The Negativity Snowball

[Xar.6279]

> @"finkle.9513" said:

> I dont understand why other players have a issue with players not being happy.. there is obviously reasons!!

 

People spend real money on Guild Wars 2 so they want to ensure themselves that they didn't wasted their money.

 

They may see that something wrong is happening but they won't tell it loudly. And they will attack others who does it.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Xar.6279" said:

> > @"finkle.9513" said:

> > I dont understand why other players have a issue with players not being happy.. there is obviously reasons!!

>

> People spend real money on Guild Wars 2 so they want to ensure themselves that they didn't wasted their money.

>

> They may see that something wrong is happening but they won't tell it loudly. And they will attack others who does it.

And, ironically, it is by acting that way, that they ensure that indeed the money they spent will get wasted even faster.

 

Complimenting devs for work badly done will not make them do it better next time. Quite the opposite.

 

[Amy of Darkness.5248]

^ Absolutely.

What people need to keep in mind is that people complain not because they are haters and can't find something positive to say, it's because they like or even love the product and want it to continue on a healthy track for a long time. To paraphrase Doxa: "It's a good thing I love this game so much, because I love it a little less each time their short-sighted decisions set it back!"

 

When people complain about game-breaking bugs, aesthetic problems, getting ripped off on gemstore items, easily implemented QOL being ignored, and new features falling well short of expectations, they complain because these things should be done better and staying silent guarantees they won't even fix their mistakes let alone try to do better in the future.

 

You cannot expect a company whose first and only ambition is to make money to want to do better out of the goodness of their hearts. No doubt there are people on the team who care deeply about making a great game and feel hampered by deadlines, demands, and being told to cut corners and use less resources. There is no justice for those people if you keep telling corporate heads it's all fine and to stay the course of "lean" style production, which is basically do it cheap and fast and don't look back.

[Teratus.2859]

> @"ugrakarma.9416" said:

> sry but u guys are locked into a catch22,

> if just more raids/fractals/legendaries works no one will be discussing the "state of the game".

>

> i hope Anet realized that pvp is the real end game that really works.... overinvesting in instanced content for end game for speedrunners elitists is proved to be a failure at this point. 1~2 fractals per "season" is more than enough, 1 raid per season is more than enough.

 

Vast majority of players don't even touch pvp content nor enjoy that kind of gameplay.

 

That said Raids has a small player base as well so guess we can say that Gw2 is still struggling to find it's real endgame content as there really doesn't appear to be any atm.

 

Personally I wish Anet would revisit the elite dungeon content from Gw1 as that traditional big endurance test dungeon experience is something Gw2 doesn't have and never has really.

[Naxos.2503]

> @"Adul.1520" said:

> To me the biggest disappointment is the game not having a clear future. I want an expansion that's on par with what PoF brought to the table, and Living World just isn't cutting it. It never was. Anet hasn't made any statements that would make me confident that the game would ever have something like PoF ever again, and without that assurance, I'm just not in the mood to play anymore. I've played the game since release, but the constant repetition has worn me down.

 

I find myself in that position as well, which is disheartening. The game had become my second home, to the point I brought a part of my guild to it, from a Radically different game and maintained it successfully for years. I however outwardly dislike their evasion of repeated questions from their playerbase about the future, and that reeks of corporate calculation : as long as they dont tell us "It isn't coming", they keep us in limbo, which is -not- a pleasant feeling to anyone. The content I want comes from expansions. Expansions are officially "not ruled out" and "on the table" indefinitely. Until one is released, my money and playtime will now be "not ruled out" and "on the table" indefinitely.

I was a paying customer, I reckon I racked up to 3 digits. However my interest in the game has dwindled so much, I see literally no reason to spend on it more. When they've re-engaged my interest, we'll talk.

[Asum.4960]

> @"Teratus.2859" said:

> That said Raids has a small player base as well so guess we can say that Gw2 is still struggling to find it's real endgame content as there really doesn't appear to be any atm.

>

> Personally I wish Anet would revisit the elite dungeon content from Gw1 as that traditional big endurance test dungeon experience is something Gw2 doesn't have and never has really.

 

From what I remember looking at the GW2Efficiency numbers a while back, Raid population only started to really drop after Wing 4, which released with a much larger gap, coming almost 8 months after W3, compared to the ~4 month gap between the initial three Raid Wings, so it had a lot of expectations riding on it, just to end up being disappointingly easy to all those people who stuck around for all those months.

 

Wing 1 had a 20-30% (last to first boss) completion rate of the game population, which kept up decently with W2 (16-19%) and W3 (14-26%), Wing 4 kept that up with 15-24%, but ended up disappointing many after that long waiting time, which then is reflected in how many people stayed around for W5 (7-10%), especially considering that was another long almost 9 months of wait for any new content for Raiders, which then became the norm in terms of waiting for the other Wings, which is reflected in the further drop in completion with W6 (5-9%) and W7 (2-3%), although those numbers might be slightly higher by now as they are ~5 months old.

 

If 30% completion sounds like niche content or a small playerbase, for reference, that's about the completion rate of LW these days, probably the most accessible content ingame, although I'm sure that slice of the game population is also less likely to be on GW2Efficiency, it's still something to keep in mind (also ofc active player population is drastically declining over all, which is reflected across the entire game, not just Raids or LW).

 

But TL;DR, Raids didn't "fail" because it wasn't good, or not the right content for the game, it started failing and drastically dropping in population as the release cadence pretty much more than doubled in times between releases.

 

Similarly Fractal CM's, which are fantastic endgame content, haven't seen a single update in almost 3 years. Of course the population completely crumbled away in that time, and the fact that anyone is even still playing that content after so much time without anything new on the horizon is a testament to how fantastic of an endgame content that format makes.

 

So imo it's not that GW2 struggled to find it's endgame, it's just that Anet completely starved the existing one out.

 

Releasing 30 minutes of content, even if highly repeatable, only every ~9 months (Raids), and waiting 3 years for another piece of 10 minute content (Fractal CM's) just makes it impossible for any community to sustain itself, no matter how much they love the game or how engaged they are with it.

[finkle.9513]

> @"Amy of Darkness.5248" said:

> ^ Absolutely.

> What people need to keep in mind is that people complain not because they are haters and can't find something positive to say, it's because they like or even love the product and want it to continue on a healthy track for a long time. To paraphrase Doxa: "It's a good thing I love this game so much, because I love it a little less each time their short-sighted decisions set it back!"

>

> When people complain about game-breaking bugs, aesthetic problems, getting ripped off on gemstore items, easily implemented QOL being ignored, and new features falling well short of expectations, they complain because these things should be done better and staying silent guarantees they won't even fix their mistakes let alone try to do better in the future.

>

> You cannot expect a company whose first and only ambition is to make money to want to do better out of the goodness of their hearts. No doubt there are people on the team who care deeply about making a great game and feel hampered by deadlines, demands, and being told to cut corners and use less resources. There is no justice for those people if you keep telling corporate heads it's all fine and to stay the course of "lean" style production, which is basically do it cheap and fast and don't look back.

 

Yes but I think behind closed doors they are fully aware of the numbers falling in game, as that has a direct coloration to money spent in Gem store.. They will never ever admit any of this, until its doomed, and some huge changes need to take place.

But remember they know better than the player base and they will do what they see fit for the game.

[Solitude.2097]

> @"Asum.4960" said:

> > @"Teratus.2859" said:

> > That said Raids has a small player base as well so guess we can say that Gw2 is still struggling to find it's real endgame content as there really doesn't appear to be any atm.

> >

> > Personally I wish Anet would revisit the elite dungeon content from Gw1 as that traditional big endurance test dungeon experience is something Gw2 doesn't have and never has really.

>

> From what I remember looking at the GW2Efficiency numbers a while back, Raid population only started to really drop around Wing 4, which released which a much larger gap, coming almost 8 months after W3, compared to the ~4 month gap between the initial three Raid Wings, as well as being disappointingly easy to all those people who stuck around for all those months.

>

> Wing 1 had a 20-30% (last to first boss) completion rate of the game population, which kept up decently with W2 (16-19%) and W3 (14-26%), Wing 4 kept that up with 15-24%, but ended up disappointing many after that long waiting time, which then is reflected in how many people stayed around for W5 (7-10%), especially considering that was another long almost 9 months of wait for any new content for Raiders., which then became the norm in terms of waiting for the other Wings, which is reflected in the further drop in completion with W6 (5-9%) and W7 (2-3%), although those numbers might be slightly higher by now as they are ~5 months old.

>

> If 30% completion sounds like niche content or a small playerbase, for reference, that's about the completion rate of LW these days, probably the most accessible content ingame, although I'm sure that slice of the game population is also less likely to be on GW2Efficiency, it's still something to keep in mind (also ofc active player population is drastically declining over all, which is reflected across the entire game, not just Raids or LW).

>

> But TL;DR, Raids didn't "fail" because it wasn't good, or not the right content for the game, it started failing and drastically dropping in population as the release cadence pretty much more than doubled in times between releases.

>

> Similarly Fractal CM's, which are fantastic endgame content, hasn't seen a single update in almost 3 years. Of course the population completely crumbled away in that time, and the fact that anyone is even still playing that content after so much time without anything new on the horizon is a testament to how fantastic of an endgame content that format makes.

>

> So imo it's not that GW2 struggled to find it's endgame, it's just that Anet completely starved it out.

>

> Releasing 30 minutes of content, even if highly repeatable, only every ~9 months (Raids), and waiting 3 years for another piece of 10 minute content (Fractal CM's) just makes it impossible for any community to sustain itself, no matter how much they love the game or how engaged they are with it.

 

W1 first boss you where ""forced'' to do in order to unlock the lvl up bar and the Spirit Shards

So the 30% from the first boss is invalid .

 

W5+6 where a lot harder than that the rest of the Raid Wings

If Pugs cannot kill them , they will not show in the charts

If raiders dont inv new guys , then they will be fewer ppl on the charts

 

For season 7 true , we dont have stats .

In W7+5+6 dont you get a ''random '' currency , while the 1-4 is the old but steady currency ?

Whos gonna gamble in farming ''random (1-9) currecnies , rather than steady 100-150 LI from each Raid, for the Legendary Armor ?

Or generaly avoinding current ''hot spots'' and go for the : -atleaste-i-have-a-chance-to-do 1 old easy boss per Raid to gather those 100 LP

[Asum.4960]

> @"Solitude.2097" said:

> > @"Asum.4960" said:

> > > @"Teratus.2859" said:

> > > That said Raids has a small player base as well so guess we can say that Gw2 is still struggling to find it's real endgame content as there really doesn't appear to be any atm.

> > >

> > > Personally I wish Anet would revisit the elite dungeon content from Gw1 as that traditional big endurance test dungeon experience is something Gw2 doesn't have and never has really.

> >

> > From what I remember looking at the GW2Efficiency numbers a while back, Raid population only started to really drop around Wing 4, which released which a much larger gap, coming almost 8 months after W3, compared to the ~4 month gap between the initial three Raid Wings, as well as being disappointingly easy to all those people who stuck around for all those months.

> >

> > Wing 1 had a 20-30% (last to first boss) completion rate of the game population, which kept up decently with W2 (16-19%) and W3 (14-26%), Wing 4 kept that up with 15-24%, but ended up disappointing many after that long waiting time, which then is reflected in how many people stayed around for W5 (7-10%), especially considering that was another long almost 9 months of wait for any new content for Raiders., which then became the norm in terms of waiting for the other Wings, which is reflected in the further drop in completion with W6 (5-9%) and W7 (2-3%), although those numbers might be slightly higher by now as they are ~5 months old.

> >

> > If 30% completion sounds like niche content or a small playerbase, for reference, that's about the completion rate of LW these days, probably the most accessible content ingame, although I'm sure that slice of the game population is also less likely to be on GW2Efficiency, it's still something to keep in mind (also ofc active player population is drastically declining over all, which is reflected across the entire game, not just Raids or LW).

> >

> > But TL;DR, Raids didn't "fail" because it wasn't good, or not the right content for the game, it started failing and drastically dropping in population as the release cadence pretty much more than doubled in times between releases.

> >

> > Similarly Fractal CM's, which are fantastic endgame content, hasn't seen a single update in almost 3 years. Of course the population completely crumbled away in that time, and the fact that anyone is even still playing that content after so much time without anything new on the horizon is a testament to how fantastic of an endgame content that format makes.

> >

> > So imo it's not that GW2 struggled to find it's endgame, it's just that Anet completely starved it out.

> >

> > Releasing 30 minutes of content, even if highly repeatable, only every ~9 months (Raids), and waiting 3 years for another piece of 10 minute content (Fractal CM's) just makes it impossible for any community to sustain itself, no matter how much they love the game or how engaged they are with it.

>

> W1 first boss you where ""forced'' to do in order to unlock the lvl up bar and the Spirit Shards

> So the 30% from the first boss is invalid .

 

Wouldn't that apply to any LW release as well? Besides Masteries, even mounts are locked behind that. I'm sure plenty of people couldn't care less about LW releases, but still play them just max out their mastery level, unlock mounts, or simply because there is nothing better to do.

So those completion numbers are massively inflated too, probably more so than any Raid numbers ever were.

Imagine mounts like the Beetle and especially the Skyscale instead only being available via Raid completion, and how that would boost that contents population, especially if it came out at a ~3 month cadence.

 

> @"Solitude.2097" said:

> W5+6 where a lot harder than that the rest of the Raid Wings

> If Pugs cannot kill them , they will not show in the charts

> If raiders dont inv new guys , then they will be fewer ppl on the charts

 

True for W5 at least, but it seems unlikely that this would cause a 50% population drop, if it hadn't been for the disappointingly easy W4 which left many Raiders wanting and which people had to wait 8 months for, just to then wait another 9 months for W5 to come out.

If difficulty was the main issue, surely W6, CA and all of W7 would have been a massive resurgence instead of further drops, despite more 9 months of waiting times.

 

> @"Solitude.2097" said:

> For season 7 true , we dont have stats .

> In W7+5+6 dont you get a ''random '' currency , while the 1-4 is the old but steady currency ?

> Whos gonna gamble in farming ''random (1-9) currecnies , rather than steady 100-150 LI from each Raid, for the Legendary Armor ?

 

I don't quite understand.

But if rewards were an issue then that also doesn't speak for the quality or place of the content and would just be another failure around it, failing to support it.

 

[Solitude.2097]

1) Those 30% are increased , because ppl , where forced to kill once a Raid Boss , to the locked bar would go away .

There where huge amount of ppl that moaned about that locked mechanic for 5 months (before the company removed the requirments)

They couldnt get any more exp and turn it to gold (after they have complete all the other HoT map masteries)

What percentage did they kill the second boss ? Or third ?

Theres lie your answer (for whom loved raids)

 

2) W6 is less hard than 5

But still harder than the previous 4.

The casuals have just accepted their fate and simply where doing the same 4-5 boss rather than moving in the cuthroat area where the Raiders where occuping at that period (aka Raid 6)

Escort in W3 or Trio in W2 , VG in wing 1 , Gorseval

(hence W1-4 more ppl are playing > higher kill charts > the company is simply wasting their money into creating new ones )

 

 

[Asum.4960]

> @"Solitude.2097" said:

> 1) Those 30% are increased , because ppl , where forced to kill once a Raid Boss , to the locked bar would go away .

> There where huge amount of ppl that moaned about that locked mechanic for 5 months (before the company removed the requirments)

> They couldnt get any more exp and turn it to gold (after they have complete all the other HoT map masteries)

> What percentage did they kill the second boss ? Or third ?

> Theres lie your answer (for whom loved raids)

 

I know what you meant. Same goes for LW engagement numbers, just even more so. Also, 25%.

 

> @"Solitude.2097" said:

> 2) W6 is less hard than 5

> But still harder than the previous 4.

> The casuals have just accepted their fate and simply where doing the same 4-5 boss rather than moving in the cuthroat area where the Raiders where occuping at that period (aka Raid 6)

> Escort in W3 or Trio in W2 , VG in wing 1 , Gorseval

> (hence W1-4 more ppl are playing > higher kill charts > the company is simply wasting their money into creating new ones )

 

Ah yes, the cutthroat Raiders.

Imo the most friendly, willing to help and welcoming community ingame, if you don't make the mistake of pugging with those few too hostile to ever be accepted in a group and actually look for a organised group/static yourself, as intended for such group content.

 

 

[Solitude.2097]

True

Raids is for organised groups

If you are casual you should do the easier parts

Thats common sense

Lets see if Practice/Training Raids will do Wing 7 for the end-chest in the meantime , or they still play the more relaxed W1-4 single bosses (lowering their gold income - but aiming for the legendaries piece).