Maugetarr.6823

Alternative:

Make Deathblossom a skill shot the same way warrior's GS3 works. First, this reduces the spamability of condi D/D as you'd have to aim and not all strikes may hit if you don't line the skill up right. Second, it adds utility to power D/D. It could be used for repositioning, dodging, and escaping better.

The next thing could be to modify Dancing Dagger to be a single target skill that when it hits, you get a rollover skill that's an instant cast shadowstep to your target that deals no damage, but blinds the opponent. Now D/D has some ability to chase, and can do a CnD-Port or BS-Port outside of having steal off cool down. The most this does is give S/D a mildly redundant ability while vastly improving the mobility of D/D, and increases defense when stunned in a 1v1 with the instant cast blind, without being spammable.

Neither of these suggestions helps D/P.

> @Jinks.2057 said:

> > @Jana.6831 said:

> > > @Vornollo.5182 said:

> > > Nerfing D/P will just leave us without viable options for PvP and WvW.

> > > To think that after such nerfs, other weapon sets would get buffed to a viable status is naïve at best.

> > > They have been buffing other weapons, actually (largely S/x and Acro) but simply to no real effect. Not because they're terrible by design, but largely (not entirely, mind you!) because with the powercreep affecting the entire game, they have no place against other professions /classes/builds.

> > > Sorry to burst your bubbles, but the fault isn't with D/P, it's with the entire direction that this game took.

> > >

> > > Sorry for going off-topic. This thread is about Unhindered Combatant, nothing else. Maybe make a new thread if you wish to kitten about weapons.

> >

> > The recent nerfs to thief which killed other sets were forced reveal (e.g). Can D/P bypass that? Yes, it can with SS, BP, AA, interrupts. The stealth attack cooldown (e.g). Can D/P bypass that? Yes, with SS, AA, BP and interrupts. Do you get where I'm getting at? D/P can still get all the favours of being in stealth, while they don't rely on it - they have been pigeonholed into one playstyle because of the changes but can still sustain because D/P is that strong. Yet the NERF cries won't stop and the people crying that don't get that they want one set to be nerfed and not thief the class. Yet thief the class gets nerfed over and over again while D/P still remains. UC is a problem for maybe D/P and S/D, but I guess it's less of a problem for D/P and hey, we're right at the topic again. I think you're naive if you think that "other sets just have to be buffed", but alas.

>

> which skill on DP removes reveal? I'm confused? Which skill removes the CD on 1 while stealthed? Still confused.

>

> a net is not going to nerf a weaponset and buff another.

>

> No what'll happen is you will now have zero viable sets.

>

> D/D is a LOW skill weapon set. What makes it not viable is the power creep of the game has passed it by. Not viable does not mean higher skill floor/ceiling.

>

> I'm tired of reading about D/D enthusiasts complaining about other weapon sets. Do you think the rest of the game is asking for nerfs to thieves to affect everything but d/d?

>

> kitten no they are chanting NERF THIEF.

>

> I play all weapon sets that thief has. I have used D/D and had great success with it. It was mind-numbingly skilless gameplay though. Funny thing is though most of the enthusiasts can't find their 3 key or understand when to use it lol.

>

> You don't goto other class forums and read this type of kitten either. Everyone here is thieves and everyone should focus on how to make thief as a whole better/balanced....not your pet weapon sets

Well, Condi D/D is pretty low in terms of skill level, but Power D/D isn't since it lacks the utility of other weapon sets and #3 is pretty bad power damage. I'd still like them to make D/D a skill shot similar to warrior GS#3, raising the skill floor of condi D/D and increasing the utility of power D/D.

>Moving forward we'll be aiming changes to bring a bit more parity between the options through the ramp time and using that to emphasize some of the differences. That said, a fundamental issue is that foes whose health pools allow them to survive a significant amount of time (beyond the point of condition stack ramping) are going to favor condition builds unless they specifically have mechanics which deal with conditions.

Well if they say they're listening to suggestions about conditions, specifically the ramp:

Bleed: Cut damage per tick in half, double the duration

Burning: Cut damage in half, double the duration

Poison: Cut damage per tick by 33%, extend duration by 50%

Torment: Cut damage by 33%, extend duration by 50%

Confusion: Cut damage per tick and ability by 33%, extend duration by 50%.

Total damage is kept the same per ability

Damage×Duration=1

1/2Damage×2/1Duration=1

2/3Damage×3/2Duration=1

Movement and dodging should break the kneel. If an opponent can force you dodge and break your kneel, I think that's actually a decent counterplay mechanic. Sniper's Cover baseline, but at 2 initiative, free action at 1 initiative, which would remove the movement impairing conditions, but you wouldn't be forced to use it to stand up. A roll could be added in place of 3RB so you have an ability that would allow you to stay kneeling, but evade. Move 3RB into Double Tap's place. There's not enough damage while standing, and 3RB/DJ compete with each other while kneeling. Those things would hopefully harmonize rifle instead of having it fight with itself.

> @Volrath.1473 said:

> Atm im playing deadeye with S/P and man... I'm having so much fun!

> I can imagine the surprise when they jump me thinking I'm a sniper and a easy kill and I switch to S/P and melt their faces!

> Wen I get home I'll link my build.

>

> Edit: so [THIS](http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAU8ankFDFOh1FDmOBUGjFqCzLD8BGAd9kAwBgPQWIfkA-jZxHQBE8hAokyAA4IAEwLAg42fAA "THIS") is my sPvP spec.

>

> Depending no my oposite team i switch between Instant Reflexes and Pain Response.

It's nice to see others trying to make S/X Acro-Deadeye work. If the mark had reduced cast time, I think they could play really well with each other.

> @MUDse.7623 said:

> > @Maugetarr.6823 said:

> > > @MUDse.7623 said:

> > > > @babazhook.6805 said:

> > > > I wonder if it would be better if malice worked a bit more like Adrenaline.

> > > >

> > > > Malice that is built up starts an abrubt decay when it expires or when the mark changed . IE at the 25 second point rather then dropping from max to zero instantly you get a rapid decay that halts as soon as you re-mark an enemy. Same on death or a mercy reset. I am not talking many seconds here either. it will be relatively quick as in if you do not re-establish another mark in say 2 seconds all malice gone. in 1 second you lose half of it and so on.

> > > >

> > > > Obviously this means if a person quick enough they can use mercy and reset to another target where some of that malice carries over so I am not sure as yo how that will play out.

> > >

> > > i think that will push DEs also into trickery cause without it you will jave 25s duration on 30s cd and it will decay but with trickery you can then keep it up. so mark duration needs an increase aswell then.

> > >

> > > > @Maugetarr.6823 said:

> > > > I was hoping they would do this too, however with how they changed Death's Judgement, I don't think they'll make the change that way because they want that damage to build per target, meaning malice has to reset per target. I think reducing the time to build to maximum malice would hit the sweet spot between how long it currently takes to build per target in a teamfight and modifying it to be more like adrenaline.

> > >

> > > the main issue was people getting oneshot 'out of nowhere' this change sadly also has made it important that you ensure nobody is running into the bullet, wich is pretty hard in groupfights. keeping the malice i think is not the problem as the people will still be marked + obvious DJ tell.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Maybe they could make it actually a spell where the animation looks like a shot and the damage just casts on your target at the end? I dunno, damage is pretty weak if it's not your marked target, so maybe it could pierce instead if they're worried about projectile destruction not functioning on it anymore too.

>

> well ..piercing on DJ will cause alot of nerfs that i dont want :D

Yeah, that's why I thought of a cast ability first. Even though the damage would be roughly the same as 3RB, it probably would get complaints.

Edit: Thinking about it, and not really a criticism of the design of rifle, I wish flavor wise all the skills would have been cast and not use projectiles. Sorta like you use shadow magic to shadowstep your bullets to the target right after they leave the barrel. http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/TR-116_rifle

> @MUDse.7623 said:

> > @babazhook.6805 said:

> > I wonder if it would be better if malice worked a bit more like Adrenaline.

> >

> > Malice that is built up starts an abrubt decay when it expires or when the mark changed . IE at the 25 second point rather then dropping from max to zero instantly you get a rapid decay that halts as soon as you re-mark an enemy. Same on death or a mercy reset. I am not talking many seconds here either. it will be relatively quick as in if you do not re-establish another mark in say 2 seconds all malice gone. in 1 second you lose half of it and so on.

> >

> > Obviously this means if a person quick enough they can use mercy and reset to another target where some of that malice carries over so I am not sure as yo how that will play out.

>

> i think that will push DEs also into trickery cause without it you will jave 25s duration on 30s cd and it will decay but with trickery you can then keep it up. so mark duration needs an increase aswell then.

>

> > @Maugetarr.6823 said:

> > I was hoping they would do this too, however with how they changed Death's Judgement, I don't think they'll make the change that way because they want that damage to build per target, meaning malice has to reset per target. I think reducing the time to build to maximum malice would hit the sweet spot between how long it currently takes to build per target in a teamfight and modifying it to be more like adrenaline.

>

> the main issue was people getting oneshot 'out of nowhere' this change sadly also has made it important that you ensure nobody is running into the bullet, wich is pretty hard in groupfights. keeping the malice i think is not the problem as the people will still be marked + obvious DJ tell.

>

>

Maybe they could make it actually a spell where the animation looks like a shot and the damage just casts on your target at the end? I dunno, damage is pretty weak if it's not your marked target, so maybe it could pierce instead if they're worried about projectile destruction not functioning on it anymore too.

> @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:

> The Malice rate can be faster, that's for sure. However, Rifle damage and skill cost need to be adjusted.

Yeah, Rifle needs adjustments as I've mentioned in other threads, but I wanted to make suggestions to make it a viable trait line for other weapon sets first via 2 small adjustments, then rifle can be addressed.

> @babazhook.6805 said:

> I wonder if it would be better if malice worked a bit more like Adrenaline.

>

> Malice that is built up starts an abrubt decay when it expires or when the mark changed . IE at the 25 second point rather then dropping from max to zero instantly you get a rapid decay that halts as soon as you re-mark an enemy. Same on death or a mercy reset. I am not talking many seconds here either. it will be relatively quick as in if you do not re-establish another mark in say 2 seconds all malice gone. in 1 second you lose half of it and so on.

>

> Obviously this means if a person quick enough they can use mercy and reset to another target where some of that malice carries over so I am not sure as yo how that will play out.

I was hoping they would do this too, however with how they changed Death's Judgement, I don't think they'll make the change that way because they want that damage to build per target, meaning malice has to reset per target. I think reducing the time to build to maximum malice would hit the sweet spot between how long it currently takes to build per target in a teamfight and modifying it to be more like adrenaline.

> @Elxdark.9702 said:

> > @Maugetarr.6823 said:

> > > @Elxdark.9702 said:

> > > OR they could give us malice stacks through traits/cantrips. A good example is revealed malice.

> > >

> > > That way is much more interactive and interesting than just increase the rate which imo will not help.

> > > Mark needs to be faster next patch.

> >

> > That could also work, but I'm a little worried about the difference between minimum and maximum malice gain shoehorning us into specific trait and utility choices which may eventually lead to an overall reduction in malice generation. I'm basing this off of how initiative generation was a few years ago where certain builds could generate a lot of initiative and others were very weak in initiative generation, so eventually they brought up the bottom and cut the top. I'm trying to avoid that sort of situation again.

>

> Good point.

>

> Also one thing they should really do is make proc the malice as soon as you mark your target, so you get 1 malice as soon as you mark and you get the 2nd malice when your first attack hits, I think that would be much better than increasing the rate.

> I don't know but I have always thought it was bugged maybe it's intended but personally I think the malice feels so slow because you don't get the stack as soon as you mark/hit, you actually need to wait for the 4/2 seconds to stack malice which is really stupid.

That's a good idea too, but they probably wouldn't be able to do both at the same time or else the patience aspect they were aiming for would be lost. I think either would be fine though.

> @hugo.4705 said:

> Yeah definitly rifle need change, I just made an experiment, and go fighting an hydra. My most powerfull try against her was with ranger Axe/dagger, after him, holosmith Sword/Shield, then Necro Dagger/Dagger and the worst one Deadeye with rifle taking so long to kill her. The riffle appear very weak to me, don't know if it's not enough powerfull (I should say, I have a berserker set) or the lack of advantages. The mechanic in herself is slow, kneeling then sniper mark then skill 4/5 then normal skills.. Not good dps. Don't know about ranger, I want to say even longbow ranger is better than deadeye. It's for that I actually stick my thief with dagger/dagger. A ton of conditions.

Well, longbow ranger has a 0.9 coefficient at the longest range, a 0.7 coefficient on the closest, and 3.75 on rapid fire @ 2.5 seconds channel. So without lead the wind it's 0.9, 0.7, and 1.5 multiplier per second for those 3 things. With lead the wind, those all pierce, and longbow attacks faster, so they become 0.99, 0.77, 1.65 mult/sec respectively.

Thief has 0.8 (kneeling), 0.6 (standing) and 1.65 on 3RB. At an attack rate of 0.92 seconds per auto, and 1 second for 3RB, that puts us at 0.65, 0.87, and 1.65 mult/sec for each skill respectively. I think we should be brought up to on par with Ranger longbow, which would need a reduction in aftercast for the autos, letting the autos pierce, and moving 3RB to the standing #3. If they reduce the aftercast so that the shot to shot time was 0.85 seconds, our coefficient would be 0.94 and 0.705 mult/sec, just about on the same as ranger longbow. In place of 3RB on the kneel, I'd recommend a backwards roll for 4 initiative, 0.5 seconds evade, and a total cast time of 0.75 seconds. Those 4 things could bring rifle up to a competitive state (imo).

> @Elxdark.9702 said:

> OR they could give us malice stacks through traits/cantrips. A good example is revealed malice.

>

> That way is much more interactive and interesting than just increase the rate which imo will not help.

> Mark needs to be faster next patch.

That could also work, but I'm a little worried about the difference between minimum and maximum malice gain shoehorning us into specific trait and utility choices which may eventually lead to an overall reduction in malice generation. I'm basing this off of how initiative generation was a few years ago where certain builds could generate a lot of initiative and others were very weak in initiative generation, so eventually they brought up the bottom and cut the top. I'm trying to avoid that sort of situation again.

@"Robert Gee.9246" @"Karl McLain.5604"

Now that you guys have had more time to look at it, have you thought about bringing the malice generation rate up a bit? I was thinking maybe 1 stack every 1.5/3 seconds for attacking/not attacking. This would put it at 7.5 seconds for the base and ~7.88 seconds for M7. Since you lose malice when switching targets, and Death's Judgement can only do big damage to your marked target now, it seemed like it would help Deadeye in teamfights a bit better.

Also, while I'm fine with the mark having a cast time, could you guys test out a 0.25 second cast time so it can be used for counterplay (when traited) on 0.75 second cast time abilities like eviscerate and heartseeker. It'd still require really fast reflexes to catch the cast, and I don't think the marked skills are so overwhelming that they warrant that long of a cast time, even though they are instant cast. You could increase the aftercast to make the overall time the same, but basically move the time the mark actually applies forward slightly.

Thanks

> @Asur.9178 said:

> > @Maugetarr.6823 said:

> > I sorta wish they'd revert the gamewide vigor nerf. With all the damage flying around, it would be a boost to all of the evasive classes. ~~Feline grace~~ Endless stamina (RIP FG returning 15 endurance, 2012-2015) might have to lose the vigor being more effective part (or maybe reduced to 20%) but that might help with the pvp survivability since damage has slowly crept up while active defenses have been reduced over the past 5 years.

>

> Yes, please do that so I can kitten on players even easier as mirage.

Well, the idea would be to tone down the dodge traits of mirage and DD. Since Acro was weakened considerably to make room for DD, basically the endurance regen traits would need to be moved back, and the utilities, traits, and staff attacks probably revisited. Similarly, mirage would have to see adjustments also based on the increased regen.

But, probably not gonna happen anytime soon/ever.

I sorta wish they'd revert the gamewide vigor nerf. With all the damage flying around, it would be a boost to all of the evasive classes. ~~Feline grace~~ Endless stamina (RIP FG returning 15 endurance, 2012-2015) might have to lose the vigor being more effective part (or maybe reduced to 20%) but that might help with the pvp survivability since damage has slowly crept up while active defenses have been reduced over the past 5 years.

Haven't tested the actual dps against a golem, but, in pvp, tooltip is unchanged from before and after patch.

> @"Karl McLain.5604" said:

> _1) What was the reasoning behind the change to Unhindered Combatant?_

> **"One important balance change in this update is the change to Unhindered Combatant. While thieves, and by extension daredevils, are intended to be slippery combatants, the escape potential for this trait was a little too high."**

> Unhindered Combatant has long been dominant in multiple game-types. It represents a longer distance movement option, condition-break, and swiftness generator. We like these things.

> The issue, however, is that there is almost no 'counter' play to the functionality... in that neither players nor designers have a way to whittle down the thief's defensive capabilities short of one-shotting them in a time where there are no evade frames occurring. We want the thief to remain incredibly mobile, but need to introduce some soft-counters so that there are methods to hinder the super-defensive nature of UC builds. We'll keep watch of Exhaustion's interactions with Unhindered Combatant and will adjust as necessary.

>

> _2) If it was meant for competitive changes, why do PvE Daredevils have to take the blow, too?_

> First off: As a rule we don't split skill and trait functionality changes ("functionality" being the keyword here). There are some things that we are okay with splitting such as damage, condition duration/stacks, resource cost, etc. However we don't want to make skills which apply different buffs or have different cast times or number of hits based on game mode. This rule is in place to preserve skill cohesion and prevent confusion when switching game modes. It's not a rule that we plan on changing.

>

> Secondarily: Its condition-removal is built-in and is inseparable from the dodge-mechanic so long as you have the trait equipped. It's feasibly possible to 'remove' the trait and return you to a 'normal' dodge, but consistency is also important in that your dodge button should pretty much always do the same thing.

>

> -SnB

Thanks for popping in for the explanation. Agree or disagree, it's nice to hear from you and read through the reasoning and thought processes.

> @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

> > @vorpal.1497 said:

> > > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

> > > I'm out of the office this week. I can look into seeing what we might be able to do next week. No promises.

> >

> > "I'm on vacation and therefore have tons of free time for stuff like this, but I hate this job and this product and want nothing to do with it outside of paid time"

>

> I actually really like my work. But my time off is family time. Just the fact I'm here looking at forums on my time off should tell you something.

Thanks for taking the time. Whether you guys implement suggestions or not from the players, it is great to see that you guys read through the threads.

> @Barzah.8019 said:

> deadly aim damage also got nerfed in this patch (20 to 30% damage reduction) just sayin

I hope you're wrong about this.... That would put it in brutal aim territory. I'll have to test it out this weekend.

Edit: haven't had time to test dps against the golem, but tooltip is unchanged from before the patch in pvp.

Tl;dr:

Minor Buffs:2

Neutral Changes:3

Minor Nerfs:1

Regular Nerfs:1

Major Nerfs:1

Bugfixes:6

Tooltip fixes:3

Well.... ok. I don't think the bugfixes are going to be enough to put Deadeye where they think it should be. They should have moved some of the damage nerf from Beta-3RB to the auto attacks at least. Nerfs to Daredevil to make Deadeye more appealing were probably too heavy-handed. Overall, not a great balance patch for thief. Most of this could have probably been dropped at the same time as the necro/war bugfixes a couple of weeks ago, but then over 50% of our balance patch would be gone and 38% of the remaining changes would be nerfs.

> * Skills

> * Deadeye Stolen Skills: These skills can now be used while jumping or during skills that jump into the air. Fixed a bug that allowed stolen skills to be wasted by casting them on targets other than your mark. Stolen skills will now always be cast on your mark even if your mark is not your current target.

Did it not activate on an opponent if you were targeting something else? If it didn't, I guess this is a QoL buff. If it did, this is a nerf, not being able to use one stolen skill on another player in a teamfight.

Neutral change

> * Rifle: All rifle skills that fire projectiles will now attempt to face the target before determining if they should activate.

Bugfix

> * Death's Retreat: Updated the description to indicate that this skill shadowsteps away from your current target. Improved the reliability of shadowstep in areas with complex terrain.

Bugfix

> * Death's Judgment: This skill now only deals its bonus damage to your marked target. Updated skill description.

Probably a necessary nerf in function to keep from having to nerf damage to useless levels.

> * Free Action: This skill can now be used to cancel Kneel if the player is sent airborne by an enemy skill. Fixed a bug that could cause this skill to not remove all instances of the listed conditions.

Bugfix

> * Cursed Bullet: Fixed a bug that prevented this skill from working with the Rending Shade trait. Boon steal from Rending Shade occurs before boon corruption.

Bugfix

> * Bandit's Defense: The recharge of this skill has been increased from 15 seconds to 20 seconds.

Nerf

> * Binding Shadow: This skill now performs a range check before activating. Removed range and line-of-sight restrictions from the delayed attack.

QoL Adjustment/Neutral Change

> * Shadow Meld: Fixed a bug that prevented this skill from being recognized as an elite skill for the purposes of some rune effects.

Bugfix

> * Traits

> * Expeditious Dodger: Swiftness granted by this trait will now occur at the end of the dodge.

QoL change/minor buff

> * Unhindered Combatant: Breaking inhibiting conditions with this trait now causes the thief to lose all endurance regeneration for 4 seconds. Direct endurance gains will still apply the full amount. Swiftness granted by this trait will now occur at the end of the dodge.

Major Nerf

> * Improvisation: Fixed a bug that prevented this trait from working with ammo skills. It now restores 1 use to affected skills.

Bugfix

> * Renewing Gaze: Updated the text description for clarity.

Tool tip fix

> * Don't Stop: Removed the erroneous cooldown skill fact.

Tool tip fix

> * Perfectionist: Updated the description to clarify that boons are only gained when reaching full malice stacks. Gaining malice while at full malice stacks will not trigger this trait. Removed internal cooldown.

Tool tip fix/minor buff

> * Fire for Effect: Added a 1-second internal cooldown to this trait. This trait now grants might around the player and the marked target regardless of distance, but it can only grant might to the same target once per activation of the trait. Might applied has been reduced from 10 stacks for 15 seconds to 8 stacks for 12 seconds. Increased might application radius from 240 to 360.

Neutral change

> @chronometria.3708 said:

> I am ok with it being blockable - what deadeye needs is more piercing. Seeing it bounce off a pet or unintended target is what kills it for me. As a ranger I can spame my piercing longbow all over the place and know its going to hit both the target and deal lots of damage to anything that happens to wander in the way as well. This is a great benefit in zergy wvw situations or where there are many mobs.

If they would make just the autos pierce in addition to the number 2 skills pierce, I think that would at least help push rifle in the right direction.

> @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:

> > @zengara.8301 said:

> > Well......The sniper rifle literally is meant to be a modern sniper, even if you remove the obvious picture of a sniper, the sniper position on 1 knee (from other games, reality, of cause, is different.....but so is it with gunslinger) and the difference in gunslingers being more heavy when moving and shooting.......the name of the traits literally say Sniper covers and silent scope, but it really does not matter, you can change it to gunslinger I guess, if you remove the traits and focus on the PP play. Can not deny that the actual elite specialization is meant to be a sniper, like from Overwatch tho.

> >

> > How would you want the rifle fixed, like what would be the purpose of it? Rifle and PP even with the f1 being ranged isnt really good for anything beside picking people off in wvw (roaming), not even dungeons.

> > I get that we have a difference in opinion, I generally dont know what you do in the game, I play WvW mainly and sometimes raid that is probably why I wanted thief to be part of that melee train without getting destroyed at the first push.

> >

> > Well probably not firearm classes, but there are more long ranged than close ranged classes (if we look at meta, of cause anyone can be melee, even elementalist, and anyone can use 100% of their time in Gw2 just enjoying the nature of the game while only collecting mining, like what was thought about BDO......but there is always a main way people generally play, and a main way the company moves the game on)

>

> If you want to cherry pick, sure... Silent Scope and Sniper's Cover means deadeye is exclusively a sniper.

>

> If you look at the other traits you got...

> "Be Fast or Be Killed" Which is a dude holding two six shooters. The trait is basically a quick draw that allows you to rapidly burst a player down before he even gets a chance to react. A common trait for a western fantasy gunslinger is how fast they are at getting a bead and shooting someone from afar with a winchester or colt 45.

> Peripherial Vision: Which is far more important to a gun slinger than a Sniper.

> Maleficent Seven: A direct reference to a western gunslinger movie.

> One in the Chamber: Which uses the image of a bullet loaded in the Cylinder, really did not become a thing till the days of the repeaters and six shooters.

>

> If anything, Deadeye is more like the main character of a western movie like Winchester 73, Tomb Stone, or Highnoon.

>

> Hell when I play deadeye, I don't think I'm Widowmaker. I see myself as a western outlaw riding on the back of a Raptor, and armed with a god kitten repeating rifle and two smoke wagons.

McCree then?

https://playoverwatch.com/en-us/heroes/mccree/

@"zengara.8301"

Well, for the theme, they could have been thinking more of a historical assassin for how they developed it. I mean they called it Deadeye because in terms of game lore, assassins are tied to Cantha. In terms of real history, assassins are tied to the middle east. The theme of the class sort of fits the patient assassin

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassins

Relevant quote from the wiki article:

>physical prowess was not the only trait that was required to be a "Fida'i". To get to their targets, the Assassins had to be patient, cold, and calculating. They were generally intelligent and well-read because they were required to possess not only knowledge about their enemy, but his or her culture and their native language. They were trained by their masters to disguise themselves and sneak into enemy territory to perform the assassinations, instead of simply attacking their target outright.

So it seems to me they based malice on observing the target and marking a specific enemy and giving a stealth elite to help sneak around. The new stolen skills revolve around copying aspects of the marked target (guardian - aegis, necro-vampirism, mesmer - quickness, etc).

In terms of weapons, it's not like they could have given us daggers, and other weapons like greatsword or axes wouldn't really have fit an assassination role. Rifle, however, fit the theme of a modern day assassin and changed how the class played, so it made sense from a gameplay and thematic design decision.

Anyway, I like the theme and if they smoothed out/bugfix rifle, it could be a great weapon.

> @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:

> > @Maugetarr.6823 said:

> > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:

> > > The skill just needs to get cheaper (e.g. 3 initiative cost) so when it bugs, it's not the end of the world.

> >

> > I think it'd be a good idea to have it blind instead of poison also, so when it bugs it provides some sort of defense for at least 1 hit.

>

> I want blind too, but not to be exclusive for Rifle. One of my suggestions is to increase the total initiative to 15 and change Preparedness to Dirty Fighting; DF will apply blind on next attack with 15s ICD (or maybe 8s ICD?).

That's not a bad idea. I also wanted preparedness baseline, but replaced with Shadow Prison; SP chills your target for 3 seconds when you hit them with steal. I'm not a huge fan of auto-procs without action being taken on your part, but your suggestion squeaks by on what I think could be balanced pretty well. Maybe something like your next attack after gaining fury or applying vulnerability with a 5-8 second CD could also work. Probably would work better with the vulnerability version since it would give it to X/D, P/X, Staff, and Rifle.

> @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:

> The skill just needs to get cheaper (e.g. 3 initiative cost) so when it bugs, it's not the end of the world.

I think it'd be a good idea to have it blind instead of poison also, so when it bugs it provides some sort of defense for at least 1 hit.