Supreme.3164

> @"JazzXman.7018" said: > i added an index/ timestamp comment under the interview vid part 2, so you can see when we talk about what and can right jump to the topics you are interested in It was definitely a welcome change of opinion from convention about Infinite Horizon, most mesmers I believe want to keep that trait while regain the 2nd dodge and just nerf Ambush skills on the staff but as you correctly pointed out that trait just cheapen the whole class making it much more accesssible for better or for worst. Although I cannot in good conscience suggest to remove IH when all other professions have similar cheapening traits/mechanics that make the respective class easier to play and such I tend to agree with other mesmers in reintegrating the second dodge and just nerf instead the ambush skills on staff and scepter or axe I can't remember now All in all, you made me remember why I used to frown in my chair at the sight of a power mesmer...scary sight indeed, well played

> @"Ragnar.4257" said: > Guardian beats mesmer, engi, thief > Guardian is 50/50 with necro, warrior, these matchups really come down to skill or 1 lucky hit turning everything around. > Guardian loses to rev/ren, ranger, weaver > > So, no, guardian is not "the strongest". If you're a mesmer or thief I can imagine you'd think that. But if you're a renegade guardians are free food. Guardian actually has a fairly balanced mix of matchups, with some being easy and some being very hard. > > I'm assuming this is a troll post; the above is just an FYI for anyone else reading this. If it isn't a troll post...... yikes. Just try asking anyone in the top 100 what the strongest 1v1 class is. It'll be a looooong time before anyone says "guardian". Really Mesmer beats guardian and ranger is 50/50 based as you correctly states on personal skill level, if the ranger isn't using MM or warhorn , he will have a hard time getting through the block rotations of a guardian who knows what he's doing, plus a glass cannon build user will have less condi cleanse than a bruiser build and overall Spear of Justice can make life miserable for unprepared rangers as it removes one of their main tools to survive : Stealth...against mesmer it's not the same as they have multiple sources of stealth with shorter CD and can more easily disengage from SJ range thx to Blink and Jaunt, also SJ won't go through Distortion as it's not a block Then mesmer can use clones to trigger traps and stealth repositioning to tire out any guardian spec, really only pre-nerf FB had a solid chance against well played mesmers, in the end for me only engi is a match up in my favour; mesmer is an unfavourable matchup and the rest is 50/50

> @"apharma.3741" said: > > @"Supreme.3164" said: > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said: > > > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said: > > > > > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > > > > Honestly this post highlights a serious issue, that soulbeast in WvW needs to be brought much closer to PvP and should be nerfed in WvW. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not joking, PvP and WvW balance should be incredibly close in my opinion, most things that are too strong in one mode can be changed in a way that fixes it in one mode and is no change to the other....assuming the skills team graciously allows the balance team to make a change. > > > > > > > > > > > > Really the only things that WvW ranger has over PvP ranger are : > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) Dolyak stance > > > > > > 2) Celestial form CD from 20 down to 10 > > > > > > 3) Regen traits having longer base duration > > > > > > > > > > > > For the rest it's basically the same as in PvP, the pets and dmg have been nerfed universally for the class and therefore if you'd change the last things this class has in WvW, same should happen to everybody else like : condi herald , necro and **grenade holo** especially that still enjoy unnerfed values like ranger > > > > > > > > > > Yes and it should be the same for all. You and I are in agreement. > > > > > > > > But that would not change anything in the grand scheme of things in the end anyway if you think about it > > > > > > Then why create the thread in the first place? > > > > > > The other classes need bringing down too, you'd know this if you've seen what the small groups are like at the moment. > > > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said: > > > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said: > > > > > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > > > > Honestly this post highlights a serious issue, that soulbeast in WvW needs to be brought much closer to PvP and should be nerfed in WvW. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not joking, PvP and WvW balance should be incredibly close in my opinion, most things that are too strong in one mode can be changed in a way that fixes it in one mode and is no change to the other....assuming the skills team graciously allows the balance team to make a change. > > > > > > > > > > > > Really the only things that WvW ranger has over PvP ranger are : > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) Dolyak stance > > > > > > 2) Celestial form CD from 20 down to 10 > > > > > > 3) Regen traits having longer base duration > > > > > > > > > > > > For the rest it's basically the same as in PvP, the pets and dmg have been nerfed universally for the class and therefore if you'd change the last things this class has in WvW, same should happen to everybody else like : condi herald , necro and **grenade holo** especially that still enjoy unnerfed values like ranger > > > > > > > > > > Yes and it should be the same for all. You and I are in agreement. > > > > > > > > But that would not change anything in the grand scheme of things in the end anyway if you think about it > > > > > > Then why create the thread in the first place? > > > > > > The other classes need bringing down too, you'd know this if you've seen what the small groups are like at the moment. > > > > Because I believe that even with unnerfed values , the ranger class would still not see major play in PvP , we removed boonbeast- bird tank -bunker druid and sic'em burst and that's great! So why go and double tap on the only useful stance soulbeast has left? Even with a 40s CD dolyak stance there would be no boonbeast , no bunker ..nothing of what happened in the past but at the very least the spec would be more useful for general PvP outside the +1 glass meme > > > > The main reason to use soulbeast is to gain access to an additional source of stability which the class severely lacks, if you want you can go and remove the dmg/condi reduction effects it wouldn't matter ...the stability is the main thing. > > > > And lastly Druid : why the double CD on the main mechanic of the entire spec? Necros don't get a 20s CD to access reaper and desert shroud - tempest don't have to wait 30s to overload...so the druid change really makes no sense, you can go and change the actual traits that make druid strong, reduce their duration/effect in PvP..but allow rangers to access the druid mechanic with the same 10s CD across all game modes > > > > Finally yeah, I know the composition of "roaming" gank team and applying the same changes we have in PvP, would not change that I am afraid > > Almost non of this has anything to do with the price of chips. > > Continuity between game modes is what I was saying. Regardless of the state of (in) balance, do you agree? Continuity between game modes ofc makes sense on its own but..you must consider all the gear choices players have access to in WvW compared to PvP, you simply cannot touch that, how could you? If you want to go and balance wvw like pvp, you can do so with professions but the gear choices will still make up for great part of the "imbalance" which is anyway the main attraction of the game mode You can't just remove gear and refund people, who spent thousand and thousand of gold throughout the years since launch but we can still have that "continuity" if Anet stops applying drastic changes between game modes, anything in the realm of 20-30% would be acceptable and logical.....50-60% difference is simply overkill and completely changes the way a class/spec is played

> @"kamikharzeeh.8016" said: > well but that ganking is what people build their classes for. condi rev classes are also highly feared amongst the thief players in wvw, but its not like u could even build-swap within a second while the ranger/thief demounts your glassy hammer zergset rev. if the ranger hides, it can pew pew u straight into downstate (warclaw has litearlly no armor, hammer herald can 111 it down, in three hits roughly) > > therefore any heavy dmg nerf for those two classes is fine imo. they don't do anything in largescale, so why'd u bring them to largescale and expect to be carried (or getting the 3v1s against ppl player another game as u do) > > and the people who seek duels in wvw became rare anyways. 1/20 respects that ur not playing a 1v1 specs, the others just gank you. i also honestly don't know what roamers like about roaming, since 5 ppl roamergroups became seen more often, cannot be even fun anymore either way. > (and yeah that's a vicious circle... ppl gank in three thief/ranger groups, other ppl bring 5 groups with "pocket healers" to roam, next group brings 8-10 ppl... and for those you'll need 20 ppl (if the 10 are a guild with class balance). > > ppl could just accept the meta of Wvw, which starts at fighting guilds of size 20~ up to 60 players on metabuilds. any cloud of pvp builds against a zerg or blob trades extremly bad. and its not fun for the blob either. It would be great if all professions had zerg ready builds, sadly ranger and thief don't have the luxury...that's why they focus so much on "roaming" which has you correctly explained...makes little sense in the grand scheme of things

> @"apharma.3741" said: > > @"Supreme.3164" said: > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said: > > > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > > Honestly this post highlights a serious issue, that soulbeast in WvW needs to be brought much closer to PvP and should be nerfed in WvW. > > > > > > > > > > Not joking, PvP and WvW balance should be incredibly close in my opinion, most things that are too strong in one mode can be changed in a way that fixes it in one mode and is no change to the other....assuming the skills team graciously allows the balance team to make a change. > > > > > > > > Really the only things that WvW ranger has over PvP ranger are : > > > > > > > > 1) Dolyak stance > > > > 2) Celestial form CD from 20 down to 10 > > > > 3) Regen traits having longer base duration > > > > > > > > For the rest it's basically the same as in PvP, the pets and dmg have been nerfed universally for the class and therefore if you'd change the last things this class has in WvW, same should happen to everybody else like : condi herald , necro and **grenade holo** especially that still enjoy unnerfed values like ranger > > > > > > Yes and it should be the same for all. You and I are in agreement. > > > > But that would not change anything in the grand scheme of things in the end anyway if you think about it > > Then why create the thread in the first place? > > The other classes need bringing down too, you'd know this if you've seen what the small groups are like at the moment. > @"apharma.3741" said: > > @"Supreme.3164" said: > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said: > > > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > > Honestly this post highlights a serious issue, that soulbeast in WvW needs to be brought much closer to PvP and should be nerfed in WvW. > > > > > > > > > > Not joking, PvP and WvW balance should be incredibly close in my opinion, most things that are too strong in one mode can be changed in a way that fixes it in one mode and is no change to the other....assuming the skills team graciously allows the balance team to make a change. > > > > > > > > Really the only things that WvW ranger has over PvP ranger are : > > > > > > > > 1) Dolyak stance > > > > 2) Celestial form CD from 20 down to 10 > > > > 3) Regen traits having longer base duration > > > > > > > > For the rest it's basically the same as in PvP, the pets and dmg have been nerfed universally for the class and therefore if you'd change the last things this class has in WvW, same should happen to everybody else like : condi herald , necro and **grenade holo** especially that still enjoy unnerfed values like ranger > > > > > > Yes and it should be the same for all. You and I are in agreement. > > > > But that would not change anything in the grand scheme of things in the end anyway if you think about it > > Then why create the thread in the first place? > > The other classes need bringing down too, you'd know this if you've seen what the small groups are like at the moment. Because I believe that even with unnerfed values , the ranger class would still not see major play in PvP , we removed boonbeast- bird tank -bunker druid and sic'em burst and that's great! So why go and double tap on the only useful stance soulbeast has left? Even with a 40s CD dolyak stance there would be no boonbeast , no bunker ..nothing of what happened in the past but at the very least the spec would be more useful for general PvP outside the +1 glass meme The main reason to use soulbeast is to gain access to an additional source of stability which the class severely lacks, if you want you can go and remove the dmg/condi reduction effects it wouldn't matter ...the stability is the main thing. And lastly Druid : why the double CD on the main mechanic of the entire spec? Necros don't get a 20s CD to access reaper and desert shroud - tempest don't have to wait 30s to overload...so the druid change really makes no sense, you can go and change the actual traits that make druid strong, reduce their duration/effect in PvP..but allow rangers to access the druid mechanic with the same 10s CD across all game modes Finally yeah, I know the composition of "roaming" gank team and applying the same changes we have in PvP, would not change that I am afraid

> @"SexyMofo.8923" said: > It could be worse: you can get 1 dodge taken away likes messers. You are right, it could be that bad, that's another very questionable change from Anet when many mesmers had already pointed out the issue with condi mirage....I just don't get them, they have this practice of nerfing everything around the real issue which ends up destroying the basic design concept of the spec/class -Like how they nerfed Druid repeatedly instead than remove **Ancient seed** or how they removed the unblockable from Soulbeast instead than lowering/removing **Dmg modifiers and Sic'em**, nerfing pet dmg instead than transfer part of it to ranger itself and turn pets into utility rather than first nerf pet dmg....then the ranger dmg

> @"apharma.3741" said: > > @"Supreme.3164" said: > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > Honestly this post highlights a serious issue, that soulbeast in WvW needs to be brought much closer to PvP and should be nerfed in WvW. > > > > > > Not joking, PvP and WvW balance should be incredibly close in my opinion, most things that are too strong in one mode can be changed in a way that fixes it in one mode and is no change to the other....assuming the skills team graciously allows the balance team to make a change. > > > > Really the only things that WvW ranger has over PvP ranger are : > > > > 1) Dolyak stance > > 2) Celestial form CD from 20 down to 10 > > 3) Regen traits having longer base duration > > > > For the rest it's basically the same as in PvP, the pets and dmg have been nerfed universally for the class and therefore if you'd change the last things this class has in WvW, same should happen to everybody else like : condi herald , necro and **grenade holo** especially that still enjoy unnerfed values like ranger > > Yes and it should be the same for all. You and I are in agreement. But that would not change anything in the grand scheme of things in the end anyway if you think about it

> @"kamikharzeeh.8016" said: > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > Honestly this post highlights a serious issue, that soulbeast in WvW needs to be brought much closer to PvP and should be nerfed in WvW. > > > > Not joking, PvP and WvW balance should be incredibly close in my opinion, most things that are too strong in one mode can be changed in a way that fixes it in one mode and is no change to the other....assuming the skills team graciously allows the balance team to make a change. > > as Wvw main, full agree. less broken fast dmg pew pew combined with crazy running abilities would be nice. i mainly play largescale and ranger and theif in Wvw are FAR too attractive, it kind harms the largescale format, because sometime 30 ppl rather roam around during primetime instead of grouping up and playing proper builds and classes (which ranger/thief, in Wvw, are not.) > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" well, but especially this "pure dmg" comming from the ascended armor + infusion availability peaks damage in wvw more. and ranger has mobility and quick dmg, despite man things got their damage partly stripped or fully nerfed way harder. for example, it was a mistake to nerf firebrand damage equally as others. it was a mistake to nerf herald hammer 5, bc its a very slow cc with obvious animation. > > people acting as if Wvw and spvp are even remotely the same things are just misunderstanding much of how either format works, i guess. i'm not spvp pro or sth, only grabbed a metabuild and played to gold rank in the last three weeks, since matchups make Wvw partially dead (thanks for no alliances, dear anet), therefore i cannot 100% speak wisdom in concerns of spvp balancing, but i think it's overall still similarily playable than it was before. Wvw changed towards some classes beeing unable to kill anything now. meta wasn't balanced, not top tier uses been balanced there. > > but Wvw and balance do not suit anyways. it's not safe space pvp. > > you have a ton of factors, also food, allies, keep buffs, sheer experience (theres not only plat VS plat, gold VS gold, silver VS silver etc playing... every rank runs around in Wvw. and unlike spvp divisions, wvw ranks tells u not a lot. old players can be more casual but having higher old meta farmed ranks kinda. others are based pros. hard to to classifiy by just this. servertiers are worthless in wvw as well, tells u nothing therefore. I see no reason to keep up this narrative of ranger and thief in WvW as is roaming means anything in the gamemode, all you do is build as glass cannon and "gank" people while they're using zerg builds but...the moment the zerg professions build for "roaming", ranger and thief become completely worthless.

> @"apharma.3741" said: > Honestly this post highlights a serious issue, that soulbeast in WvW needs to be brought much closer to PvP and should be nerfed in WvW. > > Not joking, PvP and WvW balance should be incredibly close in my opinion, most things that are too strong in one mode can be changed in a way that fixes it in one mode and is no change to the other....assuming the skills team graciously allows the balance team to make a change. Really the only things that WvW ranger has over PvP ranger are : 1) Dolyak stance 2) Celestial form CD from 20 down to 10 3) Regen traits having longer base duration For the rest it's basically the same as in PvP, the pets and dmg have been nerfed universally for the class and therefore if you'd change the last things this class has in WvW, same should happen to everybody else like : condi herald , necro and **grenade holo** especially that still enjoy unnerfed values like ranger

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > @"Supreme.3164" said: > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said: > > > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said: > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Yasai.3549" said: > > > > > > > > > > > No they aren't. > > > > > > > > > > > They have had their power level severely neutered, that much is true, but so did most of the Professions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Only few builds (not professions, builds) are left largely untouched and are truly thriving. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd argue that ranger is truly the only profession I don't see spammed left and right anylonger, I'd say that at best you can reach gold 3 on ranger with good luck on yourside and playing just +1 zerk core hit and run. Not enough sustain for anything else really atm on ranger, they gutted any possibility for a competitive duellist. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With all the buffs to mobility, pretty much any class can keep up with a ranger trying to kite away and that was the main source of sustain for ranger with the other being the GS block which has been severely nerfed to uselness, it's the only source of blocking on the class and now the long CD made it that much worst. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I really don't see nearly as many rangers as before...actually I see many more eles than rangers now and it's a first, the best PvP build for the class is rated as good for max Gold rank so...I don't think my thread is that wrong > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I dont know man, when Im on ranger I get 3x to 4x the healing I get usually on mesmer, often even get most healing in team. > > > > > > > > > as for ranger block, its still one of the best if not the best in the entire game. You are just used to old block which was so kitten broken it was better then the best defensive skills of other classes, and in fact it was so kitten OP, it was usually better then 2 to 3 other defensive skills combined. > > > > > > > > > Like yes, ranger is not the hot stuff meta OP like other kitten builds going around but its not bad either. Proj hate going around and bunker healer kitten really hurts the ranger RN but it might change any moment. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well I have said that you can reach gold 3 with the class so yeah...it's playable but definitely not META, in the last couple of months they were like 0 ranger both in NA and EU mats semi and finals that must mean something. And yeah the projectile hate really hurts , I hope next elite will offers a different playstyle > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my ranger is not even 30 days old and im gold 3 while duo - queueing with another friend that also plays class that he doesnt know how to play. > > > > > > > ranger can definitely reach higher ranks, wont be too hard to push past p1/p2 > > > > > > > in the end it will boil down to meta being bad for ranger, from renegade and guards proj hate, inability to stop support warrior from bannering reliably and getting kitten on by random DH trap and DH in general doing better. Cant cleave or stomp right hurts the ranger, why not play dh, throw a spinny sword and get 20k dmg. > > > > > > > > > > > > Ranger is a low skill ceiling class as such it will do good at average and below skill level. Most nerfs were on point...(...) > > > > > > > > > > Apart from mATs, where it struggles in coordinated bursts, and apart from druid: Core ranger is played incredibly often in high plat. Druids too, some soulbeasts with memes as well. > > > > > > > > > > No idea where you got your numbers. I will take statistics for a few days and post them here. > > > > > > > > I never considered ranked as any indication of balance and class distribution, I repeat that ranger is a low skill ceiling class that will do good at average and below skill level and **nobody ever said that Platinum is free from average and below skill level**. > > > > (...) > > > > > > What do you mean here? There is plenty of ranger players in Top100. It suffers in coordinated team games - not talking about druid -, but it needs no buffs. Adjustments, maybe. > > > > > > > In simpler terms : Ranger is a noob stomper class > > since when plat 2 + are noobs? aka new players ? It's common to have builds of different effort requirements and reward output so it's impossible to state that every single player in platinum was able to break the wall of mediocrity from Gold. The words : noob stomper may have been taken out of context and considered now as some sort of offensive moniker for the people who fall to it; then let's me re-phrase my post. Let me start by saying that I never agreed with builds like : boonbeast- extreme sic'em -bunker druid - tanky beastmastery and with this said I can continue . The nerfs this class has received have been heavy handed , as I stated before in this thread already, most nerfs were justified...some other nerfs were completely unnecessary and have crippled the class.

> @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > @"Supreme.3164" said: > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said: > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said: > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Yasai.3549" said: > > > > > > > > > No they aren't. > > > > > > > > > They have had their power level severely neutered, that much is true, but so did most of the Professions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Only few builds (not professions, builds) are left largely untouched and are truly thriving. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd argue that ranger is truly the only profession I don't see spammed left and right anylonger, I'd say that at best you can reach gold 3 on ranger with good luck on yourside and playing just +1 zerk core hit and run. Not enough sustain for anything else really atm on ranger, they gutted any possibility for a competitive duellist. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With all the buffs to mobility, pretty much any class can keep up with a ranger trying to kite away and that was the main source of sustain for ranger with the other being the GS block which has been severely nerfed to uselness, it's the only source of blocking on the class and now the long CD made it that much worst. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I really don't see nearly as many rangers as before...actually I see many more eles than rangers now and it's a first, the best PvP build for the class is rated as good for max Gold rank so...I don't think my thread is that wrong > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I dont know man, when Im on ranger I get 3x to 4x the healing I get usually on mesmer, often even get most healing in team. > > > > > > > as for ranger block, its still one of the best if not the best in the entire game. You are just used to old block which was so kitten broken it was better then the best defensive skills of other classes, and in fact it was so kitten OP, it was usually better then 2 to 3 other defensive skills combined. > > > > > > > Like yes, ranger is not the hot stuff meta OP like other kitten builds going around but its not bad either. Proj hate going around and bunker healer kitten really hurts the ranger RN but it might change any moment. > > > > > > > > > > > > Well I have said that you can reach gold 3 with the class so yeah...it's playable but definitely not META, in the last couple of months they were like 0 ranger both in NA and EU mats semi and finals that must mean something. And yeah the projectile hate really hurts , I hope next elite will offers a different playstyle > > > > > > > > > > my ranger is not even 30 days old and im gold 3 while duo - queueing with another friend that also plays class that he doesnt know how to play. > > > > > ranger can definitely reach higher ranks, wont be too hard to push past p1/p2 > > > > > in the end it will boil down to meta being bad for ranger, from renegade and guards proj hate, inability to stop support warrior from bannering reliably and getting kitten on by random DH trap and DH in general doing better. Cant cleave or stomp right hurts the ranger, why not play dh, throw a spinny sword and get 20k dmg. > > > > > > > > Ranger is a low skill ceiling class as such it will do good at average and below skill level. Most nerfs were on point...(...) > > > > > > Apart from mATs, where it struggles in coordinated bursts, and apart from druid: Core ranger is played incredibly often in high plat. Druids too, some soulbeasts with memes as well. > > > > > > No idea where you got your numbers. I will take statistics for a few days and post them here. > > > > I never considered ranked as any indication of balance and class distribution, I repeat that ranger is a low skill ceiling class that will do good at average and below skill level and **nobody ever said that Platinum is free from average and below skill level**. > > (...) > > What do you mean here? There is plenty of ranger players in Top100. It suffers in coordinated team games - not talking about druid -, but it needs no buffs. Adjustments, maybe. > In simpler terms : Ranger is a noob stomper class

> @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > @"Supreme.3164" said: > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said: > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said: > > > > > > > @"Yasai.3549" said: > > > > > > > No they aren't. > > > > > > > They have had their power level severely neutered, that much is true, but so did most of the Professions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Only few builds (not professions, builds) are left largely untouched and are truly thriving. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd argue that ranger is truly the only profession I don't see spammed left and right anylonger, I'd say that at best you can reach gold 3 on ranger with good luck on yourside and playing just +1 zerk core hit and run. Not enough sustain for anything else really atm on ranger, they gutted any possibility for a competitive duellist. > > > > > > > > > > > > With all the buffs to mobility, pretty much any class can keep up with a ranger trying to kite away and that was the main source of sustain for ranger with the other being the GS block which has been severely nerfed to uselness, it's the only source of blocking on the class and now the long CD made it that much worst. > > > > > > > > > > > > I really don't see nearly as many rangers as before...actually I see many more eles than rangers now and it's a first, the best PvP build for the class is rated as good for max Gold rank so...I don't think my thread is that wrong > > > > > > > > > > I dont know man, when Im on ranger I get 3x to 4x the healing I get usually on mesmer, often even get most healing in team. > > > > > as for ranger block, its still one of the best if not the best in the entire game. You are just used to old block which was so kitten broken it was better then the best defensive skills of other classes, and in fact it was so kitten OP, it was usually better then 2 to 3 other defensive skills combined. > > > > > Like yes, ranger is not the hot stuff meta OP like other kitten builds going around but its not bad either. Proj hate going around and bunker healer kitten really hurts the ranger RN but it might change any moment. > > > > > > > > Well I have said that you can reach gold 3 with the class so yeah...it's playable but definitely not META, in the last couple of months they were like 0 ranger both in NA and EU mats semi and finals that must mean something. And yeah the projectile hate really hurts , I hope next elite will offers a different playstyle > > > > > > my ranger is not even 30 days old and im gold 3 while duo - queueing with another friend that also plays class that he doesnt know how to play. > > > ranger can definitely reach higher ranks, wont be too hard to push past p1/p2 > > > in the end it will boil down to meta being bad for ranger, from renegade and guards proj hate, inability to stop support warrior from bannering reliably and getting kitten on by random DH trap and DH in general doing better. Cant cleave or stomp right hurts the ranger, why not play dh, throw a spinny sword and get 20k dmg. > > > > Ranger is a low skill ceiling class as such it will do good at average and below skill level. Most nerfs were on point...(...) > > Apart from mATs, where it struggles in coordinated bursts, and apart from druid: Core ranger is played incredibly often in high plat. Druids too, some soulbeasts with memes as well. > > No idea where you got your numbers. I will take statistics for a few days and post them here. I never considered ranked as any indication of balance and class distribution, I repeat that ranger is a low skill ceiling class that will do good at average and below skill level and nobody ever said that Platinum is free from average and below skill level. I mostly consider MATS and again I never stated even once that the class was unplayable so I don't know why people act like I did. Also statistics don't work based on the results of a single individual out of thousand others, it is why MAT represents a better source of information....no room for average skill level there am I right?

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > @"Supreme.3164" said: > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said: > > > > > @"Yasai.3549" said: > > > > > No they aren't. > > > > > They have had their power level severely neutered, that much is true, but so did most of the Professions. > > > > > > > > > > Only few builds (not professions, builds) are left largely untouched and are truly thriving. > > > > > > > > I'd argue that ranger is truly the only profession I don't see spammed left and right anylonger, I'd say that at best you can reach gold 3 on ranger with good luck on yourside and playing just +1 zerk core hit and run. Not enough sustain for anything else really atm on ranger, they gutted any possibility for a competitive duellist. > > > > > > > > With all the buffs to mobility, pretty much any class can keep up with a ranger trying to kite away and that was the main source of sustain for ranger with the other being the GS block which has been severely nerfed to uselness, it's the only source of blocking on the class and now the long CD made it that much worst. > > > > > > > > I really don't see nearly as many rangers as before...actually I see many more eles than rangers now and it's a first, the best PvP build for the class is rated as good for max Gold rank so...I don't think my thread is that wrong > > > > > > I dont know man, when Im on ranger I get 3x to 4x the healing I get usually on mesmer, often even get most healing in team. > > > as for ranger block, its still one of the best if not the best in the entire game. You are just used to old block which was so kitten broken it was better then the best defensive skills of other classes, and in fact it was so kitten OP, it was usually better then 2 to 3 other defensive skills combined. > > > Like yes, ranger is not the hot stuff meta OP like other kitten builds going around but its not bad either. Proj hate going around and bunker healer kitten really hurts the ranger RN but it might change any moment. > > > > Well I have said that you can reach gold 3 with the class so yeah...it's playable but definitely not META, in the last couple of months they were like 0 ranger both in NA and EU mats semi and finals that must mean something. And yeah the projectile hate really hurts , I hope next elite will offers a different playstyle > > my ranger is not even 30 days old and im gold 3 while duo - queueing with another friend that also plays class that he doesnt know how to play. > ranger can definitely reach higher ranks, wont be too hard to push past p1/p2 > in the end it will boil down to meta being bad for ranger, from renegade and guards proj hate, inability to stop support warrior from bannering reliably and getting kitten on by random DH trap and DH in general doing better. Cant cleave or stomp right hurts the ranger, why not play dh, throw a spinny sword and get 20k dmg. Ranger is a low skill ceiling class as such it will do good at average and below skill level. Most nerfs were on point...others were rather questionable and they could have improved other aspects of Soulbeast but refused to do so, something like stance sharing increased to 100%, it would made the spec that much more useful in PvP outside the +1 role ( which can be covered as easily by other specs) The dolyak stance CD nerf was overkill , they could have removed the dmg/condi reduction effect and leave the important stability but right now at 60s CD, it makes it rather bad Finally the CD nerf on druid staff was really unnecessary

> @"Khalisto.5780" said: > Have you ever played ele? A ranger trying to out point cap an ele has really no chance atm, both fire weaver and lr weaver would kill the ranger unless he starts to kite away at which point you become useless as sidenoder as you can't keep the node. Also I like to play tempest from time to time, easier than weaver but still a solid option

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > @"Math.5123" said: > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > There is not a single spec on ranger considered even Great as far as meta goes, the highest ranger spec is rated at Good ...lol > > > > > > > Decap druid is basically played on every monthly and daily at winning team right now. But I guess that doesn't count. > > im fairly sure every ranger would rather decap druid died, kitten. I tried it once and I felt like I died on the inside, after 1 game. > Ill take legit any other build over this kitten, its peak of poor gameplay design. It's pretty bad as concept even worst that it relies on a rather important trait for druid: AS , being the only thing making druid worth using outside raids. I suspect Anets refuse to change druid because they fear a comeback for old druid bunker (despite the numerous nerfs it received) They went the wrong way about Druid, they should have focus the support aspect around the pets and not the ranger itself..But too late for any of that, they will probably nerf or remove AS making druid that much worst to use outside raids, at the very least if they remove AS they should un-nerf the CD of celestial form

Double post

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > @"Supreme.3164" said: > > > @"Yasai.3549" said: > > > No they aren't. > > > They have had their power level severely neutered, that much is true, but so did most of the Professions. > > > > > > Only few builds (not professions, builds) are left largely untouched and are truly thriving. > > > > I'd argue that ranger is truly the only profession I don't see spammed left and right anylonger, I'd say that at best you can reach gold 3 on ranger with good luck on yourside and playing just +1 zerk core hit and run. Not enough sustain for anything else really atm on ranger, they gutted any possibility for a competitive duellist. > > > > With all the buffs to mobility, pretty much any class can keep up with a ranger trying to kite away and that was the main source of sustain for ranger with the other being the GS block which has been severely nerfed to uselness, it's the only source of blocking on the class and now the long CD made it that much worst. > > > > I really don't see nearly as many rangers as before...actually I see many more eles than rangers now and it's a first, the best PvP build for the class is rated as good for max Gold rank so...I don't think my thread is that wrong > > I dont know man, when Im on ranger I get 3x to 4x the healing I get usually on mesmer, often even get most healing in team. > as for ranger block, its still one of the best if not the best in the entire game. You are just used to old block which was so kitten broken it was better then the best defensive skills of other classes, and in fact it was so kitten OP, it was usually better then 2 to 3 other defensive skills combined. > Like yes, ranger is not the hot stuff meta OP like other kitten builds going around but its not bad either. Proj hate going around and bunker healer kitten really hurts the ranger RN but it might change any moment. Well I have said that you can reach gold 3 with the class so yeah...it's playable but definitely not META, in the last couple of months they were like 0 ranger both in NA and EU mats semi and finals that must mean something. And yeah the projectile hate really hurts , I hope next elite will offers a different playstyle

> @"Yasai.3549" said: > No they aren't. > They have had their power level severely neutered, that much is true, but so did most of the Professions. > > Only few builds (not professions, builds) are left largely untouched and are truly thriving. I'd argue that ranger is truly the only profession I don't see spammed left and right anylonger, I'd say that at best you can reach gold 3 on ranger with good luck on yourside and playing just +1 zerk core hit and run. Not enough sustain for anything else really atm on ranger, they gutted any possibility for a competitive duellist. With all the buffs to mobility, pretty much any class can keep up with a ranger trying to kite away and that was the main source of sustain for ranger with the other being the GS block which has been severely nerfed to uselness, it's the only source of blocking on the class and now the long CD made it that much worst. I really don't see nearly as many rangers as before...actually I see many more eles than rangers now and it's a first, the best PvP build for the class is rated as good for max Gold rank so...I don't think my thread is that wrong

> @"Za Shaloc.3908" said: > A similar thread was created back when the big balance patch hit earlier this year, but since quite a bit of time has passed, I figured I'd start a topic on this again. > > For anybody who has been running support Druid in WvW, what have your experiences been like? I took about a 4 month break from the game but since coming back I have been playing Druid a lot. So far it has been a mixed bag for me and I don't feel like my opinions on it have changed too much: > > * Celestial Force is totally trivialized in some fights (siege-heavy ones especially), but a struggle in others. I have found the best way for me to optimize my Celestial Force gain is to try to maximize allied regen uptime. Sometimes though, there just isn't enough required healing and I can't get CA back up for when I really need it. To try to remedy this, I will at times refrain from even going into CA despite my team needing a certain degree of support, which feels really bad. Also sucks to be desperately autoing with staff to try to get CA back up while your team wipes. > > * Seed of Life cleansing 3 conditions is nice and honestly kinda nuts when you can maximize its value, but it still suffers the same issues of being a small radius with a delay. I can spike to the top of the cleanse meter at times, but in the long run, I can't really compete with the effortless cleansing of Scrapper/Tempest. > > * Glyph of the Stars is still my favorite skill in the game, hands down. CA version gained a lot of value ever since Warclaw stomping was removed, but with all the Burn Guards running around, it makes it harder to always get value from since CA GotS doesn't stop condi damage. Still though, the skill just feels amazing when you use it at a good time, both in and out of CA. Not sure which version I like better. > > * Support outside of CA still feels bad. Staff is my biggest pain point with support Druid, especially Staff 2. I don't think I really need to say much on this matter. > > * I would love a buff or rework to Invigorating Bond. It feels horrible to have a GM trait that has absolutely no scaling attached to it, and no other secondary function. Feels amazing on Soulbeast (ironically), but like total booty on Druid. > > * The healing numbers still feel amazing. The spike healing potential is totally unmatched IMO. It feels incredible to insta bring someone on the brink of death to full health. > > I mostly play with pugs, and I feel like the build excels its best in this setting since there are a lot of holes in comps. I know you can't really take pug v pug fights to prove a build's legitimacy, but at the very least I have an absolute blast playing it. I don't feel like I am playing some useless snowflake spec, I feel like I am playing something that has a strong impact on fights despite not being meta. I still have my share fair of complaints about it, but I greatly enjoy its niche nonetheless. > > Just wanted to share my thoughts here and hear others' experiences as well. Who else is playing support Druid out there? I don't see too many out there. I have the same experiences as you as I use the glyph elite just the same, love it plus **staff is one of my favourite weapons** due to the excessive projectile hate in this game...longbow/shortbow are just usable as roaming weapons with Barrage being somehow useful to tag downed for bags. All in all I love druid with the way I play, I wouldn't take anything away from it ( I am expecting AS to be removed at a certain point in line with Anet tradition of removing anything the forum complain about ), **Druidic Clarity** is a god send trait and it carries the entire elite on its own ( at least for me) , I made some power variant with druid to deal with the ever increasin condi burst "roamers" as these days.....**90% of roaming specs will be condis** Without druid I wouldn't be able to deal with all the "unnerfed" condi builds like : **condi thief - condi herald- condi mirage**, against anything else soulbeast is enough, hard in some cases but manageable . with those 3 though....without a constant cleansing /stealth...you simply can't win

Not that I want to detract anything from the general sentiment but at the end of the day this is and will remain a PvE focused MMO...like all others MMO the general setting is PvE based and that's the main reason many people bought the game. At this point the only solution would be to completely detatch PvP from the rest of the game and create something different alltogether , any further strict balance will simply ruin the game for the majority of the playerbase that is not nearly as invested in PvP. The class design is too lenient to allow a stricter interaction between professions at this point, everything has been designed to be self-sufficient and the meta will always revolve around those which are the best at that and unless you make all professions equals that will always be the case.

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > @"anduriell.6280" said: > > I have come to the conclusion burns are fine, burning is very strong true but burning is something very damaging in real life too so it makes sense burning is a burst condition. > > Spamming blind is annoying but in real life when you are blind you are blind for some seconds not just your first action. So some blind spam seems fine to me. > > Nerfing how this conditions work may need to rework full classes and i don't know it even in that case it would make much of a difference. > > > > > > U can't bring in real life and make any balance decisions based on such lol cmon so warrior hammering u on the head with a giant war hammer would only knockin down without injury/damage take, or reapers shroud 5? > Imagine stabbing someone in the back or eating multiple arrows at once(rapid fire) lol those used to be extreme almost one shot from full hp damages ie more realistic bit was deemed unbalanced and hard nerfed so.. If we'd bring real life in GW2...a single staff ele would decimate a whole zerg on his own..a single meteor storm should wipe at elast 10-20 people in one go

> @"volca.7234" said: > People who say it should be like engie kits are insane... > Engie got only 5 weapon skills that's why they get immediate access to weapon kits **BECAUSE THEY NEED IT** , Ele got 20 weapon skill more if u weaver it would be broken to get the same treatment. > My solution would be this pic i made i feel its balanced because it still favor weapon sharers, and allow you to be selfish just at the cost of longer ammo recharge > As for step 2, instead of dropping weapon if devs want to put more effort they can force action cam and make us aim for our friend target that we want to share with, that would be cool but doubt they will do it > >  > > Engis have effectively 20 skills as many as ele = 5 weapon skill + 5 (F1-5) + 10 from 2 different kits on the utility slots for a total of 20 different skills

> @"TheAgedGnome.7520" said: > [Weave Self](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Weave_Self) looks like possibly the most contrived, clumsy and ineffective elite skill I've seen. I'm trying to imagine how it might be useful to purposefully cycle through all 4 attunements within 20 sec, so that I can get 10 sec of buffs or a 2.5 sec CC with [Tailored Victory](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Tailored_Victory). And with a 90 sec CD, the next use of it is about 60-70 sec away. > > Am I missing something? Best elite for weaver...if not for ele in general, it offers amazing stats increase and the ability to CC several people if chosen to do so; I use it as a clutch to get out of an incoming gank thx to the increased stats...overall the best elite eles ever had, hands down..nothing compares to it in terms of usefulness. 1) Rebound is without doubt the 2nd best elite for eles, high clutch healing+ aoe aura share...good elite 2) I hate conjures and FGS seems a waste of elite slot for me 3) Tornado is a suicide mission most times than not, other than potentially CC the enemy...this elite does nothing much in terms of dmg, average ele will die 6/10 using this elite...the idea itself that an elite could kill you...it's absurd , worst transform elite 4) Glyph is mostly PvE and does a good enough job I guess

> @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > @"Supreme.3164" said: > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said: > > > > (...) **MMO are all about collaboration between professions/jobs to reach a common goal not for you to have a glorius 1v1**. > > > > (...) > > > > > > When a build can fight 90% of the situations (teamfights, duels, +1 situations) and gets countered by a build which only wins these duels, is this really stone-paper-scissors? > > > > > > > Would have not been better in that case to add something new to the "duel only" class to bring something to teamfight while lowering the teamfight potential of the other at the same time? > > > > -Most players would call it "powercreep" but...for me adding a teamfight utility or trait to the "duel only" class , sounds like "increased build diversity" > > -It has always been absurd that people would consider normal that in a game with 9 different professions, you watch a tournament being played by "mirror builds" teams in a 5vs5 gamemode > > > > Powercreep happens when you take something that it's already strong in its role and you make it stronger....**increasing build diversity is not powercreep**, when you have only one way to play your class...and it gets nerfed...you can't play the class anymore, can that really be called improvement? > > > > > > I don't get your point. What is it you are angry about? What changes do you not like, what philosophy? > > Nobody expects do be able to duel anything. but when there are builds good in almost any situation, that is somethign that needs addressing. I am not trying to make any point out of anger.....I am trying to show another point of view to the "eternal" nerf debate. Say you have this build "good" at everything ... -what its main source of dmg? -how does it survive during teamfights? The community and the devs should be answering those questions first...**instead than blanket nerf that build** add something that **soft-counter** that build ( the keyword here is : soft- counter ), blanket nerf that spec...only to be replaced by another spec on another class doing exactly the same thing...what did you accomplish in the end?....nothing, you only made the game worst because : 1)You removed one class from the scene 2) Less diverse team compositions 3) Reduced playerbase Yes..you nerf side node ele..it get replaced with bunker mesmer then you nerf mesmer...it get replaced with engi then you nerf it.....it get replaced by ranger...then war...then revenant...then necro etc etc etc All this nerfing and **the game never shapes the way you'd want** ....but let's remember that I am not against nerfing, it is necessary to the wellbeing of a game but you need **buffing** alongside it to keep the game alive and thriving . Answer this question for me : Is it better to watch a team with 3 revenant win a tournament or...watching a tournament with teams using all 9 different professions with imaginative tactics ?...Constant nerfing will only results in the first case ofc...

> @"Bazsi.2734" said: > I must have ascended to the quantum level because I'm on both sides at once. > All parties are to be blamed for this chaos and most of all **I agree with your idea of professions have their own identity** but for most part this community refuses to accept these identities : if any MMO if I fight say..a ranger I would be expecting to be ranged to death..but here people are angry about the idea? If I fight an elemental mage I am expecting to be torched/electrocuted/blinded etc etc....but here people say no to that......If I fight a thief/assassin...yeah it's gonna be a tough/annoying fight...but here people whine about it? This community is the first do not accept the identity of each class...asking for nerfs when this identity goes against their idea of "fairness"