Deihnyx.6318 Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Yeah... Build templates are a much more demanded feature... why waste dev time on stuff that only bother a few people when a solution (join group or not) already exist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Hilton.4623 Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 From the original post: 1. **"I accept that players have different goals and big succesful game like Guild Wars 2 should provide content and tools for different groups of players. Therefore I agree that DPS meter has its uses and there are people who benefit from using it and I am not going to advocate for 100% deletion of this tool." ** I agree there are those who like it and those who don't. I think the group advertisement suggestion works for this so the two types don't have to try to butt heads over it. (Also just repointing this out since some are still accusing OP of wanting them banned). 2. **"It should be limited to personal DPS only unless other players agree to share their numbers from the tool."** I don't really know the ins and outs of how this works but I will point out that in some games you can choose whether or not someone can view your gear. Isn't this sort of along the same lines? Maybe it's not unheard of or completely unreasonable to request. Edit: I'm bad at this it doesn't want me to be able to bold the first part..sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Since when is the dps numbers private? Its not your data its Arena net's. Compairing it to your house ir you cellphone makes no sense because u owe these things. Ur stats or dmg or buff output in a raid a fractal or w/e is not your to choose to hide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Javelin.7960 Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 > @TexZero.7910 said: > > @Javelin.7960 said: > > I don't think anyone in this thread is a senior developer or producer for this game. None of us are making resource allocation decisions, so feel free to 'dream big'. As a concept, absent any resource constraints, would you have a problem with a programmatic solution that addressed the concern and allowed individual accounts to disable DPS metering for their toons, provided their status in that regard was publicly provided prior to joining a group/squad/whatever? > > > > I just don't see why anyone would have a problem with that, rationales used to justify it notwithstanding. > > Why ? > > If you absolutely do not want DPS meters, don't install one and don't join groups that use them. It's the much simpler approach and requires significantly less overhead. > Sorry if you don't like my liberal nature when it comes to programming but there's never been a need to add more checks when a human system already exist. I asked a simple question, one I've asked repeatedly and apparently has people so terrified they'll say about anything to avoid answering it. It's a conceptual question, not a resource question, not a question of practicality. The current status of things isn't relevant to it, it's about of how things could be, not how things are today. I get it though, if I were some of you I'd not want to admit I'm opposed to my fellow players having a choice that wouldn't impact me negatively, it's not the sort of opinion people want to broadcast about themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deihnyx.6318 Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 > @Javelin.7960 said: > > @TexZero.7910 said: > > > @Javelin.7960 said: > > > I don't think anyone in this thread is a senior developer or producer for this game. None of us are making resource allocation decisions, so feel free to 'dream big'. As a concept, absent any resource constraints, would you have a problem with a programmatic solution that addressed the concern and allowed individual accounts to disable DPS metering for their toons, provided their status in that regard was publicly provided prior to joining a group/squad/whatever? > > > > > > I just don't see why anyone would have a problem with that, rationales used to justify it notwithstanding. > > > > Why ? > > > > If you absolutely do not want DPS meters, don't install one and don't join groups that use them. It's the much simpler approach and requires significantly less overhead. > > Sorry if you don't like my liberal nature when it comes to programming but there's never been a need to add more checks when a human system already exist. > > I asked a simple question, one I've asked repeatedly and apparently has people so terrified they'll say about anything to avoid answering it. It's a conceptual question, not a resource question, not a question of practicality. The current status of things isn't relevant to it, it's about of how things could be, not how things are today. > > I get it though, if I were some of you I'd not want to admit I'm opposed to my fellow players having a choice that wouldn't impact me negatively, it's not the sort of opinion people want to broadcast about themselves. I'm not opposed to anything including enabled/disabled dps meters, but your answer sounds a lot more like someone who's ignoring/refusing the fact that you already have a choice, as said and repeated many times. You're free to believe what you want, though. (btw: you're doing strawman yourself at the end, how great is it...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhanoa.3960 Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 > @Deihnyx.6318 said: > > Talking about banning players who are using something that has been okayed by anet is ridiculous. This is the best part about your comment. Why? ANET also okayed the way all these Professions can be played to our liking nor is it limited to META or METERS. The players allowed and created the inefficiencies of builds subjecting players into being poor performers. I am not here to maximize my Professions, if this is what I really wanted I would go back to other games that have allowed players to be measured this way. * You want to be an Engineer w/Turret build that's great! Does it do great DPS, probably not. * However, do you know the mechanics of the fight? Yes? Great! * Do you know how to dodge and avoid taking unnecessary DMG? Yes? Great! * It's going to be a long fight, but it's SO WORTH IT! You're my kind of WINGMAN! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deihnyx.6318 Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 > @Rhanoa.3960 said: > > @Deihnyx.6318 said: > > > > > Talking about banning players who are using something that has been okayed by anet is ridiculous. > > > This is the best part about your comment. > Why? ANET also okayed the way all these Professions can be played to our liking nor is it limited to META or METERS. > The players allowed and created the inefficiencies of builds subjecting players into being poor performers. > I am not here to maximize my Professions, if this is what I really wanted I would go back to other games that have allowed players to be measured this way. > > * You want to be an Engineer w/Turret build that's great! Does it do great DPS, probably not. > * However, do you know the mechanics of the fight? Yes? Great! > * Do you know how to dodge and avoid taking unnecessary DMG? Yes? Great! > * It's going to be a long fight, but it's SO WORTH IT! You're my kind of WINGMAN! > What does it have to do with anything? Where did you read it was not okay to play the builds you want? Yeah Anet okayed people discussing builds and agreeing on metas... you're gonna ban players for trying to optimize builds and encounters... Its not MANDATORY. Its only mandatory if you consider you should be able to join any group and you should never be allowed to be kicked. That is again ridiculous. I reacted to people wanting to ban over the use of allowed dps meter. Because yes this is ridiculous. You dont have to use them, you dont have to use meta builds, and you dont have to join groups that are being kitten about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhanoa.3960 Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 > @Deihnyx.6318 said: > > @Rhanoa.3960 said: > > > @Deihnyx.6318 said: > > > > > > > > Talking about banning players who are using something that has been okayed by anet is ridiculous. > > > > > > This is the best part about your comment. > > Why? ANET also okayed the way all these Professions can be played to our liking nor is it limited to META or METERS. > > The players allowed and created the inefficiencies of builds subjecting players into being poor performers. > > I am not here to maximize my Professions, if this is what I really wanted I would go back to other games that have allowed players to be measured this way. > > > > * You want to be an Engineer w/Turret build that's great! Does it do great DPS, probably not. > > * However, do you know the mechanics of the fight? Yes? Great! > > * Do you know how to dodge and avoid taking unnecessary DMG? Yes? Great! > > * It's going to be a long fight, but it's SO WORTH IT! You're my kind of WINGMAN! > > > > What does it have to do with anything? Where did you read it was not okay to play the builds you want? > > Yeah Anet okayed people discussing builds and agreeing on metas... you're gonna ban players for trying to optimize builds and encounters... > > Its not MANDATORY. Its only mandatory if you consider you should be able to join any group and you should never be allowed to be kicked. That is again ridiculous. > > I reacted to people wanting to ban over the use of allowed dps meter. Because yes this is ridiculous. You dont have to use them, you dont have to use meta builds, and you dont have to join groups that are being kitten about it. And here it's in true fashion! Somehow It's perfectly expectable in certain situations. THE RULE OF THUMB! MAKING THE EXCEPTION! Thank you for the gift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaqueFyre.5678 Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 > @Rhanoa.3960 said: > > @Deihnyx.6318 said: > > > > > Talking about banning players who are using something that has been okayed by anet is ridiculous. > > > This is the best part about your comment. > Why? ANET also okayed the way all these Professions can be played to our liking nor is it limited to META or METERS. > The players allowed and created the inefficiencies of builds subjecting players into being poor performers. > I am not here to maximize my Professions, if this is what I really wanted I would go back to other games that have allowed players to be measured this way. > > * You want to be an Engineer w/Turret build that's great! Does it do great DPS, probably not. > * However, do you know the mechanics of the fight? Yes? Great! > * Do you know how to dodge and avoid taking unnecessary DMG? Yes? Great! > * It's going to be a long fight, but it's SO WORTH IT! You're my kind of WINGMAN! > Again tell us what entitles you to force yourself onto others and entitles you to their time? Because right now all the tools exist to avoid elitists that like running Meta builds/comps and run Combat Meters, or gonna not answer the question again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deihnyx.6318 Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 > @Rhanoa.3960 said: > > @Deihnyx.6318 said: > > > @Rhanoa.3960 said: > > > > @Deihnyx.6318 said: > > > > > > > > > > > Talking about banning players who are using something that has been okayed by anet is ridiculous. > > > > > > > > > This is the best part about your comment. > > > Why? ANET also okayed the way all these Professions can be played to our liking nor is it limited to META or METERS. > > > The players allowed and created the inefficiencies of builds subjecting players into being poor performers. > > > I am not here to maximize my Professions, if this is what I really wanted I would go back to other games that have allowed players to be measured this way. > > > > > > * You want to be an Engineer w/Turret build that's great! Does it do great DPS, probably not. > > > * However, do you know the mechanics of the fight? Yes? Great! > > > * Do you know how to dodge and avoid taking unnecessary DMG? Yes? Great! > > > * It's going to be a long fight, but it's SO WORTH IT! You're my kind of WINGMAN! > > > > > > > What does it have to do with anything? Where did you read it was not okay to play the builds you want? > > > > Yeah Anet okayed people discussing builds and agreeing on metas... you're gonna ban players for trying to optimize builds and encounters... > > > > Its not MANDATORY. Its only mandatory if you consider you should be able to join any group and you should never be allowed to be kicked. That is again ridiculous. > > > > I reacted to people wanting to ban over the use of allowed dps meter. Because yes this is ridiculous. You dont have to use them, you dont have to use meta builds, and you dont have to join groups that are being kitten about it. > > And here it's in true fashion! Somehow It's perfectly expectable in certain situations. THE RULE OF THUMB! MAKING THE EXCEPTION! Thank you for the gift. > You're making no sense. I'm telling you people can do what they want, with the benediction of anet. That includes not using dps meters if they dont want to. I don't know what else to say at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Javelin.7960 Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 > @Deihnyx.6318 said: > > @Javelin.7960 said: > > > @TexZero.7910 said: > > > > @Javelin.7960 said: > > > > I don't think anyone in this thread is a senior developer or producer for this game. None of us are making resource allocation decisions, so feel free to 'dream big'. As a concept, absent any resource constraints, would you have a problem with a programmatic solution that addressed the concern and allowed individual accounts to disable DPS metering for their toons, provided their status in that regard was publicly provided prior to joining a group/squad/whatever? > > > > > > > > I just don't see why anyone would have a problem with that, rationales used to justify it notwithstanding. > > > > > > Why ? > > > > > > If you absolutely do not want DPS meters, don't install one and don't join groups that use them. It's the much simpler approach and requires significantly less overhead. > > > Sorry if you don't like my liberal nature when it comes to programming but there's never been a need to add more checks when a human system already exist. > > > > I asked a simple question, one I've asked repeatedly and apparently has people so terrified they'll say about anything to avoid answering it. It's a conceptual question, not a resource question, not a question of practicality. The current status of things isn't relevant to it, it's about of how things could be, not how things are today. > > > > I get it though, if I were some of you I'd not want to admit I'm opposed to my fellow players having a choice that wouldn't impact me negatively, it's not the sort of opinion people want to broadcast about themselves. > > I'm not opposed to anything including enabled/disabled dps meters, but your answer sounds a lot more like someone who's ignoring/refusing the fact that you already have a choice, as said and repeated many times. > You're free to believe what you want, though. > (btw: you're doing strawman yourself at the end, how great is it...) Things get pretty bogged down in a discussion when people won't give you a straight answer. This entire thread has basically gone like this: "I want a choice." "You don't need a choice." "I still want one." "You must suck if you want a choice. Get gud." "Maybe I do, but I still want a choice." "The thing you want a choice over, isn't a problem, because I said so." "Great opinion. I still want a choice." "Why don't you just quit, if you're so determined to have a choice?" "I could do that, but I'd rather just have a choice." "People are always going to be mean, so having a choice is pointless." "Why are you so opposed to me having a choice?" "Didn't you hear me the first time, stop wanting a choice!" "Not gonna happen." "Choices are impossible, it's never been done before. It would be expensive. Trust me." "Why are you so opposed to me having a choice again? I don't think you answered me the first time I asked." "This is dumb, just use the existing systems, even though obviously you don't think they're adequate or you wouldn't be asking for a choice....." "...." People have the right to express their opinions. It's obvious from this thread that quite a few players feel the existing systems aren't adequate to address this problem. So yes, I'm ignoring that suggestion because frankly it's the equivalent of saying 'If you don't like the rules, don't play.' I've got just as much right to enjoy this game as anyone else, and if I see something I think could be improved, I may decide to comment on it. Don't like it? Tough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhanoa.3960 Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 > @BlaqueFyre.5678 said: > > @Rhanoa.3960 said: > > > @Deihnyx.6318 said: > > > > > > > > Talking about banning players who are using something that has been okayed by anet is ridiculous. > > > > > > This is the best part about your comment. > > Why? ANET also okayed the way all these Professions can be played to our liking nor is it limited to META or METERS. > > The players allowed and created the inefficiencies of builds subjecting players into being poor performers. > > I am not here to maximize my Professions, if this is what I really wanted I would go back to other games that have allowed players to be measured this way. > > > > * You want to be an Engineer w/Turret build that's great! Does it do great DPS, probably not. > > * However, do you know the mechanics of the fight? Yes? Great! > > * Do you know how to dodge and avoid taking unnecessary DMG? Yes? Great! > > * It's going to be a long fight, but it's SO WORTH IT! You're my kind of WINGMAN! > > > > Again tell us what entitles you to force yourself onto others and entitles you to their time? > > Because right now all the tools exist to avoid elitists that like running Meta builds/comps and run Combat Meters, or gonna not answer the question again? > It's not my fault if you're unable to pull the answer out of the statement I already provided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaqueFyre.5678 Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 > @Javelin.7960 said: > > @Deihnyx.6318 said: > > > @Javelin.7960 said: > > > > @TexZero.7910 said: > > > > > @Javelin.7960 said: > > > > > I don't think anyone in this thread is a senior developer or producer for this game. None of us are making resource allocation decisions, so feel free to 'dream big'. As a concept, absent any resource constraints, would you have a problem with a programmatic solution that addressed the concern and allowed individual accounts to disable DPS metering for their toons, provided their status in that regard was publicly provided prior to joining a group/squad/whatever? > > > > > > > > > > I just don't see why anyone would have a problem with that, rationales used to justify it notwithstanding. > > > > > > > > Why ? > > > > > > > > If you absolutely do not want DPS meters, don't install one and don't join groups that use them. It's the much simpler approach and requires significantly less overhead. > > > > Sorry if you don't like my liberal nature when it comes to programming but there's never been a need to add more checks when a human system already exist. > > > > > > I asked a simple question, one I've asked repeatedly and apparently has people so terrified they'll say about anything to avoid answering it. It's a conceptual question, not a resource question, not a question of practicality. The current status of things isn't relevant to it, it's about of how things could be, not how things are today. > > > > > > I get it though, if I were some of you I'd not want to admit I'm opposed to my fellow players having a choice that wouldn't impact me negatively, it's not the sort of opinion people want to broadcast about themselves. > > > > I'm not opposed to anything including enabled/disabled dps meters, but your answer sounds a lot more like someone who's ignoring/refusing the fact that you already have a choice, as said and repeated many times. > > You're free to believe what you want, though. > > (btw: you're doing strawman yourself at the end, how great is it...) > > Things get pretty bogged down in a discussion when people won't give you a straight answer. This entire thread has basically gone like this: > > "I want a choice." > "You don't need a choice." > "I still want one." > "You must suck if you want a choice. Get gud." > "Maybe I do, but I still want a choice." > "The thing you want a choice over, isn't a problem, because I said so." > "Great opinion. I still want a choice." > "Why don't you just quit, if you're so determined to have a choice?" > "I could do that, but I'd rather just have a choice." > "People are always going to be mean, so having a choice is pointless." > "Why are you so opposed to me having a choice?" > "Didn't you hear me the first time, stop wanting a choice!" > "Not gonna happen." > "Choices are impossible, it's never been done before. It would be expensive. Trust me." > "Why are you so opposed to me having a choice again? I don't think you answered me the first time I asked." > "This is kitten, just use the existing systems, even though obviously you don't think they're adequate or you wouldn't be asking for a choice....." > "...." > > People have the right to express their opinions. It's obvious from this thread that quite a few players feel the existing systems aren't adequate to address this problem. So yes, I'm ignoring that suggestion because frankly it's the equivalent of saying 'If you don't like the rules, don't play.' I've got just as much right to enjoy this game as anyone else, and if I see something I think could be improved, I may decide to comment on it. Don't like it? Tough. There is a choice, it’s called the LFG postings and managing self created groups, blocking/reporting , pretty simple concept, go search the forums for the Stance Anet stated the choice is part of starting and joining groups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deihnyx.6318 Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 > @Javelin.7960 said: > > @Deihnyx.6318 said: > > > @Javelin.7960 said: > > > > @TexZero.7910 said: > > > > > @Javelin.7960 said: > > > > > I don't think anyone in this thread is a senior developer or producer for this game. None of us are making resource allocation decisions, so feel free to 'dream big'. As a concept, absent any resource constraints, would you have a problem with a programmatic solution that addressed the concern and allowed individual accounts to disable DPS metering for their toons, provided their status in that regard was publicly provided prior to joining a group/squad/whatever? > > > > > > > > > > I just don't see why anyone would have a problem with that, rationales used to justify it notwithstanding. > > > > > > > > Why ? > > > > > > > > If you absolutely do not want DPS meters, don't install one and don't join groups that use them. It's the much simpler approach and requires significantly less overhead. > > > > Sorry if you don't like my liberal nature when it comes to programming but there's never been a need to add more checks when a human system already exist. > > > > > > I asked a simple question, one I've asked repeatedly and apparently has people so terrified they'll say about anything to avoid answering it. It's a conceptual question, not a resource question, not a question of practicality. The current status of things isn't relevant to it, it's about of how things could be, not how things are today. > > > > > > I get it though, if I were some of you I'd not want to admit I'm opposed to my fellow players having a choice that wouldn't impact me negatively, it's not the sort of opinion people want to broadcast about themselves. > > > > I'm not opposed to anything including enabled/disabled dps meters, but your answer sounds a lot more like someone who's ignoring/refusing the fact that you already have a choice, as said and repeated many times. > > You're free to believe what you want, though. > > (btw: you're doing strawman yourself at the end, how great is it...) > > Things get pretty bogged down in a discussion when people won't give you a straight answer. This entire thread has basically gone like this: > > "I want a choice." > "You don't need a choice." > "I still want one." > "You must suck if you want a choice. Get gud." > "Maybe I do, but I still want a choice." > "The thing you want a choice over, isn't a problem, because I said so." > "Great opinion. I still want a choice." > "Why don't you just quit, if you're so determined to have a choice?" > "I could do that, but I'd rather just have a choice." > "People are always going to be mean, so having a choice is pointless." > "Why are you so opposed to me having a choice?" > "Didn't you hear me the first time, stop wanting a choice!" > "Not gonna happen." > "Choices are impossible, it's never been done before. It would be expensive. Trust me." > "Why are you so opposed to me having a choice again? I don't think you answered me the first time I asked." > "This is kitten, just use the existing systems, even though obviously you don't think they're adequate or you wouldn't be asking for a choice....." > "...." > > People have the right to express their opinions. It's obvious from this thread that quite a few players feel the existing systems aren't adequate to address this problem. So yes, I'm ignoring that suggestion because frankly it's the equivalent of saying 'If you don't like the rules, don't play.' I've got just as much right to enjoy this game as anyone else, and if I see something I think could be improved, I may decide to comment on it. Don't like it? Tough. My problem is that you're not considering the other side. Players wanting to play with it, wanting to make groups with pugs who also want it, and somehow they couldn't because some of you, for some reason (not judging what) dont want to join their dps train in the group that they made. Whereas the alternative is simple: making a group with your own rules. From my perspective, if you do that, you are the one forcing your fellow party members to play your way, effectively impacting their right to enjoy the game, in their own group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhanoa.3960 Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 > @BlaqueFyre.5678 said: > > @Javelin.7960 said: > > > @Deihnyx.6318 said: > > > > @Javelin.7960 said: > > > > > @TexZero.7910 said: > > > > > > @Javelin.7960 said: > > > > > > I don't think anyone in this thread is a senior developer or producer for this game. None of us are making resource allocation decisions, so feel free to 'dream big'. As a concept, absent any resource constraints, would you have a problem with a programmatic solution that addressed the concern and allowed individual accounts to disable DPS metering for their toons, provided their status in that regard was publicly provided prior to joining a group/squad/whatever? > > > > > > > > > > > > I just don't see why anyone would have a problem with that, rationales used to justify it notwithstanding. > > > > > > > > > > Why ? > > > > > > > > > > If you absolutely do not want DPS meters, don't install one and don't join groups that use them. It's the much simpler approach and requires significantly less overhead. > > > > > Sorry if you don't like my liberal nature when it comes to programming but there's never been a need to add more checks when a human system already exist. > > > > > > > > I asked a simple question, one I've asked repeatedly and apparently has people so terrified they'll say about anything to avoid answering it. It's a conceptual question, not a resource question, not a question of practicality. The current status of things isn't relevant to it, it's about of how things could be, not how things are today. > > > > > > > > I get it though, if I were some of you I'd not want to admit I'm opposed to my fellow players having a choice that wouldn't impact me negatively, it's not the sort of opinion people want to broadcast about themselves. > > > > > > I'm not opposed to anything including enabled/disabled dps meters, but your answer sounds a lot more like someone who's ignoring/refusing the fact that you already have a choice, as said and repeated many times. > > > You're free to believe what you want, though. > > > (btw: you're doing strawman yourself at the end, how great is it...) > > > > Things get pretty bogged down in a discussion when people won't give you a straight answer. This entire thread has basically gone like this: > > > > "I want a choice." > > "You don't need a choice." > > "I still want one." > > "You must suck if you want a choice. Get gud." > > "Maybe I do, but I still want a choice." > > "The thing you want a choice over, isn't a problem, because I said so." > > "Great opinion. I still want a choice." > > "Why don't you just quit, if you're so determined to have a choice?" > > "I could do that, but I'd rather just have a choice." > > "People are always going to be mean, so having a choice is pointless." > > "Why are you so opposed to me having a choice?" > > "Didn't you hear me the first time, stop wanting a choice!" > > "Not gonna happen." > > "Choices are impossible, it's never been done before. It would be expensive. Trust me." > > "Why are you so opposed to me having a choice again? I don't think you answered me the first time I asked." > > "This is kitten, just use the existing systems, even though obviously you don't think they're adequate or you wouldn't be asking for a choice....." > > "...." > > > > People have the right to express their opinions. It's obvious from this thread that quite a few players feel the existing systems aren't adequate to address this problem. So yes, I'm ignoring that suggestion because frankly it's the equivalent of saying 'If you don't like the rules, don't play.' I've got just as much right to enjoy this game as anyone else, and if I see something I think could be improved, I may decide to comment on it. Don't like it? Tough. > > There is a choice, it’s called the LFG postings and managing self created groups, blocking/reporting , pretty simple concept, go search the forums for the Stance Anet stated the choice is part of starting and joining groups. Well, you are obviously not as OLD SCHOOL as some us. You neglected to mention in game Chat. Those days were awesome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Javelin.7960 Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 > @Deihnyx.6318 said: > > @Javelin.7960 said: > > > @Deihnyx.6318 said: > > > > @Javelin.7960 said: > > > > > @TexZero.7910 said: > > > > > > @Javelin.7960 said: > > > > > > I don't think anyone in this thread is a senior developer or producer for this game. None of us are making resource allocation decisions, so feel free to 'dream big'. As a concept, absent any resource constraints, would you have a problem with a programmatic solution that addressed the concern and allowed individual accounts to disable DPS metering for their toons, provided their status in that regard was publicly provided prior to joining a group/squad/whatever? > > > > > > > > > > > > I just don't see why anyone would have a problem with that, rationales used to justify it notwithstanding. > > > > > > > > > > Why ? > > > > > > > > > > If you absolutely do not want DPS meters, don't install one and don't join groups that use them. It's the much simpler approach and requires significantly less overhead. > > > > > Sorry if you don't like my liberal nature when it comes to programming but there's never been a need to add more checks when a human system already exist. > > > > > > > > I asked a simple question, one I've asked repeatedly and apparently has people so terrified they'll say about anything to avoid answering it. It's a conceptual question, not a resource question, not a question of practicality. The current status of things isn't relevant to it, it's about of how things could be, not how things are today. > > > > > > > > I get it though, if I were some of you I'd not want to admit I'm opposed to my fellow players having a choice that wouldn't impact me negatively, it's not the sort of opinion people want to broadcast about themselves. > > > > > > I'm not opposed to anything including enabled/disabled dps meters, but your answer sounds a lot more like someone who's ignoring/refusing the fact that you already have a choice, as said and repeated many times. > > > You're free to believe what you want, though. > > > (btw: you're doing strawman yourself at the end, how great is it...) > > > > Things get pretty bogged down in a discussion when people won't give you a straight answer. This entire thread has basically gone like this: > > > > "I want a choice." > > "You don't need a choice." > > "I still want one." > > "You must suck if you want a choice. Get gud." > > "Maybe I do, but I still want a choice." > > "The thing you want a choice over, isn't a problem, because I said so." > > "Great opinion. I still want a choice." > > "Why don't you just quit, if you're so determined to have a choice?" > > "I could do that, but I'd rather just have a choice." > > "People are always going to be mean, so having a choice is pointless." > > "Why are you so opposed to me having a choice?" > > "Didn't you hear me the first time, stop wanting a choice!" > > "Not gonna happen." > > "Choices are impossible, it's never been done before. It would be expensive. Trust me." > > "Why are you so opposed to me having a choice again? I don't think you answered me the first time I asked." > > "This is kitten, just use the existing systems, even though obviously you don't think they're adequate or you wouldn't be asking for a choice....." > > "...." > > > > People have the right to express their opinions. It's obvious from this thread that quite a few players feel the existing systems aren't adequate to address this problem. So yes, I'm ignoring that suggestion because frankly it's the equivalent of saying 'If you don't like the rules, don't play.' I've got just as much right to enjoy this game as anyone else, and if I see something I think could be improved, I may decide to comment on it. Don't like it? Tough. > > My problem is that you're not considering the other side. Players wanting to play with it, wanting to make groups with pugs who also want it, and somehow they couldn't because some of you, for some reason (not judging what) dont want to join their dps train in the group that they made. > Whereas the alternative is simple: making a group with your own rules. > > From my perspective, if you do that, you are the one forcing your fellow party members to play your way, effectively impacting their right to enjoy the game, in their own group. It sounds like you believe there are enough players who would choose not be divulge DPS info, if they had that choice, that it might reduce grouping opportunities for those who want to do so. Do I have that right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhanoa.3960 Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 > @Deihnyx.6318 said: > > @Javelin.7960 said: > > > @Deihnyx.6318 said: > > > > @Javelin.7960 said: > > > > > @TexZero.7910 said: > > > > > > @Javelin.7960 said: > > > > > > I don't think anyone in this thread is a senior developer or producer for this game. None of us are making resource allocation decisions, so feel free to 'dream big'. As a concept, absent any resource constraints, would you have a problem with a programmatic solution that addressed the concern and allowed individual accounts to disable DPS metering for their toons, provided their status in that regard was publicly provided prior to joining a group/squad/whatever? > > > > > > > > > > > > I just don't see why anyone would have a problem with that, rationales used to justify it notwithstanding. > > > > > > > > > > Why ? > > > > > > > > > > If you absolutely do not want DPS meters, don't install one and don't join groups that use them. It's the much simpler approach and requires significantly less overhead. > > > > > Sorry if you don't like my liberal nature when it comes to programming but there's never been a need to add more checks when a human system already exist. > > > > > > > > I asked a simple question, one I've asked repeatedly and apparently has people so terrified they'll say about anything to avoid answering it. It's a conceptual question, not a resource question, not a question of practicality. The current status of things isn't relevant to it, it's about of how things could be, not how things are today. > > > > > > > > I get it though, if I were some of you I'd not want to admit I'm opposed to my fellow players having a choice that wouldn't impact me negatively, it's not the sort of opinion people want to broadcast about themselves. > > > > > > I'm not opposed to anything including enabled/disabled dps meters, but your answer sounds a lot more like someone who's ignoring/refusing the fact that you already have a choice, as said and repeated many times. > > > You're free to believe what you want, though. > > > (btw: you're doing strawman yourself at the end, how great is it...) > > > > Things get pretty bogged down in a discussion when people won't give you a straight answer. This entire thread has basically gone like this: > > > > "I want a choice." > > "You don't need a choice." > > "I still want one." > > "You must suck if you want a choice. Get gud." > > "Maybe I do, but I still want a choice." > > "The thing you want a choice over, isn't a problem, because I said so." > > "Great opinion. I still want a choice." > > "Why don't you just quit, if you're so determined to have a choice?" > > "I could do that, but I'd rather just have a choice." > > "People are always going to be mean, so having a choice is pointless." > > "Why are you so opposed to me having a choice?" > > "Didn't you hear me the first time, stop wanting a choice!" > > "Not gonna happen." > > "Choices are impossible, it's never been done before. It would be expensive. Trust me." > > "Why are you so opposed to me having a choice again? I don't think you answered me the first time I asked." > > "This is kitten, just use the existing systems, even though obviously you don't think they're adequate or you wouldn't be asking for a choice....." > > "...." > > > > People have the right to express their opinions. It's obvious from this thread that quite a few players feel the existing systems aren't adequate to address this problem. So yes, I'm ignoring that suggestion because frankly it's the equivalent of saying 'If you don't like the rules, don't play.' I've got just as much right to enjoy this game as anyone else, and if I see something I think could be improved, I may decide to comment on it. Don't like it? Tough. > > My problem is that you're not considering the other side. Players wanting to play with it, wanting to make groups with pugs who also want it, and somehow they couldn't because some of you, for some reason (not judging what) dont want to join their dps train in the group that they made. > Whereas the alternative is simple: making a group with your own rules. > > From my perspective, if you do that, you are the one forcing your fellow party members to play your way, effectively impacting their right to enjoy the game, in their own group. **Cough/** meters were not an issue Core game! Folks still played their own way and have been retaliated against for doing so, it goes both ways. Meters was never part of the game to begin with. Player Made not ANET. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rennie.6750 Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 I don't believe they're a good idea for LFG parties, because mixing varying levels of experience and practice helps everyone to improve. Rookies get some practice and veterans can't settle with "good enough". That being said, encouraging this is kind of tricky without either easy content or the inability to kick and disabling text chat. One thing though, ANet certainly didn't evaluate properly the social aspect of implementing raids that way. It really splits the community, creates hatred and resentment on both sides of the spectrum when they happen to meet by accident and learn who's on which side, and this isn't good at all. It creates bad feelings related the game, and that's the worst thing that can happen to entertainment. If you don't believe in these bad feelings, read these threads again. I certainly don't have magical and universal solution to this, but the devs do need to consider this as a major problem for the long-term health of the community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Red Arachnid.2493 Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 I could've sworn I had already gone over the whole "players have different expectations and play the game for different reasons", AKA _The Carried Myth._ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DakotaCoty.5721 Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 > @TheRandomGuy.7246 said: > > @Panda.1967 said: > > > @TheRandomGuy.7246 said: > > > But what will you do about people who can estimate your contribution by looking at your rotation and buff panel. Aka the majority of players that care enough to use dps meter. > > > > Wow... that is the biggest piece of misinformation I have ever seen... it's so wrong it's laughable. The number of people who can estimate someone's contribution by looking at their buffs and observing the attacks they can see, are far from a majority... they are as far from a majority as you can possibly even get. We're talking less than 1% of 1% here. > > You don't need to be a minmax elitist to see wrong status effects and wrong or missing buffs on people. Or to see PS warrior spinning with double axe and then swap to rifle. I mean, ArenaNet had to nerf Eater of Souls because people couldn't work out they had more skills outside of pressing '1'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhanoa.3960 Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 > @Rennie.6750 said: > I don't believe they're a good idea for LFG parties, because mixing varying levels of experience and practice helps everyone to improve. Rookies get some practice and veterans can't settle with "good enough". That being said, encouraging this is kind of tricky without either easy content or the inability to kick and disabling text chat. One thing though, ANet certainly didn't evaluate properly the social aspect of implementing raids that way. It really splits the community, creates hatred and resentment on both sides of the spectrum when they happen to meet by accident and learn who's on which side, and this isn't good at all. It creates bad feelings related the game, and that's the worst thing that can happen to entertainment. If you don't believe in these bad feelings, read these threads again. I certainly don't have magical and universal solution to this, but the devs do need to consider this as a major problem for the long-term health of the community. I purposely join story dungeons knowing there are new players who may have not experienced the game like I have. Who may even get ignored all because someone believes they cannot carry their weight. As a community in GW2 are we not suppose to help each other out? You are DOWNED do I just ignore you? It's not exactly how ANET designed the game. Throw more tools (Player made) to measure people by, you get more of the same folks alienating players. That's far from being a helpful or being a community in this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxwelgm.4315 Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 I am in total agreement with the OP. So sad that the very first post answering him was a "git gud, you must have low DPS" one. Consider first the silly situation of someone with a DPS metter joining your group. Said person is the only one currently on a DPS meter, and he finds out he's by far the least damaging person of the group. For many reasons (e.g you noticed his rotation of skills is all messed up, he's the only one far from Chrono, and he's clearly healing and dodging on cooldown just for the sake of it), you also realize this without using a DPS meter. Then after calling him out, he somehow (I said this would be the silly example) convinces everyone else you're the one dragging everyone down because it's showing as much in his DPS meter. Voila you get a kick from a promising pug. Consider now the not-so-silly situation of a guild looking to complete their group harassing (whether or not as a primary purpose is irrelevant) everyone that joins their half-party with DPS meter prints/calling out in chat. GW2 takes pride in its friendly community and a lot of it can be credited to the developers who actively avoid putting players in a place where they have unnecessary conflicts. This is so unnecessary it's not even funny, and having this situation NOT happen is *even easier than everyone leaving toxic parties, because there _shouldn't be toxic parties due to DPS meters_*. Honestly, it doesn't matter if you think it's OK for you to be harassed. It doesn't matter if you think it's just a matter of leaving the toxic parties (it is ALSO a matter of doing this, but you shouldn't merely turn your face from a problem and call it a day). It doesn't even matter if the OP and others concerned with that are exaggerating. What matter is that Anet is taking a (rare) instance in favor of having player privacy violated, and if you don't think this is bad, I just hope Anet themselves think it is. With that said, I personally enjoy group DPS meters, IF consent can be verified. This is the best way to play whatever build I want and still prove I can do better than all the Tempest/Weavers that fail the qT rotations. It is also a way to improve together, by having your friends point out possible origins for your lack of dmg while you can also pay attention to their performance in return. But _consent_ is a keyword here, and you people (and Anet) have to understand this. Claiming this data is already present during runtime is also no good, since it's not feasible for anyone to look into it unless accessing said runtime data with specialized tools, which is an awfully euphemistic way of saying data mining game content, even transactions that were assumed people _wouldn't_ take a peek at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Javelin.7960 Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 > @DakotaCoty.5721 said: > > @TheRandomGuy.7246 said: > > > @Panda.1967 said: > > > > @TheRandomGuy.7246 said: > > > > But what will you do about people who can estimate your contribution by looking at your rotation and buff panel. Aka the majority of players that care enough to use dps meter. > > > > > > Wow... that is the biggest piece of misinformation I have ever seen... it's so wrong it's laughable. The number of people who can estimate someone's contribution by looking at their buffs and observing the attacks they can see, are far from a majority... they are as far from a majority as you can possibly even get. We're talking less than 1% of 1% here. > > > > You don't need to be a minmax elitist to see wrong status effects and wrong or missing buffs on people. Or to see PS warrior spinning with double axe and then swap to rifle. > > I mean, ArenaNet had to nerf Eater of Souls because people couldn't work out they had more skills outside of pressing '1'. I'm guessing you never tried to beat pre-nerf EoS while wearing armor with a set of Privateer runes? The other two nerfs were probably overkill, but his ability to suck health from uncontrollable pets was flat broken, especially when literally no other mob in the game could do so, at least not to that extent. He went from sub 50% health to full more than once off that stupid bird before I figured out what he was doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rennie.6750 Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 > @Rhanoa.3960 said: > > @Rennie.6750 said: > > I don't believe they're a good idea for LFG parties, because mixing varying levels of experience and practice helps everyone to improve. Rookies get some practice and veterans can't settle with "good enough". That being said, encouraging this is kind of tricky without either easy content or the inability to kick and disabling text chat. One thing though, ANet certainly didn't evaluate properly the social aspect of implementing raids that way. It really splits the community, creates hatred and resentment on both sides of the spectrum when they happen to meet by accident and learn who's on which side, and this isn't good at all. It creates bad feelings related the game, and that's the worst thing that can happen to entertainment. If you don't believe in these bad feelings, read these threads again. I certainly don't have magical and universal solution to this, but the devs do need to consider this as a major problem for the long-term health of the community. > > I purposely join story dungeons knowing there are new players who may have not experienced the game like I have. Who may even get ignored all because someone believes they cannot carry their weight. > > As a community in GW2 are we not suppose to help each other out? > You are DOWNED do I just ignore you? It's not exactly how ANET designed the game. > Throw more tools (Player made) to measure people by, you get more of the same folks alienating players. That's far from being a helpful or being a community in this game. Yes but ideally, the game enforces such behaviour. Expecting benevolence from the distance + anominity combo is really a weird fantasy I've never understood. Plenty of games found their own right balance. Some straight out have no text chat and no kicks, if someone is unhappy he has no other option but leaving, often with a penalty. Some provide only easy instanced group content. Some give extra rewards for using the solo random group finder once a day. Of course, ANet hasn't made a group finder yet, there's kicks and text chat, and there's loads of midcore or hardcore only content, and that fuels the hatred when different people with different expectations meet by accident or not. Sadly it seems that ANet devs don't think it's a problem, since raids have been here for two years and nothing has been done to address these bad feelings, be it for lack of resources, incompetence or lack of creativity. Probably a bit of all 3. It baffles me that it's not on their high priority list, as it's one of the most debated topics on the forums all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolute.6239 Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 I'm not sure how someone can view a DPS meter in its current form as a negative thing. GW2 has such a simplistic party join and LFG system that you can both create your own groups and block/ignore anyone who is rude or you feel imposes on how you want to play the game. To claim "I want a choice" is flawed, because you have a choice. Your choice is to make your own group and not care, or join groups that don't care. Hiding damage numbers serves virtually no purpose, especially in content such as high end fractals and raids, in which DPS (*shockingly*) matters. If you're AFK auto attacking, it's immediately obvious. If you're hard carrying a group, it's immediately obvious. And these things may be good or bad (maybe it's a casual initate fractal that dies regardless and you want to look around the scenery or something) but it can matter. This is not a single player RPG, it requires co-op grouping and generally requires people to carry their own weight in order to be successful. It's inconsiderate and disrespectful to expect others to carry someones weight. Not everyone has hours to spend playing this game, especially so wiping to things because people are flat out not playing their classes properly. It's not like the tools are not readily available, things like qT or Snowcrows exist and there are plenty of YouTube and other content creators who post everything you would ever need to know about classes. Hiding tools because you're afraid or feel it will "intrude on privacy" is such bologna. Trying to link it to suicide because it can "cause bullying which is cyber bullying which people have killed themselves over" is downright offensive. It's like trying to claim people not liking Charr's should be bannable because it's racist and people have died because of racism. What kind of mental gymnastic leap is this? For the record I'm relatively new (3-4 months now) and I've only dipped my toes in raiding (escort/MO/sam) and gone up to T2 fractals and I've literally NEVER seen or been exclu0ded for any DPS reasons. Then again, I also don't try to force myself into "300 LI" or "experienced" groups which **EXPECT** that which is their choice and I completely respect that and hope to one day become comfortable enough to lot myself into that group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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