Rodzynald.5897

> @"Saint Sated.2698" said:

> > @"Rodzynald.5897" said:

> > > @"Saint Sated.2698" said:

> > > Balance and choice seem lackluster compared to gw1. Leaving the game the way it is for longer might actually help them avoid what happened to Riot, where continuous updates and balancing was done just to shake the meta and keep things fresh for the players, but also comes with a lot frustration for players because they're constantly having to adapt. Anet seems very aware of this and in order to maintain longevity probably don't mind slowly releasing patches that are actually _meaningful_.

> >

> > I would believe it if the changes they made with every patch were reflecting that "meaningful" aspect you speak of.

>

> in order to maintain longevity probably don't mind slowly releasing patches that are actually _meaningful_.

>

> _slowly_ releasing patches that are _meaningful_

But they are not meaningful, it's just passing on the OP crown to something else, or just shifting the meta for better or worse (in this case better is actually not that good, knowing what once was before HoT). They only rotate between percentage and number changes, while it is the mechanics and core issues that should be looked upon.

Not to mention constant power creeping, that sometimes is dwindled by a handful of nerfs, but still remains power creeped. Is this meaningful?

But reports do not work, even if one gets reported many times by various players, as long as they are not cheating with 3rd party programs, nothing will be done about it.

> @"Saint Sated.2698" said:

> Balance and choice seem lackluster compared to gw1. Leaving the game the way it is for longer might actually help them avoid what happened to Riot, where continuous updates and balancing was done just to shake the meta and keep things fresh for the players, but also comes with a lot frustration for players because they're constantly having to adapt. Anet seems very aware of this and in order to maintain longevity probably don't mind slowly releasing patches that are actually _meaningful_.

I would believe it if the changes they made with every patch were reflecting that "meaningful" aspect you speak of.

> @"Fanta.8049" said:

> To be honest just delete the pvp mode since anet cant really balance their *strong language* after all these years lol . Too busy making skin for gem store.

Normally I would take it as a joke, but at this point, if they want a PvE game, then just end this joke of a game mode and let GW2 by pure PvE, so that we don't have to feel the same disappointment every single so called "balance" patch.

> @"Brother.1504" said:

> Don’t hate mirage. The concept is interesting. They are just over tuned for player vs player. Nothing fun about being one shot from stealth.

For PvE that is. I firmly believe that mirage's concept at its core would end up in a trash bin in any to other MMORPG that has a bit of respect to the PvP game mode, or at least faced serious drawbacks and sacrifices to some aspects of their performance to keep it high skill cap.

> @"Eddbopkins.2630" said:

> For me the biggest gripe with mesmer is confusion and all the de-targeting skills they have wheather its traits or just going invis they have to much detargeting utilities at there disposal and having clones that are targetable is a big disadvantage for any class specially my main fa weaver that requires a target for any thing worthwile doing. For a class to be so bursty then having the inability to target them fast enough and do your burst befor they get detargeted again is a very very strong mechanic.

> Now confusion needs to have an icd so that it doesnt tick 3 times in 1/2 a second with 15+ stacks its doing 3.5k ticks when i use a skill. I only have 12k hp. So lets say i 10 stacks on me i switch to air, b.c of static discharge it will tick, when i use cleansing fire it will tick again because cleansing fire does damage befor it clears, but then the mes going invis again and puts 15+ stacks of confusion on me i switch to air again to get off a burst but wait i cant attack actually cuz im dead from confusion ticking me for absurd amounts when im just trying to clear or keep my distance with superspeed.

>

> Mesmer needs to do 1/2 the damage they can do right now. They have access to every kind of utility in the game from stealth to teleports from evade skills to portals from stunbrakes to vigor and dodge from HI burst power damage to HI burst condi damage they can do it ALL!

So in short, mesmer should be a disruptive class, with lots of shenanigan mechanic utilities, but very little damage, not a be-all and end-all.

Warcraft has a pvp mode that requires to move a cart, so payload in a MMO is feasible.

Still, it won't change much as long as Devs refuse to split PvP and PvE balance, I mean REAL PVP BALANCE not some second hand balance from PvE devs. Still, that requires people devoted to actually playing the game mode to experience it in numerous cases, to finally see that PvE class concepts do not work well in terms of quality gameplay and high skillcap performance. How would it look if we had it all gut down so that the spam is no longer? It wouldn't really change the pace of combat, because with current spam you either blow up in seconds or keep at it for as long as the class' mobility and defensive cooldowns allow you. We had the same pace before HoT, a well placed burst could melt you, or you could fight for a long period of time, but it actually required more skill to pull off, and not just spamming/relying on passives/taking advantage of skills abundant in utility, becasue someone knows little to nothing about a well thought out skill concepts. Unless this is how they want it, then I see no sense of any form of ranked/tournaments, or in other words, anything that resembles any form of semi-serious competitivity, because what we have now is a sack of big, stinking pile of you know what.

> @"whoknocks.4935" said:

> The problem is the stupid rotation mirage can pull out.

>

> Every single spec has a sort of sustain rotation to survive, one easy example is spellbreaker, rotating shield5, into full counter, into gs3, into endure pain passive and balanced stance passive, plus endure pain active and again into full counter can maintain a solid defense, but it's possible and easy to counter a spellbreaker especially for a skilled player.

>

> Mirage rotation feels so brainless and "pve style". Seems like a pve rotation applied to pvp in which he can chain 10 freaking evades invuln, stealth while at the same time giving you so much pressure you have to use all your defensive abilities. If the mirage fails the rotation can still disengage in a matter of seconds and reset the fight and not even a thief can chase him fast enough.

>

> It's not as brainless and spammy like scourge, and not easy to play like warrior, but its exactly in the middle.

>

> A low risk high reward spec, and I don't think much time is required to master is and kill better players than you, that's the frustating part.

A faulty design in its core.

At this point I'd try anything but something that would require a different approach and skillset. Perhaps some moving objective like a payload?

I would pretty much change all of them to suit them for PvP gamemode. Just a reminder, elite specs are PvE specs thrown into PvP with only tweaked numbers. Certain shenanigans shouldn't even exist in PvP in the first place.

> @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> Mirage's being able to dodge while CC'd is what makes them so broken. This alone removes basically removes counterplay and negates any reward you'd get from timing your skills well.

>

> Killing a mirage is about applying so much pressure nonstop that maybe, eventually, possibly, they'll start to go down. However, even then they can just sword ambush, portal, blink, or jaunt their way out of a fight while still maintaining enough damage to 1 shot you with either power or condi.

A fine descripton in a nutshell. I am rusty as of late, but I've been dueling some recently on the new arena. I could win against a mirage only when they happened to make a mistake which, even then, was a tough call to exploit. Now it's not really about being OP or not OP but the fact that developers allow the sheer concept of mirage to enter PvP and WvW at all. You cannot hope for a good outcome in a gamemode that has a completely different set of rules than PvE. If Anet ever wanted to at least START going in the right direction, they should consider removing or altering certain mechanics to suit PvP. But I don't expect them to do so, as they have already stated that they will only tweak numbers, but not change mechanics, which is a grave error from the start.

P.S.

Yes, I am aware of the spaghetti coding, thus certain core issues might not be fixed nor altered at all.

The new arena is what made me look at PvP mode with a fresh eye. Perhaps I'll linger there for a little bit longer.

I'd like to see what the true purpsoe of EoTN is, jotun ancient magics and who or what Koda is. Also Blood Legion homelands is a spice I'd flow with as well.

Looks like they didn't deserve their title if they were so easily defeated. There are many unworthy ones in the leaderboard as of now.

Hmmm... and people call hammer guard to be OP or cheesy.

> @"Conscript.3657" said:

> A bad player on a good class is pretty easy to spot and kill

There are bad players who know how to fight well enough with what they roll, but are poor at map rotation (thus bad).

If Anet ever wanted to truly fix PvP, they should reconsider base values and core ideas of game mechanics which they could alter. It may be hard to achieve it due to, as so many times mentioned, complicated coding. PvP should be renovated so that there is more character to each profession that nothing else can copy, and yes, I mean trinity. PvE works fine without it, but if we wish for a gamemode that would be easy to balance AND sensibly balanced, we need to have the trinity and we need to have limits, certain boundaries. GW2 feels like an experiment to me which before HoT went in a very good direction. The long cooldowns, the lack of strong passives, more defined amulets instead of hybrid ones, save for celestial stats(I miss cele ele, it was fun to fight, though an ordeal to defeat sometimes). I remember WoW's power creep, yet Blizzard has seen the issue in time and now it looks reasonable, although not flawless, but it doesn't have to be, for nothing will ever be without a flaw. However, on the other example, ArchAge managed to do it so that it has some reason to it. No class has everything, nothing runs on strong passives, long cooldowns, mana system. It makes a single fight feel more skillful and no player has an incredible edge over the other just because one of them plas something that runs on gimmicks which work in every given situation.(provided they both have the same gearscore). Again, that is because there are unbreakable thresholds to what a class combination can do in given time.

Last but not least, the most painful issue of all that I've seen from the first days I played PvP, but it was still at a reasonable degree. Access to mobility. I believe there is no other game that has classes so mobile and with such a wide arrange of disengage/mobility options. Why do we see most top players, or the ones who roam WvW play thieves, warriors, rangers, mesmers? Yes, there are others, but the ones with the most reliable mobility are the most frequent, most popular. And by all means this is very understandable, it is an universal fact that it is better to avoid, rather than to take a direct hit head on. Most rotations of skilled players include disengaging in combat, in every form (movement) in every game. It is meant to buy time for cooldowns or to force an opponent's cooldowns and kite them. This makes up a big part of combat efficiency, the rest are dodges and well timed attacks. This naturally gives, by default, a huge edge to classes with only mediocre mobility. This is why I believe it is a VERY and I mean VERY bad idea to have mobility skills on weapon sets in the current state of this game. Before HoT it had some sense, why? Because it wasn't that frequent, skills felt impactful, yet scarce. The margin for error had to be considered more frequently. Now they are even more impactful, and you can pretty much spam them to your heart's content.

Now, to sum this pile o' words into a neat pulp. Mobility and disengagement mechanics are not implemented well in this gamemode. No mana, no boundaries, no drawbacks works for PvE, but it does not work in PvP. You may not agree with me, but remember the state of our PvP, and compare it to other MMORPGs' PvP modes. The whole picture will speak for itself.

TL;DR

Game mechanics meant for PvE do not work in PvP as intended if they are scaled too high up with powercreep. On top of that, faulty core concepts of a class, due to powercreep, become too strong to be balanced (with just % and number changes) without breaking a profession into under/overpowered state.

> @"Hoodie.1045" said:

> > @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> > i think the best way to do pvp right now is to play SB/FB/scourge/chrono/condi mirage/any thief build/druid/SoulBeast if you dont want to play any one of these then i hope you enjoy gold 3 cuz you cant advance more than that even if you got to plat 1 you'll drop back to gold 3 very quickly because of

> >

> > Power Creep/Condi Bomb/Bunkers and AFKers

>

> Since they nerfed Druid, I see no reason why they can't nerf Firebrand. The amount of sustain and support that specialization has is insane.

>

> Scourge still has instant cast Shade skills and they need to have long cast times.

>

> Spellbreakers' Full Counter is still an AoE daze and has too much sustain in my opinion.

>

> Chronomancer... at least they nerfed Chronophantasma?

>

> Thieves are fine as long as they're not using condition builds. If they do and you're a power thief, spam Cluster Bomb behind you. For p/p, just LoS them with s/d.

I'll tell you something. Firebrand is actually a good, well made support for current needs. We have to understand why is that so. You would be surprised but as a hammer guard I can reasonably quickly defeat a firebrand 1v1, I couldn't have done the same with a druid. The trick is simple, firebrand has to be strong in healing and defense because they have nothing else to offer. Once you break them, they will die, they cannot escape. Druid until now had not only decent damage, but frequent access to strong healing, stealth, and escape on demand, not to forget stone siggy against power based enemies. A druid could easily kite 2 players at once, disengaging when things turned not in their favour and return back - this, my friend, is a faulty concept of a class at its core. Now firebrand represents a very well balanced case. They won't run away, they won't pull out a gimmick on you. You force them out of tomes and burst them down. If you run berserker or any other kind of build that allows you high power damage, you know what works best? Simple auto attacking. 2.5k -3k Auto attack crits are enough to bite down a firebrand who won't dodge such attacks, forcing them to heal it one way or another. Once you wear them down off their cooldowns, burst them down, because it is possible.

> @"Ario.8964" said:

> It's just because damage has had to be buffed to the point of allowing 1 shots because with all the defense and immunity you rarely get kills under 2 minutes (1v1 or 2v2 scenario) unless you 100-0 someone. If they nerfed all damage, healing, and defensive access in this game you'd see much better and enjoyable gameplay coming from it.

It's easier to break, than it is to fix. Also, remember the spaghetti coding, we are kind of done at this point, never should have introduced new elite specs without PROPER tests. It's a shame though, if we ask and hope for the better, we get a few steps in the right direction and a huge leap backwards every single time. If we lay down our case, Anet won't feel obliged to look at PvP any longer the way it is supposed to work, and it will stay a meme mode for casuals and handful of shenanigan players. If only they understood that skillsets, mechanics based upon, and meant to work on PvE DO NOT APPLY to PvP the same way! If only they saw that and had a way to unravel the spaghetti, that would be an actually a tremendous step forward, but it takes work and time, which apparently isn't what they have in mind for this gamemode anymore, now that is is slaughtered with power creep.

Now that I am sure that this is the right thread, I'll post the same thing I did before!

I would really love to see the dervish hood. It's the only piece of armour that would finally finish my look the way it should be. The same way Braham's lone wolf shoulders, on every weight, that would be most amazing :D

> @"WEXXES.2378" said:

> Maybe CCing someone who is already in stealth should remove stealth. Not apply revealed, just remove stealth. CC is something every class has access to, its dodge-able, it doesn't actively ruin stealth-based classes, and most classes have AoE CCs. Also, these same CC abilities tend to not be on short CDs. Changing how stealth works right now would probably break a lot of things.

And this is what I am afraid of. The core mistakes are rooted too deeply and covered with coding that is hard to understand for developers so it has to stay that way. However, breaking stealth upon crowd control is not too bad. I though about breaking it upon receiving damage, but that would make stealth useless as everyone would carry AoE attacks with them to break it as soon as someone get the boon. CC is sensible I believe.

> @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> How would you combat perma stealth comps?

Stealth in this game has hardly any drawbacks. Yes, it does not last long in a thick of battle, yet the application of said boon is very frequent to some classes which gives more of an edge than they should be allowed to have. There could be a drawback of sorts, perhaps a self reveal debuff for just as long as stealth was applied. For example: 5 seconds of stealth result in 5 seconds of revealed status. And a stealth cap should exist as well, so that no more than, let's say, 10 seconds of stealth can be applied between revealed status. This has to come with a sensible trade-off , of course, like thief's survivability (same with mesmer). But I would rather have a thief who can take a punch and survive it, rather than convenient disengagement tools in any given moment when something goes wrong.

It all comes down to more punishing mistakes, and fewer ways to escape on demand. This would certainly raised the skill cap required to play something without reaching ridiculous levels of one man army at some point. However, stealth and its bad implementation in this game is its own issue. The most bleeding one is overtuned access to mobility.

As long as they change numbers, nothing will change. By nothing I mean that there will be meta shifts from one extremity to the other. They should finally understand (or they do) that throwing stuff into PvE and hoping it will scale and implement itself to different game modes that have require a different type of skillset (as a player) will not work properly. It's not just about balancing numbers, but core issues with things such as overabundance of certain capabilities that were not scaled properly, for example mobility skills that are meant to give an advantage, but they can be used too frequently, creating an endless rinse and repeat kind of situations that would never make the cut in other mmorpgs, there are limits.

This is just a tip of the iceberg that we could dwell upon for months and years but nothing will change because of above mentioned spaghetti coding. At this point it's just crippling mechanics of GW2 that won't change, or GW3 as a hope for something more balanced.

Funny, yesterday in WvW I was talking about druids and rangers overall. It's not only the access to stealth and lack of drawback to it, but the mobility that druid was gifted with. But as much as stealth might be okay-ish, it's the constant mobility with long range that makes it a tad bit too much in most scenarios. It's not that hard to fix it (unless spaghetti coding), but if mobility skills were gut throughout the board, we wouldn't have so much rinse and repeat gameplay where every mistake can be reset on demand THAT frequently. For refernece, just recall/check other mmorpgs and how those handle mobility in their scenarios.

It seems as if the core ideas of elite specs are to blame. It leaves me under impression that they think only about PvE when skills and traits are implemented because it sounds cool and may have some synergies. Certain abilities should never see the daylight in PvP, because they are simply unfitting for such a game mode. No class should have an edge over others just because it has more access to certain tools. There is little rock, paper, scissors. We rather have a few rocks, one paper, half a scissor and perhaps two atom bombs. What would be a good way to fix things, is a power de-creep, but it would tkae too much resources at this point, because for some reason PvP team does not balance PvP, which is a grevious mistake. Besides, PvP dev said that they will not change any class mechanics, so they refuse to fix one of the main problems of the balance itself.

To explain on an example: I can't think of any other game that gives one class an access to so many ways of control over a fight, disenagement options, defensive capabilities on top of dealing tons of damage. I would rather like for mirage to have a normal dodge and a 3-4 second 70% damage reduction after an evaded attack is registered. This might make them formidable, yet not untouchable. However, we cannot tell for sure if that would actually work because devs don't test it on their own the way they are supposed to, nor we have any reliable players who would do it for them. At least I think so based on how it looks like currently, the bad design of many skills, not just mesmer's.