manu.7539

I guess the ultimate vacin vs the "thief virus" (ouch! :astonished: ) is to switch to ranger, an easy class to learn and maybe the best to kill thieves! Lets hunt thieves! That's what I will do!

For Ascalon!

I should had I started this discussion because I'm afraid of what wvw will look like when all these newbies will master their class :anguished:

> @"Caedmon.6798" said:

> > @"lotus.5672" said:

> > all it takes to kill a thief is a ranger to sic 'em! him and the rest of your group can just spam 1 on him like you do in pve

>

> Yup,but people like to pretend its not the case. Because thieves have an unlimited amount of dodges,unlimited amount of init,and an unilimited amount of ports.

Right, many are talking about how easy they kill rangers and thieves, I guess we all do kill alot of them since they are so many but the ability of killing newbie with these class (and they are many) doesnt mean the class isnt toxic once its mastered.

> @"lotus.5672" said:

> all it takes to kill a thief is a ranger to sic 'em! him and the rest of your group can just spam 1 on him like you do in pve

Yeah I know rangers vs thief is great, I said there was an epidemic of thieves and rangers and I still see the same thing but I wonder if all these thieves encouraged thieve-haters (count me in*) to play ranger?

*Btw I dont hate the thief players but the class, I'm sorry if your main is thief, it must be annoying to be the target of so many criticisms. :/

Oh well, this discussion is even more boring and annoying than thieves themselves. Afterall honesty is such a lonely word :(

> @"lotus.5672" said:

> > @"manu.7539" said:

> > Didnt we all saw some thieves perma tap a keep and stall 5-10-20 and more guys trying and fail to kill them? Would u say 30 guys having a hard time to kill thief is normal?

>

> I would say they are obvious bad players

I would say you are an obvious thief main or a troll to say such an unfair statement.

Didnt we all saw some thieves perma tap a keep and stall 5-10-20 and more guys trying and fail to kill them? Would u say 30 guys having a hard time to kill thief is normal?

> @"kash.9213" said:

> So are other players not supposed to work on their builds to make it fair?

I never said it! I'll say as many others (I suppose) I worked hard to get good with my main. Having to restart all over again to get good with an other class or build just to try to "maybe" 1 day being able to counter 1 or 2 class isnt fun or fair.

Thanks for the links. Ok ok, sounds like restarting a discussion on a subject isnt appreciate! ;)

Dont know if anyone already asked for it. I didnt see anything like in the recents pages of discussions and anyway I'm so So SO excited by the idea!

The greater advantage is probably to reunite gw1 and gw2 communities under the next gw3 community. Also it could be fun to revisit or (to try for the 1st time) the great storyline of gw1 with todays movement abilities! Then I'd like to go out in gw2 pve with heroes like in gw1!

No need of full remakes, for example too much pvp mode is probably a wrong idea.. but bring me back the Jade Quarry arena from gw1! Fort Aspenwood arena could be nice too, its still alive btw on saturdays, would be nice to give to these loyal folks a brand new FA arena!

Its also a matter of loyalty for those playing and enjoying gw1+2 since so long, dont left them behind! Having 1 platform instead of 3 is probably a rational idea too.

> @"Cuks.8241" said:

>

You are absolutely right! I never used templates, call me lazy if you want but I'm more an entousiast player than a game mechanic technican! Guess its about time I put some time on it. Ty for reminding me this option! :)

Thieves (and rangers) are mostly anti roamers.. since they are so many roaming isnt so fun anymore if you dont adjust your build to counter them. I didnt make it yet, I love my build too much! :/

If you play the game and have enough patience you can get whatever you want! If you dont play enough to and still want the coolest things for free then learn to flip at the trading post and your problem is solved! Its easy, check for tutorials on youtube! Only few mins here and there and some little patience, its all it take to get rich! Just keep in mind that no money no candy, the game need some money to stay alive and to develop.

If you mostly play pvp and/or wvw, then you can have some reluctance to spend real money into the game. ANET put only little efforts to develop these game modes. The money you give away is mostly use to develop pve, its not fair for the pvp and wvw community.

> @"fuzzyp.6295" said:

> I main both Sw/D and Sc/F Weaver. Rangers and Thieves are trouble to Ele, but it makes sense. Rangers are great at keeping you at a distance, Sword Weaver has pitiful range and poor gap closers whereas Rangers have good mobility and stealth options. Getting pew pew'd at a distance is frustrating, but you have plenty of ways to avoid the damage. ToF, Earth 2, Water 2, Air 5, Dodge. (EDIT: Not to mention the Barrier base skills as well.) Barrage is a one trick, bait it out and dodge/evade through it (probably should try and wait for the knock back move if they haven't used it yet) then move in. If you are unable to get close, you really need to LoS them right away because LB Rangers will kill you if you aren't in their face.

>

> Thiefs are another issue. Deadeyes have the advantage against Sword Weavers, range burst + stealth = bad match up for Weaver, best advice is to just run if you can't handle the range pressure. IF you're fighting Core or Daredevil, its really just a battle to see CC them at the right time. A good thief will be able to out kite you as a Sword Weaver without much effort and will normally die if they over extend the battle. But as a Weaver you have plenty of CC to catch thieves in, just save you Pyro Vortex , Flame Uprising, Cauterizing Strike (if you run condi) or Quantum Strike (if you're power-based) for when you catch 'em. Usually that will melt away glass thieves, and glass thieves are the ones that will really pose a danger to Sword Weavers. If they're not glassy, you really shouldn't be taking too much damage.

>

> Consider using Focus if projectiles are really an issue. Focus is a lot better than Ele's give it credit for in WvW. I just don't use it because I love Riding that Lightening.

I'm not complaing about eles or espacially sw/d weaver, its great and I love it! Decent sustain, decent damage and nice mobility, cant ask much more except maybe getting back some of the stab that I use to have with my stances then it would be perfect! I can live without stab to be honest but so many cc's and condi condi builds these days without stab its challenging and well challenge is an ele thing for sure, you got to love it if you play ele! ;)

We're just out of the subject I wanted to talk (again), mostly had opposite statement of mine but good faith is a rarity is this world!

> @"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

> For the record though, that's the most Rangers I've seen in a squad for quite some time, not that they aren't often present but without a squad however. I just had to screencap it because it made me lol.

Well, you also said "Just an average day on Maguuma" in your 1st comment so.. say whatever you want that please you now I have serious doubts about your good faith in this discussion!

> @"kash.9213" said:

> What proliferation? Seems about the same amount of thieves and rangers out there as any other time. Rangers seem effective against thieves for the same reason everyone else is and that's mostly because thieves are telegraphed (their stealth telegraphs them also). We want to target the ones who looks like they might go down to an opener and probably didn't get a seat on the squad bus for buffs.

I dont have stats about how much every class are used, I dont know if it exist. I play 5-6+ hours EVERY day, I assume that very few players play that much so I honestly think you guys arent playing enough or roaming enough to see the game the way I do. So if you mostly zerging and play 10-20 hours a week you are probably honest with your statements but not necessary accurate!

> @"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

> Just an average day on Maguuma.

>

> 

>

Ty! That's the plain reality, finally someone honest! Well, cant expect a thief to be honest... lol, it just doesnt make sense!

Gratz to mag, finally some people understood that rangers can be great in zerg fights, I totally agree with it :)

> @"Wolfric.9380" said:

> Well while i beat thiefs (at least to run) and kill most rangers i usualy died horribly to necros and some mesmers but am fine with that. My ele evolveed as a small team build and thief bait and it does it very well. Also very good in PVE.

Thats funny coz I dont have issues with necros and mes, I'm not winning all the time but at least i'm getting fair fights. No reflect skills on sw/d weapon set, its fun to play because of the mobility but it has that weakness. Since they removed stabs from weaver stances I'm in even more trouble vs ranged skills combined with cc's like immo, fear stuns etc. I never understood why they completely removed the stab, that was just simply too drastic. Seeing that in the other hand they never really nerfed stealth spamming from thief, yeah I'm alot skeptical about ANET philosophy.

> @"kash.9213" said:

> On my thief I notice rangers right away because their main attacks stand out instinctively to me. They also have similar positioning and post up habits that I catch in my peripheral vision so again I'm going to notice those one or two rangers more than the blob of everything else rolling over me constantly.

That's interesting and lead me to a tought: did the proliferation of thieves caused the prolification of rangers? Probably a part in truth in it since rangers are the most effective vs thieves. I'm too stubborn to ditch my main just because 1 or 2 class are too OP vs me but I have the same temptation sometimes!

> @"Wolfric.9380" said:

> Hi. I came back today after two years pause. I always mained ele. Walked out trying to see how my rusted fingers perform. LoL. First opponent i met. Ranger. I cought and downed him but well i am to too bad at the moment ^^. His pet rezzed him. So i guess i need to learn how to play this again :-). What i like to say i always won to thiefs and rangers. And even after being totally out of training downed the first. A lot depends on your build. I run quite heavy missile defence with a unique S/F tempest. So if they kill you dowhat i did years ago when dying over and over again to thiefs. ... Tweaking my build to fit my playstyle and beat them. Needed about three month trainig so don´t give up.

Yeah I also kill many rangers but I know its only because they are still new with the class and there is alot of them out there. An experienced ranger will keep you at distance if you are playing melee style, then you will feel like a sitting duck waiting to die! Just keep playing and try sword/dagger then you will see what I mean!

OMG, cant answer to all of you coz rip my day if I try! I'll respond at least to those saying I'm a noob! I dont see so many mithril ranked players, I'm over 5k ranks and mostly played roaming ele to reach it. I probably played wvw more than most of those calling me a noob!

Yes its true I dont know all class as I should but I played enough the past 3-4 years to see these 2 class getting more and more popular and its ruining my roaming., My hopes and hard work to stay main ele are evaporating slowly. As I said before it will only get worst as the new comers in these class will get better. I just wanted to sound the alarm about this issue and didnt want to complain about my ele, I dont want to get into it here.

Guess some will never admit my statement but I know we're alot to complain about thieves and rangers (more about thieves for sure). Give me perma invuln as thieves got perma stealth and I wont complain but it would be ridiculous! Perma stealth is only a bad joke, getting one shooted from 1 mile away is another one. Like it or not, there is issues with these 2 class that need to be adressed and I dont see any seriousness coming out from ANET about it. So yeah I'm getting mad! Sorry about it but I love this game too much to let it ruined without saying few tough words!

> @"sneakytails.5629" said:

> Necro is very safe to play right now with lower damage by enemies and necro shroud.

>

> I tend to float around t3-4 with the occasional t2 and I see a lot of Necros. I would expect more Thieves and Rangers in T1.

Its out of subject but true. Nothing to compare with the proliferation of thieves and rangers but there is a bit more of necros lately and some are very tanky with still very decent damage. Glad you have fun with it :) I do enjoy my weaver btw, I stick to it for some good reasons, soloing camps for example is quite easy.. except its weak when I consistantly meet thieves and rangers on the way. Noobs apart, I cant do anything vs them whatever build or gear I use. So many of them now I'm getting scared about the fact that the noobs with these class will get better overtime, then it will be the end of hopes for my ele!

> @"LetoII.3782" said:

> Yeah, I' gonna call shenanigans on thief and ranger being over represented in WvW.. Necro is still the most common from what I see.

I'm a roamer so its a roamer point of view,. I dont see so many necros roaming thse days, I play alot, mostly in t1 lately,and I'm about sure about what I say when I say there is an epidemic of rangers and thieves but probably not in zergs, my bad I should said I was talking about roaming.

> @"subversiontwo.7501" said:

> I'm not sure that Strider disagrees with your notion of balance, I think he just pointed out the quality of your post, especially when creating a new thread on a known topic.

>

Its a known topic, exactly, so known I cant stay grounded as you advise, its too frustrating to see that ANET being so unfair for some class (eles in particular) and so permissive with others.

> @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> So... lemme see here...

>

> You run low health, light armor class and:

>

> - Ranger kills you = game bad

>

> - Thief kills you = game bad.

>

> Got it..

>

> Oh yeah.. and devs bad...

>

> Convincing argument.

>

>

Ok so lets all play thieves or rangers, is it your argument? I'm a main ele since gw1 and well, I'll stick on it even if eles are not so popular in wvw. I hoped that weaver was to bring some fun to eles and it did but ANET nerfed it alot in the past 2 years. So yeah, I'm raging to see some class ruling wvw with easy skills as I play piano and destroy my keyboard to survive or to do some little damage!