Israel.7056

So start your guild and run nothing but warriors.

> @"Sylosi.6503" said:

> Because most WvW players who still play WvW on a frequent basis are basically PvE players at heart who use WvW as a substitute for a social life, rather than looking for good (challenging) PvP. No actual PvP player would put up with the pitiful quality of "PvP" in WvW where the majority of fights are not close in the slightest. (let's not even go into how infrequent fights are or how often guilds, zergs, roamers, avoid fights...)

>

> I remember last time I watched Helseth stream (long ago), a bit after they let you queue for PvP from WvW, he went into WvW duelled a warrior, beat him, said "this is stupid, I can just kite him" and went back to PvP, that is the response of an actual PvP player to the "PvP" of WvW.

>

>

You gotta have the boredom tolerance of a god to have fun in PvP after a few thousand games though let me tell you. You get to a certain point and it's literally the same 15-20 guys in every single game.

Well for one thing that would get pretty boring after a while don't you think? Do you really want to sit around and fight the exact same people every single night forever?

The only way anyone ever gets good is by fighting people who are better than they are and losing until they start winning. You should thank the people who are beating you without them you could never improve yourself. Unfortunately most humans are short sighted and they don't see how a loss today turns into a win tomorrow so they get mad and say things like "why don't you just go fight each other and leave me alone???"

> @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> Furthermore wvw would be nearly empty If these pve players didnt come to wvw to craft their legendaries.

What's your evidence for this claim?

Yeah please everyone start running kalla renegades lol

Honestly I still think 20 spellbreakers would be pretty funny. You should try it.

They need to start blowing up servers there aren't enough guilds left to cover all timezones in all tiers

The amount of extra healing from something like vampiric aura is negligible. The best group siphon is probably kalla elite but then they're running kalla renegades and that's a big investment since the rest of that legends kit is terrible. Life steal has always bypassed ep though this is nothing new.

I actually prefer spike burst from condi with an abundance of clears in game and decent access to resistance so the give and take is between burst application, fast frequent cleanses and resistance.

> @"Xterra.6172" said:

> > @"Israel.7056" said:

> > I feel like you guys have forgotten how boring and easy the pre hot melee ball GWEN meta was. There were so many fewer things you had to get right back then.

> >

> > Like earthshaker was fun don't get me wrong but today's meta is so much lower margin for error it's way more fun to play imo.

>

> after earthshaker monkey ball, we reached a sweet spot for a considerable amount of time where guild front lines were running some berserker, celestial, or a combination of valkyrie and knights with PVT instead of full PVT, guild groups had a combination of Staff/GS or Staff/Hammer and GS/Hammer guardians, and even a mostly to full berserker warrior running axe/shield. The necro's and ele's could not run around in the melee ball at this point otherwise they'd just get spiked. This meta was a battle to throw the opponent off balance and force them out of safe space and both ranged and melee had equal roles to play in defence and offence. It was far more dynamic. Mind you, I look at this topic from a frontline bias as I was a frontline player myself and I can't think of a more snoozefest frontline meta than piles of minstrel firebrands healing and boon sharing their backline and that's it. and now that I think about it, you could argue that we are in just as much of a hammer monkey meta than ever before. it's just that now you can hammer monkey from 1200 range instead of melee range.

I was a frontline player too until rev came out. I mostly played hammer warrior and I had a lot of fun earthshakering but the current meta is way more fun imo the margin for error is a lot less now than it was back then and the gameplay feels faster paced than it did back then.

Pips seem ridiculous would be nice for us diamonds though 20 outnumbered pips here we go. Everything else sounds good though

Clearly there's pieces to this puzzle that we simply cannot make sense of from the outside looking in. I cannot blame them for being reluctant to say much to us about wvw development because anything they say at this point is not likely to be received well. I'm sure that they are aware that they have had a valuable opportunity to carve out a niche with wvw and kind of failed to capitalize on it as much as they probably could have. It's an insightful thread but I doubt you're telling them anything they didn't already kind of know.

I feel like you guys have forgotten how boring and easy the pre hot melee ball GWEN meta was. There were so many fewer things you had to get right back then.

Like earthshaker was fun don't get me wrong but today's meta is so much lower margin for error it's way more fun to play imo.

Game's still fun to play and nothing better has coming along yet.

> @"Kaiser.9873" said:

> Pirate ship is junk, but so was boon share, and condi bomb. Hammer train was more fun, because at the time the fights lasted longer. Melee ball with pick group was fun as well as ranged were able to branch out a bit.

>

> Metas that encouraged engagements are more fun than maneuvering for a choke, or simply staring at each other until one side gets so bored they push or leave.

I will never understand this nostalgia for pre hot hammer train meta. Go back and watch videos from that time even the best guilds from back then would be one push material playing like that now.

> @"Whiteout.1975" said:

> Yea, I realize this already... This is not what I'm talking about though. What I'm talking about is **the importance** of the these 2 generalized ways of playing and how WvW caters to one way (Casual) **significantly** more than the other (Serious). And "if we are both right" in regards to the meanings behind our individual rights to being considered generally "Casual" or "Serious". Then this is exactly why being able to play Serious should matter at least nearly as much as being able to play Casual. Therefore, I attempted to demonstrate **why it's incredibly hard to take this mode seriously** because of the lack of incentives. Coming from WvW, specifically, to do so. If there is no real Risk. Rewards surrounding it feel less valuable.

What sort of rewards/incentives are you looking for specifically?

> Now, in regards to your last sentence. I've played for **6** Years... 6. That should count for something. So it's not a matter of simply _if_ GW2 isn't the game for me and other's with a more serious attitude. It's a matter of realizing a certain audience (the generalized Serious player base). And understanding the lack of appeal WvW has on them and why... as much as it is important to understand ways WvW appeals to them as well (or could appeal). Now, I tried to demonstrate this a little bit, personally in this post. Also, through the eye's of another Serious player via video. Though, I cannot speak for each individual who is more or less Serious personally... I don't think anyone person could for the Casual side ether. However, I can at least lay some valid reasoning's as to why it's incredibly hard to take WvW Seriously. Despite one's general enjoyment in leaning towards a more serious attitude.

I've been playing 6 years too. To me the reward has been the experience I've had playing the game.

Reading between the lines here a bit are you talking about the lack of gvg as an official game mode?

Typical comp is hybrid now

The future is consolidation both on na and eu.

Meaning is entirely subjective. Video games are a form of interactive art. Whether you happen to find meaning in one type of art or another is entirely up to your personal taste. You and I could look at a painting or listen to a symphony and both of us could walk away with entirely different takes on the meaning and significance of each piece and we would both be right. So it is with video games. If you do not find any meaning in playing gw2 then that's fine maybe it's just not the right game for you.

> @"Optimator.3589" said:

> Make PPK worth more and PPT worth less. Counterbalance the night-cappers and the fight-dodging back-cappers.

One hundred percent agree tbh but I guess that's what alliances are supposed to do.

Kinda hard to compare games like that. Every class in bdo is pretty fast compared to gw2. I guess you could compare gw2 stab to bdo super armor and dodges to iframes except almost every skill in bdo has some sort of iframe and/or super armor attached to it. They kinda designed every class in bdo to be able to solo farm whereas gw2 is team based. So yeah I dunno it's hard to compare.

> @"TokenG.7863" said:

> I think the restructure will help in this. In the end if they have to set alliance caps small enough that only 30 or 40 ppl fit in them to achieve balance then I guess that's what it'll have to be. If the problem is that there aren't enough skilled opponents to fight outside of your friends, then they might force you to fight your friends.

Depends on what that means in practice.

> @"enkidu.5937" said:

> Though, I dont know, how they want to define and determine this "skill".

Experience is quantifiable, though I don't know how thorough their metrics are per player.

Measuring relative skill is something that takes a more hands on evaluative approach. You cannot know just how good someone is by the number of hours they've played or the number of keeps they've taken or whatever statistic one wishes to look at though I suppose one can make some reasonable assumptions.

> @"enkidu.5937" said:

> "the cost of trying to fix the competence gap is simply too high" . . . fix the . . . uhmm

>

> Pretty sure, WvW doesn't work like that, and was never designed with the idea in mind, that casuals are a burden.

>

> Let's face the circle of doom: big scale mode without skill-based matchmaking

> -> above-average player complains about casuals

> -> semi-pro complains about the above-average player, and casuals

> -> pro complains about the semi-pro, above-average player, and casuals

> -> uber pro complains about everyone . . . and, consequently, quits the game, because no one's there, with enough "competence" to play with

> -> now, since the uber pro is gone, the pro complains about everyone . . . and, consequently, quits the game, because no one's there, with enough "competence" to play with

> -> etc.

>

> Teaching players would just bring back the pro's, that would bring back the uber pro's, and complaining would start again. Wanna break the circle of doom? Stop complaining about "incompetent" players. (Though, teaching the ones that are willing to get taught, is still a welcome option, of course ;) )

The point im making is that balancing servers coverage based on numbers alone with no consideration of competence will not necessarily create more balanced weekly matchups because the competence gap that exists between the "casuals" and the "hardcore" crowd is immense and always slowly increasing.

They may not have designed the game mode with the intent that the "casuals" would one day be at a severe disadvantage against the more dedicated "hardcore" players but it's happened anyways as it always does.

This situation exists and will continue to exist whether we talk about it or not. I think it's better to talk about it and risk hurting some feels in the process.

> @"Sylosi.6503" said:

> There is nothing more amusing in GW2 than the irony of being on TS/Discord (or watching a stream) where some guy is calling the group or individual they just beat terrible, oblivious to the reality that in 2018 more than ever WvW is trash tier PvP and if they were even vaguely decent they would be off playing a skilled, competitive PvP game, not pseudo PvP for PvE players.

This is about as good as it gets for an MMORPG.