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What's the drawback to running thief in your comp?


ArlAlt.1630

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> @"ArlAlt.1630" said:

> Soooo @"Odik.4587" did some testing today. Sind is correct that SA>DA in terms of damage. However said damage is so absurd that @"bluri.2653" will have a field day trying to defend it. :D

 

Can't wait for the mathematician to chime in, say its all false and call you all a bunch of liars B)

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> @"ArlAlt.1630" said:

> Soooo @"Odik.4587" did some testing today. Sind is correct that SA>DA in terms of damage. However said damage is so absurd that @"bluri.2653" will have a field day trying to defend it. :D

 

Not really? I mean you can look at his VoD for the MAT and see his damage. "Absurd" is not the word I would use to describe it. Instead, Id go with "pathetic", or "laughable". But go ahead, tell us what that "absurd" damage is.

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> @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > @"ArlAlt.1630" said:

> > Soooo @"Odik.4587" did some testing today. Sind is correct that SA>DA in terms of damage. However said damage is so absurd that @"bluri.2653" will have a field day trying to defend it. :D

>

> Not really? I mean you can look at his VoD for the MAT and see his damage. "Absurd" is not the word I would use to describe it. Instead, Id go with "pathetic", or "laughable". But go ahead, tell us what that "absurd" damage is.

 

I'll leave it to @"Odik.4587" for numbers that ignore Armor.

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> @"ArlAlt.1630" said:

> > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said:

> > > Soooo @"Odik.4587" did some testing today. Sind is correct that SA>DA in terms of damage. However said damage is so absurd that @"bluri.2653" will have a field day trying to defend it. :D

> >

> > Not really? I mean you can look at his VoD for the MAT and see his damage. "Absurd" is not the word I would use to describe it. Instead, Id go with "pathetic", or "laughable". But go ahead, tell us what that "absurd" damage is.

>

> I'll leave it to @"Odik.4587" for numbers that ignore Armor.

 

Lemme just get this straight. You claim the damage numbers are "absurd", but you cant even say what they are. Perhaps youre afraid of showing them and people realising how far away from "absurd" they are?

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> @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > @"ArlAlt.1630" said:

> > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said:

> > > > Soooo @"Odik.4587" did some testing today. Sind is correct that SA>DA in terms of damage. However said damage is so absurd that @"bluri.2653" will have a field day trying to defend it. :D

> > >

> > > Not really? I mean you can look at his VoD for the MAT and see his damage. "Absurd" is not the word I would use to describe it. Instead, Id go with "pathetic", or "laughable". But go ahead, tell us what that "absurd" damage is.

> >

> > I'll leave it to @"Odik.4587" for numbers that ignore Armor.

>

> Lemme just get this straight. You claim the damage numbers are "absurd", but you cant even say what they are. Perhaps youre afraid of showing them and people realising how far away from "absurd" they are?

 

I used a 3rd party proxy to do said testing, so while I do have a pretty good idea of the ballpark of damage... I'd rather have the person that actually tested the damage provide exact numbers. It's called backing up your claims with data, you would do well to try and do the same.

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> @"ArlAlt.1630" said:

> > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said:

> > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said:

> > > > > Soooo @"Odik.4587" did some testing today. Sind is correct that SA>DA in terms of damage. However said damage is so absurd that @"bluri.2653" will have a field day trying to defend it. :D

> > > >

> > > > Not really? I mean you can look at his VoD for the MAT and see his damage. "Absurd" is not the word I would use to describe it. Instead, Id go with "pathetic", or "laughable". But go ahead, tell us what that "absurd" damage is.

> > >

> > > I'll leave it to @"Odik.4587" for numbers that ignore Armor.

> >

> > Lemme just get this straight. You claim the damage numbers are "absurd", but you cant even say what they are. Perhaps youre afraid of showing them and people realising how far away from "absurd" they are?

>

> I used a 3rd party proxy to do said testing, so while I do have a pretty good idea of the ballpark of damage... I'd rather have the person that actually tested the damage provide exact numbers. It's called backing up your claims with data, you would do well to try and do the same.

 

Ah, so its hearsay. Gotcha. And mate, I know you dont care much for the truth, but I did do exactly that, both math and in-game testing. Not my fault you preferred to still listen to the liar despite all that.

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> @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > @"ArlAlt.1630" said:

> > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said:

> > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said:

> > > > > > Soooo @"Odik.4587" did some testing today. Sind is correct that SA>DA in terms of damage. However said damage is so absurd that @"bluri.2653" will have a field day trying to defend it. :D

> > > > >

> > > > > Not really? I mean you can look at his VoD for the MAT and see his damage. "Absurd" is not the word I would use to describe it. Instead, Id go with "pathetic", or "laughable". But go ahead, tell us what that "absurd" damage is.

> > > >

> > > > I'll leave it to @"Odik.4587" for numbers that ignore Armor.

> > >

> > > Lemme just get this straight. You claim the damage numbers are "absurd", but you cant even say what they are. Perhaps youre afraid of showing them and people realising how far away from "absurd" they are?

> >

> > I used a 3rd party proxy to do said testing, so while I do have a pretty good idea of the ballpark of damage... I'd rather have the person that actually tested the damage provide exact numbers. It's called backing up your claims with data, you would do well to try and do the same.

>

> Ah, so its hearsay. Gotcha. And mate, I know you dont care much for the truth, but I did do exactly that, both math and in-game testing. Not my fault you preferred to still listen to the liar despite all that.

 

It's only hearsay, until someone backs it up with actual data. :wink:

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> @"ArlAlt.1630" said:

> > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said:

> > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said:

> > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said:

> > > > > > > Soooo @"Odik.4587" did some testing today. Sind is correct that SA>DA in terms of damage. However said damage is so absurd that @"bluri.2653" will have a field day trying to defend it. :D

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Not really? I mean you can look at his VoD for the MAT and see his damage. "Absurd" is not the word I would use to describe it. Instead, Id go with "pathetic", or "laughable". But go ahead, tell us what that "absurd" damage is.

> > > > >

> > > > > I'll leave it to @"Odik.4587" for numbers that ignore Armor.

> > > >

> > > > Lemme just get this straight. You claim the damage numbers are "absurd", but you cant even say what they are. Perhaps youre afraid of showing them and people realising how far away from "absurd" they are?

> > >

> > > I used a 3rd party proxy to do said testing, so while I do have a pretty good idea of the ballpark of damage... I'd rather have the person that actually tested the damage provide exact numbers. It's called backing up your claims with data, you would do well to try and do the same.

> >

> > Ah, so its hearsay. Gotcha. And mate, I know you dont care much for the truth, but I did do exactly that, both math and in-game testing. Not my fault you preferred to still listen to the liar despite all that.

>

> It's only hearsay, until someone backs it up with actual data. :wink:

 

Lets hope it actually happens. Knowing the true numbers though, Im mostly curious if you simply overexaggerated the result, or doctored it. Or both, even.

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> @"ArlAlt.1630" said:

> > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said:

> > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said:

> > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said:

> > > > > > > Soooo @"Odik.4587" did some testing today. Sind is correct that SA>DA in terms of damage. However said damage is so absurd that @"bluri.2653" will have a field day trying to defend it. :D

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Not really? I mean you can look at his VoD for the MAT and see his damage. "Absurd" is not the word I would use to describe it. Instead, Id go with "pathetic", or "laughable". But go ahead, tell us what that "absurd" damage is.

> > > > >

> > > > > I'll leave it to @"Odik.4587" for numbers that ignore Armor.

> > > >

> > > > Lemme just get this straight. You claim the damage numbers are "absurd", but you cant even say what they are. Perhaps youre afraid of showing them and people realising how far away from "absurd" they are?

> > >

> > > I used a 3rd party proxy to do said testing, so while I do have a pretty good idea of the ballpark of damage... I'd rather have the person that actually tested the damage provide exact numbers. It's called backing up your claims with data, you would do well to try and do the same.

> >

> > Ah, so its hearsay. Gotcha. And mate, I know you dont care much for the truth, but I did do exactly that, both math and in-game testing. Not my fault you preferred to still listen to the liar despite all that.

>

> It's only hearsay, until someone backs it up with actual data. :wink:

 

UNOwen did nothing wrong.

there is no proof that UNOwen lied.

Wake up people !

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> @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > @"ArlAlt.1630" said:

> > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said:

> > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said:

> > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said:

> > > > > > > > Soooo @"Odik.4587" did some testing today. Sind is correct that SA>DA in terms of damage. However said damage is so absurd that @"bluri.2653" will have a field day trying to defend it. :D

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Not really? I mean you can look at his VoD for the MAT and see his damage. "Absurd" is not the word I would use to describe it. Instead, Id go with "pathetic", or "laughable". But go ahead, tell us what that "absurd" damage is.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I'll leave it to @"Odik.4587" for numbers that ignore Armor.

> > > > >

> > > > > Lemme just get this straight. You claim the damage numbers are "absurd", but you cant even say what they are. Perhaps youre afraid of showing them and people realising how far away from "absurd" they are?

> > > >

> > > > I used a 3rd party proxy to do said testing, so while I do have a pretty good idea of the ballpark of damage... I'd rather have the person that actually tested the damage provide exact numbers. It's called backing up your claims with data, you would do well to try and do the same.

> > >

> > > Ah, so its hearsay. Gotcha. And mate, I know you dont care much for the truth, but I did do exactly that, both math and in-game testing. Not my fault you preferred to still listen to the liar despite all that.

> >

> > It's only hearsay, until someone backs it up with actual data. :wink:

>

> UNOwen did nothing wrong.

> there is no proof that UNOwen lied.

> Wake up people !

 

Made my day.

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> @"ArlAlt.1630" said:

> > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said:

> > > Soooo @"Odik.4587" did some testing today. Sind is correct that SA>DA in terms of damage. However said damage is so absurd that @"bluri.2653" will have a field day trying to defend it. :D

> >

> > Not really? I mean you can look at his VoD for the MAT and see his damage. "Absurd" is not the word I would use to describe it. Instead, Id go with "pathetic", or "laughable". But go ahead, tell us what that "absurd" damage is.

>

> I'll leave it to @"Odik.4587" for numbers that ignore Armor.

The combo I did was simple P/d 5-HS->steal->backstab, nothing fancy, idk why you want me to post it.

Used marauder amulet + scholar rune. From the sigils had only compounding sigil.

Used DRD/trickery and swapped only SA/DA just to see the difference in damage. I didnt dodge before bursts to trigger havoc specialist trait, used pre-stealth for 2 stacks of venom before combo).

On heavy golem it was around... SA 6901 , DA 7300.

Light golem DA: 8949, SA 8600. (pure BS+HS on SA was 6379 and leeching stuff that ignored armor... 2159+381 poison damage).

Idk why I had to post it. So people could question should a "sustrain" traitline add so much PURE damage and compete with other DPS traitlines in terms of damage? Then ok

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> @"ArlAlt.1630" said:

> > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said:

> > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said:

> > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said:

> > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said:

> > > > > > > > > Soooo @"Odik.4587" did some testing today. Sind is correct that SA>DA in terms of damage. However said damage is so absurd that @"bluri.2653" will have a field day trying to defend it. :D

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Not really? I mean you can look at his VoD for the MAT and see his damage. "Absurd" is not the word I would use to describe it. Instead, Id go with "pathetic", or "laughable". But go ahead, tell us what that "absurd" damage is.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I'll leave it to @"Odik.4587" for numbers that ignore Armor.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Lemme just get this straight. You claim the damage numbers are "absurd", but you cant even say what they are. Perhaps youre afraid of showing them and people realising how far away from "absurd" they are?

> > > > >

> > > > > I used a 3rd party proxy to do said testing, so while I do have a pretty good idea of the ballpark of damage... I'd rather have the person that actually tested the damage provide exact numbers. It's called backing up your claims with data, you would do well to try and do the same.

> > > >

> > > > Ah, so its hearsay. Gotcha. And mate, I know you dont care much for the truth, but I did do exactly that, both math and in-game testing. Not my fault you preferred to still listen to the liar despite all that.

> > >

> > > It's only hearsay, until someone backs it up with actual data. :wink:

> >

> > UNOwen did nothing wrong.

> > there is no proof that UNOwen lied.

> > Wake up people !

>

> Made my day.

 

https://imgur.com/gallery/NRIOkNZ

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> @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > Can't wait for the mathematician to chime in, say its all false and call you all a bunch of liars B)

>

> Called it. =)

>

 

What, youre surprised that I would call them out for saying something people know well to be impossible? We know thieves damage. We have seen it. Its not even half as good as Core Nade Engineers damage. And much as I love that build, its not even top tier.

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> @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > Can't wait for the mathematician to chime in, say its all false and call you all a bunch of liars B)

> >

> > Called it. =)

> >

>

> What, youre surprised that I would call them out for saying something people know well to be impossible? We know thieves damage. We have seen it. Its not even half as good as Core Nade Engineers damage. And much as I love that build, its not even top tier.

 

aaaah the classic deflection to another class. Klassy with a K

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> @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > Can't wait for the mathematician to chime in, say its all false and call you all a bunch of liars B)

> >

> > Called it. =)

> >

>

> What, youre surprised that I would call them out for saying something people know well to be impossible? We know thieves damage. We have seen it. Its not even half as good as Core Nade Engineers damage. And much as I love that build, its not even top tier.

 

We know, you don't.

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> @"Odik.4587" said:

> > @"ArlAlt.1630" said:

> > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said:

> > > > Soooo @"Odik.4587" did some testing today. Sind is correct that SA>DA in terms of damage. However said damage is so absurd that @"bluri.2653" will have a field day trying to defend it. :D

> > >

> > > Not really? I mean you can look at his VoD for the MAT and see his damage. "Absurd" is not the word I would use to describe it. Instead, Id go with "pathetic", or "laughable". But go ahead, tell us what that "absurd" damage is.

> >

> > I'll leave it to @"Odik.4587" for numbers that ignore Armor.

> The combo I did was simple P/d 5-HS->steal->backstab, nothing fancy, idk why you want me to post it.

> On heavy golem it was around... SA 6901 , DA 7300.

> Light golem DA: 8949, SA 8600. (pure BS+HS on SA was 6379 and leeching stuff that ignored armor... 2159)

 

Thats ... supposed to be your "absurd" damage? At most 9k damage off of a combination of 3 skills and steal? Overexaggeration it is. Notable, thats towards ArlAlt. You simply reported the damage you have, and that does appear to be realistic. Assuming you used Assassin's Signet.

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> @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said:

> > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said:

> > > > > Soooo @"Odik.4587" did some testing today. Sind is correct that SA>DA in terms of damage. However said damage is so absurd that @"bluri.2653" will have a field day trying to defend it. :D

> > > >

> > > > Not really? I mean you can look at his VoD for the MAT and see his damage. "Absurd" is not the word I would use to describe it. Instead, Id go with "pathetic", or "laughable". But go ahead, tell us what that "absurd" damage is.

> > >

> > > I'll leave it to @"Odik.4587" for numbers that ignore Armor.

> > The combo I did was simple P/d 5-HS->steal->backstab, nothing fancy, idk why you want me to post it.

> > On heavy golem it was around... SA 6901 , DA 7300.

> > Light golem DA: 8949, SA 8600. (pure BS+HS on SA was 6379 and leeching stuff that ignored armor... 2159)

>

> Thats ... supposed to be your "absurd" damage? At most 9k damage off of a combination of 3 skills and steal? Overexaggeration it is. Notable, thats towards ArlAlt. You simply reported the damage you have, and that does appear to be realistic. Assuming you used Assassin's Signet.

I didnt, keep your F grade at math for someone else.

I didnt even use daredevil evades to gain any bonus damage from the trait that gives 5% damage per missing endurance bar, not even a single time. Add 15% damage to this numbers for highest damage output.

Edited my initial post, clarifying what amulet/rune I used)

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> @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said:

> > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said:

> > > > > Soooo @"Odik.4587" did some testing today. Sind is correct that SA>DA in terms of damage. However said damage is so absurd that @"bluri.2653" will have a field day trying to defend it. :D

> > > >

> > > > Not really? I mean you can look at his VoD for the MAT and see his damage. "Absurd" is not the word I would use to describe it. Instead, Id go with "pathetic", or "laughable". But go ahead, tell us what that "absurd" damage is.

> > >

> > > I'll leave it to @"Odik.4587" for numbers that ignore Armor.

> > The combo I did was simple P/d 5-HS->steal->backstab, nothing fancy, idk why you want me to post it.

> > On heavy golem it was around... SA 6901 , DA 7300.

> > Light golem DA: 8949, SA 8600. (pure BS+HS on SA was 6379 and leeching stuff that ignored armor... 2159)

>

> Thats ... supposed to be your "absurd" damage? At most 9k damage off of a combination of 3 skills and steal? Overexaggeration it is. Notable, thats towards ArlAlt. You simply reported the damage you have, and that does appear to be realistic. Assuming you used Assassin's Signet.

 

Now consider how often you can apply said damage, compared to ~30 sec heal for your opponent. Then tell me how it's exaggerated.

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> @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> @"UNOwen.7132"

> what does core nade engineer have to thief? just curious

 

What do you mean "what does it have to thief?". Do you mean what its damage is comparatively? Nade Barrage hits up to 9k on its own. More if you got some might stacks off of HGH, Elixir B or Elixir C.

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> @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > > Can't wait for the mathematician to chime in, say its all false and call you all a bunch of liars B)

> > >

> > > Called it. =)

> > >

> >

> > What, youre surprised that I would call them out for saying something people know well to be impossible? We know thieves damage. We have seen it. Its not even half as good as Core Nade Engineers damage. And much as I love that build, its not even top tier.

>

> We know, you don't.

 

No, you clearly dont. And I clearly do.

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> @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > @"UNOwen.7132"

> > what does core nade engineer have to thief? just curious

>

> What do you mean "what does it have to thief?". Do you mean what its damage is comparatively? Nade Barrage hits up to 9k on its own. More if you got some might stacks off of HGH, Elixir B or Elixir C.

 

sure, but what does that have to thief? its not about how much dmg something deals, its about how much damage, how often and how reliably it deals dmg.

Thief is the best roamer does to speed, and its goot at +1 becouse most of its offensive skills are insta cast, or super fast cast that can be moved by other skills ( steal, shadowstep, signet ) add in stealth and the damge is very reliable. It doesnt hit as hard as warrior jacked up on might but when you jump someone that fights 1v1, you dont need to down him solo, you do 40% ally deals 60% and enemy is boomed.

Didnt watch the mAT but from the teamcomp alone ( thief + rev + mirage ) its safe to say that none of them can +1 all that well, but their gameplan is prolly to just appear and boom someone 1v3/1v4. Just focus down someone vomint all dmg you can be it 10k or 2k and enemy dies anyways becouse its 3-4 people hitting you.

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> @"ArlAlt.1630" said:

> > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said:

> > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said:

> > > > > > Soooo @"Odik.4587" did some testing today. Sind is correct that SA>DA in terms of damage. However said damage is so absurd that @"bluri.2653" will have a field day trying to defend it. :D

> > > > >

> > > > > Not really? I mean you can look at his VoD for the MAT and see his damage. "Absurd" is not the word I would use to describe it. Instead, Id go with "pathetic", or "laughable". But go ahead, tell us what that "absurd" damage is.

> > > >

> > > > I'll leave it to @"Odik.4587" for numbers that ignore Armor.

> > > The combo I did was simple P/d 5-HS->steal->backstab, nothing fancy, idk why you want me to post it.

> > > On heavy golem it was around... SA 6901 , DA 7300.

> > > Light golem DA: 8949, SA 8600. (pure BS+HS on SA was 6379 and leeching stuff that ignored armor... 2159)

> >

> > Thats ... supposed to be your "absurd" damage? At most 9k damage off of a combination of 3 skills and steal? Overexaggeration it is. Notable, thats towards ArlAlt. You simply reported the damage you have, and that does appear to be realistic. Assuming you used Assassin's Signet.

>

> Now consider how often you can apply said damage, compared to ~30 sec heal for your opponent. Then tell me how it's exaggerated.

 

Why are you comparing damage to a single heal skill? I dont know about you, but I would compare damage to, well, *other damage*. And compared to other damage, this is pretty low. I mean as I said, Core Engineer blows it out of the water. I dont think it fares much better against Power Revs damage.

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