I'm pretty impressed with the Balance Changes. I only have one Gripe.

[UNOwen.7132]

> @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > > Thieves complaining about Initiative costs...

> > > At least you have more resource freedom than Revenants, less costs **and** you get to start with 100%.

> >

> > Less freedom actually. More costs, and no way of just swapping legends to fully refill. Like hell, most of Revenants weapon skills have cost of 12-15. The thief equivalent of that would be 2 initiative. Thief has *no* skill that costs less than 3 initiative that isnt kneel or a follow-up skill. Which is to say nothing of the speed of regeneration.

>

> You have no CDs on weapon skills and no Initiative costs on Utility skills.

> And then you have multiple skills to regain Initiative, like Roll for Initiative or Mercy.

> That's more freedom than Revenants, as they have both CDs and Energy costs on Weapon skills, utility skills and their F2-4 mechanics.

 

Initiative makes the weapon skills share CD. Thieves cant use every single one of our weapon skills and still have initiative left over, were drained after 2 or 3.

 

Thieves have to take Roll for Initiative or Mercy, and both have 30 seconds cooldown. Revenants have that functionality baked into their legend swap, which has a *10* second cooldown. Revenants have considerably more freedom.

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

> @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > > Thieves complaining about Initiative costs...

> > > At least you have more resource freedom than Revenants, less costs **and** you get to start with 100%.

> >

> > Less freedom actually. More costs, and no way of just swapping legends to fully refill. Like hell, most of Revenants weapon skills have cost of 12-15. The thief equivalent of that would be 2 initiative. Thief has *no* skill that costs less than 3 initiative that isnt kneel or a follow-up skill. Which is to say nothing of the speed of regeneration.

>

> You have no CDs on weapon skills and no Initiative costs on Utility skills.

> And then you have multiple skills to regain Initiative, like Roll for Initiative or Mercy.

> That's more freedom than Revenants, as they have both CDs and Energy costs on Weapon skills, utility skills and their F2-4 mechanics.

 

Adding to the two above this post. Roll for initiative completely takes you away from your target, and to gap close on the same opening you completely use up the init you gain so there is no follow up assuming steal is on cool down.

 

Mercy is primarily to retarget, not restore init. And it is only available to the Deadeye. The effect Mercy does completely removes damage bo uses you've stacked up, as well as remove your damage reduction to that target. When focusing a single target its a bad move thats immediately punished to drop Malice to regain init.

 

The sigil restores init at a useless rate and is mostly used for an all in shadow step.

 

Trickery trait line is complained about because its necessary for thief in PvP due to it being the strongest source of init, because our lowest move removes a third of our base bar. And a shit load of moves completely erases your resources. And consequently all nerfs are made with the assumption we use trickery. And so a Catch 22.

 

The problems rev has are unique but isn't hindering you. Your energy costs are nothing.

 

The same init pool is shared with both weapons. If you have only two init left then swap weapons, you still only have two. And with the rates where you can onky use two skills in quick succession before being locked out of your weapon skills... Its pretty bad.

 

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

> @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:

> > @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > > > Thieves complaining about Initiative costs...

> > > > At least you have more resource freedom than Revenants, less costs **and** you get to start with 100%.

> > >

> > > Less freedom actually. More costs, and no way of just swapping legends to fully refill. Like hell, most of Revenants weapon skills have cost of 12-15. The thief equivalent of that would be 2 initiative. Thief has *no* skill that costs less than 3 initiative that isnt kneel or a follow-up skill. Which is to say nothing of the speed of regeneration.

> >

> > You have no CDs on weapon skills and no Initiative costs on Utility skills.

> > And then you have multiple skills to regain Initiative, like Roll for Initiative or Mercy.

> > That's more freedom than Revenants, as they have both CDs and Energy costs on Weapon skills, utility skills and their F2-4 mechanics.

>

> Trickery trait line is complained about because its necessary for thief in PvP due to it being the strongest source of init, because our lowest move removes a third of our base bar. And a kitten load of moves completely erases your resources. And consequently all nerfs are made with the assumption we use trickery. And so a Catch 22.

^ This