Toughness in WvW

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"Malsheem.1794" said:

> > @"ArchonWing.9480" said:

> > We generally prefer marauder on DH because of their low base health. Toughness means nothing against condis and with 11k health you may just melt. Stacking both toughness and vitality would mean something like pvt and that probably won't kill anything. So in reality there isn't much choice.

> >

> > A good compromise is to run durability runes, though. To properly play guardian, you need to use your blocks and such to mitigate damage. There is just no way to facetank those bursts. I don't know what you were running, but if you were running radiance, don't do it for now.

> >

> > http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PWwAMx7lVwAZfsG2IeUXatNA-zRJYkRNfhEZCkZI0bF4wA-e

>

> I wasnt running any thoughness on my DH - which was kind of the point as i found damage numbers vs none-toughenss-DH and high-toughness-scourge to be pretty much the same. Which is why i came to the forum to ask about how toughness works - or if it did work ;)

 

It also could be the difference in one scenario that burst had more situational +dmg% modifiers active and the other did not leading you to think that the increase in toughness did no good.

[ArchonWing.9480]

> @"Malsheem.1794" said:

> > @"ArchonWing.9480" said:

> > We generally prefer marauder on DH because of their low base health. Toughness means nothing against condis and with 11k health you may just melt. Stacking both toughness and vitality would mean something like pvt and that probably won't kill anything. So in reality there isn't much choice.

> >

> > A good compromise is to run durability runes, though. To properly play guardian, you need to use your blocks and such to mitigate damage. There is just no way to facetank those bursts. I don't know what you were running, but if you were running radiance, don't do it for now.

> >

> > http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PWwAMx7lVwAZfsG2IeUXatNA-zRJYkRNfhEZCkZI0bF4wA-e

>

> I wasnt running any thoughness on my DH - which was kind of the point as i found damage numbers vs none-toughenss-DH and high-toughness-scourge to be pretty much the same. Which is why i came to the forum to ask about how toughness works - or if it did work ;)

 

I am aware, since marauder is the standard, and there really isn't much flexibility so I was thinking maybe Dura runes may give you some extra damage mitigation and has all the toughness you'll probably need. It also gives passive protection which is probably worth a lot more than toughness really (-33% damage reduction will do that)

 

And yes it does work (especially against bursty warriors and thieves). If I replace them, then I find myself having huge problems with them sometimes. My guess is most people have switched to condi but power zerker/spb is still a thing.

 

Sadly this is the thing that takes experimenting on your own. You of course want some staying power but don't want to be a wet noodle. And yes that's sorta off topic.

[UNOwen.7132]

> @"TheGrimm.5624" said:

> > @"Woop S.7851" said:

> > - this is why certain overpowered builds can do crazy damage to you since power buffs are all **"multiplied"** using percentages, yet food or trait calculation %percentages multiplies the incoming external damage, leaving your armor or toughness aside.

>

> I still have to wonder if this entire patch could have been skipped if they had just changed that logic right there and made it a straight up one time percentage instead of having the compounding effect.

>

 

Skipped? Nah. That wouldve actually messed up things badly. A lot of skills would have to be majorly buffed up, condi would have to be toned down, and some builds would just cease to function. It wouldve been disruptive, to say the least.

[TheGrimm.5624]

> @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > @"TheGrimm.5624" said:

> > > @"Woop S.7851" said:

> > > - this is why certain overpowered builds can do crazy damage to you since power buffs are all **"multiplied"** using percentages, yet food or trait calculation %percentages multiplies the incoming external damage, leaving your armor or toughness aside.

> >

> > I still have to wonder if this entire patch could have been skipped if they had just changed that logic right there and made it a straight up one time percentage instead of having the compounding effect.

> >

>

> Skipped? Nah. That wouldve actually messed up things badly. A lot of skills would have to be majorly buffed up, condi would have to be toned down, and some builds would just cease to function. It wouldve been disruptive, to say the least.

 

If the issue was the power creep, the power creep was brought on by the multipliers. If the multipliers were not additive versus in total the numbers would have been in line. Again game now feels more imbalanced than it did before in many regards.

[UNOwen.7132]

> @"TheGrimm.5624" said:

> > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > @"TheGrimm.5624" said:

> > > > @"Woop S.7851" said:

> > > > - this is why certain overpowered builds can do crazy damage to you since power buffs are all **"multiplied"** using percentages, yet food or trait calculation %percentages multiplies the incoming external damage, leaving your armor or toughness aside.

> > >

> > > I still have to wonder if this entire patch could have been skipped if they had just changed that logic right there and made it a straight up one time percentage instead of having the compounding effect.

> > >

> >

> > Skipped? Nah. That wouldve actually messed up things badly. A lot of skills would have to be majorly buffed up, condi would have to be toned down, and some builds would just cease to function. It wouldve been disruptive, to say the least.

>

> If the issue was the power creep, the power creep was brought on by the multipliers. If the multipliers were not additive versus in total the numbers would have been in line. Again game now feels more imbalanced than it did before in many regards.

 

Actually, no. The multipliers have always been there. The old trait system had plenty of them as well. Hell, most elite specs didnt really add any multipliers, and a few that did arent good.

[TheGrimm.5624]

> @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > @"TheGrimm.5624" said:

> > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > @"TheGrimm.5624" said:

> > > > > @"Woop S.7851" said:

> > > > > - this is why certain overpowered builds can do crazy damage to you since power buffs are all **"multiplied"** using percentages, yet food or trait calculation %percentages multiplies the incoming external damage, leaving your armor or toughness aside.

> > > >

> > > > I still have to wonder if this entire patch could have been skipped if they had just changed that logic right there and made it a straight up one time percentage instead of having the compounding effect.

> > > >

> > >

> > > Skipped? Nah. That wouldve actually messed up things badly. A lot of skills would have to be majorly buffed up, condi would have to be toned down, and some builds would just cease to function. It wouldve been disruptive, to say the least.

> >

> > If the issue was the power creep, the power creep was brought on by the multipliers. If the multipliers were not additive versus in total the numbers would have been in line. Again game now feels more imbalanced than it did before in many regards.

>

> Actually, no. The multipliers have always been there. The old trait system had plenty of them as well. Hell, most elite specs didnt really add any multipliers, and a few that did arent good.

 

Actually no? So you don't think the compounded multiples add to the power increase over time? We can come back to whether elites added any in. Tired so I want to see if we are talking apples to apples or its me and need more sleep.

[ens.9854]

I thought the problem was stacking protection and other -% damage taken (food, traits, herald buff) is far TOO effective compared to toughness. Nobody knows how these things stack (which are additive, multiplicative), but they seem to be the secret to tankiness especially in zergs. It does definitely feel like protection is more than -33% at times...