Maugetarr.6823

So, Rifle is in a bit of a weird position. It's underpowered against people who understand thieves and can respond to them, and overpowered against newer players. Additionally, it gives up too much mobility without gaining a lot of utility, and the damage, while decent when kneeling, is initiative hungry. My idea is to change this weapon into more of a sustained damage weapon instead of a burst weapon, and basically have it flip back and forth between what would be "hip fire" and "aim down sight" in an FPS game. While you'd still lose the core steal because of Deadeye's mark, you'd hopefully gain some mobility while in the unshouldered mode with the rifle. Additionally, there's a lot more situational utility and hopefully better, less initiative hungry, sustained damage. It does have shorter range than currently while kneeling, but it has more piercing attacks as a tradeoff and the ability to move.

**Unshouldered weapon skills**

1) Auto Attack

Range: 750

Multiplier: 0.5

Cast Time: 0.25 (0.5 seconds shot to shot)

Piercing

Number of Targets: 5

Vulnerability: 1 (8 seconds)

Additional Vulnerability vs Marked Target: 2 (8 seconds)

Stealth Attack

Range: 750

Multiplier: 0.5

Cast Time: 0.25 seconds

Steal 1 Boon

Transfer 1 Condition

Unblokable

2) Skirmisher's Shot

Range: 750

Initiative: 3

Multiplier: 1.25

Cast Time: 0.5 seconds (0.75 seconds shot to shot)

Piercing

Number of Targets: 5

Cripple: 4 seconds

Vigor: 4 seconds

3) Strafing Shot

Range: 750

Initiative: 4

0.25 Multiplier

Cast time: 0.75 seconds, (interrupts other casts and pre/aftercasts)

Blur: 0.5 seconds

Swiftness: 5 seconds

4) Three Round Burst

Range: 750

Initiative: 5

1.65 Multiplier

Cast time: 0.75 seconds (1 second shot to shot)

Might Gain: 3 per hit (8 seconds)

Piercing

Number of Targets: 5

5) Shoulder Weapon

Initiative: 3

Stealth 3 seconds

Gain access to Shouldered Weapon Skills

**Shouldered Weapon Skills**

Movement speed capped at -66% (walking/chilled speed)

1) Deadly Aim

Range: 1500

Multiplier: 0.9

Cast time: 0.75 seconds (0. 9 seconds shot to shot)

Piercing

Number of Targets: 3

Vulnerability: 1 (8 seconds)

Additional Vulnerability vs Marked Target: 2 (8 seconds)

Stealth Attack

Range: 1500

Multiplier: 1.0

Cast time: 0.25 seconds

Steal 2 Boons

Transfer 2 conditions

Daze: 1 second

Unblockable

2) Spotter's Shot

Range: 1500

Initiative: 3

Multiplier:1.25

Cast Time: 0.5 seconds (0.75 seconds shot to shot time)

Immobilize target:1 second

Cripple: 5 seconds

Fury: 3 seconds per target hit

Piercing

Number of Targets: 3

3) Death's Retreat

Initiative: 4

Radius 180

Cast Time: 0.25 seconds (blind occurs at the beginning of the cast)

Shadowstep Backwards: 450

Number of Targets: 3

Blind: 5 seconds

Remove 1 damaging condition

4) Death's Judgement

Initiative: 5

Range: 1500

Cast Time: 0.75 seconds

Multiplier 1.5

Damage increase: 10% per stack of malice

Daze: 0.5 seconds

Quickness: 1.5 seconds +20% per stack of malice

Slow: 1.5 seconds +20% per stack of malice

Reveal Yourself

5) Run and Gun

Initiative: 0

Gain access to Unshouldered weapon skills

Reveal Yourself

Lose movement impairing conditions.

Gain Superspeed: 3 seconds

Black lion reward track? One ticket scrap and a possibly of a black lion key drop at the end at some relatively low chance. Might pull in the key farmers, and completing the track 10 times for a black lion ticket takes enough time that I wouldn't think it'd cause a massive hit to weapon price or gemstore sales.

Edit: As to PvP armor 2.5, as long as you guys keep sets without capes, skirts, or trench coats coming, this sounds good.

> @Levetty.1279 said:

> The bug has been fixed and that build is now the weakest dps build, why the hell have these people come here now?

Sorry, our forum may have "accidentally" planted the idea that he should stop complaining about us for a while and come over here instead.

> @Burnfall.9573 said:

> I just posted a video (benchmark) by a mesmer player in Mesmer thread (build included)

>

> Also

>

> Another video (benchmark) by a mesmer player (build included)

>

> (Both videos of mesmer= 45.6 dps)

>

> https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/14984/this-is-silly#latest

>

> **-Mesmer slowly catching up to thief- 50k-**

>

> (this is a demonstration of mesmer damage capability)

You know this was already nerfed, right? There was a bug where one of the attacks could hit the large hit box twice. They fixed it and I think it brought it down to the 29-31k dps range.

Read the patch notes.

> @Dethh.4620 said:

> While I think the points in my post and feedback from everyone here still stands, I'd really like to see something with a cameo like World of Warcraft did with Chuck Norris, Mr.T, etc. It's proven to do well on TV/online in bringing in new players in a more viral form. It would be really interesting to see something like this for GW2. I can just imagine a Game of Thrones actor doing a cameo.

Can... Can we get Peter Dinklage to play an asura? Or Sean Bean to play a GS warrior? Gwendolyn Christie as a norn guardian?

> @Burnfall.9573 said:

> > @Cynz.9437 said:

> > > @Burnfall.9573 said:

> > > Why doesn't anet like us?

> > >

> > > You have a dev who likes you and is keeping you in your toxic state.. I look forward to the new game director to put an end to your toxicity; for the well being of the game and for the community.

> > >

> > > by the way, have you seen your groundbreaking piece of work?

> > >

> > > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/17435/50k-hit-sad#latest

> > >

> > > Doesn't that say anything?

> >

> > Do you really think this is what thieves wanted lol?

>

> Not at all

>

> Few years ago, there was a Thief nerf thread created by a thief main player which consists of constructive suggestions to make thief competitive, fun and rewarding. That thread lasted a long time: hoping that Anet would take some suggestion by thief mains into consideration.

>

............

I'm almost speechless.

You know the thief nerf thread was a joke to collect the ridiculous suggestions of how to nerf thief we found while combing through the rest of the forums...

Please tell me you know that....

> @JustTrogdor.7892 said:

> Also aside from just cinematic show some actual game play. When I am shopping for games I see tons of epic cinematic views. That doesn't really show me how the game play looks though when I am in the game. So I then go to find player created videos that show what actual in game play looks like. I want to see what a fight looks like for real in game with all actual the in game graphics, effects etc. So maybe throw in a few seconds from an actual in game legendary bounty fight or something like that.

This is what I was thinking. Show a boss or big mob cinematic, then show a dodge from player perspective against a well telegraphed boss hit. Then another npc cinematic followed by a big flashy attack from a player perspective against a mob. You guys have a pretty slick combat system and I think you can showcase that and new content hand in hand. Focus on some PoF skills in particular and it might sell to new and returning players simultaneously. Mix up between solo, 5 player, and 10 player scenes to show off some different aspects too.

Edit: I guess another way to put it is I don't buy a game for cut scenes, I buy it for gameplay. Some games have awesome cutscenes/graphics and an alright story, but the gameplay is horrible. Use the gameplay/mechanics (I.e. 99% of what you're doing in the game) with a story hook at the beginning and end, then show how much fun it is to get there.

> @Frozenblade.6039 said:

> It seems everybody is ok with the thief. Except thief, every class have a lot of ideas, all the time.

> There is no negative or positive feedback, very strange.

In the thief forums there's a lot of suggestions on the core class and lately rifle/Deadeye. Some thieves are annoyed that thief has trouble in a teamfight and sometimes feel relegated to a decap/+1 role. I think the limiting factor is highly dependent on specific builds you're fighting, some being a match up that favors thief and some being a massive uphill struggle for the thief. The favorability of the match-up is highly dependent on the thief's skill relative to the opponent without many autoprocs to carry bad plays (at least that are actually used). So generally speaking, I think thief is decently balanced right now. There's one good meta build, a couple of more mediocre meta builds, and some decent off meta builds all accomodating various skill floors and ceilings. Without a nerf to mobility or a buff to another class's mobility (think revenant before it was nerfed) I don't see it getting completely pushed out.

There are a fair number of complaints about Deadeye, or rather Death's Judgement, because the skill can make the rifle swing between undertuned and overturned by significant margins without much in between depending on build and the opponent's ability to read the tells.

> @babazhook.6805 said:

> Were DJ damage to be lowered, the only way the Rifle could work would be if there LESS warning of incoming attacks when used against another.. All other damage across the set and or utility would have to be increased or there absolutely no reason to use the set. Were this to happen that thief would likely be even more dangerous to those that think they should not have to dodge attacks. This would be better for the thief in the long run but the complaints would still be there .

I would actually be up for them removing DJ entirely in its current form and making all the skills on rifle scale with malice. Slight damage boosts to the skills at maybe 1.5% per stack of malice and having the condi durations on skills also scale with malice at 10% per stack. With the removal of DJ in it's current format, they could work in some more survivability and sustained damage rather than burst damage, like it is now, differentiating it from pistols in the process.

However, I don't think if DJ were eliminated that there would be sufficient compensation to sustain which is why I haven't advocated for that avenue.

The only other way they might be able to do it is make DJ unable to crit and raise the multiplier so they can control the range of damage much more closely. In addition, they could switch DJ for cursed bullet so you could only try once per stealth, although this would require more damage being pushed to the other skills to keep the sustained damage up.

> @kash.9213 said:

> > @Burnfall.9573 said:

> > > @kash.9213 said:

> > > > @Burnfall.9573 said:

> > > > Back than, thief used to have this one competition thread about who has the highest damage. I wouldn't be surprised if Anet is keeping scores of how high thief damage can go up to

> > >

> > > No one is keeping score on something almost no one cares about. These troll threads should stay in the WvW forums where most people also don't care except for the couple of people still getting one shot by one of the worst builds out there. I'll allow it though, maybe if you cry enough the devs will actually take a close look at DE and they'll say "DJ is fine even if that poor kitten keeps getting killed by it over and over but look at this other stuff we over looked that we can fix now".

> >

> > 'these troll threads'

> >

> > let me ask you a question, what are your basis of a competitive game play as a thief?

> >

> > Than

> >

> > compare it with us who want a healthy, fun, risk+reward competitive environment?

> >

> > Who is the one trolling?

> >

> > who is the one who has the right to complain?

> >

> > Complaining about having the Right To Fair, Fun and Risk and Rewarding Competition, Is That Wrong?

> >

> > If we are to be silence, than, it's your lost.

> >

> > (by the way, you know the casualties of silencing customers complains right?)

> >

> > **They Leave**

> > **Silently**

> >

> >

>

> I don't care what they do to DJ, put an 8k cap on it and let it pierce or something, no one really cares about the skill and that's why no one really bothers to defend it. It was thieves from this forum who contributed suggestions and testing in the WvW forum that were pretty reasonable and it seemed most in that thread agreed. Why not bump that thread with good suggestions so the devs might see it growing instead of raging here that this class is out of control. That skill is already underused and nearly always blocked or interrupted, just saying it needs to do less damage doesn't help balance the skill, it has to be worth using and damage doesn't have to be the reason. You're a broken record and it gets old and the saddest part is most of us agree with the op for the most part but you're still stuck screaming at everyone.

If it's the thread I'm thinking of, we went through the math and everything. Even though it's roughly the same (slightly less actually) multiplier as kill shot, it ends up dealing more damage because of damage modifiers. It's because of the damage equations and they can't really do a straight damage nerf without making it useless for 99% of the builds.

Nothing concrete, but it's something.

> @"Faux Play.6104" said:

> I think > @Maugetarr.6823 said:

> > > @"Faux Play.6104" said:

> > > > @Maugetarr.6823 said:

> > > > > @Swagg.9236 said:

> > > > > > @Maugetarr.6823 said:

> > > > > > It seems like the same thread just pops up over and over again.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Just a question to those who want it nerfed: what multiplier do you think DJ should have to make it balanced well?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I'm not asking for a maximum damage value, but for the multiplier.

> > > > >

> > > > > Things like DJ are not "fixable" by just moving numbers around. DJ is part of a pervasive GW2 syndrome of effortless, no-risk attacks. It's bad on a fundamental design level, not on a "let's change this number to make it better" level.

> > > >

> > > > Alright, what mechanics does rifle have that should be changed to make rifle competitive, rewarding, but risky at the same time?

> > >

> > > Every weapon doesn't need to be viable in every game mode.

> >

> > Ok, but then what mechanics are overperforming right now in PvP that should be nerfed?

>

> Instant cast skills. Some classes have too many of them.

>

> Fast health regen when you drop combat.

>

> Overall I think damage is a little too high, but I'd rather have that then healing/defense being too strong.

So not necessarily rifle, or thief, but across the board cuts. If every class were going to be nerfed simultaneously, I wouldn't care too much about it, but these threads tend to pop up on thief and mesmer specifically. For the most part, I'd rather not see most classes nerfed specifically at this point. I wouldn't mind a change to the ramp time of condi, but on a skill by skill basis, I don't think the overall damage is too high.

I think we actually agree on the damage over bunker part.

> @"Faux Play.6104" said:

> > @Maugetarr.6823 said:

> > > @Swagg.9236 said:

> > > > @Maugetarr.6823 said:

> > > > It seems like the same thread just pops up over and over again.

> > > >

> > > > Just a question to those who want it nerfed: what multiplier do you think DJ should have to make it balanced well?

> > > >

> > > > I'm not asking for a maximum damage value, but for the multiplier.

> > >

> > > Things like DJ are not "fixable" by just moving numbers around. DJ is part of a pervasive GW2 syndrome of effortless, no-risk attacks. It's bad on a fundamental design level, not on a "let's change this number to make it better" level.

> >

> > Alright, what mechanics does rifle have that should be changed to make rifle competitive, rewarding, but risky at the same time?

>

> Every weapon doesn't need to be viable in every game mode.

Ok, but then what mechanics are overperforming right now in PvP that should be nerfed?

> @MUDse.7623 said:

> > @Maugetarr.6823 said:

> > > @Sojourner.4621 said:

> > > To be honest my biggest complaint is that now that Death's Judgement only does its bonus damage to your marked target, it is far too easily wasted by someone wandering in to your line of sight and taking the hit over the marked target... or someone doing it on purpose of course. My own thought was lower the base damage (I am sure this will be an unpopular opinion), increase the marked target damage per malice stack (making it equal the same damage overall) and make it pierce all enemies on the way to your marked target, only dealing its bonus damage to the marked one, and base to the enemies it pierces. This makes it not such a huge initiative waste and risk to actually use DJ, and helps eliminate some concerns regarding the pierce making it do too much overall damage.

> > >

> >

> > It'd be nice if they kept the current animations, but mechanically rifle attacks (all of them) worked like mesmer GS autos. Don't know if they have the control in the engine to do it, but maybe attacks that pass through opponents on their way to the target (By targeted, I don't mean marked, but mean the player you're firing at) do only 50% damage to the players they pass through and only apply their conditions to the targeted player. It'd be nice to have a piercing weapon.

> >

> >

>

> you do know that mesmer auto is not a projectile? so you would eliminate projectile reflect and projectile absorb as a defemsive measure against DE.

> mesmer auto is a 'beam' like druid staff auto or ele scpter air auto. you see a beam and know that you cant reflect it. now with the way you want it you will see a projectile but it is a beam, that wont be implemented. you can make each animation get that laser beam from DJ, then it might work. but you will then have a harder time to identify DJ from the other shots so it will need another tell as according to the flame in forums here there arent enough already.

I understand the beam isn't a projectile, which is why I suggested it. As to animations, a dark beam with a flash along it before damage is applied would differentiate it from the bright red beam of Death's Judgement. Blocks, invulns, evades, and dodges would still work. The idea is to give rifle a unique niche, and if it's intended to apply most damage to a single target, a beam mechanic that has severely reduced damage against enemies that aren't the primary target would be a better way to go than piercing projectiles imo.

> @Sojourner.4621 said:

> To be honest my biggest complaint is that now that Death's Judgement only does its bonus damage to your marked target, it is far too easily wasted by someone wandering in to your line of sight and taking the hit over the marked target... or someone doing it on purpose of course. My own thought was lower the base damage (I am sure this will be an unpopular opinion), increase the marked target damage per malice stack (making it equal the same damage overall) and make it pierce all enemies on the way to your marked target, only dealing its bonus damage to the marked one, and base to the enemies it pierces. This makes it not such a huge initiative waste and risk to actually use DJ, and helps eliminate some concerns regarding the pierce making it do too much overall damage.

>

It'd be nice if they kept the current animations, but mechanically rifle attacks (all of them) worked like mesmer GS autos. Don't know if they have the control in the engine to do it, but maybe attacks that pass through opponents on their way to the target (By targeted, I don't mean marked, but mean the player you're firing at) do only 50% damage to the players they pass through and only apply their conditions to the targeted player. It'd be nice to have a piercing weapon.

> @Cynz.9437 said:

> > @Maugetarr.6823 said:

> > > @Swagg.9236 said:

> > > > @Maugetarr.6823 said:

> > > > It seems like the same thread just pops up over and over again.

> > > >

> > > > Just a question to those who want it nerfed: what multiplier do you think DJ should have to make it balanced well?

> > > >

> > > > I'm not asking for a maximum damage value, but for the multiplier.

> > >

> > > Things like DJ are not "fixable" by just moving numbers around. DJ is part of a pervasive GW2 syndrome of effortless, no-risk attacks. It's bad on a fundamental design level, not on a "let's change this number to make it better" level.

> >

> > Alright, what mechanics does rifle have that should be changed to make rifle competitive, rewarding, but risky at the same time?

>

> Complete revamp lol.

> I personally wished rifle thief like Ana support from OW. Use weapon to support teammates and yourself from a far.

I can understand that rifle doesn't appeal to people because they went widowmaker instead of Ana, but that comes down to a playstyle preference.

I guess I should rephrase, what mechanics are currently overperforming on rifle which could be changed so the risk vs. reward ratio is higher?

> @Swagg.9236 said:

> > @Maugetarr.6823 said:

> > It seems like the same thread just pops up over and over again.

> >

> > Just a question to those who want it nerfed: what multiplier do you think DJ should have to make it balanced well?

> >

> > I'm not asking for a maximum damage value, but for the multiplier.

>

> Things like DJ are not "fixable" by just moving numbers around. DJ is part of a pervasive GW2 syndrome of effortless, no-risk attacks. It's bad on a fundamental design level, not on a "let's change this number to make it better" level.

Alright, what mechanics does rifle have that should be changed to make rifle competitive, rewarding, but risky at the same time?

It seems like the same thread just pops up over and over again.

Just a question to those who want it nerfed: what multiplier do you think DJ should have to make it balanced well?

I'm not asking for a maximum damage value, but for the multiplier.

> @Burnfall.9573 said:

> > @Maugetarr.6823 said:

> > > @Burnfall.9573 said:

> > > > @FaboBabo.3581 said:

> > > > > @Burnfall.9573 said:

> > > > > That was a miss post but i'll answer it anyway. The point to that post was to demonstrate a new player experience being 1 shotted. This new player was astounded by the damage he/she received by the thief.

> > > > >

> > > > > This should Never be a acceptable to a competitive game. So the new player complaints to social about his/her negative experience to social media in return, social media will spread the news to other media outlets...with evidence

> > > > >

> > > > > **Great way to promote a game to a new player hugh!!**

> > > >

> > > > Dude that's nonesense. Let's take this example into other games/even Real life.

> > > > League of Legends.

> > > > Lv 18 Champion without items vs Lv 18 Champion with 6 Items. - Who's gonna win ?

> > > > Counter Strike one Player without any Weapon , the other Player has an Ak 47 with infinite Ammo. - Who's gonna win?

> > > > A 12 year old boy vs a 22 year old Profi Boxer. - Who's gonna win?

> > > > Take ur lvl 1 Char in lv 80 area - get one shoted by lvl 80 PvE mobs -> PvE Mobs too stronk , stupid game , cant do lvl 80 content with lvl 1

> > > >

> > > > Outside of the oneshot Topic.

> > > >

> > > >**90% of you didn't play Mesmer for at least 200 houres. It's so obvious that most people have literally no clue about the class. Instead of whining every day in Forums, take ur time, create a Mesmer, and learn it**

> > >

> > > whose 90%? By the way, i've played more than 200 hours on each classes, so don't even go there. And please do not speak for everyone, thanks

> > > secondly, the following points are ridiculous because you and i know that age and level has nothing to do with a bad design.

> > >

> > > In fact: i will show you this...since you refuse to stay focus on topic

> > >

> > > Sep 7, 2012

> > >

> > >

> > > first time player playing thief: 'kitten is this class', 'I don't even know what i did', 'i never killed anyone so fast in my warrior', 'i'm going thief man kitten warrior', 'he died in 0.1 seconds--laughing+scratching head in disbelief', 'oh my god he died instantly...,i don't know what i'm doing'

> > >

> > > Even his colleagues are laughing at this. Did you also noticed how shocked he was after killing a guardian? A tank c;lass so easily? a class whose designed to excell in defence?

> > >

> > > i'll leave it there. So....what do u have to say now?

> > >

> > > Experience or not: the matter remains, thief and mesmer requires no effort, hard-work or risks whatsoever to be efficient.

> > >

> > > The verdict stands, 1 shotting is toxic, non competitive and unhealthy for the duration of the game

> >

> > You should have a disclaimer on your post telling people that it's from the week after the game was released instead of pretending nerfs to quickness, ferocity, and pistol whip didn't happen in the mean time if you're going to use them as evidence... Not to mention he died just as fast when focused. His targets also died to svanir and you can hear his friends commenting on how bad the they are.

> >

>

> pretending? did i mention anything about pretending? did you bother to read my previous posts as to why i posted this video?

>

>

You don't have to mention it, but don't post a comment about current damage in game and include a video from game launch where everything in it allowing for the burst damage has been nerfed while complaining the devs never nerf anything. I do read your posts, and I think the conclusions you reach aren't well founded because you lay all your complaints at the feet of thief and mesmer. While I actually don't think damage is too high in this game, if you think it is, you should be looking at the damage formulas, not a specific class. The multiplicative damage modifiers allow for hits to be about 4.2 times higher than their base damage, making any nerfs to a single skill or class moot because any hit about the strength of an auto attack could hit people for half their health with the proper setup.

> @Burnfall.9573 said:

> > @FaboBabo.3581 said:

> > > @Burnfall.9573 said:

> > > That was a miss post but i'll answer it anyway. The point to that post was to demonstrate a new player experience being 1 shotted. This new player was astounded by the damage he/she received by the thief.

> > >

> > > This should Never be a acceptable to a competitive game. So the new player complaints to social about his/her negative experience to social media in return, social media will spread the news to other media outlets...with evidence

> > >

> > > **Great way to promote a game to a new player hugh!!**

> >

> > Dude that's nonesense. Let's take this example into other games/even Real life.

> > League of Legends.

> > Lv 18 Champion without items vs Lv 18 Champion with 6 Items. - Who's gonna win ?

> > Counter Strike one Player without any Weapon , the other Player has an Ak 47 with infinite Ammo. - Who's gonna win?

> > A 12 year old boy vs a 22 year old Profi Boxer. - Who's gonna win?

> > Take ur lvl 1 Char in lv 80 area - get one shoted by lvl 80 PvE mobs -> PvE Mobs too stronk , stupid game , cant do lvl 80 content with lvl 1

> >

> > Outside of the oneshot Topic.

> >

> >**90% of you didn't play Mesmer for at least 200 houres. It's so obvious that most people have literally no clue about the class. Instead of whining every day in Forums, take ur time, create a Mesmer, and learn it**

>

> whose 90%? By the way, i've played more than 200 hours on each classes, so don't even go there. And please do not speak for everyone, thanks

> secondly, the following points are ridiculous because you and i know that age and level has nothing to do with a bad design.

>

> In fact: i will show you this...since you refuse to stay focus on topic

>

> Sep 7, 2012

>

>

> first time player playing thief: 'kitten is this class', 'I don't even know what i did', 'i never killed anyone so fast in my warrior', 'i'm going thief man kitten warrior', 'he died in 0.1 seconds--laughing+scratching head in disbelief', 'oh my god he died instantly...,i don't know what i'm doing'

>

> Even his colleagues are laughing at this. Did you also noticed how shocked he was after killing a guardian? A tank c;lass so easily? a class whose designed to excell in defence?

>

> i'll leave it there. So....what do u have to say now?

>

> Experience or not: the matter remains, thief and mesmer requires no effort, hard-work or risks whatsoever to be efficient.

>

> The verdict stands, 1 shotting is toxic, non competitive and unhealthy for the duration of the game

You should have a disclaimer on your post telling people that it's from the week after the game was released instead of pretending nerfs to quickness, ferocity, and pistol whip didn't happen in the mean time if you're going to use them as evidence... Not to mention he died just as fast when focused. His targets also died to svanir and you can hear his friends commenting on how bad the they are.

> @Burnfall.9573 said:

> **A sad testimony from a new player being 1 shotted with link**

> -thief. mes....what is the difference?

>

> 'Hi everyone

> I am a fairly new player, at the moment just trying out different professions before deciding which I want to commit to.

> WvW / PvP is my main interest so I tried out some EotM to start off with. Then I tried out one of the real WvW maps and had some slightly worrying experiences which involved me getting (almost literally) one shot.

> The first time was a 5v1, we were chasing down this almost dead guy to finish him off. I was on about 80% hp, he turned around and one shot me with an 11k crit.

> The next time I was playing near the back of a zerg group, I was at full hp. Out of nowhere I am downed before I can even comprehend what happened, with a thief running away from my body. He backstabbed me for around 90% of my hp.

> Since then it has happened a few more times.

> The characters this happened on (thief and ele) are only around level 35. I know upscaled characters are not as powerful as true 80s, but this is a bit worrying. I am practising evading attacks more effectively, but these examples happened before I could even react. Is there something else I am doing wrong, or should it stop happening when I get closer to level 80?

> Thanks for any help'

>

>

Wait, a level 35 upscaled playing on a thief and mesmer got 1 shot and that's your evidence that thief and mesmer are too powerful?

> Ah yes, because qtfy dps list is what counts in determining if the class is good, give me a break :D

Well, it objectively shows the damage is there

>

> Yes, it does need "some tweaks", because currently it's a bad spec.

I'd argue it's not bad, it's just clunky. The damage is there, but it needs some polishing of how the damage is delivered through some mechanical changes.

> @Sobx.1758 said:

> > @Zacchary.6183 said:

> > > @Sobx.1758 said:

> > > > @Zacchary.6183 said:

> > > > > @Sobx.1758 said:

> > > > > > @Zacchary.6183 said:

> > > > > > > @Sobx.1758 said:

> > > > > > > That's a fact, don't start this crap again :D

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I'm asking people to prove it. If they can't, it isn't fact.

> > > > >

> > > > > It was proven over and over again, you're either trolling or... you probably know what already.

> > > >

> > > > All I am seeing is opinion. Literally the only people who have actually shown any data in this entire forum is Urejt and I.

> > >

> > > Showing raw data isn't what you need to judge the class, adding damage numbers or listing all traits as if you could use all of them and claiming that's why the class is strong is just plain wrong way to do it and serves only as an illusion of """evidence""" for usefullness of the spec. You like adding numbers, ok, but it didn't show or prove a thing.

> >

> > Showing raw data is the best way to judge anything. Opinion and preference means nothing.

>

> No, it's not and you didn't do anything to prove it's a good spec.

It is one of the few power specs to make the qtfy dps list, with just a couple of percent of staff daredevil.

https://qtfy.eu/guildwars/benchmarks-path-of-fire/

That said, Deadeye needs some mechanical tweaks to traits, marking, and rifle before I think it'll be a strong alternative in each game mode, but I wouldn't necessarily consider it weak. It is under performing for PvP, but numerically, it hit the DPS mark where the devs have said they think meta builds should be in PvE. Basically Deadeye didn't get powercreeped while a lot of other things did.

@"dDuff.3860" Played tonight with a build very close to yours. Lot of fun. People don't expect the double steal.