Pip Chests - Can this ever get another pass?

[Shroud.2307]

Not something I personally care about but I understand those that do and don't have the time to complete the tracks. I just want to point out that high ranked players can complete all the way through Diamond in a few hours. If you suggest a rework that includes increased/better rewards and/or allows certain tiers to be repeatable, also consider that high ranked players will get a huge profit from something like this.

 

Maybe adding something like a "slumber" buff that heavily increases all reward and pip gain for a brief time ( eg. 2 hours ) when you've been offline for a certain number of hours ( maybe 32 - 48 ) and is automatically removed when the Diamond track is completed. This would be a nice "welcome back" reward for those who cannot play often or who choose not to without affecting those who can/prefer to play more often. It may also promote more activity from certain people who want to get the most out of that buff by commanding or being more adventurous.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

> Not something I personally care about but I understand those that do and don't have the time to complete the tracks. I just want to point out that high ranked players can complete all the way through Diamond in a few hours. If you suggest a rework that includes increased/better rewards and/or allows certain tiers to be repeatable, also consider that high ranked players will get a huge profit from something like this.

>

> Maybe adding something like a "slumber" buff that heavily increases all reward and pip gain for a brief time ( eg. 2 hours ) when you've been offline for a certain number of hours ( maybe 32 - 48 ) and is automatically removed when the Diamond track is completed. This would be a nice "welcome back" reward for those who cannot play often or who choose not to without affecting those who can/prefer to play more often. It may also promote more activity from certain people who want to get the most out of that buff by commanding or being more adventurous.

 

Seeing as the rewards from WvW are lack luster where exactly is the problem with high ranked players getting more loot than the current rate?

[lodjur.1284]

I don't particularly care very much about this as I don't really play WvW for the rewards but getting more stuff is always nice.

 

The biggest problem atm is how much more you get based on how long you've zerged (as that's the only way to realistically reach the higher ranks).

 

Ranks shouldn't contribute to pips at all. Increase baseline to compensate. Maybe make the repeatable chest a bit better too.

[Shroud.2307]

> @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > @"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

> > Not something I personally care about but I understand those that do and don't have the time to complete the tracks. I just want to point out that high ranked players can complete all the way through Diamond in a few hours. If you suggest a rework that includes increased/better rewards and/or allows certain tiers to be repeatable, also consider that high ranked players will get a huge profit from something like this.

> >

> > Maybe adding something like a "slumber" buff that heavily increases all reward and pip gain for a brief time ( eg. 2 hours ) when you've been offline for a certain number of hours ( maybe 32 - 48 ) and is automatically removed when the Diamond track is completed. This would be a nice "welcome back" reward for those who cannot play often or who choose not to without affecting those who can/prefer to play more often. It may also promote more activity from certain people who want to get the most out of that buff by commanding or being more adventurous.

>

> Seeing as the rewards from WvW are lack luster where exactly is the problem with high ranked players getting more loot than the current rate?

 

Because it will only be a matter of time before it becomes a new complaint from players who aren't a high rank about unfair loot distribution.

[ArchonWing.9480]

I think we should get 1 more base pip. I didn't realize how crap the pip earnings were for people that are new to wvw until I asked them about their progress.

 

Special event weeks should add pips too. Maybe allow boosters to boost your pips too.

[Blackarps.1974]

> @"steki.1478" said:

> > @"Blackarps.1974" said:

> > > @"Syrus.2174" said:

> > > Maybe the skirmish reward chests should be reset on relink instead of weekly, while also being made more rewarding and having the Diamond Chest Repeatable rewards be improved, especially the repeatable chest should give the same rewards as the normal one. WvW already gives very little reward for the time played, I don't think it would be too much to have that be a thing.

> >

> > This would actually work pretty well. Slightly increase rewards across the whole skirmish track but even more so for diamond chests. I'm getting roughly 12 pips per tick and blaze through the chests when I actively play. When I get to the repeatable diamond, it feels very slow and not all that rewarding. The armor chest in bronze that was recently added is nice but not nearly enough. Its basically a an ecto extra per week.

> >

> > PvE allows for 30 gold per hour but in WvW its closer to 5g an hour. A real bummer when you need to gear change or want something on the gem store.

>

> You can get gear from wvw currency and reward tracks though, without spending any gold.

 

And what exactly am I supposed to buy with badges of honor or skirmish tickets that I can convert to gold? The best option is probably badges of tribute. 40c per badge of honor...yeah boy!

 

20g-30g an hour doesn't require much work at all. You just need a commander and they are running on both EU and NA almost every day. You don't need to optimize the route or anything, they do all the work for you. There are only three things you have to do, listen/follow the commander, tag stuff, inventory management which is no different than doing any other meta or event in PvE. Raids and fractals also offer ascended gear for currencies so it also means that mode specific currencies don't really matter.

 

The bottom line is that WvW has always gotten the short end of the stick when it comes to making gold. I'm not saying we need to make 50g/hr while we AFK in SMC but I would like more to show for the time I put in, especially when its not on par with what other players are making.

[Syrus.2174]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"Syrus.2174" said:

> > EDIT:

> > Thinking about it, as a bigger change, maybe it might even be good to change the pips to not be time based, but actually be a reward for doing things.

> > Like, you'd get 1 pip for capturing a camp (any tier), 1 for a T0 or T1 tower, 2 for T2 or T3, 2 for a T0 or T1 Keep, 3 for a T2 Keep, 4 for T3 Keep and so on. 10 Kills would give 1 pip ... maybe even dependend on how many people "tagged" that one kill ... Of course that's only very rough numbers, which need a lot of adjusting, maybe even more pips needed to complete the chest, but it's more about the idea of not being required to just spend time in WvW sitting around keeping participation up and instead working for the reward in an actual manner.

> > Just a quick brainstormy idea though, just popped in my mind after I typed the post.

>

> Riiiiiiight...

>

> That wouldnt *at all* lead to vastly disproportionate rewards for karma training with the zerg in comparison to smallscale, nor make anyone think about abandoning defense of an objective and coordinate with the enemy so they can flip it back and forth as fast as possible for maximum pips.

>

> ... sometimes one really need to take a moment and consider why an existing well proven system works the way it does. Because its usually better than brainstorming.

 

One also needs to take a moment and rethink whether a rude reply is really necessary or not.

 

I was just throwing an idea into the room, I know it is not perfect, but the overall intention behind it is to reward playing the game and doing things instead of just requiring players to keep their participation up and sit around for a few hours. If the amount of pips required were increased, more fine tuning of rewards for objectives and kills could also be done.

Besides...there's little point in fleshing out even the greatest of ideas, considering that Anet is not going to pay any attention to it anyway. So, as disheartening as it is, I don't feel like wasting too much time on writing up some good calculations just to have them disappear in the depths of the forum. I was just interesting in hearing some respones to the general idea of shifting the reward towards activity instead of time.

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"Syrus.2174" said:

> > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > @"Syrus.2174" said:

> > > EDIT:

> > > Thinking about it, as a bigger change, maybe it might even be good to change the pips to not be time based, but actually be a reward for doing things.

> > > Like, you'd get 1 pip for capturing a camp (any tier), 1 for a T0 or T1 tower, 2 for T2 or T3, 2 for a T0 or T1 Keep, 3 for a T2 Keep, 4 for T3 Keep and so on. 10 Kills would give 1 pip ... maybe even dependend on how many people "tagged" that one kill ... Of course that's only very rough numbers, which need a lot of adjusting, maybe even more pips needed to complete the chest, but it's more about the idea of not being required to just spend time in WvW sitting around keeping participation up and instead working for the reward in an actual manner.

> > > Just a quick brainstormy idea though, just popped in my mind after I typed the post.

> >

> > Riiiiiiight...

> >

> > That wouldnt *at all* lead to vastly disproportionate rewards for karma training with the zerg in comparison to smallscale, nor make anyone think about abandoning defense of an objective and coordinate with the enemy so they can flip it back and forth as fast as possible for maximum pips.

> >

> > ... sometimes one really need to take a moment and consider why an existing well proven system works the way it does. Because its usually better than brainstorming.

>

> One also needs to take a moment and rethink whether a rude reply is really necessary or not.

>

> I was just throwing an idea into the room, I know it is not perfect, but the overall intention behind it is to reward playing the game and doing things instead of just requiring players to keep their participation up and sit around for a few hours. If the amount of pips required were increased, more fine tuning of rewards for objectives and kills could also be done.

> Besides...there's little point in fleshing out even the greatest of ideas, considering that Anet is not going to pay any attention to it anyway. So, as disheartening as it is, I don't feel like wasting too much time on writing up some good calculations just to have them disappear in the depths of the forum. I was just interesting in hearing some respones to the general idea of shifting the reward towards activity instead of time.

Have to savor every moment.

 

Here's the thing though - you're idea assumes that this isnt the case already. Quite the contrary. Have you *seen* the amount of loot you get by being active in WvW, compared to being AFK in spawn? The reward tracks arent the only thing that gives loot in WvW. You're not going to be that firebrand stating the mandatory "I got 150 bags!" by autorunning into a wall.

[lare.5129]

no one say "u should close all"!!

anyone can close silver and say "ok, enough".

[Roquen.5406]

> @"lare.5129" said:

> no one say "u should close all"!!

> anyone can close silver and say "ok, enough".

 

Of course but you lose progress each week. And you lose progress if you don’t completely finish a tier. And it actually takes more total hours to get something by not completing it every week.

 

What I mean by this is if you fully complete all chests each week it takes ~160 hours to get enough for something like Warbringer. If you only go through about half of them it’s about ~200 hours to get the same amount of tickets. Seems a bit odd to me.

 

Also, the pip gain for new players is abysmal. If you are in a bad matchup you are looking at something like 4 pips per tick...

 

It’s almost like it promotes finding an outmanned/outnumbered map because you automatically double your progress.

 

I spent some hours in a full squad following the commander and barely made any progress. I then ended up in an outnumbered map and was ticking 9-10 and I made much faster progress just by staying in that map.

 

It’s such a bizarre system that almost rewards you for avoiding congested maps.

 

Honestly, if you have an alt account with a low WvW rank go sit in a map for a bit. Maybe that can help remind you of how different it is.

[lare.5129]

> @"Roquen.5406" said:

> Of course but you lose progress each week. And you lose progress if you don’t completely finish a tier. And it actually takes more total hours to get something by not completing it every week.

also you lose progress each day if not go to do some meta, and lose progress if non stop play spvp. But this is ok.

 

> What I mean by this is if you fully complete all chests each week it takes ~160 hours to get enough for something like Warbringer. If you only go through about half of them it’s about ~200 hours to get the same amount of tickets. Seems a bit odd to me.

this is absolutely ok. Everyone can choose do another half or not.

 

> Also, the pip gain for new players is abysmal. If you are in a bad matchup you are looking at something like 4 pips per tick...

if you look only on pips progress - this is sad. If you play and don't look each minute to pips - it is ok.

 

> It’s almost like it promotes finding an outmanned/outnumbered map because you automatically double your progress.

yes, u can try choose another map. Why not ?

 

> I spent some hours in a full squad following the commander and barely made any progress. I then ended up in an outnumbered map and was ticking 9-10 and I made much faster progress just by staying in that map.

yes, you can choose any gameplay tipe as you want. This is great.

 

> It’s such a bizarre system that almost rewards you for avoiding congested maps.

yes, this is great system. Here I agree with you.

 

[lare.5129]

>Honestly, if you have an alt account with a low WvW rank go sit in a map for a bit. Maybe that can help remind you of how different it is.

I don't need alt account. But If someone have low wvw tank this is not problem, after 4-5 year play each day the rank is increased. If someone sad that he can't do it per one day - mmo not for him.

[Syrus.2174]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"Syrus.2174" said:

> > > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > > @"Syrus.2174" said:

> > > > EDIT:

> > > > Thinking about it, as a bigger change, maybe it might even be good to change the pips to not be time based, but actually be a reward for doing things.

> > > > Like, you'd get 1 pip for capturing a camp (any tier), 1 for a T0 or T1 tower, 2 for T2 or T3, 2 for a T0 or T1 Keep, 3 for a T2 Keep, 4 for T3 Keep and so on. 10 Kills would give 1 pip ... maybe even dependend on how many people "tagged" that one kill ... Of course that's only very rough numbers, which need a lot of adjusting, maybe even more pips needed to complete the chest, but it's more about the idea of not being required to just spend time in WvW sitting around keeping participation up and instead working for the reward in an actual manner.

> > > > Just a quick brainstormy idea though, just popped in my mind after I typed the post.

> > >

> > > Riiiiiiight...

> > >

> > > That wouldnt *at all* lead to vastly disproportionate rewards for karma training with the zerg in comparison to smallscale, nor make anyone think about abandoning defense of an objective and coordinate with the enemy so they can flip it back and forth as fast as possible for maximum pips.

> > >

> > > ... sometimes one really need to take a moment and consider why an existing well proven system works the way it does. Because its usually better than brainstorming.

> >

> > One also needs to take a moment and rethink whether a rude reply is really necessary or not.

> >

> > I was just throwing an idea into the room, I know it is not perfect, but the overall intention behind it is to reward playing the game and doing things instead of just requiring players to keep their participation up and sit around for a few hours. If the amount of pips required were increased, more fine tuning of rewards for objectives and kills could also be done.

> > Besides...there's little point in fleshing out even the greatest of ideas, considering that Anet is not going to pay any attention to it anyway. So, as disheartening as it is, I don't feel like wasting too much time on writing up some good calculations just to have them disappear in the depths of the forum. I was just interesting in hearing some respones to the general idea of shifting the reward towards activity instead of time.

> Have to savor every moment.

>

> Here's the thing though - your idea assumes that this isnt the case already. Quite the contrary. Have you *seen* the amount of loot you get by being active in WvW, compared to being AFK in spawn? The reward tracks arent the only thing that gives loot in WvW. You're not going to be that firebrand stating the mandatory "I got 150 bags!" by autorunning into a wall.

 

Still, the skirmish reward chests are not very rewarding in the grand scheme, and they are time based. I would really like it if Anet reworked the participation aspect of WvW overall. Maybe it's just that overall the amount of reward received in WvW, be it through actively playing or time based, is just quite lackluster. Of course, the skirmish reward chests are the only way for skirmish claim tickets, so there's that in regard to time-based rewards.

It should all be about playing the game mode, participating as much as possible and all. But I agree, smallscale should not fall short due to it. I'm already kind of sad with how roaming has become so much less prevelant ever since the war claw was introduced to WvW and since the balance was so skewed for so long, so there's little reason to hit them even more with making reward more focussed towards big groups, but something should be done to improve to make the game mode feel more rewarding to play.

[Roquen.5406]

> @"lare.5129" said:

> > @"Roquen.5406" said:

> > Of course but you lose progress each week. And you lose progress if you don’t completely finish a tier. And it actually takes more total hours to get something by not completing it every week.

> also you lose progress each day if not go to do some meta, and lose progress if non stop play spvp. But this is ok.

>

Actually that’s not true in PvP specifically you don’t lose progress. The chest doesn’t reset each week so, it’s not like you have to bulk 20-24 hours or have to restart. It stays until the end of the season. So you can hop in and out without actually missing out.

 

> > What I mean by this is if you fully complete all chests each week it takes ~160 hours to get enough for something like Warbringer. If you only go through about half of them it’s about ~200 hours to get the same amount of tickets. Seems a bit odd to me.

> this is absolutely ok. Everyone can choose do another half or not.

 

I think we are misunderstanding each other here. If you clear every chest each week to get 2,800 tickets it takes 160 total hours. If you instead only do up to half way for example, to get 2,800 tickets it takes 200 total hours. So it takes more time overall if you can’t dedicate 20-24 hours a week to the mode.

[Roquen.5406]

> @"lare.5129" said:

> >Honestly, if you have an alt account with a low WvW rank go sit in a map for a bit. Maybe that can help remind you of how different it is.

> I don't need alt account. But If someone have low wvw tank this is not problem, after 4-5 year play each day the rank is increased. If someone sad that he can't do it per one day - mmo not for him.

 

Again, I think you are misunderstanding me. I don’t mind putting in the work but in my opinion it feels bad if I am punished because I can’t dedicate 20-24 hours a week to a mode.

 

As I mentioned above it takes 160 hours total to get something like 2,800 tickets as long as you clear every chest each week.

 

I don’t mind putting in those 160 hours but over 24 weeks instead of 8. And with the current system because of the resets it would actually take around 200 hours to get the same amount of tickets if you don’t full clear each week.

 

But it’s pretty clear I’m in the minority here so I will just drop it.

[lare.5129]

> @"Roquen.5406" said:

> Actually that’s not true in PvP specifically you don’t lose progress.

u lose progress each pvp season, if u not get pvp legue ticket - u lost it.

 

>I don’t mind putting in those 160 hours but over 24 weeks instead of 8.

anyway after 24 weeks thay will get something... I understand is bad if u not close diamond - u get zero. But not is ok, We have some scale, this is ok.