Insidious disruption - Anet dropped the ball..

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

So in exchange for losing fall damage reduction and aoe fear on taking fall damage we gain...what?

Same single 3s torment stack, only now on **almost** any hard cc (not on Flesh Golem's charge).

 

So an almost dead trait now is completely dead, and on arrival as well! As it stands curses adept has 2 dead traits and mandatory Plague Sending...

[Tao.5096]

And boon farting was never as happy as now.

 

But I guess necromancer needs one or two more nerfs before they realize they were hitting wrong (dead)horse.

[Brujeria.7536]

You really had any hopes that they would NOT fuck this up?

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

> @"Brujeria.7536" said:

> You really had any hopes that they would NOT kitten this up?

 

My condi reaper and core did. They stand corrected now.

[grave of hearts.7830]

> @"Brujeria.7536" said:

> You really had any hopes that they would NOT kitten this up?

 

Dont know about him but i expected them to NOT KITTEN THIS UP SO MUCH!............

[EremiteAngel.9765]

It is not that bad I guess. For myself at least I never really depended much on the fall thing but I’m sure others do when kiting and stuff although gliders would have changed that up some what.

 

It’s nice If it works with spectral pull, GS 5 pull, corrupted stab to fear, shroud fear, RS 5 stun, war horn daze, torch 5, staff 5, fear ring, reaper elite, and whatever else I miss.

 

One extra condi for them to clear.

Although 2 torment stack would be nicer.

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

> @"EremiteAngel.9765" said:

> It is not that bad I guess. For myself at least I never really depended much on the fall thing but I’m sure others do when kiting and stuff although gliders would have changed that up some what.

>

> It’s nice If it works with spectral pull, GS 5 pull, corrupted stab to fear, shroud fear, RS 5 stun, war horn daze, torch 5, staff 5, fear ring, reaper elite, and whatever else I miss.

>

> One extra condi for them to clear.

> Although 2 torment stack would be nicer.

 

It is that bad, it's trash. For comparison look at Spite's Bitter chill.

 

Also adept, also applies a condi (vulnerability) but when you chill.

 

Works great for power and condi builds. Gives 3 stacks not one of it's condi. Triggers on chill that is easier to access then hard cc and does not fail when enemy resists said hard cc (like unflinching mob or boss, because it's defiance bar is not active at a moment).

And most of all serves a real purpose in certain builds (usually reaper). Keeping 50% crit chance from decimate defenses with Bitter Chill is much easier, not to mention stacking Death's carapace if you got Death Magic with corrupter's fervor, making the trait power friendly as well.

 

And now back to Insidious Disruption - ball's on your side..

[Nimon.7840]

Wait. So the trait doesn't proc on golem charge?

[Asum.4960]

Well, business as usual. From the very first time this change was revealed, people said it won't compete with Plague Sending (+Blood is Power) in terms of DPS, while at the same time lacking any and all Utility compared to Plague Sending as well.

 

They didn't listen, now it's a dead on arrival Trait as usual.

 

Who knows, maybe they notice it's bad in 6-18 months, buff it by too little by making it 2 stacks, and then in 3 years maybe increase it to 5 second duration with two stacks.

Or you know, over buff it, and then nerf it into the the ground immediately after again, returning it to 1 Stack for 3 Seconds for another 4 years.

[Nimon.7840]

They just have to buff offhand dagger to outvalue the useage of double torch.

[Tsan.6431]

> @"EremiteAngel.9765" said:

> It is not that bad I guess. For myself at least I never really depended much on the fall thing but I’m sure others do when kiting and stuff although gliders would have changed that up some what.

>

> It’s nice If it works with spectral pull, corrupted stab to fear, shroud fear, war horn daze, torch 5, staff 5, fear ring, and whatever else I miss.

>

> One extra condi for them to clear.

> Although 2 torment stack would be nicer.

 

And with Demonic Lore (scourge 7) torment add burn to your oppenements : each hard CC inflict burn <3

 

 

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

> @"Tsan.6431" said:

> > @"EremiteAngel.9765" said:

> > It is not that bad I guess. For myself at least I never really depended much on the fall thing but I’m sure others do when kiting and stuff although gliders would have changed that up some what.

> >

> > It’s nice If it works with spectral pull, corrupted stab to fear, shroud fear, war horn daze, torch 5, staff 5, fear ring, and whatever else I miss.

> >

> > One extra condi for them to clear.

> > Although 2 torment stack would be nicer.

>

> And with Demonic Lore (scourge 7) torment add burn to your oppenements : each hard CC inflict burn <3

 

Ok, now **that** is an actual argument in it's defense. Extra burn makes it much better. I didn't know that, because i'm a core/reaper player and generally stay away from scourge spec.

[Asum.4960]

> @"Tsan.6431" said:

> > @"EremiteAngel.9765" said:

> > It is not that bad I guess. For myself at least I never really depended much on the fall thing but I’m sure others do when kiting and stuff although gliders would have changed that up some what.

> >

> > It’s nice If it works with spectral pull, corrupted stab to fear, shroud fear, war horn daze, torch 5, staff 5, fear ring, and whatever else I miss.

> >

> > One extra condi for them to clear.

> > Although 2 torment stack would be nicer.

>

> And with Demonic Lore (scourge 7) torment add burn to your oppenements : each hard CC inflict burn <3

>

>

 

Which has an ICD of 3 Seconds per target, which you are are generally hitting anyway with Manifest, Shroud and Scepter 3.

So it just ends up being worse than Plague Sending.

[Tsan.6431]

I don't see any issue with a ID a 3s ... inflict 1 burn/3s is better them inflict 1 burn per fear.

[Asum.4960]

> @"Tsan.6431" said:

> I don't see any issue with a ID a 3s ... inflict 1 burn/3s is better them inflict 1 burn per fear.

 

Point is the Burn from Demonic Lore triggers every 3 seconds if you are using Insidious Disruption or not, so all it adds is that one Stack of Torment per hard CC, which comes out as less DPS than transfering BiP's self-conditions reliably with Plague Sending, while also lacking the general condi Transfer Utility of Plague Sending in other gamemodes, making it a strictly worse Trait in pretty much all situations.

 

Since Scourge already deals so heavily in Torment, it's also not acting as Cover Condi for fear or anything like that, since Torment is likely already being applied by your other skills. Not that Scourge is still viable in PvP anyway.

 

So yea, no burn from your hard CC's as Garish Pillar already triggers Torment for the burn with Manifest, and Oppressive Collapse applies Torment as well on it's own, Demonic Lore is being triggered regardless and doesn't synergise with Insidious Disruption, making the Trait a DPS loss compared to the Utility Pick that is Plague Sending.

[Hannelore.8153]

Its sad because Warrior and Necro fall damage traits were the most used in WvW. Often parties or guilds would coordinate the use of fall damage tactics in order to make rushes successful, as zergs are often funneled through choke points that have cliffs on either side.

 

No one thinks they were important, but you'll really notice the loss of drop-bubbles and fearbombs while pushing..

[Stand The Wall.6987]

omg its not even a big deal.

[Asum.4960]

Considering Scourge is currently **8-12k DPS** behind similar condi DPS professions (Renegade, Firebrand, Mirage, etc.), what I would really like to see Anet at least test internally is the removal of the 3 second ICD from **Demonic Lore** _in PvE only_.

 

That in turn could make **Insidious Disruption** a valuable contender, synergising with **Demonic Lore**, especially if that too was slightly buffed to go along with that, maybe being Increased to two Stacks of Torment, and maybe even doubling the base duration to 6 seconds on top of that, maybe also in PvE only.

 

That might be enough to make Scourge a viable contender in PvE on condi bosses, especially considering the extra Minor support in form of Barriers and condi cleanses it can provide to low support comps.

Currently the damage gap is just way to high between Scourge and every other condi DPS to make it worthwhile.

[Tsan.6431]

> @"Asum.4960" said:

> > @"Tsan.6431" said:

> > I don't see any issue with a ID a 3s ... inflict 1 burn/3s is better them inflict 1 burn per fear.

>

> Point is the Burn from Demonic Lore triggers every 3 seconds if you are using Insidious Disruption ... or not"

 

Each scourge player triggers shadow each 3s, it's obvious ... everyone knows it ... ... or not

 

 

I don't see any contradiction with the fact a trigger per hard CC is better them a trigger per fear.

 

[Asum.4960]

> @"Tsan.6431" said:

> > @"Asum.4960" said:

> > > @"Tsan.6431" said:

> > > I don't see any issue with a ID a 3s ... inflict 1 burn/3s is better them inflict 1 burn per fear.

> >

> > Point is the Burn from Demonic Lore triggers every 3 seconds if you are using Insidious Disruption ... or not"

>

> Each scourge player triggers shadow each 3s, it's obvious ... everyone knows it ... ... or not

>

>

> I don't see any contradiction with the fact a trigger per hard CC is better them a trigger per fear.

>

 

...what?

 

Nobody is debating whether 3 Seconds of Torment on any CC is better or worse than 3 Seconds of Torment on Fear, of course it's better.

But that doesn't change the fact that it's still terrible. The Trait went from never useful except for very niche cases to avoid falling damage to.. never useful, as there are better alternatives, both for DPS as well as utility, in one trait.