Dagger.2035

I can only discuss pugging in zergs since I don’t roam with either of these professions.

I think Scourge and Herald have similar sustain and mobility if you are playing the meta builds. Scourge has more frequent low damage attacks. This makes it more immune to aegis, but it requires more time and patience to setup a good burst. It’s ground targeted skills are more versatile and handle vertical terrain so it’s better in both structure fights and ranged fights. Scourge provides your group with corrupts and barrier.

Herald has less frequent higher damage attacks. This makes it better at producing downs but it is more susceptible to aegis. The Coalescence of Ruin nerfs wrecked the skill so it’s damage gets negated on walls and vertical terrain. This weakness isn’t an issue in melee since Vengeful Hammers and sword provide excellent damage. Herald provides your team with boons (fury, might, stability, etc) and damage reduction.

I think my first memory was of defending Durios from with the old 1200 range cluster bomb.

I think the main reason why it has less people is that it is more difficult to find fights. It will always be the last choice for this reason since fights can be more easily be found on the other maps. The same is true for FPS games. Smaller maps feel more intense since you can quickly get back into the action. It has nothing to do with the quality of the map.

This map had many more problems on release and the original complains were valid and not from an unwillingness to learn a new map. Unfortunately many of the flaws originated from community suggestions.

* **Multiple Paths:** Multiple hidden paths were supposed to allow small groups to move around the map and counter zergs, but this just makes it more difficult to find fights and makes the map feel empty when it isn't.

* **3-Way Waypoints:** The waypoints were changed so each color could only waypoint one of the keeps. This was probably added to promote three way fights and address complains that an enemy can waypoint all of the keeps in a home borderlands. This is another change that made the map feel bigger than it actually was since it made it more difficult to respond to white swords.

* **Large Keeps & Marked:** Larger keeps were added to provide more room for zerg vs zerg fights inside an objective. This also removes double cata walls which makes it more difficult for a large zerg to quickly flip objectives in a map. Marked was also added so zergs didnt' have to spend time sweeping an objective. I feel like the marked mechanic was a mistake since that was a fun aspect of roaming. Hiding in an objective hoping no one would find you so you could solo the lord and take it back. This wasn't a problem back then, but now mark could only be removed if you also remove the thief portal or reduce stealth.

* **Auto Upgrades:** People wanted the ability to zerg and not be responsible for scouting and upgrading objectives. There was also problems with trolls triggering upgrades to waste supply before an attack. I feel this is another bad change. It diminishes roaming and removes strategic play and benefits zergs.

* **Guild Upgrades:** The guild upgrades hurt roaming since roamers no longer had access to the +5 supply bonus.

* **Tower Importance:** A post suggested that towers should do more to help control a map since they could be bypassed. They added tower walls which made it more difficult to navigate the map. The dumb thing about the implementation is that the walls only impacted roamers since zergs could easily destroy section of the wall. It doesn't make sense to deter roaming and push people towards zerging.

* **Tower Placement:** There were many complaints about the top corners of the alpine borderlands. I also believe that there were posts that objectives shouldn't be able to threaten neighboring objectives with trebs.

* **Enhanced PvE Lords:** There were suggestions that there should be minimum player limits to capture objectives and that keeps should be group content. This gave us enhanced lords which do nothing but interfere with PvP fights.

* **Laser Event:** The laser event was way too frequent. You would be in the middle of something and would have to constantly go back to the center of the map. It was supposed to be roamer friendly but could be easily done more quickly with a zerg.

* **Map View:** The map still looks awful. It's like someone with only MS paint skills dropped in the new bitmap.

* **Vertical Terrain:** No one asked for this.

This bug has been an issue for years. It seems to be linked to gliding and mounts after being pulled or knocked down. The only fix is to switch maps an that’s not always a viable option.

I’ve started playing revenant again after a year break from it and keep running into this issue. It happens every I switch templates.

It's also not fair to compare minstrel to wanderer's. If you are playing a dps build you should mainly be running berserker or maurader's and then mix in defensive stats as needed. A full PVT build is usually considered a starter build for new players.

> @"kamikharzeeh.8016" said:

> says the guy with the thief icon, brb laughing 20 hours.

It’s just an icon. I mainly play necro and guardian. I haven’t dedicated much time to thief since pre-HOT.

> @"Wiin Prenite.9652" said:

> Also the argument that dps has less sustain then a support is null and void as soon as you bring scrapper, reaper/scourge, thief and dgh into the mix i won't go in depth unless people actually need the reasoning

Sure please explain your point of view.

I'm not saying support doesn't contribute. I just don't think this is a major issue in WvW. If you want more bags play dps. It's also a complete joke to suggest support doesn't have more sustain than a dps build.

> @"Veprovina.4876" said:

> How is being a healer or support low risk, lol? You're exactly where everyone else is, often right in the middle of enemy AOEs.

> The only difference between DPS and support are that support don't tag enemies as much. But everyone is taking the same chances when in fights.

It should be obvious. Defensive stats, stability, stunbreaks, condition clears. A dps build has to sacrifice these things for damage.

I don't see an issue with the current system. Low risk = low reward.

I have 7 full sets and some leftovers from abandoned ideas.

* Light

* Berserker

* Grieving

* Valkyrie/Berserker

* Medium

* Marauder

* Heavy

* Carrion

* Celestial

* Minstrel

I’m crafting a new heavy power set since I can’t bring myself to stat swap my Celestial armor which I no longer use.

Tier 4 NA may be a mess due to a certain server tanking...

I’m sure the other players were just playing the game normally since they weren’t aware a cleansing competition was going on. Meanwhile you’re going all out on cleanses to prove a point.

My problem with the video is that it doesn't prove that a ranger is good at zerging since it is only 14 vs 14. The damage is mediocre compared to what other professions can do from range. If you want to see decent melee damage you should look at what a good Reaper or Berserker can do.

I also wouldn’t play to their build’s strengths. If it isn’t a good matchup for you just move away from them when they stealth. Hopefully they will waste ports trying to follow you. Also, find a tree, pillar, or rock that you can hug to make it difficult to attack you from range.

I feel like my points are being ignored as well. I think we will just have to agree that we disagree.

I believe Rangers are viable but I don’t see how people can claim they are optimal. WvW is over saturated with people playing Ranger so the best advice is to try out another profession. The scenario I provided happens all of the time in WvW to a varying degree. In the scenarios provided to argue for Rangers, the Ranger can be simply replaced with an arrow cart or ballista.

I agree with what you (OP) are asking for, but I don’t think it will happen. It seems as though PVE comes first when a new elite specialization is designed. WVW is also an afterthought.

I think the difficulty with having this discussion is the distinction between viable and meta. No one is saying that a Ranger or Thief can’t be successful in a zerg fight or have the best DPS. They just aren’t as effective or consistent as other professions.

For example, imagine the worst case scenario. A fight with 50 vs 50 who are currently pirate shipping through a choke point. Due to the number of players there is a lot of AOE. The choke point prevents you from attacking edges to get closer. Projectile hate blocks or reflects most of your ranged attacks. A thief won’t be able to do much in this situation. A Ranger is limited to using Barrage and Druid staff attacks. This is why Elementalists, Necromancers, and Revenants are usually better damage options.

Do you put yourself at a disadvantage by playing a Ranger or Thief in a zerg? Yes. Do you put your entire team at a disadvantage by running these professions in a zerg? Yes. This doesn’t mean that they can’t be played. I just want to emphasize that they aren’t the optimal choice.

I get where you are coming from. I used to main thief and it was the only profession I would play in WvW for the first 2-3 years of this game. Back in the day with broken skills and no meta you could play anything you wanted. I did mess around with a hammer warrior and staff Elementalist, but I was stubborn and would mainly play thief.

It wasn't until the HOT expansion that I seriously starting playing other professions. I setup a Revenant, Reaper, and later a Dragonhunter with ascended armor. After seeing how effective those professions were I could no longer play thief in zergs. You just feel outgunned and risk being a bag with all of the random AOE damage. Now that we have templates I'm mainly playing as my (Burn Guard/Minstrel Firebrand) or my (Hybrid Scourge/Power Reaper). The templates allow you to pick the best build for your current situation.

I just want to encourage you to try other professions. It's fun trying out new builds and once you have several professions setup you are more resilient to nerfs or shifts in the meta. It also allows you to use the right tool for the right job. For example, nothing compares to a staff Elementalist when you are outnumbered and defending a keep.

I also honestly don't think there is any way to make Thief or Ranger meta. If you are stuck on those professions, then your only options would be to try the staff Daredevil and immobilize Soulbeast from metabattle.

.

I’m hoping staff won’t be reworked since it has an identity and sees use in WvW. If a rework must happen less is more in my opinion. This reduces the chance the weapon ends up in a worse state.

I like the idea of only adjusting the auto attack to do more damage in instanced PVE. I’m guessing the damage is currently low because skill 1 pierces and can hit up to five targets. I like the idea above of adding bleeding to the auto attack. Then piercing can be removed since it will have higher single target damage.

Vitality should be thought of as the primary defensive stat and it provides the best defense against both Power and Condition damage. Toughness and Healing Power should be considered minor defensive stats which give you more sustain over time.

If someone chooses to run high Toughness to have an advantage against Power builds then they should be weaker against Condition damage.

If we are going to refactor anything I wish they would have changed how condition damage stacks work. A long time ago some suggested that all condition stacks should do the same damage and Condition damage just increases the amount of stacks applied.

This change serves two purposes. First, it simplifies damage calculations on the server since you don’t need the enemy player’s stats to calculate the damage. Second, it allows you to see how much damage you will receive since high Condition damage builds will apply more stacks.

It should be easy to clear camps as S/D if you use short bow. Don't use your sword until there are 3 targets or less and no Veteran Scouts remaining. Blinds affect S/D too much but it has no effect on Cluster Bomb. You want to spam Cluster Bomb shotgun style so it explodes right on top of you.

You just need to use line of sight to pull all of the enemies behind a pillar. Drop a poison field, then start spamming your dodges and Cluster Bomb. If you need to, you may use Dagger Storm to get a break and recover some initiative mid way through the capture. Try to use Dagger Storm after you put down a poison field, then stay on top of it. After Dagger Storm, you drop another poison field and rinse and repeat. For faster camp capture's try and interrupt the lord's heal. It should happen once you've killed most of the other NPCs.

It may make sense to start out using Critical Strikes and Invigorating Precision until you get used to camp captures. The heals from your critical hits should make camp captures trivial.

I would recommend the Burn Guardian from Metabattle. It's a backline build which tries to hit enemies frequently to trigger Virtue of Justice's passive effect. Since it's a condition build you aren't impacted by using exotic weapons with a lower weapon strength.

https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Guardian_-_Burn_Guard

Here's an example of a build you can create with exotic armor. This build uses carrion which provides some power damage, but you can use dire if you need more toughness. I also switched Wall of Reflection out for Merciful Intervention. The meta build doesn't have any mobility and Merciful Intervention provides a nice teleport if you get out of position. Just spam Sword of Justice and Symbols from range to generate a lot of burn stacks.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PWwAYt/lFwQYhsO2IO+KZrNA-zVIYbU/PG5S16VljPSQsHeLJ8DA-w