snoow.1694

> @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > @"snoow.1694" said:

> > It happens surprisingly often in ranked that 2 people spend around 30 to 60 seconds of time 2v1‘ing an opponent, which results in the loss of all the other points when 1 person would have been enough to get the job done

>

> This and the title are not the same thing, but I still agree with your point.

>

> The difference between 10% and downstate is only a fraction of a second to a couple of seconds, but I'd leave before down if I was not **constantly plagued by getting a player in a 2v1 to 10% and thinking my teammate has it, only for them to lose both the fight and the point when I move somewhere else. **

>

> That being said, if you're 2v1ing someone for 30-60 seconds, you're being baited while your team gets steamrolled. Don't do that. If you can't instamelt someone 2v1 under 30 seconds, chances are:

>

> * That enemy is a bunker designed to waste time.

> * Your teammate will be just fine contesting that point and not dying without your help since most bunkers have garbo damage output.

>

>

>

>

I absolutely agree and also with the point that the title of the thread was maybe a little misleading. I also think it is absolutely correct calling those fights baits, since the rest of the team ends up being farmed if too much time is spent finishing one person

> @"Terrorhuz.4695" said:

> You trust your teammates enough to finish the job? I don't.

> Yesterday I fought a match where the enemy made a comeback from >400 to winning while we were at 497.

>

> And there was a downed thief which was reviving himself and nobody did a kitten thing about him.

Yes that is always the danger, but it is all about probablity and logic. The probablity of your teammate - without knowing them - finishing an opponent at 10-30% is higher than the person failing, statistically seen. Plus if we think about it logically it is far better joining into a 4v4, maybe steamroll the enemy team and cap 2 points even when the team mate loses the 1v1 against an opponent at 10-30%, because only one point would end up in the other teams possession. Of course that is just theory and there are far more factors deciding the outcome of a match, but to embrace avoiding fights that aren't necessary results in better rotations

It is common knowledge that the concept of correctly rotating and +1‘ing is the key to competitive PvP to not have a shortage of players on other areas of a map. Even worse is seeing people up in Plat still doing the mistake of „overkilling“ opponents in 2v1 situations - meaning spending time in a 2v1 until the enemy enters the downstate, when that is not necessary in most situations and can lead to the map falling into the other teams hands, because teammates are left in a 3v4. It is more than enough +1ing a 1v1, dropping 1 or 2 high damage bursts and leaving the rest to the (in the best case) unharmed teammate while rotating to the next point. It happens surprisingly often in ranked that 2 people spend around 30 to 60 seconds of the time 2v1‘ing an opponent, which results in the loss of all the other points when 1 person would have been enough to get the job done

You know, it‘s now like the name „Thief“ doesn‘t imply it‘s literal playstyle of stealing points/kills. Decapping and +1‘ing through mobility and spike damage is their actual purpose in PvP, for which they sacrifice the concept of „holding“ points through their squishiness and the mechanic of stealth. Sometimes it is better to stay and defend a capped point instead of rushing to the next one just because it is capped by the enemy. This is why side noders are a thing in the first place

> @"Bazsi.2734" said:

> @"snoow.1694" Just sayin, posting chatlogs with player character names in them can get you infraction points. I don't mind it personally, but I'm not the one moderating the forums, and it's against the rules so... careful!

>

> Anyway nice to know I have paparazzi following me. Money&Fame!

>

>

Fixed it, just found the match we had funny. We get matched up surprisingly often

> @"Bazsi.2734" said:

> > @"snoow.1694" said:

> > I think the meta is the healthiest it has ever been since Heart of Thorns was released...

>

> ExCusE ME wHAt

Imagine being world famous in Tyria for the top notch forum c0mm3nts you produce lol

They are what keeps this forum alive

I think the meta is the healthiest it has ever been since Heart of Thorns was released and that the move to generally nerf everything was a wise one, but it resulted in some specs being overnerfed into the status of „unplayable“, while other specs (community hate mostly focusses on Holo & Reaper right now) feel like no damage modifiers were touched at all.

Again, the move to nerf was a wise one and no one expects ArenaNet to instantly get it right, as balancing a competitive game is one tough topic - this is why the February Nerf Hammer needs to be followed up by small, logical tweaks to the point where we get vanished specs back on track and adjust the ones that are still broken.

Player frustration, especially in PvP is growing - since we are already 8 months in after the February Patch and not much has happened since then. We had adjustments, but they had not much of an effect since Nade Holo, Lich Reaper, Bunker Renegades, Bunker Tempests and all sorts of breakaway Revenant specs are still going on a rampage in PvP. I hope we will get something in the next weeks or we will probably see HoM go up in flames

Thank you forum moderators!

Warriors are good, there are some specs in PvP that one shot you while having a ton of invuls and sustain

> @"otto.5684" said:

> @"snoow.1694" you cannot make a build around shouts. Core support could utilise shouts. But they are not that strong to be reliable. You are better off just going g the FB route. FB uses honor anyway.

>

> Dps cannot be built with shouts. You will lose on both healing and condi cleanse big time.

>

> As Arken said, only save yourselves is even worth a utility slot.

Well the thing is I have already tested Shout Firebrand in Plat, won 3 games and lost only 1 - they turned out to be more useful than Mantras. Healing through „Receive the Light!“ outperforms „Mantra Of Solace“ and the condition cleanse outperforms „Mantra Of Lore“. „Retreat!“ adds to your sustain by being able to kite effectively (also heals you 2 times for 3-4K in team fights) and as you said „Stand Your Ground“, since it is overall useful.

However, as I said, there isn‘t a single Guardian who is right in his head that would prefer smaller and shorter Symbols for 20% cooldown reduction and **one** condition transformation into a boon, the trade off is simply not going to happen, because „Pure of Voice“ offers too little benefits. And again, I don’t expect Shouts to be better than other possible builds, but I think moving „Pure Of Voice“ to adept tier would certainly make people run them more often. The goal is not to make the next broken Guardian build, but to add underused skills to the skill bar of people

> @"ollbirtan.2915" said:

> I must confess. I've had some nice memes time with core shout soldier rune guard. But a meme is still a meme :(

Just thinking about it reminds me of the times where Battle Of Kyhlo, Forest of Niflhel and Legacy Of Foefire were the only maps available. Imagine there was a time where some boons were considered actual support :#

I miss those times

> @"otto.5684" said:

> I do not think that will enough. If we are going support path, FB is better, due to tomes. There is no competition. If we are going damage, using honor is so much weaker than valor. In sPvP mediations >>>>>> shouts. Not only they provide better healing (so much better). They also provide so much better cleansing.

>

> Currently, only shout even worth putting on your utility bar is Save Yourselves. And even that is questionable. Retreat is weak. Hold the line is garbage. Receive the light is meh if you are support and unuseable for dps. Again here for dps, LoW >>>>>>>>>>> receive the light. I do not think I would ever consider FmW over RI. It is tempting, but you give up so much survivability. Lastly, stand your ground. This was the shout. That is of course before its CD increased by 50%. Not useable with 45 secs CD.

>

> You have to rework retreat, hold the line and receive the light. Full rework, not reduce CD or charges bull kitten. Save yourselves and stand your ground need reduced CD. Honor needs some tweaks. Pure of Heart needs rework.

>

Shouts aren't as bad as many people believe

**"Receive The Light!"**: Solid 7k heal for yourself and around 5k for team mates on Menders amulet

**"Stand Your Ground!"**: I mean we all know this is the most important shout, Stability & Retaliation

**"Retreat!"**: Double charge Aegis & Swiftness, works incredibly with the "Pure Of Heart", "Shattered Aegis" or "Rune Of Speed"

**"Save Yourselves!"**: Condi Cleanse for all your team mates, works only good with a strong condition cleanse right after, I admit that

and all can be paired with Rune Of Soldier to cleanse 1 extra condition from all allies. They really aren't that bad, the only problem is that they have unbelievably long cooldowns for little & one sided return (some boons). Making a trait that simply isn't worth of being called a grandmaster trait in "Pure Of Voice" an adept trait would instantly make shouts more attractive. Don't misunderstand me, I don't think that Shout Guardians will start to outperform other possible specs, since shouts offer as stated far too little reward, but at least it would make shouts somewhat viable to play. It would be worth a try and the nostalgia infused hype would be unreal lol

> @"Kondor.2904" said:

> Unranked uses the same system as ranked, the only difference is that unranked starts expanding the mmr search bracket after 2 mins in the q, while ranked does after 5 mins.

Is that true?

Couldn‘t have described it better, Reaper needs a huge damage modifier, sustain and chill duration nerf. It is tearing everything down at the moment. Also fighting against 2 Reapers is pretty much a gg for the enemies

Last week I was pretty ungrateful when I saw the 8th Birthday Gifts. Today I received the infusion and got to say it is absolutely beautiful. You can't but feel special to wear an item new players will receive in several years and it looks so clean.

It only would be cooler if you could finally show off Infusions in HoM, despite being a PvP area, but I am sure that will be added in the future as well!

Thank you ArenaNet for a pretty cool present!

During your solo queues which classes are usually the first target you call right before the first team fight happens and which one‘s you like to not engage with until all others are down?

For me the most wanted target is before all the Necromancer and it‘s Elite Specs, since taking it out often results in a huge DPS cut for the enemy team. Warriors and Revenants are my least favorite targets, because of invuls that can outlast spikes and put alot of offensive capabilities of your team on cooldown

What about you?

I think Tempest has a few ways of breaking the meta at the moment and by far the worst one is that obnoxious Shock Aura spam. People are complaining left and right about the stun fest sPvP has become and Shock Aura for the team is what does it‘s best to make it even worse

> @"Tayga.3192" said:

> It already has hidden mmr, tested on 4 accounts + my main.

I don‘t know it for sure, but my experience has shown me it doesn‘t have an effective mmr. I mostly place plat. When I decide to test some new builds and enter unranked it occurred more than enough times that I got people who didn‘t even own the expansions in the same games where I played against Goku and Zan. Also you can literally feel the difference in skill when comparing what you see in plat to what you see in unranked. It‘s a whole different world. If an effective hidden mmr for unranked was a thing there would be no such felt difference in skill. A **working** hidden mmr would definitely decrease frustration among players, but would probably at the same time make us wait longer in q for the right match up

The thing is, it was a good choice to nerf Firebrand, but I feel like they took it a little bit too far with Mantra Of Solace, since all the other modifiers going down hit mostly the support Firebrands used to provide to others, but going as far as not being able to sustain yourself effectively as well as not being very mobile results in what we have now. I mean, they could even keep the heal provided for others down, but at least let us heal ourselves by the proper pre nerf amount **for our heal skill only** since everything else was toned down.

Another option would be to make „Pure of Voice“ an adept Honor trait, because no one at the moment would give up the master trait „Pure of Heart“ or the grandmaster trait „Writ of Persistence“. It would enable Shout Support Guardian to evolve, since pure Shout Guard Specs are at this moment irrelevant and it would maybe make for a good solution. In that case we would have another option by using the for the most part unplayed shout heal skill „Receive the Light“ when we want to play a supporter and no pre patch Mantra Of Solace would be needed. ArenaNet just recently buffed the shout „Retreat“, so I believe they would also want to see Guardians utilize shouts a little more often and that could go well along with it

With the recent 2 charge buff for „Retreat“ and an overall good heal skill in „Receive the Light“ a viable 100% Shout Guardian spec might have great potential to return to the sPvP meta. However there is one issue making that close to impossible, running the Honor Grandmaster Trait „Pure of Voice“ (Shout Trait) is a bad choice to take for any Guardian spec compared to the viability „Writ of Persistence“ (Symbol Trait) offers in a team fight through our symbols. It alone enables many Guardian builds at the moment.

So I wanted to ask if it might be possible to switch the places of „Pure of Voice“ with „Protective Reviver“ since it would instantly revive the old shout Guardian spec that was pretty much the first ever Core Guardian meta build right after release, right before Meditation Guardian became a thing. I think it might maybe be worth a try since it is basically the nerfed version of what it used to be. 20% cooldown reduction for shouts as well as 1 condition conversion without Rune of Soldier isn‘t too much of an effect considering the AoE condition removal effects that by now entered the game since release and the generally high cooldown of shout skills. I would love to see Shout Only Guardians rejoin the Meta :)

> @"jwhite.7012" said:

> > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > @"jwhite.7012" said:

> > > > I suggest that you do a raid training and see just how long it takes a group of new players to beat a boss.

> > >

> > > And don't be snide. I've already stated that I simply do not enjoy raiding in GW2. I've tried it, multiple times. I simply do not enjoy it. Can i do it? Yes, and I have.

> >

> > It was not meant as being snide. It just seems that you have little personal experience in this matter and you’re saying things that don’t make sense. If you did raid trainings, or possibly started to raid in a effort to obtain your first set, you would see how things truly are for a new player starting out raids. There’s obviously nothing I, nor anyone else, can really say to convince you otherwise so that’s why personal experience would hopefully get you to come around.

>

> Do you WvW for 18+ hours /week?

> Do you play 200+ games in pvp every season?

> I've already said I'm in the Raid training group, I've ran multiple raids (up to w4) with my old guild. It took us a week to learn up to w4. That was 12 of us with 2 alternates. 2 hours every night. I just didn't enjoy them. Just as some have suggested that I half-afk sPvP or flip a camp every 10 minutes- it's just not an enjoyable experience. I have respecced my ascended gear upwards of 20+ times, and honestly its just annoying at this point to have to go out and refarm up my spirit shards every time a WvW meta changes. I've crafted 7 sets, 2 legendaries, and have an entire bank filled with ascended weapons. All I want is the functionality of the legendary armor for WvW so swapping and adjusting are "reasonable".

>

> You've neglected valid points, and your final solution is "go raid train some more". Yea, your twisted mentality is specifically why I do not enjoy raiding in GW2.

Exactly my point, that‘s why they should for the love of god finally make legendary armor and trinkets not account bound and make it possible to sell them via the TP. Some people simply don‘t have the connection or PC to play WvW, don‘t want to spend their 2 hours to play the game each day mindlessly attacking NPC‘s in raids or get frustrated by time limitations and the toxicity in PvP.

It would offer so many possibolities, people could farm one half of their armor/trinkets and maybe buy the other half. That for example would cut the frustrating part instantly in half, but we got a big faction of elitist (PvE) players that come towards people who suggest ideas like that with vulgarity for not wanting to spend their days doing stuff they don‘t enjoy or wanting to stay in their game mode. And it is strangely always the raid players, I assume because they want to keep feeling special fighting a NPC 125 times

I disagree, some stuff just doesn‘t make any sense - Necros outdamaging Warriors or Elementalists having more defensive capabilities than GUARDians just doesn‘t add up. The only class that strictly seems to maintain it‘s playstyle and the way it is intended to be played is probably Thief - high spike damage, fast in fast out and lurking in the shadows. I wouldn‘t want a strict holy trinity, classes should be still able to play the style they want to, but I feel like ArenaNet should really implement some limitations to the degree some classes break the logical sense of the game.

Also it wouldn‘t add really much strategy to the game except that it would yet again make some specs extremely broken, exactly what ArenaNet wanted to work against with the February balancing

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"snoow.1694" said:

> > > @"mindcircus.1506" said:

> > > There's nothing more indicative of just how far out of touch with reality these forums are than a thread with Firebrands arguing for buffs.

> >

> > I think this coming from a Shock Aura & Invul & Heal spamming class like Tempest is borderline insane.

>

> It doesn't matter where it comes from ... it's still true. If people think FB needs buffs, they need to L2P in a hard way.

>

Sorry, I just looked up your name on the leaderboard and it is rude and beyond cocky to tell people „L2P“ when you aren‘t even ranked in sPvP for this and weren’t ranked the last season. Also L2P is the argument people use who have literally no arguments

> @"mindcircus.1506" said:

> There's nothing more indicative of just how far out of touch with reality these forums are than a thread with Firebrands arguing for buffs.

I think this coming from a Shock Aura & Invul & Heal spamming class like Tempest is borderline insane. Sincerely hope they nerf „Wash the Pain away“ as well as your F2 heal, invul durations, Glyph of Renewal and the obnoxious Aura and Boon spam (Prot for example), that is ruining the game, into oblivion, because at the moment it is Tempest that is beyond destructive to the meta, then I will stop asking for what you call „Firebrand buffs“ when I literally said to keep everything as it is and just give our heal skill back, for the reason that it is a Mantra with 2,75 seconds cast time and is in conjunction with „Pure of Heart“ necessary to run as Firebrand to simply sustain yourself especially considering that I want the rest of the heal modifiers to stay nerfed on the spec.

Being Top 35 on the European ladder and asking for the return of ONE skill that would be required to play the spec as it is intended to, is what you call „out of touch“.

How about you play 10 ranked games as a Firebrand with Solace and post your results as screenshot below? I know what would happen. I played the first 2 days of the season as Core Guardian on Menders amulet, even one game with Floody and Adelante, one with Boyce and literally watched Firebrands get farmed in 3 seconds while I had no problems sustaining myself with Meditations such as Litany of Wrath


Sure my man, I rather think that you should start playing PvP before making such assumptions, since picking Firebrand „daily“ over Core Guard in this enviroment isn’t really much speaking in favour of you. Also no, posting screenshots of a few top Firebrands won’t make the spec more viable for casual players, plus then how about we compare the results of teams who ran Tempest with teams who ran Firebrand during the last AT‘s? How viable would Firebrand look then to you? What is even more funny is that MightyTeapot says the exact same thing about Firebrand, literally where you got your screenshots from.

Facts still stand - if you run Firebrand, you have your heal skill up once or twice at max during a teamfight and get pretty much farmed right after, since mobility on Guard is at 0, which makes effective kiting more problematic.

Also I am not saying the Solace nerf happened in February, I am talking about ArenaNet’s agenda to bring all modifiers down, which started by February and I welcome. I just want our old healing skill back.

I think constantly placing plat or better is enough for me to be able to talk about a weakness of the spec, alot of casual players maybe don’t see, such as this issue of basically having one bad heal through the game mechanic that Mantras come with