scourge dps has been nerfed so much it is not very good in PvE, instanced or open world. Best PvE bet for me is to play a hybrid of support (barrier + heal) and whatever dps I can manage. No reason not to bring Epi in open world zerging, either as the newer content frequently has adds. > > Small shades are more flexible in use. No shades might be better now but I am still experimenting, when I log on, that is. According to SC scourge is at 28.8k, whereas Reaper is at 31k. Its not that long since Reaper last was on the wrong side of 30k. But mobs in the expansions is often sturdy enough to live long enough to make epidemic useful, compared to the papercutouts of core tyria that falls over when you just look at them. But I think you do use less time on Shade casting with sand savant, allowing you to cast other spells. On the other hand, less sadistic searing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lotus Bane.9387 Posted November 18, 2019 Author Share Posted November 18, 2019 > @"Anchoku.8142" said: > > @"LucianDK.8615" said: > > > @"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said: > > > In PvE, Scourge isn't really viable for most content. You now have to make the choice of your F skills being at your shades or at yourself. For anything that requires any movement at all, you can no longer place shades. > > > > > > This basically relegates it to just open world and a couple of encounters in instances. Everything else, either your target moves, or you have to, or both, meaning you give up offensive and/or defensive abilities whenever you place a shade. > > > > I am strongly wondering why people isnt making use of Sand Savant in pve. Much larger areas of effect, and easier able to keep up with movement, and much easier to contain larger groups of mobs. And you have the full expertise/boon/damage reduction. But you give up higher torment damage. > > I have used Sand Savant in some open world but it works better in old content. New mobs and boss mobs move around a lot more. Shades are like a variant of wells so expect the same problems. > > Scourge dps has been nerfed so much it is not very good in PvE, instanced or open world. Best PvE bet for me is to play a hybrid of support (barrier + heal) and whatever dps I can manage. No reason not to bring Epi in open world zerging, either as the newer content frequently has adds. > > Small shades are more flexible in use. No shades might be better now but I am still experimenting, when I log on, that is. So epidemic would generally be the reason to go the condi route rather than power? I like the sound of the support that you mentioned as well. Is that condi based for the damage as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anchoku.8142 Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 > @"Lotus Bane.9387" said: > > @"Anchoku.8142" said: > > > @"LucianDK.8615" said: > > > > @"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said: > > > > In PvE, Scourge isn't really viable for most content. You now have to make the choice of your F skills being at your shades or at yourself. For anything that requires any movement at all, you can no longer place shades. > > > > > > > > This basically relegates it to just open world and a couple of encounters in instances. Everything else, either your target moves, or you have to, or both, meaning you give up offensive and/or defensive abilities whenever you place a shade. > > > > > > I am strongly wondering why people isnt making use of Sand Savant in pve. Much larger areas of effect, and easier able to keep up with movement, and much easier to contain larger groups of mobs. And you have the full expertise/boon/damage reduction. But you give up higher torment damage. > > > > I have used Sand Savant in some open world but it works better in old content. New mobs and boss mobs move around a lot more. Shades are like a variant of wells so expect the same problems. > > > > Scourge dps has been nerfed so much it is not very good in PvE, instanced or open world. Best PvE bet for me is to play a hybrid of support (barrier + heal) and whatever dps I can manage. No reason not to bring Epi in open world zerging, either as the newer content frequently has adds. > > > > Small shades are more flexible in use. No shades might be better now but I am still experimenting, when I log on, that is. > > So epidemic would generally be the reason to go the condi route rather than power? I like the sound of the support that you mentioned as well. Is that condi based for the damage as well? Open world bosses get so stacked with condi that I do not think it matters what build is used with Epidemic. Adds usually go down fast but the higher rank ones can be a nuisance. This leaves a corner condition where a dps utility is useful. As a side note, Epidemic in open world is definitely, noticeably nerfed from what it used to be before 2017. The projectiles are still slow, the conditions copied are only half-duration, and there is the limited range to consider for new mobs that move a lot more making it easy to "miss" when using Epidemic. Then again, there are not many dps options for utilities and the HoT and PoF open world events are so filled with strong AoE and CC that I find mobility and defensive type utilities more valuable. (Spectral Walk, Spectral Armor, Trail of Anguish, Sand Swell, Signet of the Locust, You are all Weaklings, etc.) Players also get downed frequently in the chaos so Blood Magic will always be useful, if I decide to take it. Death Magic is still a foolish choice because being focused by a legendary bounty rarely ends well. It is like Arenanet decided to double-down on making DM a solo play and MM trait line. I will probably try it again but not too soon. Really hoping the template feature is fixed or gets an "off" button. That thing is annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAgedGnome.7520 Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 > @"Lotus Bane.9387" said: > Hey there everyone, > > I was curious about Scourge. When it was first released, I was having a good time with power Scourge every now and then. Is power Scourge still viable in PvE? Or is condi Scourge just dominating everything? > > Also, I'm aware that you can sort of play anything you want in PvE, but I am still interested in viability. > > Thanks! I was a core necro for many years (had 3 of them) and then left it behind for Firebrand, Mirage, Soulbeast, and Spellbreaker. Finally coming back around to try necro again just this week after years of ignoring them. I can't see what the fuss is about - with a mishmash of old equipment set and a guess at some traits (including Sand Savant), power Scourge seems pretty fun and capable for OW pve. Maybe in competitive modes its lacking, but so far I see no reason for all the hand-wringing. Of course, I can't compare it to when Scourge was apparently stronger, but in comparison to other professions it seems hold its own, with each having unique strengths/weaknesses. My mishmash build: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSwAciZlNUxkabXFujAnZkOySfvNA-zVpUBRDK4JiQYCBBOEmbQGlDZUOukRMFQihQEJQ1RgKDA-w Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrHome.1920 Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 Even berserker power scourge has poor dps. But in pve you can play what you want, so just do it. Templates let you switch between power scourge and power reaper on the fly and you will notice pretty quick how much more damage the reaper does. The reason is that scourge has strong team support whether you want it or not. You are always dishing out barriers with your heal and F3 and condi cleanses with your F2, which limits your role as a dps dealer to become not too strong. Otherwise every group would run 5 dps scourges stacking tons of barrier and cleanses on each other and become invincible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucianDK.8615 Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 The scourge's party strenght used to be a lot higher as a dps with truly significant barrier ability, but theyve since then taken a big axe to the power of their defensive ability if not going a dedicated healer role. Barrier now scaling with healing power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anchoku.8142 Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 The change to heal scaling seems good to me. I just wish Scourge had an acceptable condi dps build. Incoming boons should do more for a build without barrier sharing. The selfish burn-Scourge was nerfed a bit too much. It, too, could use stronger scaling when fully supported by boons. For example, a trait that competes with Scourge support skills could add to the power and/or condition damage stat based on concentration and the number of boons active. Edit: Conversely, support builds need to have lower personal dps (in all professions) depending on how valuable that support is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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