A rant: More and more players have not very fair behavior

[Faaris.8013]

> @"Teofa Tsavo.9863" said:

> I try not to train mobs. It's just bad form. However, I have and will continue to train as much as I can onto obvious bot afk farmers, and I've done this for years.

 

So you are the neighborhood watch or self-proclaimed GW2 police? It's ok to report people you think are breaking the rules, it's not ok to play judge and arbitrarily execute punishment. I hope one of the people you grief sits at the screen and reports you for it.

 

> @"Nick Lentz.6982" said:

> The other one is when you or someone else is fighting a hero point or event boss and someone comes in at the last second to get credit.

>

> Those are rage feeders ::dizzy:

 

I've been on both sides, and it doesn't bother me if someone shows up right after I killed the mob of mobs and he can freely commune or was barely able to tag the champ for credit. I really don't think anyone stops and waits for another player to do the work before joining in, they probably just showed up in time (there are exceptions of course, but I give them the benefit of doubt).

[Purgatori.3645]

Every single player that has spent any reasonable amount of time in PVE is guilty of this .... sometimes you aggro and dont care, and sometimes you aggro and dont even know you've done it. We all have to deal with this ...

 

Rant noted .... but it wont change anything Im afraid :)

[IndigoSundown.5419]

I've been playing this game for 5+ years. I've seen players training mobs for most of that time. What I observe is this:

 

1) Player moves past mob, gaining aggro.

2) Mob follows.

3) At some point (and this varies), the mob leashes, goes invulnerable, regens if damaged and starts back to its area.

4) At some point (and this can also vary) in its return journey, it can interrupt its return to attack or follow someone else (e.g., you're near its path, either on the way out or back). This can happen whether you've hit it or not. The invulnerability ends when (or very slightly after) it responds to another player's presence.

5) Some mobs seem to return all the way to the spot they were in before following the training player, some will abort the return sooner.

6) I've seen mobs attack a player as soon as it gets to him on its return journey, and I've seen them move past such a player, then turn and attack later.

 

My conclusions:

 

1) The script for "return to my area" includes the possibility of responding to secondary aggro on the way back. This suggests a "leash range" rather than a "leash spot."

2) Where in the return journey this happens seems to vary by mob. The variance may be due to the amount of room on its leash. For instance, Risen Acolytes, which have to my knowledge the largest aggro range in the vanilla game, also seemed to have the earliest return abort.

 

At this point, with PoF, I haven't seen enough mob behavior to verify whether the pattern is the same. So far what I've seen suggests that desert mobs are behaving pretty much as vanilla mobs do, and the longer aggro ranges seen on some PoF mobs also include earlier "return aborts due to secondary aggro."

 

> @Ameepa.6793 said:

> It's impossible to get anywhere without agroing mobs especially in maps like PoF that are filled with enemies with huge agro ranges and also it's impossible to get anywhere if stopping to kill everything that you happen to agro.

 

I cannot agree with those two statements.

 

1) While it's harder not to aggro mobs in PoF, it is still possible. It may be impossible if you want to go in a straight line, but in many circumstances that's a choice, not a requirement.

2) It's also possible to get where you're going if you stop to kill every mob. It may not be desirable if you are in a hurry.

[Urud.4925]

> @TEKnowledgy.1760 said:

> i told them you wont get my thank you till you res me fully because if you die while rezzing me then you didn't deserve the thank you lmao.

:D Because you don't say thank you for the thought, but for the service, right?

They died while trying, so they must have been noob, right? I mean, they died in that same spot where you also died. Those noobs.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @TEKnowledgy.1760 said:

> > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > There are all sorts of reasons that explain the OP's examples that don't involve rudeness.

> > * Player is trying to escape certain death and doesn't have much choice in it.

> > * Player doesn't realize just how long it takes before mobs 'leash' in PoF, i.e. how far they will chase.

> > * Player is trying to get OOC so they can re-mount and hasn't noticed much else.

> > * Player has "Turn Player Nameplates Off" to reduce visual clutter (or improve performance) and doesn't even realize there are other players nearby.

> > * Player has already helped others in that area with the same sets of mobs and has earned some time to help themselves.

> >

> > I'm sure there are players that simply don't care and I'm sure that there are trolls. But without evidence beyond "they ran thataway," I don't think it's fair to condemn others without taking the time to learn the circumstances.

>

> Opinions don't necessarily need proof. Like atheist his/her opinion god doesn't exist nor can he/she prove it and Christians opinion is god does exist but also equally can't prove it.

> last i checked stating opinion on the forum is completely fine as long as it's not pointing a finger directly at another specific person say by name in a shaming or aggressive way. So honestly, it's just as fair as your own opinion to it not being fair.

 

The OP isn't just offering an opinion, they have made specific factual claims:

 

> @"Dreamy Lu.3865" said:

> Since a while, there are more and more players who, when they have foes running after them (that they did aggro while farming or else), run by other players by, put those foes "on" the other players and happily leave without caring to help at the fight they have caused. This is getting worse since mounts are used. I find this behavior unfair and unacceptable. Maybe I am old fashion? Could be. But well, I do not like that and as I witness it more and more often, on a daily basis, I need to complain about. :3

 

* The OP claimed that this is happening more often & "getting worse."

* They claimed that players "happily leave without caring"

* They claimed that these players caused the fight.

 

Their opinion is, in part, based on assuming those as facts. They then use that opinion to condemn other players.

 

It's besides the point that this doesn't break any forum rules. The OP is trying to state as fact something that they believe, when there are many other plausible explanations for the behavior. They are further criticizing people's behavior without having taken the time to find out what's really going on, which is ironically exactly what upsets them (others doing what seems to make sense for them, without worrying about the impact on others).

 

I have no problem with the OP saying that they don't like when people hit & run. I do have a problem with them making claims about its frequency, about whether mounts have made it worse, and about suggesting that it's the only possible explanation for what they are seeing.

 

 

 

[Djinn.9245]

> @Purgatori.3645 said:

> Every single player that has spent any reasonable amount of time in PVE is guilty of this .... sometimes you aggro and dont care, and sometimes you aggro and dont even know you've done it. We all have to deal with this ...

>

> Rant noted .... but it wont change anything Im afraid :)

 

Fortunately you don't actually know anything about "every single player". So "sometimes you aggro and dont care, and sometimes you aggro and dont even know you've done it" is only you speaking about you.

[Djinn.9245]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

 

> * They claimed that these players caused the fight.

 

Players who train mobs to others ARE the cause of the fight. Not sure where the confusion about this lies.

>

> I have no problem with the OP saying that they don't like when people hit & run. I do have a problem with them making claims about its frequency, about whether mounts have made it worse, and about suggesting that it's the only possible explanation for what they are seeing.

 

While I agree that people shouldn't state opinions as facts, in my experience mounts have made training mobs worse. As well as made it less likely that players will dismount to help others whether they caused a problem or not.

[The Revenant.4970]

This porridge is too damn hot!

[AegisRunestone.8672]

I always dismount to rez downed players. It may put me in danger, but rezzing downed players has been a thing since GW2 came out.

[Cleopatra.4068]

In the PoF maps it seems like I end up with trains following me way more than I did in other maps. Half the time I don't even notice I have acquired a train until I stop running for whatever reason. I think it's a combo of larger aggro radius and faster speed. Mounts let me run fast enough that the mobs chasing me cannot actually hit me until I slow down or stop. Since they aggro from farther away as well, I don't even notice they were ever following me to begin with.

 

I know there has been at least one instance where I accidentally dumped a train on someone. I didn't do it on purpose, and when I noticed what I had done I ran back and helped kill them all. I only noticed I had done it because I needed to talk to an NPC nearby though, and had my camera turned in a way that showed what was happening behind me. There is no telling how many times I have done the same thing by accident and not even noticed that it happened.

 

I still stop and res people whenever I see the little blue markers on the map. Mounts haven't made me any more evil than I was before I had them.

[pah.4931]

> @crashburntoo.7431 said:

 

> EDIT: @"pah.4931" Just saw your post, EQ trains could get insane! I was the dead Froglok that didn't make it... every time.

 

I was the necromancer (still am!) who couldn't WAIT to get Spectre form to scare lowbies in the Oasis of Marr.

[Cyprien.4208]

I and everyone else actively go out of our way to push mobs on people... not really. it sometimes happens and most people will try to help. I even help people with skill events even when I don't need it. There still some good people.

[Ashantara.8731]

Yes, ignorant behavior is (unfortunately) growing in our society, especially among youngsters. And of course that rubs off on online games as well, especially since f2p accounts were introduced.

[Noa.7490]

> @Ohoni.6057 said:

> That's less a problem with player behavior, and more a problem with how the mobs are designed.

 

True. Especially in PoF where mobs stand at a very close range of waypoints.

[DearlyMe.5320]

Maybe. But like I've seen some others say, sometimes it's not intentional. I get mob dropped a few times a month of playing every day. It's so infrequent for me and usually not the one person constantly doing it, I just growl once in irritation, clean up the mess, and move on. Likewise, mount or not, if I drag things near someone, I'll take care of the mob.

I get it, though. I've ranted at my friends about this thing more than once. I make it a habit not to idle or afk near a spot I know is too near enemies. If I do, it's because I'm looking or messing with something quick. So half paying attention to my screen when it does happen. I've been in MMOs where it's a rule not to do this. I found that stressful. You're constantly watching and making sure no one is around. You could drag a mob from one side of the map to the other. You were also penalized if you died by losing 1% exp where it could have taken a few minutes or more to get in the first place. I just remember could be worse and that the dropped mob is just more money. I'm too new not to pass up the chance of more loot.

[TEKnowledgy.1760]

> @Ameepa.6793 said:

> > @TEKnowledgy.1760 said:

>

> > i told them you wont get my thank you till you res me fully because if you die while rezzing me then you didn't deserve the thank you lmao.

>

> Sooo if someone comes to ress you and dies trying help, they do not even deserve a "thank you"? That's nice attitude..

>

>

 

you missed what i said they literally said no thank you no res, really? Their attitude needs the adjustment it's part of the game if it wasn't be no res at all. my point flew entirely over your head If you going to quote me quote it all or move on past me.

[TEKnowledgy.1760]

> @Urud.4925 said:

> > @TEKnowledgy.1760 said:

> > i told them you wont get my thank you till you res me fully because if you die while rezzing me then you didn't deserve the thank you lmao.

> :D Because you don't say thank you for the thought, but for the service, right?

> They died while trying, so they must have been noob, right? I mean, they died in that same spot where you also died. Those noobs.

 

What service? Last i checked we playing a game and ressing others is part of the game, they want to res me cool beans man. if not np like i said i know where the wp is. Begging some one or conning them into hey "If you dont thank me i wont res you fully" like seriously, I always ty someone that resses me but saying crap like that like they literally want you to kiss their rumps for a res? hahahaha yea my point also flew over your head aswell, as i said to other guy quote it all or hold your peace.

I mean when you in an event someone dies, do you not res them rather they give ty or not? Most do and don't think nothing of it, just want that player to get back in the fight.

 

I've rezed alot of people never got a thank you, doesn't matter to me if they do or not it's part of the game. But begging for a thank you or holding a carrot in front of you saying "no ty no res" is lame like some sorta entitled brat stuff. You want my ty don't beg for it in a literal way. I never asked the person to res me anyways. Most people do it because they good people and/or players not because they want thank yous. I mean do you write down how many thank yous you accumulate in gw2 on a daily basis? Are you trying to have some narcissistic competition with others on acquiring thank yous? I mean if you res people just to get thank yous then you ressing people wrongly do you seriously expect a thank you for taking part in basic game play mechanics? Explain again how this is a service.

Service is more for a request for it. You need to dictionary what "service" means.

I'm not sure where you got noobs from lmao now you just trying put words in my mouth for slander-ish purposes and/or taking what i said completely out of context and twisting it around to fit your perspective.

[Nihevil.8024]

I intentionally try to murder others, especially afkers.

[blambidy.3216]

Honestly I've never even thought of that. However when I see mobs coming at me and then the actual player starts fighting, that's when I stop and help. But if they arent reacting I keep going because I assume they are also running out the way. I will say this. Within this game there are so many mobs it's too much time to always kill every single mob, especially when lost. Or when you are very interested in your story. However if the other person is standing there and isn't fighting back I'm saying that's the person's fault. Why are you in this game watching mobs run at a person and being defenseless? Ether run to get away from the mob, fight or die. However me personally I will help kill the mobs. Not speaking for everyone though. I can see your point but I've never been frustrated for people also doing it because I do it everyday all day. However I'v played this game for 2 years so it's not because of mounts. It's just a habbit when you want to get things done. When getting mats. Finding events. Etc. It's just what we do lol. But I don't think it's cause of mounts. Because with my first character ranger I would just run. Then glide and then only if I felt I needed to take out a mob I would attack. But if I feel like I'm gonna run. I'll just run. I can see your frustration. But if you think you need help killing a mob just map chat help and someone is always considerate to help.

[Glacial.9516]

This certainly can be frustrating design and it happens everywhere that mobs spawn too close to 'safe zones' (typically WPs, but sometimes camps with NPCs in them). I know these aren't technically safe zones, but I think it's a fair enough assumption that you shouldn't be engaged by mobs upon entering a zone and upon WPing, or if you're close enough to interact with (most) NPCs . Personally, I'd like for mobs to reset properly if there are no other players on their aggro list when the primary target strays too far. I know it's not intentional (I'd never blame a player for it unless they do it repeatedly) and I'm sure I've done it to people too without realizing but it's frustrating from both sides when it happens. I don't want to die/be placed into combat because of someone else's carelessness, and I wouldn't want another to be inconvenienced because of mine.

 

I do notice this more often in PoF. Not necessarily **because** of mounts but more likely due to mob aggro and attack range. I would speculate that mounts may even reduce errant aggroing because you'll be out of range faster and the mob will disengage sooner (though mounts may also discourage players from dismounting to assist when it does happen). In particular I see it happen very often at the Skimmer heart WP. There is a set of 2 or 3 mobs that spawn a short distance away and if anyone strays too close (just a bit west from the WP) they will move into range and attack everyone at the WP.

[HazyDaisy.4107]

In the same way that there's more mobs being lead to other players, there are also more afk players standing around for these mobs.

 

It's really not the responsibility of the one tooling along on his/her mount to stop and defend someone that decided the middle of a heavily patrolled walk path would be a good place to take a phone call. The blame for this issue is really double sided most times.

[Drecien.4508]

Some people may have the settings turned down low and your toon doesn't appear as they are mounting past really fast... Justsayin

[Joxer.6024]

> @Ohoni.6057 said:

> That's less a problem with player behavior, and more a problem with how the mobs are designed.

 

A lot of this. With POF the aggro range is silly and they follow you for 2 weeks so yea, it can happen. Now, I have seen where people will kite the mobs to someone on purpose but its rare, and if by chance I do it I will run back and help the person as many times that toon is afk or looking at something else. Had it happen last night when I ran up to get a vista, glided over and then looked back and saw the Harpys that were on me eating someones face, so I went back and helped. So yea, it happens but I really don't think on purpose...that's just sucky playing if it does.

[Alga.6498]

> @Oldirtbeard.9834 said:

> I don't think anything of it, as long as you're not attacking them then you won't aggro them.

 

That's incorrect.

If I have aggro'ed an enemy, I will run pass you, or use you as my bodyguard (go behind you and literally lure the mob to go towards you, without you attacking it) which the enemy will attack instead since you're in it's reach.

That has happened many times, and that's that OP meant.

 

As for downed or defeated players, I always, **always** hurry myself to get there and try to rescue them. Sometimes when ppl are defeated and you're ressing them, they just go to a wp, <_<

But most of the time they are thankful :)

[Rennie.6750]

If only mobs didn't insist to follow us to the other end of the map, maybe there would be no such case of accidental griefing.

 

What really annoys me to no end though is having to clear a bunch of trash I pulled to a heart NPC or some random crowded area with AFK players, because I don't want to have them spend a few silver. The devs have been very fond of veteran HP sponges lately in open world or instances and this is just aggravating.