Doug.4930

> @"Dawdler.8521" said: > **There should be 1:1 healing restriction** *<- delete power res* > **Rally should be removed** *<- delete rally botting, more teamwork to res* > **Downed penalty should be upped to 33% (ie 3 states with 66% HP start, instead of 4 with 75% HP start)** *<- harder penalties, more time to stomp* > **Downed penalty timer should be 3x longer per state** *<- harder penalties* > > When this is done you can even buff some downed state skills, yes. This would be a great way to start balancing downstate. Balance should be done with a chisel never a sledge hammer.

> @"Yasai.3549" said: > Condi Rev may be brain dead, but its effectiveness only extends to how knowledgeable their opponent is. Yea but that logic can be applied to every class/build in the game. > If their opponent knows how to approach a Condi rev, Condi revs are actually not too bad, especially when compared to roaming powerhouses like MM Reapers or Core Necros. This comment seems to imply that MM and reapers/core necros are anywhere near comparable to condi heralds in effectiveness for roaming. I would rather 2v1 a core and reaper necros than 1v1 a condi herald. Condi herald is the standout in the crowd right now for winning fights when roaming. Other classes outshine it in other areas such as mobility. But if you want the most meta build that makes everything die and has no real counter other than out-skilling them by a substantial amount, then condi herald is what you run.

> @"Sarrs.4831" said: > Honestly I'm perfectly happy with the no-down-state weeks. Hopefully we can get them more regularly; perhaps once every two months. That would be pretty good. 7 days out of 56 where I would log in and play all day before logging out before waiting another 2 months.

> @"God.2708" said: > > @"Doug.4930" said: > > > > ......... > > > > What? Berserker? Of all the stats to draw comparisons to that's the one you chose? Your point is any group not running berserker gear will lose to groups that are running zerk?? Ill humour you. Tell me, assuming 2 duo roamer groups are equally skilled, 2 condi heralds vs 2 berserker heralds. Who wins? Or hell one berserker herald and one condi herald against 2 condi heralds? Spoiler alert the condi builds win. Because condi is typically stronger roaming. Despite the fact that berserker herald is more than viable it just isn't going to stand up to condi stats like dire/trailblazer. > > > > So..... im not really sure how you think berserker substitutes for minstrel at all. Its all too common that a group that is running zerk will lose to groups running dire, cele or other gear stats. But you throw a minstrel support class into that 2v2 [EDIT: Or any size fight to be honest] and whichever duo [or group] thats running it now becomes un-killable. All other gear stats are now irrelevant. Because like i said above no gear/build comes close to rivaling how much a minsterl support class brings to the table in ANY WvW related fight large or small. > > > > So you can edit my post to replace minstrel with any gear stat. Personally I would have gone with Marauders/trailblazer/dire etc as those gear stats are usually more powerful than straight zerk. But none of them, not even trailblazer which is an abomination in its own right comes close to affecting/breaking the game as much as minstrel gear does. > > > > Two people spiking properly will eat through even dire or minstrel gear. If you think two (or any number of) people coordinating builds to work together should lose to two people simply playing... I don't think you understand how teamwork works. > > you're going to need to timestamp that video. And sure I'm willing to concede that 2 experienced players in voice comms can gank a minstrel player that doesn't know what their buttons do. But fights with groups partied up that know what their skills do are decided by whichever group has the minstrel. I could link video's of players winning 1v1's with a single offhand weapon only. Doesn't mean its balanced for people to use one single hand weapon. > @"Mil.3562" said: > This is the reason why i quitted WvW about a year ago. You guys are still at each other's neck calling for more nerfs to professions, runes and sigils. Omg xD Such is life when the game is balanced once every 4 months. EDIT: Tried looking through that video, too long.

> @"God.2708" said: > > @"Doug.4930" said: > > > @"subversiontwo.7501" said: > > > > @"Doug.4930" said: > > > > Lets be honest though, the real problem with these supports is minstrel gear stat. The amount of boon spam/cleansing/healing these pocket healers can dish out all whilst being mobile tanks is insane. > > > > > > > > These supports don't support the group they're in. They outright carry them. > > > > > > Did you just take every word you didn't like and threw them together in a couple of sentences? > > > > > > The gear makes them do two things, yes, tank and heal as heals don't crit or extend. That's similar to condition damage on classes that don't need crit or expertise to be effective. The gear doesn't give more buttons to push. Also, pocket healing is generally just when you put support around what used to be a solo roamer. In most common cases its simply a healer. Is the healing too much? The devs did what is still a fairly recent balance pass and seems happy with the balance between heals and damage. > > > > By fairly recent I'm assuming you're talking by anet standards. So within a year? Are you implying the devs being happy with the balance means its balanced? Devs also seem to be happy with the amount of content they release for WvW. > > > > Also you're right about condition damage. Blows my mind that condi herald is still not nerfed. But I can understand that condi herald is only good in certain situations like roaming. Minstrel builds are so over-tuned that they break the game in any mode of WvW in which they are present. Zerging/Havoc/Roaming you name it. If you come across a group running minstrel healers and you aren't, you lose. > > > > So yea condi builds are a plague that only infect the circles that I walk in which ill admit is roaming. I understand that nerfing them will make them even less viable in larger scale where power is still king for damage. So I appreciate the predicament despite my personal bias. Minstrel however is a plague that has spread to every facet of this game mode. It dominates the meta in everything it touches. > > You either run minstrel gear or you lose to the group that does. Skill becomes irrelevant. The boon spam, the heals, the cleansing, the projectile hate, how tanky they are. It just brings way too much to the table for the price of nothing. > > Also you're right about condition damage. Blows my mind that condi herald is still not nerfed. But I can understand that condi herald is only good in certain situations like roaming. Berserker builds are so over-tuned that they break the game in any mode of WvW in which they are present. Zerging/Havoc/Roaming you name it. If you come across a group running Berserker DPS and you aren't, you lose. > > So yea condi builds are a plague that only infect the circles that I walk in which ill admit is roaming. I understand that nerfing them will make them even less viable in larger scale where power is still king for damage. So I appreciate the predicament despite my personal bias. Berserker however is a plague that has spread to every facet of this game mode. It dominates the meta in everything it touches. > > You either run berserker gear or you lose to the group that does. Skill becomes irrelevant. The boon spam, the damage, the strips, the projectile hate, how powerful they are. It just brings way too much to the table for the price of nothing. > > ????????????????????????????? > I can sort of appreciate your sentiment, but your argument doesn't amount to much when you can replace the primary keyword and it still be true. ......... What? Berserker? Of all the stats to draw comparisons to that's the one you chose? Your point is any group not running berserker gear will lose to groups that are running zerk?? Ill humour you. Tell me, assuming 2 duo roamer groups are equally skilled, 2 condi heralds vs 2 berserker heralds. Who wins? Or hell one berserker herald and one condi herald against 2 condi heralds? Spoiler alert the condi builds win. Because condi is typically stronger roaming. Despite the fact that berserker herald is more than viable it just isn't going to stand up to condi stats like dire/trailblazer. So..... im not really sure how you think berserker substitutes for minstrel at all. Its all too common that a group that is running zerk will lose to groups running dire, cele or other gear stats. But you throw a minstrel support class into that 2v2 [EDIT: Or any size fight to be honest] and whichever duo [or group] thats running it now becomes un-killable. All other gear stats are now irrelevant. Because like i said above no gear/build comes close to rivaling how much a minsterl support class brings to the table in ANY WvW related fight large or small. So you can edit my post to replace minstrel with any gear stat. Personally I would have gone with Marauders/trailblazer/dire etc as those gear stats are usually more powerful than straight zerk. But none of them, not even trailblazer which is an abomination in its own right comes close to affecting/breaking the game as much as minstrel gear does.

> @"subversiontwo.7501" said: > > @"Doug.4930" said: > > Lets be honest though, the real problem with these supports is minstrel gear stat. The amount of boon spam/cleansing/healing these pocket healers can dish out all whilst being mobile tanks is insane. > > > > These supports don't support the group they're in. They outright carry them. > > Did you just take every word you didn't like and threw them together in a couple of sentences? > > The gear makes them do two things, yes, tank and heal as heals don't crit or extend. That's similar to condition damage on classes that don't need crit or expertise to be effective. The gear doesn't give more buttons to push. Also, pocket healing is generally just when you put support around what used to be a solo roamer. In most common cases its simply a healer. Is the healing too much? The devs did what is still a fairly recent balance pass and seems happy with the balance between heals and damage. By fairly recent I'm assuming you're talking by anet standards. So within a year? Are you implying the devs being happy with the balance means its balanced? Devs also seem to be happy with the amount of content they release for WvW. Also you're right about condition damage. Blows my mind that condi herald is still not nerfed. But I can understand that condi herald is only good in certain situations like roaming. Minstrel builds are so over-tuned that they break the game in any mode of WvW in which they are present. Zerging/Havoc/Roaming you name it. If you come across a group running minstrel healers and you aren't, you lose. So yea condi builds are a plague that only infect the circles that I walk in which ill admit is roaming. I understand that nerfing them will make them even less viable in larger scale where power is still king for damage. So I appreciate the predicament despite my personal bias. Minstrel however is a plague that has spread to every facet of this game mode. It dominates the meta in everything it touches. You either run minstrel gear or you lose to the group that does. Skill becomes irrelevant. The boon spam, the heals, the cleansing, the projectile hate, how tanky they are. It just brings way too much to the table for the price of nothing.

Lets be honest though, the real problem with these supports is minstrel gear stat. The amount of boon spam/cleansing/healing these pocket healers can dish out all whilst being mobile tanks is insane. These supports don't support the group they're in. They outright carry them.

Or you know, you guys could just run a dragon hunter. In which case the only thing you need to consider when fighting a DE is whether or not your inventory has enough space for the bag you are about to receive. The only valid complaint is the same as its always been. D/P thief being able to attack from stealth with absolutely no tell whatsoever. Just whack, 6k opening from stealth. Best way to address that is to fix stealth stacking. Limit the amount of individual stealth stacks. Preferably stacks gained through combo fields that D/P in particular is the most effective at abusing. Using dodges and utilities for stealth is far more cost heavy than spending initiative when your main damage skill is not dependent on initiative. To continue being fair also the above changes should be contingent with marked being reworked in WvW. You can't ask for justified nerfs whilst being happy with a mechanic existing in the game that negates an entire thief traitline and two thief weapon sets. Two seconds followed by a 6 second reveal punishes the class in general not only those abusing perma stealth. Also yea hiding in keeps is too easy now that anet has given us build/gear templates. Just make a tank thief build and no group with less than 10 people is going to be able to kill you.

> @"Dawdler.8521" said: > Got to love that people just pick up replying, as if this isnt a 5 month threadnecro that should have stayed buried. > > It was also an awful poll that dumped everything - especially conflicting ideas - into one forced choice and its still an awful poll now. Well i mean its either that or make another thread. I think general consensus from the community is that downstate needs changing in some way. I have no doubt that anet will surely respond to a downstate thread soon giving the community of WvW an update of their plans for it in the future. Surely followed by a quick and speedy patch with some juicy and unexpected WvW content.

Its already been said but the reason for the 5 player cap is that the servers would combust if the cap was higher or non existent. Some people will say the caps there for balance. But blobs are one of the worst things about wvw. There is no drawback or sacrifice made by blobbing. Its nothing but positives. But due to the technology of the day its something we need to live with. I can only imagine the tactics that talented commanders/drivers could implement if the limit was not in place. But as has been said its an impossibility so the larger blob will usually always win. You hear stories of people claiming that single digit teams have taken out 40-50 size blobs, and I'm sure its happened on some occasions in this games history. But the stars need to perfectly align and the 40 newest/worst players in the game need to come together for it to be possible. maybe a squad of 10 could wipe 30 every once in a blue moon. But less than 10 vs 40+? Probably has happened at some point, but infrequently enough that it can colloquially be said its impossible.

> @"steki.1478" said: > Use trailblazer herald, it's one of the strongest solo builds nowadays. Pretty much this if you never want to lose a 1v1. Classes like thief ranger and warrior are better if you want to take on multiple opponents and runaway. (effectiveness in that order)