Holo Needs Buffs and Nerfs (Formerly: The recent changes to Holo were good but they weren't enough.)

[toxic.3648]

> @"apharma.3741" said:

> Corona Burst with Crystal Configuration: Eclipse was always meant to give 1 stack per pulse not per target hit, it clearly states this in the description. The getting more stab was a bug and it was around for quite a while.

>

> Corona Burst grants stability on each **attack** and creates a barrier for each target struck.

> Barrier per Hit: 374 (0.115)?

> Stability (2s): Cannot be knocked down, pushed back, pulled, launched, stunned, dazed, floated, sunk, feared or taunted.

>

> https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Crystal_Configuration:_Eclipse

>

> Edit: In it's original form the stability granted as per the wording was per attack and was applied regardless, it was then changed to require hitting a target, I believe it's about that time it started granting more than 1 stack per attack. Not sure about the last part but I'm sure @"Chaith.8256" can correct me if I'm wrong about when the bug was introduced.

 

actually u are right, latest i can find something is from half a year ago, every target hit granted 1 stack of stab each. i stand corrected o/

[shadowpass.4236]

> @"toxic.3648" said:

> > @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > I'm not trying to dig at you but you didn't know you could blast a single Healing Turret water field on Prot Holo upwards of 8 times consistently (or more with some utility changes)... I had to make a video to prove it to you even though I have significantly less time played on this class in comparison. I used to theorycraft pretty heavily for every class, so I'm well aware of what every single trait/utility/weaponskill/etc. etc. does and have experience playing an immense amount of build combinations.

>

>

> > I haven't tested it yet but if Mortrialus is correct and it was patched out in November, Corona Burst used to give 2 stacks of stab per target hit up to 5 targets. So, it usually ended up granting the Holo a consistent 10 stacks of stab in team fights. I haven't really been home these past few weeks so I haven't had the time to follow the recent patch notes.

>

>

> > I thought Corona Burst giving up to 10 stacks of stab was common knowledge at this point tbh. It's been doing this from as far back as I can remember, didn't even realize it was bugged.

>

> btw these statements contradict eachother, first telling engi main player u know better. then getting surprised at 10 stack stab being a thing. then to switch to "knew all along" xD

>

 

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/89968/how-to-nerf-tools-holo/p1

 

Corona Burst has granted 10 stacks of stability for a very long time. I didn't know it was fixed in the recent November patch. I haven't said anything that contradicts any of my other statements.

[shadowpass.4236]

> @"toxic.3648" said:

> > @"apharma.3741" said:

> > Corona Burst with Crystal Configuration: Eclipse was always meant to give 1 stack per pulse not per target hit, it clearly states this in the description. The getting more stab was a bug and it was around for quite a while.

> >

> > Corona Burst grants stability on each **attack** and creates a barrier for each target struck.

> > Barrier per Hit: 374 (0.115)?

> > Stability (2s): Cannot be knocked down, pushed back, pulled, launched, stunned, dazed, floated, sunk, feared or taunted.

> >

> > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Crystal_Configuration:_Eclipse

> >

> > Edit: In it's original form the stability granted as per the wording was per attack and was applied regardless, it was then changed to require hitting a target, I believe it's about that time it started granting more than 1 stack per attack. Not sure about the last part but I'm sure @"Chaith.8256" can correct me if I'm wrong about when the bug was introduced.

>

> actually u are right, latest i can find something is from half a year ago, every target hit granted 1 stack of stab each. i stand corrected o/

 

Ah okay ignore my previous post then.

 

/sigh

 

Man... I know you admitted you're wrong but this is exactly the issue I have on the forums. People insist on arguing with me when they don't even check for themselves. Like you've made several posts in this thread stating how "incorrect" I was, then you see for yourself that Corona Burst granting up to 10 stacks of stability has been in the game for a very long time. I find it very tedious having to constantly justify things I know are correct.

[toxic.3648]

> @"shadowpass.4236" said:

 

> Ah okay ignore my previous post then.

>

> /sigh

>

> Man... I know you admitted you're wrong but this is exactly the issue I have on the forums. People insist on arguing with me when they don't even check for themselves. Like you've made several posts in this thread stating how "incorrect" I was, then you see for yourself that Corona Burst granting up to 10 stacks of stability has been in the game for a very long time. I find it very tedious having to constantly justify things I know are correct.

 

no no ure right, im blind af since i didnt notice. but 10 stacks is doable yea but still for less than a second so id refer my prev statements

>then again, if corona burst did give 1 stack for 5 targets then u would have 10 stack of stab for 0,45 second with demo/leadership since thats all the duration overlap >from the 2 waves of stab allow.

>meh i dunno, dosnt seem "game-changing" to me.

>edit: i wouldnt call 10 stack of stab for 0.45 sec consistent when its depending on hitting 5 targets twice in teamfights when ppl know to dodge holo 3 and u most likely arent close to 5 ppl all the time either. situational at best. but i dont disagree that the bug should be fixed

 

and most the vids ive shifted through till now noone even comes close to 10 stacks, max i saw was jaw with 7 when he popped elixir U

 

edit:

reason most ppl argue with u here is because u notoriously create nerf post after nerf post with builds u have a hard time with.

i only know u for being the biggest forum screamer. nothing else.

but sadly if anet balances after who shouts the loudest in here, u might get ur wish with power mesmer and holo being completely canned

 

[apharma.3741]

> @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > @"toxic.3648" said:

> > > @"apharma.3741" said:

> > > Corona Burst with Crystal Configuration: Eclipse was always meant to give 1 stack per pulse not per target hit, it clearly states this in the description. The getting more stab was a bug and it was around for quite a while.

> > >

> > > Corona Burst grants stability on each **attack** and creates a barrier for each target struck.

> > > Barrier per Hit: 374 (0.115)?

> > > Stability (2s): Cannot be knocked down, pushed back, pulled, launched, stunned, dazed, floated, sunk, feared or taunted.

> > >

> > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Crystal_Configuration:_Eclipse

> > >

> > > Edit: In it's original form the stability granted as per the wording was per attack and was applied regardless, it was then changed to require hitting a target, I believe it's about that time it started granting more than 1 stack per attack. Not sure about the last part but I'm sure @"Chaith.8256" can correct me if I'm wrong about when the bug was introduced.

> >

> > actually u are right, latest i can find something is from half a year ago, every target hit granted 1 stack of stab each. i stand corrected o/

>

> Ah okay ignore my previous post then.

>

> /sigh

>

> Man... I know you admitted you're wrong but this is exactly the issue I have on the forums. People insist on arguing with me when they don't even check for themselves. Like you've made several posts in this thread stating how "incorrect" I was, then you see for yourself that Corona Burst granting up to 10 stacks of stability has been in the game for a very long time. I find it very tedious having to constantly justify things I know are correct.

 

Except the behaviour you described was never intended.

 

At PoF launch when the trait is selected it grants 1 stack of stability **per attack** regardless of whether it hit anything or not, this amounted to 2 stacks of stability each for 4s regardless of targets hit. Then they changed the trait so that the attack had to hit something to give stability and I believe this is where it got bugged at some point and would grant 1 stack of stab per target hit by both attacks. I'm not sure if it was in the patch where it became an on hit proc or the patch where they skill split it and reduced the duration. @"AngelsShadow.7360" should know when it happened.

 

The thing is you should never count bugs as if it was intended gameplay. Being a bit more careful with wording, for example in your previous reply to Falan, stating the trait was bugged and gave 1 stack per target hit would have avoided about 10 different comments and this whole back and forth with Toxic, Chaith and Mortrailus.

 

Also it seems a lot of people in this thread are not entirely up to date with the changes, can't blame them it's not like we all play daily like we used to in 2014.

[shadowpass.4236]

> @"apharma.3741" said:

> > @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > > @"toxic.3648" said:

> > > > @"apharma.3741" said:

> > > > Corona Burst with Crystal Configuration: Eclipse was always meant to give 1 stack per pulse not per target hit, it clearly states this in the description. The getting more stab was a bug and it was around for quite a while.

> > > >

> > > > Corona Burst grants stability on each **attack** and creates a barrier for each target struck.

> > > > Barrier per Hit: 374 (0.115)?

> > > > Stability (2s): Cannot be knocked down, pushed back, pulled, launched, stunned, dazed, floated, sunk, feared or taunted.

> > > >

> > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Crystal_Configuration:_Eclipse

> > > >

> > > > Edit: In it's original form the stability granted as per the wording was per attack and was applied regardless, it was then changed to require hitting a target, I believe it's about that time it started granting more than 1 stack per attack. Not sure about the last part but I'm sure @"Chaith.8256" can correct me if I'm wrong about when the bug was introduced.

> > >

> > > actually u are right, latest i can find something is from half a year ago, every target hit granted 1 stack of stab each. i stand corrected o/

> >

> > Ah okay ignore my previous post then.

> >

> > /sigh

> >

> > Man... I know you admitted you're wrong but this is exactly the issue I have on the forums. People insist on arguing with me when they don't even check for themselves. Like you've made several posts in this thread stating how "incorrect" I was, then you see for yourself that Corona Burst granting up to 10 stacks of stability has been in the game for a very long time. I find it very tedious having to constantly justify things I know are correct.

>

> Except the behaviour you described was never intended.

>

> At PoF launch when the trait is selected it grants 1 stack of stability **per attack** regardless of whether it hit anything or not, this amounted to 2 stacks of stability each for 4s regardless of targets hit. Then they changed the trait so that the attack had to hit something to give stability and I believe this is where it got bugged at some point and would grant 1 stack of stab per target hit by both attacks. I'm not sure if it was in the patch where it became an on hit proc or the patch where they skill split it and reduced the duration. @"AngelsShadow.7360" should know when it happened.

>

> The thing is you should never count bugs as if it was intended gameplay. Being a bit more careful with wording, for example in your previous reply to Falan, stating the trait was bugged and gave 1 stack per target hit would have avoided about 10 different comments and this whole back and forth with Toxic, Chaith and Mortrailus.

>

> Also it seems a lot of people in this thread are not entirely up to date with the changes, can't blame them it's not like we all play daily like we used to in 2014.

 

Yeah I know that now. It's been in the game like that for so long I figured it was just how the skill was intended to function. I didn't even know Anet considered it a bug until I read the november patch notes.

[Falan.1839]

> @"Chaith.8256" said:

> > @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > The stability from Corona Burst _does_ scale with the amount of targets hit...

>

> But you claim to play Holo? Log in for one second, go to the center of the 16 Champion Target Golems in the mists, and use Corona Burst

>

>

 

Just give it up honestly, these people will make rather make up an alternative reality than admit they're just cluelessly bullshitting.

 

> @"Grimjack.8130" said:

> Nerf prot holo more, not tools :)

 

 

Yeah, that build really gets a lot of value in high tier coordinated play, OMEGALUL.

[shadowpass.4236]

> @"Falan.1839" said:

> > @"Chaith.8256" said:

> > > @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > > The stability from Corona Burst _does_ scale with the amount of targets hit...

> >

> > But you claim to play Holo? Log in for one second, go to the center of the 16 Champion Target Golems in the mists, and use Corona Burst

> >

> >

>

> Just give it up honestly, these people will make rather make up an alternative reality than admit they're just cluelessly bullshitting.

>

> > @"Grimjack.8130" said:

> > Nerf prot holo more, not tools :)

>

>

>

> Yeah, that build really gets a lot of value in high tier coordinated play, OMEGALUL.

 

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/92410/game-update-notes-november-19-2019#latest

 

"Crystal Configuration: Eclipse: Fixed a bug that caused this trait to grant more stability than intended."

 

Corona Burst has been able to apply up to 10 stacks of stability for almost two years if the bug was introduced on the March 27th, 2018 patch. It got fixed about a week ago.

 

Imagine calling Rampage ["overstacked with benefits and promotes lazy gameplay"](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/74295/rampage-has-everything-and-needs-tradeoffs-nerfs/p1) meanwhile Holos' Corona Burst was able apply up to 10 stacks of stability every 6 seconds and requires every enemy to blow two defensive cooldowns to avoid giving them stab. Hey, at least you can SEE the Rampage skills before they CC you unlike Net Shot's Immob and Overcharged Shot in melee range.

 

But oh, you're an engi main and will hard defend the busted aspects of your class no matter what anyone says. ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯

[Angeels.3269]

No, the Corona Burst bug (stability stack per hit as opposed to just 1 stack per hit max) was introduced sometime in August from my memory - I can't search discord logs atm. It was returned to its previous state of 2 stacks maximum per corona burst usage.

 

Holo was never able to get 1 stack per player hit prior to this bug existing.

[Vagrant.7206]

> @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > @"Falan.1839" said:

> > > @"Foshizle.9802" said:

> > > > @"Falan.1839" said:

> > > > > @"Foshizle.9802" said:

> > > > > Omg yes, so tired of seeing top 25 players being holo mains. And last patch weapon swapping (ooc) was introduced! I think holo should lose the belt skills in exchange for this, too versatile at the moment. Also put a cast time on holo transformation so I can interrupt it, it's impossible to counter this at the moment too, thank you!

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > The weapon swap doesn't even work in PvP matches......

> > >

> > > It works on the warm up phase so you can still play some mind games on your opponent...

> > > Before: "He's gona play rifle, I'll adapt "this" way"....

> > > Now: "I have no f...lamingo clue what he's gona bring so I can't prepare".

> > >

> > > It's just adding to the no-counterplay factor on holo, bring back balance!

> >

> > You can just hardswitch the weapon from the inventory too before the game, it literally makes no difference...

> >

> > The Holo hate has just become borderline irrational, in the PvP someone wanted to tell me that stabi from Corona scales with amounts of targets hit and here this bs is being made up.

>

> The stability from Corona Burst _does_ scale with the amount of targets hit...

 

It did for a while, but that was a bug they fixed.

[Chaith.8256]

> @"AngelsShadow.7360" said:

> No, the Corona Burst bug (stability stack per hit as opposed to just 1 stack per hit max) was introduced sometime in August from my memory - I can't search discord logs atm. It was returned to its previous state of 2 stacks maximum per corona burst usage.

>

> Holo was never able to get 1 stack per player hit prior to this bug existing.

 

Yup. A lot of big brains ITT distributing wrong info

[Chaith.8256]

> @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> I'm not trying to dig at you but you didn't know you could blast a single Healing Turret water field on Prot Holo upwards of 8 times consistently (or more with some utility changes)... I had to make a video to prove it to you even though I have significantly less time played on this class in comparison.

 

Yeah that's a pretty cheap shot. Comboing 6 times instead of 3 is pointless. I have never fancied Sword/Shield &Thumper Turret Holo builds, and then saving all mobility, defensive, stunbreaks and the entire thumper turret cooldown purely to blast extra healing. I have spent more hours than anyone theorycrafting Engi probably.. but I draw the line before I would've come up with that.

 

 

[shadowpass.4236]

> @"Chaith.8256" said:

> > @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > I'm not trying to dig at you but you didn't know you could blast a single Healing Turret water field on Prot Holo upwards of 8 times consistently (or more with some utility changes)... I had to make a video to prove it to you even though I have significantly less time played on this class in comparison.

>

> Yeah that's a pretty cheap shot. Comboing 6 times instead of 3 is pointless. I have never fancied Sword/Shield &Thumper Turret Holo builds, and then saving all mobility, defensive, stunbreaks and the entire thumper turret cooldown purely to blast extra healing. I have spent more hours than anyone theorycrafting Engi probably.. but I draw the line before I would've come up with that.

>

>

 

"But you claim to play Holo? Log in for one second, go to the center of the 16 Champion Target Golems in the mists, and use Corona Burst"

 

About a week ago, the last time I had the chance to play, Corona Burst granted stab per target hit. It has been this way for months. Judging by the fact you asked, "Which patch?" fixed the bug, you seemed to have believed it never granted anything more than a max of 2.

 

Also, the multiple leaps/blast finishers is meant to heal you AND your teammates. Blowing all of those cooldowns on yourself is overkill. Having the option to massively heal/condi cleanse your allies in a team fight on a non-support build/class is very useful. Prot Holo also has more sustained damage than Tools Holo, way more survivability, more mobility, and can debuff the enemy team in an AoE. The only areas Prot Holo loses to Tools Holo is in burst and stealth.

[Chaith.8256]

> @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > @"Chaith.8256" said:

> > > @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > > I'm not trying to dig at you but you didn't know you could blast a single Healing Turret water field on Prot Holo upwards of 8 times consistently (or more with some utility changes)... I had to make a video to prove it to you even though I have significantly less time played on this class in comparison.

> >

> > Yeah that's a pretty cheap shot. Comboing 6 times instead of 3 is pointless. I have never fancied Sword/Shield &Thumper Turret Holo builds, and then saving all mobility, defensive, stunbreaks and the entire thumper turret cooldown purely to blast extra healing. I have spent more hours than anyone theorycrafting Engi probably.. but I draw the line before I would've come up with that.

> >

> >

>

> "But you claim to play Holo? Log in for one second, go to the center of the 16 Champion Target Golems in the mists, and use Corona Burst"

>

> About a week ago, the last time I had the chance to play, Corona Burst granted stab per target hit. It has been this way for months. Judging by the fact you asked, "Which patch?" fixed the bug, you seemed to have believed it never granted anything more than a max of 2.

>

> Also, the multiple leaps/blast finishers is meant to heal you AND your teammates. Blowing all of those cooldowns on yourself is overkill. Having the option to massively heal/condi cleanse your allies in a team fight on a non-support build/class is very useful. Prot Holo also has more sustained damage than Tools Holo, way more survivability, more mobility, and can debuff the enemy team in an AoE. The only areas Prot Holo loses to Tools Holo is in burst and stealth.

 

The main problem I saw here was that you and Mortralis were implying Holosmith stability always scaled with targets hit, no mention of a recent bug, and it wasn't in the game when you were currently claiming it was. I'm not sorry for objecting, what do you want?

 

> @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> The "bug" has been in the game since Path of Fire came out.

 

Like no, sit down.

[shadowpass.4236]

> @"Chaith.8256" said:

> The main problem I saw here was that you and Mortralis were implying Holosmith stability always scaled with targets hit, no mention of a recent bug, and it wasn't in the game when you were currently claiming it was. I'm not sorry for objecting, what do you want?

> Like no, sit down.

 

I don't play this game every day. The last time I touched it (about a week ago), Corona Burst still applied stability per target hit. I want you to understand this instead of shoving it down my throat.

 

And no, don't tell me to "sit down." when you say stuff like this:

 

> @"Chaith.8256" said:

> 6-8 leaps/blasts in a single water field that lasts 3 seconds, wow, OP! My only question is how do you fit 6-8 seconds of casts & aftercasts into 3 seconds?

 

You've been the Engi main whose "spent more hours than anyone theorycrafting Engi" and somehow overlooked the fact that it's possible to blast more than 8 times in a single, short duration water field? Okay, sure. Maybe you weren't as thorough as you would've liked to believe, but I'm not here rubbing it in over and over again.

 

I literally said, "I'm not trying to dig at you" and lightly pointed out the fact that I knew something about engi you didn't. Not to mention you didn't realize it was patched out in November either. So you can chill with the snark. I'm not here attacking anyone. If you want to fact-check me, that's fine. But don't go around saying stuff to undermine me like, "Hurr but I thought you claimed to play Engi." just because my info is slightly outdated.

 

[Look.](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1092442/#Comment_1092442) My response to you was quite civil considering the fact that you had an attitude right off the bat. It would be nice if you were considerate enough to show me the same respect. (If anything, considering the fact that we're both veteran PvPers, with thousands of hours on this game, who've both been playing since release. I hope you would trust me enough to _at least_ give me the benefit of the doubt when I say something.)

[Bossun.2046]

i don't really play Holo much at all, but i never really had a problem vs them when on my weeb or Slb. the reveal is pretty annoying but doesnt really make a difference unless I am trying to flee a 1v2 in ez modo. and as for their stealth, just don't shift your focus from them so you can catch them when they come out of it.

[Chaith.8256]

> @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> I don't play this game every day. The last time I touched it (about a week ago)

 

I don't care that you've been away for a week, heck, I've been away from Holosmith pretty much the entire time it was bugged.

 

 

The point is that I just quoted you saying Holosmith got multiple stability stacks as a bug since PoF came out, when instead of being misinformed for 1 week, you've been misinformed for 2yrs

 

 

 

[Falan.1839]

> @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > @"toxic.3648" said:

> > this 10 stack of stab seems wierd to me. if it was a bug then it must have been a pretty quick fixed one, ive never seen this before when i played. then again, if corona burst did give 1 stack for 5 targets then u would have 10 stack of stab for 0,45 second with demo/leadership since thats all the duration overlap from the 2 waves of stab allow.

> > unless u run deviner ofc xD

> >

> > meh i dunno, dosnt seem "game-changing" to me.

>

> The "bug" has been in the game since Path of Fire came out.

>

> iirc the downtime in stability uptime if the Holo used Corona Burst off cooldown was less than a second.

 

The stability uptime was reduced in March from 4 to 2 seconds. The additional stacks were, as it was stated, a bug that wasn't in the game for that long and has been fixed a while ago. Also with the nerfed duration I would even doubt it was very significant, since it barely makes sense to blow CCs into a 2sec stab regardless of stack amount. I mean sure, we can discuss old metas, but what's the point? Might aswell hate on Scourge because it instacorrupted and spammed ridiculous condi burst 2 years ago after PoF release...

 

Right now the stability access on the Elixir Holo is 1 second on Eli and 2 seconds on traited Corona, a bit lengthened by boon duration. If that is op, then Idk anymore...

[shadowpass.4236]

> @"Chaith.8256" said:

> > @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > I don't play this game every day. The last time I touched it (about a week ago)

>

> I don't care that you've been away for a week, heck, I've been away from Holosmith pretty much the entire time it was bugged.

>

>

> The point is that I just quoted you saying Holosmith got multiple stability stacks as a bug since PoF came out, when instead of being misinformed for 1 week, you've been misinformed for 2yrs

>

>

>

 

Yeah I was wrong about the timeframe. I mixed up Corona Burst granting stab even when not-hitting any enemies as part of this. I mentioned it's been bugged for as long as I can remember/several months because I played at PoF release, took a break for almost a year, then came back a few months ago and every time, CB has had issues.

Whoops. :P

[shadowpass.4236]

> @"Falan.1839" said:

> The stability uptime was reduced in March from 4 to 2 seconds. The additional stacks were, as it was stated, a bug that wasn't in the game for that long and has been fixed a while ago. Also with the nerfed duration I would even doubt it was very significant, since it barely makes sense to blow CCs into a 2sec stab regardless of stack amount. I mean sure, we can discuss old metas, but what's the point? Might aswell hate on Scourge because it instacorrupted and spammed ridiculous condi burst 2 years ago after PoF release...

>

> Right now the stability access on the Elixir Holo is 1 second on Eli and 2 seconds on traited Corona, a bit lengthened by boon duration. If that is op, then Idk anymore...

 

Okay clearly you're not reading what I'm saying.

 

I'm fine with _buffing_ stab duration on Elixir U and Corona Burst as long as the latter has both stacks moved to the initial attack.

I'm fine with removing the self-CC on Overcharged Shot as long as the knockback has a 1/2 second cast time and visible animation.

 

Lock On and Toss Elixir S need to get straight nerfed... remove the former's on-hit proc and increase the cooldown to 30 seconds, the latter should have it's stealth duration lowered to 3 seconds. Net Shot _should_ have a cast time because 2 seconds of immobilize with no tell is extremely deadly in many scenarios (especially since it's only on a 9 second cooldown). Healing Turret needs a very minor, 1/4 second cast time increase so that people without instant cast, ranged CCs can interrupt it if they react extremely quickly. Blunderbuss needs a very minor, 1/4 second cast time increase and visible animation so people can _dodge it._ Photon Forge autos need to have their ranged brought back down to match Reaper auto range (170) at the very least... 240 range is completely insane.

 

Like honestly, rifle 2-4 are basically unavoidable if the Holo has quickness and times his skills in melee range. Considering 2 of them prevent dodges/CC and one can chunk for a pretty significant amount of damage, it's too strong. Holo also has multiple ways to easily reset a fight/escape a bad situation even after the removal of passive Elixir S. For Lock On, the on-hit proc is the one causing the most issues. It literally just rewards the Holo without any ounce of thought or effort required.

[Falan.1839]

Honestly, just no. These things are just further nerfs for a build that has already been nerfed out of viability in ATs. Maybe it makes sense from a Core Ranger perspective since that is one of the few matchups that are still in Holo's favour, but if you have a realistic look at how holos on equal skillevel now get pummeled by pretty much every meta spec in 1v1 (Weaver, Rev, Mirage, Spellbreaker, Symbolbrand, even Core Nec and damn PW thief) while just being a budget rev in teamfights without ports and ways to cover its dps with defensive utilites or survive focus, then further nerfs are just not the way to go. Casting times on the rifle skills would just mean the hits I land on a competent rev jumping me and juggling his cooldowns are zero, because rifle 3 and 4 are pretty much the only thing I ever land in those fights where I get ported on and then dragged through a myriad of blocks, blinds. dodges, instant casts, dps skills covered by dodge frames and dps absorbing heals.

 

Toning down stealth and escape tools would have been a good choice if the last nerfs hadn't happened, but they have. You pick up the few viable mechanics that Holo still has and pretend that this would existent in isolation. Sure Blunderbuss is almost impossible to dodge, but so is Rev F2 and Song of the Mists, each hitting with further procs. Last time I ran into Tramadex I got bombed from 16k to 10 just by these instant AoEs while I was standing on one of the parkour obstacles on Coliseum and he hadn't even engaged in melee yet and wasn't even in line of sight. Sure, Healing Turret isn't easy to rupt, but then again FB mantra can't be rupted at all and glint heal can't either once the signet is precasted. Rifle 4 is hard to dodge, while Gale is impossible to dodge, lasts 3 seconds and on top of that it's unblockable and a dps proc can be traited onto it. But apparently all these things are fine and okay, cause it's not Holo. At least that's the message I seem to be getting from those holo whine-threads in this forum for years now.

 

Any further nerfs on holo would just be the Chronomancer treatment, aka complete deletion from PvP, with the fine difference that Mesmer has both a viable core build and another elite spec to fall back upon, while Scrapper and Core Engi are already trash tier.

 

[shadowpass.4236]

> @"Falan.1839" said:

> Honestly, just no. These things are just further nerfs for a build that has already been nerfed out of viability in ATs. Maybe it makes sense from a Core Ranger perspective since that is one of the few matchups that are still in Holo's favour, but if you have a realistic look at how holos on equal skillevel now get pummeled by pretty much every meta spec in 1v1 (Weaver, Rev, Mirage, Spellbreaker, Symbolbrand, even Core Nec and kitten PW thief) while just being a budget rev in teamfights without ports and ways to cover its dps with defensive utilites or survive focus, then further nerfs are just not the way to go. Casting times on the rifle skills would just mean the hits I land on a competent rev jumping me and juggling his cooldowns are zero, because rifle 3 and 4 are pretty much the only thing I ever land in those fights where I get ported on and then dragged through a myriad of blocks, blinds. dodges, instant casts, dps skills covered by dodge frames and dps absorbing heals.

>

> Toning down stealth and escape tools would have been a good choice if the last nerfs hadn't happened, but they have. You pick up the few viable mechanics that Holo still has and pretend that this would existent in isolation. Sure Blunderbuss is almost impossible to dodge, but so is Rev F2 and Song of the Mists, each hitting with further procs. Last time I ran into Tramadex I got bombed from 16k to 10 just by these instant AoEs while I was standing on one of the parkour obstacles on Coliseum and he hadn't even engaged in melee yet and wasn't even in line of sight. Sure, Healing Turret isn't easy to rupt, but then again FB mantra can't be rupted at all and glint heal can't either once the signet is precasted. Rifle 4 is hard to dodge, while Gale is impossible to dodge, lasts 3 seconds and on top of that it's unblockable and a dps proc can be traited onto it. But apparently all these things are fine and okay, cause it's not Holo. At least that's the message I seem to be getting from those holo whine-threads in this forum for years now.

>

> Any further nerfs on holo would just be the Chronomancer treatment, aka complete deletion from PvP, with the fine difference that Mesmer has both a viable core build and another elite spec to fall back upon, while Scrapper and Core Engi are already trash tier.

>

 

Look at this 1v2 I had vs. a meta tools holo and core mantra mes. The Holo is probably the best DH player atm (imo) and a very solid player overall. I outplayed him pretty hard in the outnumbered fight even though he passively revealed me 3x and was able to Toss Elixir S and completely reset before I could kill him. I had my interrupt ready but Toss Elixir S has such a short cast time I couldn't prevent it. If Lock On didn't reveal on-hit and Toss Elixir S had a longer cast time/shorter stealth, I probably would've killed them both. I even got the decap.

 

[Undo.5091]

Why is you being unable to kill in a 1v2 relevant (to what Falan is saying)? I’m not trying to be mean, but no one cares about the clip. Holo just isn’t in a spot where it should be nerfed right now — unless this upcoming balance patch can properly tackle everything at once. There are far greater cancers out there in the meantime.

[shadowpass.4236]

> @"Undo.5091" said:

> Why is you being unable to kill in a 1v2 relevant (to what Falan is saying)? I’m not trying to be mean, but no one cares about the clip. Holo just isn’t in a spot where it should be nerfed right now — unless this upcoming balance patch can properly tackle everything at once. There are far greater cancers out there in the meantime.

 

Answer these two questions:

 

1. Do you think the 3 times the Holo revealed me required any thought or skill?

2. Do you think an ability that grants 6 seconds of stealth every 30 seconds (that is impossible to reactively interrupt much less see the animation for) that allows Holos to completely break combat and reset fights twice every minute, requires any thought or skill?

 

The point of the video was to showcase how passive and easy Lock On creates massive amounts of value in a fight as well as how completely easymode Toss Elixir S is. In terms of personal performance, Toss Elixir S outperforms a fully traited Mass Invisibility in almost every way possible.

 

You guys aren't reading what I'm saying. I'm fine with Holo receiving buffs IF toxic, no-skill traits/abilities like the ones I've listed in my OP get addressed first. Part of the reason why GW2 PvP is so hard for new players to get into is because skills that hit hard/hard CC them don't always have visible animations. In other words, there's nothing they can learn from after they die because there's nothing there for them to see in the first place. It's just bad design. By all means, you guys can keep on defending lame ass mechanics like these and continue to encourage low-skill gameplay. The only outcome in this scenario will be GW2 continuing to stagnate and gradually decline.

[Vagrant.7206]

> @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > @"Undo.5091" said:

> > Why is you being unable to kill in a 1v2 relevant (to what Falan is saying)? I’m not trying to be mean, but no one cares about the clip. Holo just isn’t in a spot where it should be nerfed right now — unless this upcoming balance patch can properly tackle everything at once. There are far greater cancers out there in the meantime.

>

> The point of the video was to showcase how passive and easy Lock On creates massive amounts of value in a fight as well as how completely easymode Toss Elixir S is. In terms of personal performance, Toss Elixir S outperforms a fully traited Mass Invisibility in almost every way possible.

 

You literally stealthed about 5-6 times in the course of that engagement, but complain about the holo stealthing once. If anything, Hunter's Shot needs to be nerfed based on what I saw in that video.

 

And yes, the lock on sure is annoying for someone who stealths frequently, but that's kind of the point.