Sobx.1758

> @EvilSardine.9635 said:

> Deadeye is a troll's dream in WvW. I can sit there and "snipe" people who are already having a tough fight. There's ZERO they can do about it. It's insane the amount of damage I can put out with zero contest.

At that point so can literally any ranged weapon class. Try finding another -this time valid- argument.

> @Fipmip.7219 said:

> I thought people were just crying about de but learning that you can just mark anything to get the damage bonus.. pretty backwards.

Yeah and you have WHOLE 5 seconds to do it or you need to reapply the mark. Truly gamebreaking.

> @kash.9213 said:

> They should add some kind of a mark so you know when the distinct sound of a skill along with the unique effect with a cast time are on their way. Good thing you didn't get hit by Deaths Judgment since you mention getting hit by a hidden target.

>

Good one :d

> @Sodeni.6041 said:

> > @Narcemus.1348 said:

> > I would have to disagree. Albeit I am not done with all of the achievements, but I love playing the new maps. I especially love the griffon adventures but the bounty system is also fun when you have a good squad going. But no matter what you do, any zone will get old if you play it long enough. I think the only disappointment is that there aren't any large metas along the level of Heart of Thorns, but even those get old once played through too frequently. Still, i look forward to taking at least 2 more characters theough the content and I won't be bored on the playthrough.

>

> Yeah I love playing on these maps as well but not having repeatable content like meta events really hurt them in the long turn.

Kind of funny how you claim you've "played through the whole PoF already", but you don't even know about PoF meta events.

> @Vertep.2498 said:

> > @Umair.7693 said:

> > > @Cobrakon.3108 said:

> > > > @Cynz.9437 said:

> > > > I honestly still don't understand their logic behind CD on stealth attacks (outside of bias) while every other class is overloaded with skills (a lot of them aoe) dealing way more damage than bs ever could.

> > > > It is also really sad to see that this CD still locks you out of AA. Thieves are only class that are not allowed to use AA due to terrible design choices.

> > >

> > > I think they might of thought that the deadeye elite+ backstab might of had too much synergy which is why we got the nerf way in advance. I guess if you back stabbed and wiffed the elite would let u reset quickly for another backstab. That alone still wouldnt seem to be to op considering how weak bs was already, but i think it has to do with their worry about the synergy, with deadeye. The last thing they wan tis a bursty stealth class. Citation: balance patches XD.

> >

> > I think, no one would ever used DE with backstab.

>

> in pvp yes, you are right, I thought about that but then I just remembered how hard in 2 secs in stealth is to not LoS for backstab on DE while on DD just dodge with speed and done, much easier to use backstab on **mobile DD than on non-mobile DE**

Sooo you just repeated what he said? So what exactly was the point of that answer? :D

Wait, so what exactly did you mean by "all it does is +1" and "holding a spot"? :p

Also I understand the arguments in your last post, but what you're listing here can mostly affect pvp or wvw, but not really open world pve, where running full zerks is a standard and you don't really need to build tanky.

> @Baldrick.8967 said:

> Taking your comparison a little further, once a sniper fires they are revealed if anyone happens to be looking towards where they fired from, unless they are deep into cover and took ages getting there

Except DE gets revealed if he uses DJ and you literally have a laser beam comming from his rifle to your character in case you still couldn't say where he's shooting from.

So what are you even talking about here?

>unless it has heavy penalties for use, like, say, 90% movement penalty. How many RL snipers run around like greased lightning?

Go try playing DE and then come back with your """arguments""", because right now you clearly don't know what you're talking about.

> There are way too many skills that do way too much damage in wvw now, as well as all the barriers, reflects, boon strip, blah, blah, that makes any large scale fight a big mess and one mis step means you're dead with no chance of recovery.

Large scale fight was always a mess. And it will be.

> @Zacchary.6183 said:

> > @Asur.9178 said:

> > Daredevil is more fun and far more useful...but then again, this is open world we're talking about - literally everything works there.

>

> That's subjective. Personally I think Daredevil was what core thief was supposed to be, and even then all it does is +1 and evade spam. At least with DE I can support through might and hold a spot.

Still wondering how that's relevant in open world pve thread? :D

> @Asur.9178 said:

> > @Zacchary.6183 said:

> > > @Asur.9178 said:

> > > > @Zacchary.6183 said:

> > > > > @Asur.9178 said:

> > > > > Daredevil is more fun and far more useful...but then again, this is open world we're talking about - literally everything works there.

> > > >

> > > > That's subjective. Personally I think Daredevil was what core thief was supposed to be, and even then all it does is +1 and evade spam. At least with DE I can support through might and hold a spot.

> > >

> > > If you want to support while being useful, play a warrior.

> >

> > That's implying that DE is useless which is completely false.

>

> No; that implies that if you'e building DE to be support, you're useless at everything else...and your support capabilities are horrible compared to that of a warrior even if you built full support.

Yup, that's also what I've been saying -if you want to play a support role, there are simply much better picks.

> @Zacchary.6183 said:

> > @Asur.9178 said:

> > Daredevil is more fun and far more useful...but then again, this is open world we're talking about - literally everything works there.

>

> That's subjective. Personally I think Daredevil was what core thief was supposed to be, and even then all it does is +1 and evade spam. At least with DE I can support through might and hold a spot.

This is a thread about open world pve though?

> @HeavyVee.2453 said:

> > @"Skyline Crash.6254" said:

> > You've probably never played HoT then

>

> maps in HoT were terrible anyway.

But that's not the point here, soo.... ?

"Magi's for survivability"? Really? Do people actually have any poblem with surviving in mad lab zergs? <.< Even moreso when you're spamming ranged weapons? I'm just using my regular DD pve equip and have no problems. Also you're getting swiftness from a dodge, so I don't see why you'd need Sigil of Speed on the bow? :p

"don't stop" is also pretty much covering the same area as DD dodge (unhindered combatant)?

tldr: opinions are opinions, so try it out and decide by yourself

> @Noise.1824 said:

> . Lack of information about items, events, quests, ar just about game itself, if i need to minimize game and go to 3rd party website to get info what this item needed for at all?

> it screams game have huge problems in user interface.

I disagree, the fact that you got used to being "hand held" by the game at every occasion doesn't mean every game has to follow that concept to be good.

> . anvil - dialog box? why it's there, just repair me on use.

Meh, is this really a problem? :D

> . exclusive sell tab, to sell thing i need to switch to "special sell tab" this is really awful design.

See, that's just another case of "opinion", not "a problem that needs to be solved". It can actually help you with not accidentally selling something by missclicking.

> . move items in bank only by drag and drop them? really?

You can double click too. How else would you like to do it?

> . do something with "red zones" where i can be killed, they are too flat and a lot of times they same color as terrain under them(for example make them also a bit vertical, add height), also would be awesome if we got separate colors for zones where i can be killed instantly, where i be knocked off, or where i just get some damage.

Honestly I don't think I ever had a problem with seeing them...?

And giving away too much information just by "coloring the danger zone" is kind of meh, because you might as well stop paying attention to your opponent. Not to mention actually knowing their kit.

> + about red zones, combat mechanics all about red zones looks weird and boring, there also many situations you overdo this thing and it become japan "bullet hell" game, not fun at all for non hardcore players.

If anything, it helps "non hardcore players" more than it does the "hardcore" ones...

> yes I am noob and maybe just bad, i found popular pve build for class with proper gear, found rotation videos and overall guide to class. it helped a bit, but i still die almost on every pack in ls3, so i think this wasn't really tested with all classes and how it feels with class without defense.

What did you play? I don't think the classes are problem here, it's most certanly the player. You can't just make things too easy or people on the other side of spectrum will come and complain that all the story quests are too easy/pointless. This is not an interactive ~~story~~ movie, it's an mmorpg.

> . track of objectives are awful - why i need to know completion percent’s? just put there useful

> information like 1 of 4 plants gathered, or 6 of 12 components of collection done and list of undone objectives.

What? One time you're complaining about "not enough information about quests" and now you complain about... too much information?

Track of objectives is fine. And it's useful.

> . why we see skills we get in timed events only after we start it? Let's take a look at very bad designed event like "beetle feast" you only see skills you can use after you pick up mushrooms, then you need to stop, hover mouse over it and read what they really do? Suggestion? place all skills with description on screen where you start it.

You can repeat it indefinitely, so how's that a problem? Do a test run, check the skills and restart.

> . combat log more info(mark incoming/outgoing with completely different colors) and filters to show only incoming or outgoing damage? so many times i die and i don't even know how it happened.

True.

What might help you is making a new tab with only combat logs, which you can check after the combat if you want to know how or why you died.

> . id say its low priority for me, but would be awesome if we got some sort of wardrobe, where we can save build + gear for it. another way just save multiple builds somewhere inside "H" menu.

True and people wanted it for a loooong time.

> . repeatable hearts and hero points ( can we get good icons where i can clearly see if i done it once already or not).

Those icons already exist and are in the game.

> + achievements placement on buff bar only when combat starts, i need to stop in the middle of the battle and read what they are? (they should be on the bottom of story mission tracking window)

You can check achievements (unless it's one of the 'hidden' one) before even starting the story missions if that's what you mean.

> . removing all party chat messages when you leave party chat, why?

Yup, that's stupid.

> . popups with ok button, its really annoying when you need to press it, and for it you need to use mouse, for some reason you cant press ok with keyboard, also there no any good reason to have this window usually instead of it just make, some color notification in chat.

I mean you're using the mouse anyways, so how's that a problem? :D

> . a lot of over tuned monsters especially in HoT expansion, monsters just have insane amount of crowd control, i die sometimes from full hp in chain control. There seems no any diminishing return for it, also it don’t break from amount of damage i receive.

That's kind of the point. It's more challenging than core zones, you need to get used to it.

> + all damage from monsters should be converted from flat numbers to % of target hp, it would be more fair i think.

xD

No. Just no. That's a terrible idea and how can you put it as any kind of "improvement" for an mmorpg with a variety of classes and builds is beyond me.

> . sometimes i play from slow pc with low settings, and game drastically drops brightness and contrast on low settings, there almost nothing is visible on low settings in dark rooms, yes there is gamma slide bar but it ruins all colors.

It depends what you mean, but some of the "dark rooms" ARE supposed to be that dark. There are ways to get light in there though.

No, it's not. DE isn't a good pve spec if you want to use rifle.

And if you don't want to use rifle, just use DD, huh.

> @"Phoebe Ascension.8437" said:

> While Leather is a bit expensive, i have a way bigger problem with orichalcum being only 1 silver now as top tier item. If i see node now, i actually consider 'skipipng' it... that should not be case for a 'rare and highest level' node.

That's because it's not "rare" anymore. But yeah, I'm skipping most ori nodes too.

Bad troll.

> @Turk.5460 said:

> > @Sobx.1758 said:

> > > @Turk.5460 said:

> > > I don't think I ever called the skill a bug, though I agree that stacking malice off of a gate or wall _is_ a bug. So what I'm saying is that you don't understand what's going on in this thread enough to pay attention to who is saying what. So then you're trying to suggest that someone random says something just so you can attempt to make a point that has already been debated back and forth for pages, oh god.

> > >

> > > Sit down.

> >

> > You might want to reread the post, beause you understood completely nothing. Again.

> > I never said you used word "bugged", but early in the post I -as I thought- clearly compared "skill working not intended" to "skill being bugged", hence why I'm using one of the two farther down in the post. Now, after not really understanding what you've read, you decided to stick to the "I never said it's bugged" and end your post "sit down" like you somehow... well, "schooled" me there? Seriously, try understanding what you read.

> > (also AGAIN while talking about "skill not working as intended", Chaba was refering to "malice stacks boosting DJ's dmg on non-market targets", so stop making up random crap now as an excuse <3 )

> > And before you say "you never said it's not working as intended" (but you did), what I was "hitting at" was this:

> >

> > > However, it seems that you think over-tuned =/= unintended. So all over-performing abilities that were nerfed in the past were _intended_ to over-perform and be over-tuned? If that was the case, why were they nerfed? Were they indented to be overpowered, then later nerfed? Because that is exactly the logic you are using here...

> >

> > Which is a pile of bullkitten and I already explained why.

> >

> > But hey, you've tried.

>

> So we are in agreement that you think over-tuned abilities are intended? And that previously nerfed skills were intended to be over-performing? Because you most certainly did not explain why if you think otherwise. You've brought nothing new to the table here since your very first post,

> and claim that you've already explained things that you clearly have not, regardless if you _think_ you did, which judging by replies other than yourself and your #1 fan Sobx, you have not. Then when someone questions your logic (which you seem to think is flawless, for some reason), you reply with zero context of their post. Its as though you've re-written their reply to what you think you can argue against, and then reply to that. This is why you can't be taken seriously in this thread.

>

> So...yea...take a seat, think about what you've done

"Myself and my number one fan Sobx"? What?

"I reply with zero context", while literally seperating posts into smaller quotes so you know what exactly I am answering to? If anything, it's you who've tried to say I "don't know who I'm answering to", while at the same time disregarding completely what Chaba said before.

Bad trolling attempt, buddy.

> @Shadowcat.2680 said:

> > @Sobx.1758 said:

> > > @Shadowcat.2680 said:

> > > > @Solori.6025 said:

> > > > > @Shadowcat.2680 said:

> > > > > > @Solori.6025 said:

> > > > > > > @Shadowcat.2680 said:

> > > > > > > > @Solori.6025 said:

> > > > > > > > > @Shadowcat.2680 said:

> > > > > > > > > > @Sobx.1758 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @Shadowcat.2680 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @Sobx.1758 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @Shadowcat.2680 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @Solori.6025 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @KrHome.1920 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @Shadowcat.2680 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the ambients don't need to be on the map

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yea thanks, as a necro I salute you for that great idea to let me start every fight with 0 Life Force.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or in other words: If a skill is broken, fix that skill and not other stuff which causes new problems. Pretty trivial, isn't it?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Besides that: The maps will look and feel weird and empty without ambient creatures.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > So it's ok for everyone else to have a combat advantage from ambient creatures just not a thief?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cause if you can build life force why cant someone else build their class resource off an ambient?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > You want to fix ambient creature abuse? Fix it for everyone, don't be a hypocrite about it.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > At least when a necro uses a white mob ambient for life force, said mob dies. A deadeye marking an ambient for malice stacks doesn't even aggro the mob, much less kill it.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > How does it make any difference? If DE aggroed a mob, how would that change literally anything in this situation?

> > > > > > > > > > > > And how does the fact that "necro kills a mob" makes it in ANY way better? Is killing a single regular mob suddenly hard? Or what's exactly your point here? Because honestly I can't see where you're going with this ""argument"".

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Seriously, walk me through your thought process.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Ability to camp a white ambient for combat advantage.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Like you'll run out of mobs as necro, right?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > In a given location, yes. And life force has a cap. Malice will build to full stacks and rinse and repeat so long as the deadeye stays within 1500 units of its mark. As a resource, it's endless so long as the deadeye can find any mob nearby to mark. A comparison to a warrior's adrenaline could be made, but it'd be as faulty as the comparison to a necro's life force. Adrenaline does not stay full and has to be built again by finding something new to attack.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > ..

> > > > > > > > life force gained has a cap, but the resource can be filled infinitely and as many times as you want.

> > > > > > > > The arguement of rinse and repeat could be used for a necro as well, in the time that it takes to generate full malice your mobs would respawn, in a practical setting you would have moved to a new location with new mobs, rinse and repeat.

> > > > > > > > Generating an infinite source to be able to recharge your life force after or before combat if you are not full

> > > > > > > > Giving you a combat advantage.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > PvE mobs need to be removed, everyone coming in to WvW should come in with nothing until they actually fight

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > A necro can't take out a toon's entire health pool in one shot with that resource. Death's Judgment needs work. It should at least require the deadeye to mark its target, else the concept of the mark, of knowing you're in the deadeye's sights before that 20k+ shot, is rather pointless.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Oh you're right...

> > > > > > A necro's resource is actually much worse..

> > > > > > It's not like you can

> > > > > > AoE Boon strip

> > > > > > load enemies with condies

> > > > > > grant barrier ( LARGE barriers) to teammates

> > > > > > convert condies on teammates and

> > > > > > create area denial with shades

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Necro's are much worse off,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > /s

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Seriously though, a necro in WvW is one of the meta classes that can, with enough of them, determine the flow of a zerg fight or even a roaming fight, same as warrior with it's WoD.

> > > > > > _Thief has an over performing skill, sure, make that argument, its valid._

> > > > > > A lot of skills are over performing, burst condi necro's are one of them (theirs a reason necro's were one of the first nerfed)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > A Necro's resource has much more of an impact on the whole of WvW be it roaming or zerging, and pretending that it isn't is silly.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > That is my exact point. I don't know of another profession with a one-shot kill skill. And it is a one-shot kill skill when a deadeye is able to start a fight with a 20k+ DJ as the first move it makes. The DJ can be 20k+ as the deadeye's opening move because it operates independently of the deadeye's marked target. The skill is poorly designed for WvW.

> > > >

> > > > That wasn't what you were discussing from the original response.

> > > > Again if you want to make the argument of overperformance do it, but claiming using ambient creatures are broken for one class and not the other?

> > > > You haven't listed one viable reason why necro is less valuable than thief, and your examples of the thief resource have been completely and utterly false.

> > > > Why is necro OK when it builds it's class resource, but it is not OK for others. Skills aside.

> > > > When literally both ( actually any class) can abuse pve mobs or get resources pre combat from abusing ambient creatures. Why is Necro exclusive for being the exception?

> > > > That's what you are explaining, and discussing.

> > >

> > > Said deadeye uses the resource gained to one-shot players with a 20k-30k opening shot. It is broken for a deadeye to be able to gain that resource off any target within 1500 units all without even aggroing the target (thus the target does not die and continues to provide malice stacks). If the malice resets before the deadeye can make his shot, all it has to do is mark the target again.

> > >

> > > No, it's not practical in a fight. But it is a way for a deadeye to start a fight with full stacks of malice, malice that is useful mostly for DJ alone.

> > >

> > > There is no reasonable argument for any other profession's resource being comparable. No other profession can use their resource to wipe out an enemy's entire health pool with a single skill.

> >

> > How about you actually play the class before commenting on it?

>

> I have played deadeye. Malice and the mark operates as I've said. A deadeye can even mark an enemy gate or wall for the malice stacks to use on DJ.

>

> If you think Anet won't fix the deadeye mark and its targeting the way they did epidemic working off siege like oil pots, then your head is in the sand somewhere out in the Crystal Desert.

What the hell are you even talking about? For the whole time you write about "white ambient mobs", in the post I answered to there was literally nothing about gate-targetting and suddenly you decide to answer to me with:

"malice operates as I said, (...) If you think Anet won't fix the deadeye mark and its targeting the way they did epidemic working off siege like oil pots, then your head is in the sand"

You literally didn't say anything about this, so why do you suddenly think my answer meant that I'm "fine with targetting walls/gates"?

Also it's interesting how you claim that "**I have played deadeye. Malice and the mark operates as I've said.**", when before that you wrote "In a given location, yes. **And life force has a cap.**" as a **counter-argument for malice**, which would suggest.... that malice somehow doesn't have a cap? Or, again, what EXACTLY was your point with "life force has a cap" in there?

Not to mention you totally avoided this question:

>> How does it make any difference? If DE aggroed a mob, how would that change literally anything in this situation?

> And how does the fact that "necro kills a mob" makes it in ANY way better? Is killing a single regular mob suddenly hard? Or what's exactly your point here? Because honestly I can't see where you're going with this ""argument"".

>

> Seriously, walk me through your thought process.

I mean you answered something while quoting said post, but you didn't answer to its contents in the slightest. Aggroing a mob changes nothing.

> @kash.9213 said:

> > @Aomine.5012 said:

> > Kneel is an ok mechanic.

> > What's not ok is kneel costing initiative, which is a joke.

> >

> > Make it like engi tool kit with no cd and no initiative cost and you have a good strategic weapon.

>

> Then they would have to change Silent Scope or that would be a free and frequent stealth.

Silent scope adds ini cost, so no.

Anyway, I don't really care about kneel ini cost, it's low enough.

> @zengara.8301 said:

>I would recomend you to watch this youtube video that shows you how to "use" a deadeye to its full potential

>

"How to use deadeye to its full potential".

...in silver :D

> @Zacchary.6183 said:

> > @Asur.9178 said:

> > > @Zacchary.6183 said:

> > > > @Asur.9178 said:

> > > > > @zengara.8301 said:

> > > > > > @ZyniX.3589 said:

> > > > > > If you don't like it that's fine. Everyone isn't supposed to fall in love with every elite spec. Maybe the next thief elite will cater to your taste. I enjoy the Deadeye rifle even if it could use more damage. It does have decent burst and good boon sharing.

> > > > >

> > > > > Well, if I have to be 100% transparent, instead of depending on what is written between the lines, it would be cool to know others thoughts are about the snipers.

> > > > > And I personally do not think we need more damage :b Most people are experiencing 1 shot kill in WvW and 2-3 shot in SPvP; I would recomend you to watch this youtube video that shows you how to "use" a deadeye to its full potential

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Zerk amulet...nuff said. Any decent player, especially an opposing DD will kitten on it.

> > > >

> > > > Those pathetic auto damage is a joke. A lb SlB does a better job than this while having more sustain.

> > > >

> > > > There's a reason montages mean nothing. This is a great example of it. Big numbers mean little.

> > > >

> > > > Also, none of those players knew how to dodge/reflect/absorb/block.

> > >

> > > Dodging/reflecting/absorbing/blocking means nothing when you fail to notice the Deadeye setting up. And if the Deadeye knows what they are doing, you won't notice them.

> >

> > I could break down the entire video for you, but that isn't necessary...so I'll use the very first two kills.

> >

> > There's zero reasons for that necro to have not seen the DE running far/their home. He was not in stealth while running there. Hmmmm...I wonder what that could mean. Oh, were you kitten and didn't see it? Okay...pay attention to the sound. There's more than enough sound tells in this game.

> >

> > Oh, did you respawn and noticed your node just flipped? I wonder if there's an enemy there....hmmmmmm...sure must have flipped by itself after you just died to a DE. Surely there's no enemy at the point. /s

> >

> > DJ reveals you before shooting. The telegraphs are long and big enough for anyone not blind to see and react to it.

> >

> > Like I said, anyone can make a montage, especially with low skilled players. Doesn't make that elite spec/build good though. DE may be decent at trash tier PvP and open world PvE (it's a joke), but it's trash in competitive PvP AND hardcore PvE. It is especially bad when using rifle.

> >

> > PS: A glass-cannon 1-shot build like this for DD outperforms that 1-shot-1-trick pony DE. Doesn't mean it's good though.

>

> First Kill: The Deadeye was way out there and nobody in their right mind would go and chase someone 3k units out. The Deadeye also stealthed before he set up behind the point so there was no noticeable movement for the necro to catch. His Mug-traited Mark dealt barely noticeable damage to the Necro and it wasn't until the Deadeye crit for 18k that the Necro panicked. By the time he tried responding, he was put on his kitten by the Deadeye.

"dealt barely noticable damage"?? You shouldn't need to be hit with a "mug traited mark" to notice the mark in the first place and the nectro just didn't react for the whole setup, dodging after getting hit with DJ, lmao.

The thing about DE is that, obviously, it's bursty and CAN work. The problem is that it will work mostly against bad players and that's not the way to rate a spec imo. Explaining that the enemy didn't notice mug-traited mark because it dealt low damage, please.

> @Turk.5460 said:

> I don't think I ever called the skill a bug, though I agree that stacking malice off of a gate or wall _is_ a bug. So what I'm saying is that you don't understand what's going on in this thread enough to pay attention to who is saying what. So then you're trying to suggest that someone random says something just so you can attempt to make a point that has already been debated back and forth for pages, oh god.

>

> Sit down.

You might want to reread the post, beause you understood completely nothing. Again.

I never said you used word "bugged", but early in the post I -as I thought- clearly compared "skill working not intended" to "skill being bugged", hence why I'm using one of the two farther down in the post. Now, after not really understanding what you've read, you decided to stick to the "I never said it's bugged" and end your post "sit down" like you somehow... well, "schooled" me there? Seriously, try understanding what you read.

(also AGAIN while talking about "skill not working as intended", Chaba was refering to "malice stacks boosting DJ's dmg on non-market targets", so stop making up random crap now as an excuse <3 )

And before you say "you never said it's not working as intended" (but you did), what I was "hitting at" was this:

> However, it seems that you think over-tuned =/= unintended. So all over-performing abilities that were nerfed in the past were _intended_ to over-perform and be over-tuned? If that was the case, why were they nerfed? Were they indented to be overpowered, then later nerfed? Because that is exactly the logic you are using here...

Which is a pile of bullkitten and I already explained why.

But hey, you've tried.

> @Turk.5460 said:

> > @Solori.6025 said:

> > > @Chaba.5410 said:

> > > > @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

> > > > not doing something in the Tooltip then it would be doing something not intended.

> > >

> > > OK, since people still seem to be struggling with the concept... If a skill is doing exactly as what is written in the tooltip, but is so obviously overtuned, then it really isn't doing what was intended. All you can say is "Anet intended the dmg numbers to be what is listed in the tooltip." not "Anet intended for this skill to one-shot other players." especially when there's a repeated pattern of change to skills that one-shot players.

> >

> > You are arguing developer intent. Are you a dev?

> > No, so how do you know what is intended?

> >

> > Overturned =/= bugged

> > This is basic understanding you still can't seem to either grasp or comprehend

> >

> > We could name many , many skills that are overturned, but not bugged, just strong.

> > Anet probably didn't intend for conditions to behave like burst, but in this meta it is not uncommon to get large stacks of conditions on a single target.

> > We can not state as fact that it isn't working as intended based on what we feel but we can state that it is overturned based on comparisons drawn from similar skills or combos in the game.

> >

> > Why is this concept hard for you.

> >

> > Overtuned =/= unintended/bugged/glitched

>

> She is simply promoting doubt. Doubt that the dev's intended to have a 1HKO ability, and has repeatedly mentioned that only a Dev can answer whether or not this 1HKO capability was truly the design of DJ.

>

> However, it seems that you think over-tuned =/= unintended. So all over-performing abilities that were nerfed in the past were _intended_ to over-perform and be over-tuned? If that was the case, why were they nerfed? Were they indented to be overpowered, then later nerfed? Because that is exactly the logic you are using here...

You're confusing skills "not working as intended" (as in "being bugged") with skills having their numbers too high. I'm not discussing if you're right or wrong about the numbers, what I'm saying is that you don't understand what a "bugged skill" really means. And then you're trying to suggest that someone else is wrong about it, oh god.

Example of a skill being overtuned:

Gazelle hits for 234554365346534k dmg. <-not a bug

Example of a skill not working as intended:

Gazelle being able to multihit the same person. <- a bug

What Chaba actually kept saying is that "Malice stacks boosting DJ's dmg on non-marked targets is a bug" (or a skill not working as intended) WHICH IS FALSE. I'll take it Chaba's your friend or someone you know, so maybe that's why you don't see it too clearly. If not, then... I don't really know what else to say.

> @"Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582" said:

> > @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

> > > @"Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582" said:

> > > > @Sobx.1758 said:

> > > > I'm not "implying it", it's a fact.

> > >

> > > Yes well Gazelle Charge was working exactly as the tooltip stated too.

> >

> > Really it showed multi hit? Since every skill that hits multiple times shows multi hit....

> > @Sobx.1758 said:

> > > @"Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582" said:

> > > > @Sobx.1758 said:

> > > > I'm not "implying it", it's a fact.

> > >

> > > Yes well Gazelle Charge was working exactly as the tooltip stated too.

> >

> > No, it didn't, but if you feel you need to lie to try and "make your point" then it's up to you.

> > Also you guys keep confusing situations when something isn't specified in the tooltip with situations where something is clearly explained in the tooltip and then sooomehow you're trying to use it as a valid argument in this case. <.<

>

> It only multi-hit downed targets which was a bug, obviously. The damage and the skill charge were working exactly as the tooltip stated which could result in a 1-shot if you stacked enough modifiers.

>

> I'm merely pointing out that 1-shot mechanics are not to ANets liking and that DJ will most certainly be nerfed, I'd say that they'll make the malice bonus damage only apply to the marked target.

No, you weren't pointing that out, you were trying to say that it proves that DJ has a mistake in a tooltip or it does more than the tooltip says (but it doesn't) like the Gazelle did. Suddenly when called out on your bullkitten, you're claiming it's about something entirely different.

So, again, just stop lying when you're trying to make an argument.

> @Chaba.5410 said:

> > @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

> > not doing something in the Tooltip then it would be doing something not intended.

>

> OK, since people still seem to be struggling with the concept... If a skill is doing exactly as what is written in the tooltip, but is so obviously overtuned, then it really isn't doing what was intended. All you can say is "Anet intended the dmg numbers to be what is listed in the tooltip." not "Anet intended for this skill to one-shot other players." especially when there's a repeated pattern of change to skills that one-shot players. People can argue back and forth here all we want on the nature of what exactly needs adjusting on the skill, we still have to wait for Anet to change the skill to get the answer of what exactly was intended.

This is clearly not what you were saying before. Multiple posts and people tried to argue with you when you kept saying that "malice boosting DJ's dmg on non-marked targets is a bug", suddenly you change sides and decide to say what you really meant is that the skill is overtuned and that's why it doesn't work as intended.

How about growing a pair and admitting you were wrong once in a while? Instead you twist and turn your own words in hopes of keeping up your """argument""". Pathetic.

> @Chaba.5410 said:

> > @babazhook.6805 said:

> > If the INTENT that DJ remain the big hitter, lowering DJ damage would mean lowering the damage of all of those other skills as well. End result, no reason to use the Rifle.

>

> This is why there's the suggestion that the damage bonus should apply when the target is truly marked rather than lower the dmg numbers for DJ. It would be in line with the high risk/high reward style Anet said they were going for.

And automatically malice system becomes worthless in any bigger scale pvp (and with that -the whole rifle dmg). To addition of being a strictly single-target weapon.

> @Shadowcat.2680 said:

> > @Solori.6025 said:

> > > @Shadowcat.2680 said:

> > > > @Solori.6025 said:

> > > > > @Shadowcat.2680 said:

> > > > > > @Solori.6025 said:

> > > > > > > @Shadowcat.2680 said:

> > > > > > > > @Sobx.1758 said:

> > > > > > > > > @Shadowcat.2680 said:

> > > > > > > > > > @Sobx.1758 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @Shadowcat.2680 said:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > @Solori.6025 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @KrHome.1920 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @Shadowcat.2680 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the ambients don't need to be on the map

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Yea thanks, as a necro I salute you for that great idea to let me start every fight with 0 Life Force.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Or in other words: If a skill is broken, fix that skill and not other stuff which causes new problems. Pretty trivial, isn't it?

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Besides that: The maps will look and feel weird and empty without ambient creatures.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > So it's ok for everyone else to have a combat advantage from ambient creatures just not a thief?

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Cause if you can build life force why cant someone else build their class resource off an ambient?

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > You want to fix ambient creature abuse? Fix it for everyone, don't be a hypocrite about it.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > At least when a necro uses a white mob ambient for life force, said mob dies. A deadeye marking an ambient for malice stacks doesn't even aggro the mob, much less kill it.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > How does it make any difference? If DE aggroed a mob, how would that change literally anything in this situation?

> > > > > > > > > > And how does the fact that "necro kills a mob" makes it in ANY way better? Is killing a single regular mob suddenly hard? Or what's exactly your point here? Because honestly I can't see where you're going with this ""argument"".

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Seriously, walk me through your thought process.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Ability to camp a white ambient for combat advantage.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Like you'll run out of mobs as necro, right?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > In a given location, yes. And life force has a cap. Malice will build to full stacks and rinse and repeat so long as the deadeye stays within 1500 units of its mark. As a resource, it's endless so long as the deadeye can find any mob nearby to mark. A comparison to a warrior's adrenaline could be made, but it'd be as faulty as the comparison to a necro's life force. Adrenaline does not stay full and has to be built again by finding something new to attack.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ..

> > > > > > life force gained has a cap, but the resource can be filled infinitely and as many times as you want.

> > > > > > The arguement of rinse and repeat could be used for a necro as well, in the time that it takes to generate full malice your mobs would respawn, in a practical setting you would have moved to a new location with new mobs, rinse and repeat.

> > > > > > Generating an infinite source to be able to recharge your life force after or before combat if you are not full

> > > > > > Giving you a combat advantage.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > PvE mobs need to be removed, everyone coming in to WvW should come in with nothing until they actually fight

> > > > >

> > > > > A necro can't take out a toon's entire health pool in one shot with that resource. Death's Judgment needs work. It should at least require the deadeye to mark its target, else the concept of the mark, of knowing you're in the deadeye's sights before that 20k+ shot, is rather pointless.

> > > >

> > > > Oh you're right...

> > > > A necro's resource is actually much worse..

> > > > It's not like you can

> > > > AoE Boon strip

> > > > load enemies with condies

> > > > grant barrier ( LARGE barriers) to teammates

> > > > convert condies on teammates and

> > > > create area denial with shades

> > > >

> > > > Necro's are much worse off,

> > > >

> > > > /s

> > > >

> > > > Seriously though, a necro in WvW is one of the meta classes that can, with enough of them, determine the flow of a zerg fight or even a roaming fight, same as warrior with it's WoD.

> > > > _Thief has an over performing skill, sure, make that argument, its valid._

> > > > A lot of skills are over performing, burst condi necro's are one of them (theirs a reason necro's were one of the first nerfed)

> > > >

> > > > A Necro's resource has much more of an impact on the whole of WvW be it roaming or zerging, and pretending that it isn't is silly.

> > > >

> > >

> > > That is my exact point. I don't know of another profession with a one-shot kill skill. And it is a one-shot kill skill when a deadeye is able to start a fight with a 20k+ DJ as the first move it makes. The DJ can be 20k+ as the deadeye's opening move because it operates independently of the deadeye's marked target. The skill is poorly designed for WvW.

> >

> > That wasn't what you were discussing from the original response.

> > Again if you want to make the argument of overperformance do it, but claiming using ambient creatures are broken for one class and not the other?

> > You haven't listed one viable reason why necro is less valuable than thief, and your examples of the thief resource have been completely and utterly false.

> > Why is necro OK when it builds it's class resource, but it is not OK for others. Skills aside.

> > When literally both ( actually any class) can abuse pve mobs or get resources pre combat from abusing ambient creatures. Why is Necro exclusive for being the exception?

> > That's what you are explaining, and discussing.

>

> Said deadeye uses the resource gained to one-shot players with a 20k-30k opening shot. It is broken for a deadeye to be able to gain that resource off any target within 1500 units all without even aggroing the target (thus the target does not die and continues to provide malice stacks). If the malice resets before the deadeye can make his shot, all it has to do is mark the target again.

>

> No, it's not practical in a fight. But it is a way for a deadeye to start a fight with full stacks of malice, malice that is useful mostly for DJ alone.

>

> There is no reasonable argument for any other profession's resource being comparable. No other profession can use their resource to wipe out an enemy's entire health pool with a single skill.

How about you actually play the class before commenting on it?

> @choovanski.5462 said:

> > @Sobx.1758 said:

> > > @"Reaper Alim.4176" said:

> > > What? Thief got some more skills that one shots people out of the blue in GW2? Meh, just another day in GW2. Nothing to see or hear here, just move along.

> > >

> > > That's exactly what ANet wanted for that class. To be able to kill people without offering them the chance to fight back. Come on guys, I thought yall was much smarter than this? Way to let me down again. :trollface:

> >

> > You literally learn to dodge skills with similar cast time at around level 8. I mean... regular players learn, apparently you don't.

> > Stick to pve.

>

> this is such a silly argument. you can hit 20-35k in PvP gear with DJ, much higher on WvW.

Sure, go make a thief and tell me how often you'll hit those 35k dmg shots.

And what's silly is arguing that it's irrelevant how telegraphed the skill is in the game with easly accessible dodges/blocks like gw2.