Chips.7968

Lets be honest, after playing it for years - WvW is a fun game mode even when the balance is not to everyone's taste. Just... don't take it too seriously eh?

So a video ridiculing the usual pulls, wvw behaviours, the derps (especially mine), scenarios, balances, bugs, AND a flying player or two :)

The music is supposed to reflect the quick cut/montage action and silliness of the gameplay.

Thoughts, feedback, suggestions and observations (both positive and negative) are welcome.

and no... I never take games seriously. Also, I'm a terrible thief.

> @"XerMeLL.6042" said:

> then when he is about 10% he VANISHED (i lost my target) and after 2 sec i saw him on the bridge near sentry then he seems to blink again(he vanished) and I thought somebody else was attacking me but he is that Asuran Warrior. No one is with us during that time.

That does sound just like someone teleporting around alright. They do exist, someone put a video of (was it a condi rev) in SM doing it when in down state so could safely self res and then teleport back to fight.

> @"XerMeLL.6042" said:

> The warrior i fought 1v1 is in the Panglos Camp and we are dueling alone, then when he is about to die he stealth and i saw him on the bridge. and no i didn't lag. he vanished again came back to me like a thief. and no we dont have anyone with us.

This isn't to say what you are saying isn't true, but here's an example of the Norn elite snow leopard being used which could explain it as an alternative?

At the time I didn't *notice* this so it was unexpected (about 10-15s in is where you see the ele, and then it change). However, I have had warriors use it occasionally in the past - both to escape and to attack.

Could this explain what you've seen?

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Become_the_Snow_Leopard

(using 5 then maybe 4, so prowl then maybe dash to run in your case. In this case I think 5 for stealth then straight out of the form to channel + teleport the churning earth that hits for 12k - giving a very sizeable stealth opener. They've obviously practiced this a fair amount and enjoy it).

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> the fact that thief could kitten up their get away tool and still get away is the reason this nerf is in place, if I kitten up my blink I die as it should be, and hopefully thief will die on kitten ups one day

Is blink a utility or weapon skill? Shadow step is a utility skill with 50s cooldown vs 35s is it? Both are stun breaks. Are you trying to say if they fail their shadowstep they can still switch to short bow and IA away, or were you comparing a utility stun break teleport with a weapon skill.

No, because last time we got desert map - its obnoxious terrain and mechanics indicate they have little understanding of the attraction wvw had. Literally everything people enjoyed was made less enjoyable with that monstrosity. To *me* this has generated the fear that another attempt will get it equally as wrong; they'll then double down, resulting in another segment of the player base giving up.

But that's just my opinion :D Not actually adverse whatsoever to changes in principle, just history has shown you should be :dizzy:

> @"Al Masone.1274" said:

> wvw is not pvp, even if it mostly revolves around it. There should be more nuance to it in terms of more reliance on enviromental tools and possibly have a more marked pve element, in terms of npc soldiers and commanders fighting all over the map.

> If you want to play pvp just play pvp.

> Worst thing is seeing people "duel" or just squatting in wvw and even get mad if you attack them. They're taking away space from people who actualy enjoy big fights and sieges, because they are obviously afraid of real pvp with any element of competition.

PvP mandates objectives rather than just fighting opposition players you may *randomly* meet for fun. People get really angry if you just try to fight 1v1 in that very time bounded environment. Of course the alternative in WvW is the duellers who do you no harm become the gankers people complain about incessantly and rage pm. But bottom line, WvW does enable large scale fights, but that isn't the rule of WvW. You can contribute in a number of ways, or just have some fun; it's far more social too in many ways.

> @"Jura.2170" said:

> Things like megaservers and the alliances anouncement changed WvW. Ppl stopped caring about ppt and server pride or just left the game. Most scouts quit too. Most WvW players left are the ones who like fights most and ignore things like defending, sieging and ppt score

WvW dailies are more attuned to aggressive objective attacking than defending imo. Capture camp/keep/tower/ruins/guard points, vs a single objective defender. Not remotely saying that's the cause or a fix, just saying there are aspects of wvw that are designed to get people taking objectives instead of caring about holding them (beyond ppt). Furthermore, scouting endlessly doesn't really contribute to your participation nor daily achievements

But at the end of the day it's dead boring and uninvolving. Even the most dedicated of scouts would have to ask themselves why bother. If there'd be something to address that then maybe it'd help but honestly surely the players themselves just get tired if the only ones doing it. Needs incentive for others to share the burden for 10 mins.

Lets hope their first suggestion is "get rid of downed state". Or at the very least, rallying from npc characters (e.g. guards).

I can't help but think the change is to ensure people can secure thief kills (can't kite/disengage as fast), perhaps secondarily to stop nearly every thief running short bow. Or maybe it's a positioning for a future change as was the alterations to acro line?

Going to try to get used to it - it's going to take a while as habits are difficult to break (i.e. use of shortbow to move around out of combat - it was only ever used in combat really to disengage if becoming outnumbered. Now will just have to respawn).

The real significant annoyance is that it used to be if you were trying to teleport up somewhere (or along), if it fails (lets be honest, teleports regularly fail and just remove init in this game) you could at least try again. With this change, you can't... and if you do, you'll have zero init whatsoever. If it only EVER removed init on a successful port-to-target then I'd be less concerned.

If people are really that upset about it I don't think posts are going to make the slightest difference... vote with your feet instead.

> @"vier.1327" said:

>

> Then we will know they have read it.

The forums are a placebo for the player base that we are listened to or have a voice.

> @"MLinni.6109" said:

> Apparently the EU T5 matchup server hamster has died.

> RIP Fluffy.

> Can we get a backup hamster? ;)

Likely out of Hamsters, possibly only a Etruscan shrew available.

Can confirm.

> @"lare.5129" said:

> > @"Chips.7968" said:

> >Apparently thief is support as it can give out boons.

> support = is not only give boons, or make direct heal. Support = help. If I blind enemy - this is help, if I put criple and meele teammate do push - this is help, if I ress in invisible - this is help. If I invisible finish enemy and teammate can asap switch to another target this is help too..

>

> > I just don't see how sword is clearly a support weapon. If it's all about boon strip, then pistol offhand, s/p

> no, boon-strip then dagger offhand. pistol - for additional stun. And no, boonstip in not main, this is part. Sword mobility, additional shawostep, again mobility, some evade, and etc. It very depend from gameplay style.

>

>

The bit about giving out boons is in direct reference to the videos claim (and sword doesn't give out boons either). Sword doesn't blind, doesn't cripple unless mele range and doesn't res in invis. The original post was about thief weapon sword being a support oriented weapon. My subsequent posting is questioning why, and then when someone claimed it is thief's BEST option to support, providing clear evidence to the contrary (short bow imo with reasons why is far better at support given what others claimed made sword the *best* weapon). The bit the other person made about shadow step and heal trait - pistol also shadow steps and is spammable - d/p but p/d also includes shadow step, and of course, short bow. That shadow step mobility isn't just sword. It's thief in general.

The rest of your post is a bit incoherent so struggling to understand what you mean. You're mixing overall thief weapons/traits when this was specifically about sword and auto attack itself. Meaning I don't really understand what point you're trying to make other than "thief can do support because... " *generic list* which can be applied to most thief builds or non specific sword things.

So, sometimes sword is very good for support. Yes, it probably is. Along with all the other weapon sets. Is it an actual support weapon? I still disagree and pointed out the (what i believe is a much stronger support weapon) in short bow.

p.s. Support means help - so then every single weapon set with every single trait of every single class is a support weapon... because they all help overcome opposition as you describe. That's just a bit too woolly a definition.

> @"Kodama.6453" said:

> I am just saying that I can see his point, since sword currently is the most supportive weapon you can take for thief.

> sword is thief's most supportive weapon to this point.

Well, we'll agree to disagree that sword was thief's intended support weapon. We'll agree to disagree it's the most/best support weapon.

Simple example: Short Bow.

Cripple on SB3, Immob for 2s on SB1 (with stealth), Ranged AoE provide blind (5), daze (4), weakness(4 + blast) and with sigil, the boon strip (4 with sigil + the daze actually interrupting). AoE heal with exact same shadow step trait (5) as claimed intended for sword.

Support to others through combination with fields due to having a blast finisher (2) and stackable gives: blinds, might, weakness, stealth, healing, condi cleanse, swiftness, auras.

Over to you, sword...

I should point out, I'm not supporting the idea it should compete with dagger, or pistols, or anything else. It's a different play style - but the auto attack needs a small buff to reduce the pain and long attrition fights it takes part in. The acro line has a small power buff (wait, support?) for sword and aids mobility admittedly, but that auto attack chain is just farcical without quickness sigils.

Well, a 1s single target soft cc, and 500 heal on shadow step return if traiting it (stay in 360 of where i'm to return to folks) I can see now it is indeed a support weapon. Best make a meta battle entry :smiley:

> @"BobbyT.7192" said:

> Here we go anet nerfed condi thief too. Now we can throw it away

It's not really nerfed though, it is still very stronk.

> @"lare.5129" said: class designers look at sword as a support weapon why should I think that this is for dps? Only because it named "sword"???

Sorry, can you provide some evidence of the "support" that sword does - in what way? Please don't just say "it boon strips on sword 3 if you land the second half of it". You have to be in melee range to affect that and is dependent upon it landing. The 3 skill shows a 20% increase in dmg if hitting a boonless opponent, which seems dps to me. Boons these days pulse, stacking on opposition, so ripping them sees them reapplied, so it's not quite as strong as it once was.

The video someone quotes for "support" is from 2013, there's been a significant amount of changes (including boons) since then. I mean did you watch it? Apparently thief is support as it can give out boons. If you look his claims about "support" by giving out boons are completely independent of the sword build, as is steal for removing. Nothing to do with sword - so even d/p, s/p, d/d. DrD have the same level of support at that point. Furthermore, many other classes give out far better, and far more frequent, and stacks (thief doesn't) of boons.

I just don't see how sword is clearly a support weapon. If it's all about boon strip, then pistol offhand, s/p on 3, short bow on 4 - all with absorption runes can do more (obviously if interrupting something). I can agree sword isn't DPS, it's more attrition (a bit like condi is supposed to be) - but that doesn't mean it's support. However, it is a bit under powered - not hugely - but a little bit - which is what is being mentioned :D Not asking for it to be First Place DPS choice for thief. Pointing out it's too weak.

> @"kiranslee.4829" said:

> So im not sure how much you are aware but after killing most of roaming builds (especially for war mains) anet didnt do much to do same for already broken DE. Class that daze and hit for 10k from hide, and able to go hide insta after is still promoting bad unfun play. Rise of de is showing that clearly. Any chance that anyone is looking into this ?

For years they tweaked thief to remove such bonuses and abilities. After all, they gutted acro to put it into a paid expansion (daredevil). Then nerfed it's steal range, and other aspects of that specialisation... reintroduced prior nerfs into _another _paid expansion. Quelle surprise it's done bit by bit to slowly herd people towards paid content.

The "rise of DE" (if there indeed is one? Not noticed) would align with their desired outcome.

People pay money. It'll get nerfed for the year during/after the next specialisation (if there is one).

> @"SlitheSlivier.1908" said:

> Oh God more reveal is a bad idea. Remember, stealth is thieves only defense... if that happens thief skills would also have to be unblockable.

> Both bad ideas imo. What you said is an interesting idea where if you hit a stealthed foe, maybe a marker is highlighted on the ground where you hit it.

> It would be hard to implement tho and could be negative side effects

Stealth isn't thief's only defence, or even a defence full stop; what are you talking about? Since you can take damage while in stealth, it's not an actual defence. The suggestion of markers if cleaving the stealthed object doesn't help classes with short mele weapon range only (i.e. range 130).

I'd be quite happy to see it removed from the game tbh. It's fucking dull.

> @"DeceiverX.8361" said:

> If it's WvW, a lot of people are hacking on permastealth builds because it's hard to report them

Sorry, what??

It's not just a lack of sword AA damage directly via auto attack - the AA is also twice as slow as dagger AA making cleaving a real hazard when attempting to land damage (and not a problem in just pvp). Should add, counter argument isn't that it's weak but a few other classes / builds are a bit over tuned maybe.

S/D can boon rip, but weapon sigils means pistol offhand 4 can boon rip on interrupts (wvw for example).

No. Then again, no desire to talk to anyone about GW2 - why would I?

However, on the 3 or 4 times i have mentioned it to people who play games over the years (based on the "what games do you play?" question) they've either never heard of it or laugh.

> @"Vashuddha.1538" said:

> > @"kash.9213" said:

> > This post looks like an excuse to use all of the usual nerf thief soundbites and you're overselling it. If it's backstab, you know what their position will be and you can auto someone while they're in stealth. If it's Death's Judgement you can counter them before they hit you. Your imaginary thief wasn't doing all of those things in one build constantly, if they could, more people would be playing them in blobs. My suggestion is, do what your imaginary thief was doing by staying calm and working on your build.

>

> Being condescending and arrogant is definitely not the way to go in order to achieve whatever you're trying to achieve here. To expect someone who has absolutely no knowledge about the class to foresee whatever a thief plans to do when he's invisible is quite shortsighted and just plain stupid. The only thing predictive here is the autocratic toxic people who just can't seem to express themselves in a civil manner whenever someone brings up an issue that revolves around their class, and no matter how eloquent someones approach is there's always that one guy who just seems to be the Michael Jordan of being complete ***hole. You bring nothing to the table. Utterly distasteful. Goodbye.

Being condescending or arrogant doesn't mean they're wrong or don't have a point. From this point you've just basically said "I don't know thief class" yet expect to win against it?

Do you want to be told how to win? Should you be able to win against every class without understanding their builds/skills/traits? As said repeatedly, if you want to know what the thief is thinking... play the class and try it. Don't immediately assume it's an unfair class.

> > I made the post because i sometime try to make new build, but most of the time you have to pick the usual traits from a tree bacuse the rest are just there to make number and not to have a real utily, for example **the second has 6sec bonus for a 60s colldown**

Yup; sigils on weapons do a better job for me - more quickness than the trait and more frequently.

That trait may have the advantage of being a stun break... but it procs when you're in combat and hit someone from side/behind, rather than the opportune moment to have it proc to break a stun (when you can't attack, so guessing via steal? but hardly reliable unless instantly stunned - must admit, not messed about with it precisely for that reason)

Logged in, loaded into wvw, switched map - login server error, game crashed, won't log in (right now) for about 5 mins?

Exited, started loader, tried log in - nope. Repeat about 10 times, now logged in.

Did someone furlough the servers?