ZeftheWicked.3076

> @"Egorum.9506" said:

> This is stupid because it forces you to run SR, decreasing build viability.

Only change here from current state is that Soul Reaping gets more dps, which is how it should be, since currently Blood Magic of all things is a better choice for **dps** reaper. A support/healing line should not outdps a selfish/damage oriented one!

> Death perception competes with reapers onslaught? Why. Huge dps loss

You seem to misunderstand what Death Perception is and it's role. Depending on scenario it's dps borders on non-existant. Imagine you're going balls to wall dps power necro. Full Zerk gear. You go to a raid - you get fury, and unique buffs from allies to boost your precision. Few more points of precision from infusions + some crit chance from sigil of accuracy and you got 100% crit chance without any help from Death Perception. So what about it's dps? It's **zero**. All your hits are crits anyway, and any crit chance over 100% cap does nothing. Kinda sucks doesn't it? That's why I'm placing Reaper's Onslaught here, to have a **real** damage trait for power builds that already solved their crit issue without this trait.

Death Perception, is much less a dps tool, and more a build enabler tool. Grab it and you can ditch zerk gear in favor let's say Valkyrie or Crusader. Gear with more defense but no precision on it. Also if you're alone and there are no allies to keep your missing crit chance maxed, that is another case when Death Perception makes sense. But in extreme cases as above, it's useless if your goal is to do more damage. One of reasons Blood Magic trumps current Soul Reaping according to Snow Crows' dps benchmark for power reaper.

> Losing protection on leaving shroud? Why. That's when you most need it.

Come again? That's beyond the veil trait - I did not touch that in my rework..

> Just add stab into the core kit and increase power coefficients.

Adding stab into core kit means you're prone to it getting corrupted. If everyone knows exactly which skill stabs you always, they'll know it's time to boon rip/corrupt. Traits let you get stab via different means and only if you yourself so choose. Less predictable.

LOOOL, I can't believe i made such a stupid mistake! I meant **Fear of Death**. It's under Soul reaping changes, i just mistook the names.

Ofc i have no reason to gut a good spite trait, or spite in general - that line is good.

I edited top post to fix this - no wonder ppl were thinking this change is stoopid, silly me!

We have a challenger! I'll take you on then!

> @"KrHome.1920" said:

> Terrible suggestions - especially the soul reaping ones. This doesn't fix anything but nerfs a lot of build variety.

Au contraire, you just failed to see it, but that's ok, i'll spell it out for you nice and slow as we progress.

> Unshakeable fear is redundant on reaper and erasing stability in SR for core just to add another source of it in CS3 is dumb. Core necro needs more stability sources and not shiftings to other skills.

My suggestion gives core necro **ton** of anti-cc he did not have.

* no matter which SR grandmaster you choose, shroud will always stunbreak (nerfed foot in the grave now a minor)

* on demand stab with casts of skill that fear (staff #5, shroud #3, Spectral Wall)

* Reaper's protection offers more stab - you stunbreak (no matter how), you get stab and protection on top.

* Deadly Strength gives passive anti-cc after stunbreaking.

In current meta stab is a double edged sword. In competitive it's easy to have it corrupted by other necros, or stolen by thieves. Bottom line is Foot in the Grave's stunbreak needs to take a divorce from stab. Stunbreak is always good, stab not. Also current "Foot" gives core necro no real choice. The only stab you can get without elite, or be the cc ragdoll.

My proposition gives you on shroud stunbreak always, so you can focus on what you **want** instead of what you **must** take. Want more stab? Death magic awaits. Oh yes you're gonna scream it sucks. Well it won't if it has stab in it. Everyone would love to have stab in spite or something similar, but since cc is necro's bane by design, then the strongest traits that counter that weakness should be in a line that is "costly" to a dps oriented necro. And that line is Death Magic.

Also keep in mind that Death Magic is **very** costly for elites - they already are locked down with one line (the elite spec one) and having Death Magic as 2nd leaves them with room for only one damaging line.

Core necro however does not suffer from this. He can still equip two damage lines in addition to Death Magic (like SR and Spite) and go to town.

This somewhat allevates the "overstab" issue on reaper.

> SoS and foot in the grave combo is super strong on reaper currently. It makes you un-cc-able. Why would you want to change that just for PvE folks?

What is SoS again? It doesn't sounds like chilled to the bone or infusing terror, the two stabs that are Reaper Exclusive. Care to fill me in? Also it's not un-ccable, if you got enemies with boon hate on you and you can't create a thick wall of other boons to cover stab, you are on your way to becoming cc ragdoll in seconds.

> All that crap just to put 10% more damage into the spec.

How little you see....

All that crap to give core necro and scourge reaper's onslaught if anything. Why should they both be deprived of good ferocity boost and attack speed increment? I see no reason such a trait should be reaper-only. Only adjustment i would make is making sure the cooldown reduction on shroud skills is properly kept in check on scourge.

For core necro it would rock hard with his extremely long cooldowns, and life blast not having a chain.

Then there's the 10% damage trait on top for reapers, which will justify using SR for power builds (currently it's outshined by blood magic of all things!) and help them get that 30k mark they need badly.

One new trait. And some moving/changing of others.

##Reaper Specialization, grandmaster (replaces Reaper's Onslaught)

**Reaper's Reach** - Deal 10% more damage to enemies that are within close range (240 units).

##Soul Reaping

**Reaper's Onslaught** - moved to Soul Reaping, replaces Foot in the Grave.

**Foot in the grave** - merged with Last Gasp (master minor). Stability removed, stunbreak on shroud stays.

**Fear of Death** - changed to **Unshakeable fear** - skills (shroud, weapon, utility) that inflict fear also grant you stability (1 stack 3s).

*This is not related to actually fearing an enemy, so corrupting enemy stab for example will not grant you stab. This just means that skills that inflict fears on their own (like staff #5 or Spectral Wall) will grant you stab on cast, no questions asked.

##Death Magic

**Reaper's Protection** - old functionality removed. When you break stun, gain protection (3s) and stability (1 stack, 3s).

**Deadly Strength** - Gain Power Based on a Percentage of Toughness: 15% (always). When you stunbreak, reduce incoming hard cc durations by 40% for next 3s.

**Unholy Sanctuary** - When entering shroud gain 3s immunity to having your self-casted boons removed, corrupted or stolen. Receive same protection again when you yourself exit shroud (that means you pressed F1, to end it). Regenerate health each second, growing over time up to 200% initial value while shrouded.

One trait to fix necro's damage? Yes i can do that. But there's a price - subsequent moving of few other traits. Done like this it'll fix necro and more over aid it in few more areas, all 3 specs.

> @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > @"ZeftheWicked.3076" said:

> > Losing 9/10 is not exactly potential...hell my spvp core necro build does better then that...

> I've enough experience in that game to know how outcomes would change with minor improvements - in this case if he would have had stability. Core necro would be strong if it had a stability source in one of its shroud skills (like reaper has in RS3). Core necro is and has always been too easy to shut down.

>

> This thread is about a shroud rework, which is not nessessary at all in terms of viability. You don't have to like core shroud and its skills. Then the spec is simply not made for you. But you should not confuse unviability with design you don't like. That's not the same!

>

Seems i failed to provide proper context here. This season i'm gold 1 reaper in spvp. But previous seasons i was s3 core power nec using my own bruiser build which i used to duel warriors, thieves guards and other "not for necro" threats. And i still say DS is **shit**. It definitely works great as a meatshield if only because core nec doesn't have reaper's increased life force degen. And that build of mine is a tank on legs. But as you said it yourself - hardcore lack of stab is something core necro can't jump over, he just can't. And reaper is a bad opponent for core nec due to being purely melee and sticking power. So i can understand the 9/10 losses not being that shameful

But DS is failing hard. In your case the issue here is that Death Shroud is too "physical caster". Core nec has only two power mainhands - dagger and axe. Bigger damage being dagger. It's only reasonable that when going shroud he should have tools for both close and ranged combat. He doesn't. CC ragdoll syndrome is in effect, life blast sucks at close rage since it's easy to just run around nec. Life Transfer is easy to interrupt and doesn't do much damage, tainted shackles are control and bit of condi (nowhere near to reaper's chills + spin to win with deathly chill traited).

Shades free scourge from transformation and life force decay issues.

Reaper Shroud has crazy good synergies with it's traitline and it's own skills.

Death Shroud is a relic. Simple adjusting numbers here and there won't address the issue.

Core necro needs **real damage**, proper synergies with his traits (hello useless dhuumfire) and shroud skills themselves, and more verstatile kit that lets him do damage at rage but also not be just a punchbag in melee when shrouded. The first and most significant place this all can be done is Death Shroud itself, since it's the only mechanic elites don't have access to, and can easily help the core necro move along.

Losing 9/10 is not exactly potential...hell my spvp core necro build does better then that...

There are some "nice" changes. Except nice guys finish **last**.

Whole DS needs being scrapped all together and redone from ground up. Other core classes can dish out round 30k dps, maybe bit less but around that number. Anyone knows what core necro can dish out, assuming epi bounces are outta question?

**Reaper shroud has great synergy with traits and itself.** There is a combo field, combo finisher, on demand stab, auto chain that works with dhuumfire, reasonable cooldowns..

Death Shroud has none of it. Except for maybe Doom (insta ranged fear) and Tainted Shackles everything is trash or at least underperforms. Forget about any good synergies either.

**A Core class is a generalist** - elites are supposed to be **specializations** - pushing a certain aspect of gameplay to new heights. Yet core DS is a caster tool, that fails on all ends. Core power necro needs to be competent in melee (dagger), yet shroud does not offer any decent tools for staying in a melee brawl (aoe cleave, stab). Condi core nec is a ranged caster for most part....and once again DS fails by lacking proper **ranged** condi pressure (dhuumfire sucks with life blast, tainted shackles are mid range).

Lastly core necro is **weak af** compared to Reaper and Scourge. There are only two ways to bring it up to standards. One is to employ very intelligent traits that will provide strongest boost on core nec while staying viable for elites. If they got the brains for it, go ahead. I do, but i'm not a-net employee, so i get no say.

Other and much simpler one is **a whole new, powerful DeathShroud**. This is the only piece of core necro elites can't get, and the first place to make changes to improve it, without making the other specs skyrocket.

Current interation of shroud is not even a "part" of core necro, much as it is achilles' heel, the biggest underperformer on already underperforming profession. It needs **radical** changes.

Agree to disagree. You'd prefer stats outta the way in pvp, leaving it up to traits and skills if i understand correctly.

I want stats to power up active defenses, while god-mode defenses curbed, be it via reduced uptime, or change to a different defense type, where it works vs certain things, but is useless against another, and not always a golden solution to all (like evades, blurs, invulnerability and what not).

I won't argue your valid points about necro anti-cc issues and core necro sucking, hell the latter I admit in my first paragraph.

What I am saying is that **design wise** necro's defenses are the best of all 9 professions.

Reason i say this is because they synergize with character attribute system the most of all professions and aren't no brain panic buttons, but skills with specific use cases, strengths, weaknesses and ability to be linked with his other defensive skills for custom, stronger effect.

Most other professions just press a button and wham! Instant solution, that doesn't relate to his attributes, the type of attack that's incoming past the simple "is it cc/condi/direct", nor requires any synergizing with other defenses on a grander scale.

This is extremely **effective** but very dull and shalow from game design perspective.

Necros defenses are engaging, reward critical thinking, building defensive stats, knowledge of enemy attacks, and make you a better player overall.

Other profession's defenses are usually "problem b-gone buttons" where your only concern is how many utility slots must you give up to keep plowing stuff with your full zerk 0 vit/tough/healing build..

#Necro is the one designed proper.

Ok, now that i have your undivided attention ... It's true (except core). And how does this relay to the topic of unbalanced attributes?

Simple - necro is a **paragon** of how defenses in this game should be vs what we got (on other professions).

Necro does not have god-mode defenses, which imho are the issue here. Instead he has a lot of situational, stat-synergetic ones. For example signet of vampirism will restore a certain amount of health when hit - that is it's passive. Putting points into toughness and healing power (along with traiting signets of suffering) makes the power damage you take less, heal you receive more, and now passive works when shrouded too. A huge difference compared to base version achieved with boosting defensive attributes and a trait.

Ofc alone it's shit still. But necro has many other defense layers - none of them ultimate, but by stacking, interchanging and timing them right you can achieve very solid defense matching the situation. Life steals, protection, Rise!, blinds, Corrupter's fervor, Shroud, Barriers, whole phletora of anti-condi tools...all of these aren't one button solutions to everything, but used proper with support from stats can achieve very robust results.

#Other professions?

Push a button, you're invulnerable or nigh invulnerable. 0 damage from direct attacks, 24/7 resistance, evades, conversion of damage to healing.

**There is no stat synergy with these**. It's push & forget, instead of "think what you're pushing against given type of attack, and how it'll roll with your stat build.

Because all these professions have these god-mode defenses, defense stats can't be strong, else it would be impossible to shut them down at all in the tiny windows of vulnerability when they've blown their "can't touch me" defenses and are now down to few moments of just you vs their defense stats.

If that wasn't the case, and defenses on other professions were more like necro's (your active defenses don't hang in void completely unrelated to enemy attack type and your own defense stats) we should enjoy far more balanced game where proper build is equally important (and varied) to proper play of said build.

Guild Wars 2 is a game which succeeded in many areas, while having ABSURD failures in many others (hi 25 condi cap for years after launch, HoT content draught etc, etc etc).

Reason it held up and will hold up are it's **extremely** strong and robust design choices from core game. Things like scaling to map levels, horizontal progression being end-game rather then vertical one, Fashion Wars 2, and also the fashion-based gemstore with currency conversion.

I don't mind whales at all in this game - beause in this game i can share in their wealth (buying gems for my gold), and their wealth is not P2W. I'm not doomed to lose on every turn because they flushed down more cash.

Design choices such as these saved the game from numerous pitfalls throughout it's life and will keep it strong.

Protection on wells is great and very needed. Not everyone wants to have soul reaping in his every build, and without it you lose a LOT of protection uptime (spectral mastery + passive spectral armor). It is important that there is another good source of protection available and that's what vampiric rituals offer. Also let's remember that outta 5 wells, three are defensive (blood well, well of power, well of darkness).

For more damage from wells slot rune of chronomancer for some quickness - there's your damage. And if you're talking raid scenarios where you want to max out damage and all the damage boons are already covered by your group - well...i got another idea how to solve that one, but that's not for this post.

^ large sense of humor detected.

Amount of speed buffs means nothing when they don't stack with eachother. Bottom line necro ain't getting more then 25% passive movement speed that's not a boon (swiftness).

Spectral Walk and Flesh Wurm are both utilities - these are extremely precious slots that usually get occupied by our major survival skills. Flesh Wurm can be considered as such - pop it in a safe place and it is your one button escape outta heat. But spectral? If you cast it midfight, then next cc will stop you dead (keyword) in your tracks. And porting 3 feet back with face still in the ground is hardly "life saving".

Dark Path....someone most likely just used lvl 80 boost, hopped on xpac HP train and never touched core necro. This....**thing** is the single most trashy skill necro has. You'll literally run half it's distance before it finally hits the target, and that's assuming the target was standing still hoping to get hit. If it happens to be an enemy player that you know....is capable of running....you might as well save yourself time casting this thing and just shout threats at him to stop. About same chances of success if you ask me.

Anything that is not hard above 33% movement speed (superspeed, mist form, ancestral grace) is not fit to be an escape tool, because everyone can catch up to it. It's mostly straight up teleports, shadowsteps and leaps that make a profession mobile. And necro drew the short end of the stick. Even his teleports (save sand swell) are simply returns to a previously marked position, which limits the direction or range of teleport (if insta-teleporting via flesh wurm).

Revs equip shiro and they got superspeed on demand and 1200 teleport to an enemy. Swords have some of porting goodness too. And for more traditional approach glint = 100% uptime swiftness for 1 energy upkeep.

Guards have their teleport in mediations and a gs leap. Hell even hammer has a leap. Not cream of the crop, but necro sure can dream about a 1200 range simple teleport, no setting up required...

> @"Lily.1935" said:

> I mean, Chill is the strongest condition there is... Anything that their theme was centered around chill was bound to be really dangerous. Damage on top of the most devastating condition in the game? Well!

>

I can literally be immune to any chills at a snap of my finger with my necro. Hardly the "most dagerous" condi ingame...

> @"MyPuppy.8970" said:

> I'd also really like more chill play for my ele, since we should be the masters of elements, but as stated previously, a condition potentially proc'ing other conditions is not very healthy. I'd be fine with more chill access without having to be hit.

That "health" depends on profession. Necro is notorious for his slow condi buildup, and low amount of condi stacks per skill. Deadly Chill for reapers lets them stack some reasonable bleeds fast if you build for chill application. In hands of another profession, say a ranger, that would be overkill. But for a reaper it's a saving grace that makes condi builds viable.

Reaper - a badass voodoo warrior (al least mine is with his looks) that can mop up armies of enemies face to face, not hiding behind some pussy illusions or teammates hoping he doesn't take a hit. Also far more intelligent (condition manipulation) then typical warrior and guardian meatheads, willing to dive into the forbidden (resurrection & minions) to get the job done. Both traits your typical front lining meatheads lack.

Also after all the ragdoll cc abuse my core necro got, reaper was a wet dream come true, when i could finally grab a badass greatsword and take the fight to them...all of them...at once!

Scourge - I don't have scourge fantasies like i had with reaper. But i see him a damn good support (barriers) and almost the necro healer i always wanted. Also huge tank potential with access to all his lifesteal all the time (no shroud blocking weapon skill and utils) and barriers keeping him relatively safe.

Core necro **in dire straights since 2012...**

Life Blast damage **sucks hard**.

One famine stack of stab outside lich form...at expanse of death perception...

Dhuumfire useless for core nec, cause life blast takes forever to fire...

Condi weapons are a joke (no damage staff and super slow scepter)...

Deathshroud is the most garbage set of skills i've seen on a profession

Deathshroud (again..) has no synergy with anything.

Compared to both elite specs - sustain is a **joke**, damage is a **joke**, party utility is a **joke**.. lotsa laughs to be sure...

Poor builds - no matter what you build you will be severely crippled in one crucial area, something elite specs can mitigate much better.

Legendary "necro mobility". Deathshroud #2 is stuff of legends, whispered only by bravest of necromancers when no one is looking...

Only core profession that does not have any build that's close to 30k dps mark. Hell if I know if it can even get near 20k....

Open world Reaper rocks hard. Spectral Grasp + recently buffed gs skills (#3) + reaper shroud (#4) and you're cleaning the house hard and fast. Obscene amounts of free crit + build in solid defenses (infuse terror, Rise!, Blighter's Boon) mean you can pick a lot of less standard gear stats and still kick some major ass (stuff like Valkyrie, Crusader, Cavalier, Marauder etc gear).

Generally he has best access to free stats of all necro specs and that means a lot of builds paths. Can tank, can clear big mobs fast, can solo boss (to a reasonable degree, some things you just can't take on as a necro).

Also while not as good as scourge at it, he is still an awesome reviver, that can save a lot of lives in open world boss events, and his raid top dps build includes blood magic line, which is the one providing this functionality.

1. Mallyx - he does not exist in competitve modes due to inability to stick to his targets and extremely high energy costs on skills that do damage.

2. Kalla - obvious one - solo he's screwed.

3. Glint - i feel herald should have more global facets (like f2) and something new put into utility slots

4. Jalis - not too good in 1v1's.

5. Ventari - short on buffs there, chief. Also larger radiuos of his skills would be nice

6. Shiro - He's fine for most part.

Necro! Green + black if my fav color combo, and slapped on top of life-draining, horror summoning, plague spreading and terror inducing class is just plain win no matter how you slice it!

> @"Deadvillager.1956" said:

> I hate Death perception. A small baseline precision buff while in shroud would make much more sense IMO. Instead, give us a stacking power or ferocity buff on shroud attacks that slowly depletes when out of shroud.

Death perception is very important trait. It allows necro to ditch full zerk gear in favor of tankier sets like valkyrie, cavalier, crusader etc. As we don't have godmode defenses like evasion spams, invulnies or 0 damage stances, free stats are crucial to pick up tankier gear sets and still do respectable damage.

So i respectuflly disagree since death perception is equal to 1050 points of precision when shrouded and that's no small thing.

Hello fellow ranked players. Today i will probably discuss a-net's biggest blunder in spvp up to date, that makes even current horrid balance seem like a good design choice.

That is:

#Zero reason to care about getting better.

You see, there are two kinds of ppl that play ranked games.

* Those who play for rank

* Those who play for rewards.

**Rankers**. Well there are few dellusional souls chasing that legendary rank, getting better, getting organized team and what not....failing to realise the futility of their endevours.

This is not LoL. It's not balanced. It does not have e-sport scene. It does not have a really powerful twitch scene. Millions of ppl may play GW2, but that does not translate to millions of pvp'ers that are interested in real competitive matches.

The meta is stale, boring and honestly - more rotting and decayed then core necromancer design. No one is jumping in anticipation awaiting to see these "pros" play, since it's usually the same shit. And even if it's not the same it **feels** the same. Anyone even spectating these games nowadays?

**Farmers** That would be me among many. If you realize rank means nearly nothing, then you're in it for gold. And that does not relate to skill at all. No matter what skill level you are, you will be placed by the system at 50% win ratio eventually. So why try, when the win/loss ratio will stay the same? Only two exceptions to the rule are when you're **the** worst and game can't find bad enough opponents for you, which is a fail. Other is the opposite - your'e the best can game can't find enemies to match. Fail again, as i can guess leges don't get games as often as let's say silvers, due to low high elo population.

Rank does not translate into pip gains or reward track progress. Win a game at plat - it's the same loot-wise as winning a bronze one. I dare say it's actually worse, because in bronze you can try a lot of fun, offmeta builds due to enemies being bad and not punishing you mercilessly for it. Low ranks are where game doesn't reek as bad of dead corpse because meta means much less here.

#Conclusion

With 9 professionis and 18 elite specializations on top, becoming better is a **lot of work** for hardly any rewards.

Bragging rights are almost nil in stale, unbalanced meta that lacks excitement and fan following.

Farming doesn't need rank for anything.

Only automated tourneys can be a good gold farm for high elos...but you can see the population there (hint: it's not big).

It's a boring skill for PvE, but far from poor design. Maximum damage output (outside reaper shroud) that hits in a circle and is spammable is very useful, just boring.

In pvp situations the gravedigger's purpose is clear - cleave the downed and would-be ressurectors, since normal stomp takes time and does nothing vs anyone else then the downed target.

As Krypto said - **gravedigger** is named so for a good reason - it's meant to send downed players to their graves along with anyone who dares try to revive then when in range of your spin of doom.

I think a small tweak like adding a major boost to gravedigger's power when used on <50% targets, but cutting cooldown only by 50% not a full refund, would be aswesome. At the same time keeping the full refund and regular damage vs downed. In PvE not many enemies get the downed state, and less so bosses (which are the main subjects of balancing). That way both sides get theirs without even having to do game mode splits.

Never liked scourge so the more they nerf it, the better for me in spvp. I'm running power reaper in both PvE and sPvP and it's better then ever!