Belorn.2659

GW2raidar global stats is a great source (tip: the data is presented as top 1%, top 25% and average), but as a golden rule a DPS need to do more Boss DPS than the support roles, but in reality it depend on boss mechanics.

Most of the time DPS get compared to DPS when two people are doing the exact same job with the same responsibilities. Context matter a lot in raid.

No.

More complicated answer: No, but I will explain with an example.

Infusions are 2%. If you look at the average damage in raidar global stats, the difference between top 1% and top 10% is usually much more than just 2%. For weavers on deimos:

top 1% = 26092

top 10% = 21038

average = 14669

Infusions for a 1% top player is thus around 500 points of damage. For an average player 2% is 300 points of damage. The effect of infusions are much smaller than your natural variance in fighting the same boss twice on the same day.

> @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > @"Belorn.2659" said:

> > And this topic again and the same stuff being reiterated by the same people.

> >

> > Fact: No one want us to return to the practices that we had before DPS meters. It is not fun getting instantly kicked because of low AP. It is not fun pinging gear or get kicked. It is no fun getting instantly kicked for being on the wrong profession. People like to look back and say how much better it was before, but I was there. It was not great. It was much more common that people got kicked. People were constantly posting here on the forum about the toxic nature of dungeon players, WvW players, PvP players. If you did not have what today would be 30k ap, then kick. Did you not play the selective 3 allowed professions, then kick. Do not have the title, then kick. Did not ping proper gear, then kick. Sounds fun?

> >

> > Kheldorn.5123, you keep reposting the same stuff so lets repost the same replies. If you join a group or squad then they will see you. They can watch you. They can see your impact on the boss, what buffs you give them, the health you may heal, your account name, your AP, your masteries, your skin choices. Do not join groups or squad if you don't want to share such information. No dps tool in the game will show information from players not in the party or squad.

>

> This is why their policy is wrong and disrespectful towards their customers. A majority I dare to say. As I tried to have a discussion about the subject, Anet never joined to actually discuss anything. And anet is the only one worth talking to about this. There will never be an agreement between players about this and it's pointless to argue with you on any level at any time. I am dissatisfied with their policy and I'm going to post my negative feedback about it. Since players are continously bringing it back, it is an issue. However I acknowledge it's easier for Anet (lazy) to allow dps meters and never again bother with them. They know players would use them anyway. It's lazy approach but revent events prove this company has problems with identifying and fighting security issues within a game.

>

> tl;dr dps meters allow to see data you can't see within game client yourself unless you focus on watching boss health, checking possible damage numbers and skills your party is using and estimeta values. It's close to impossible for human to do this while actively playing with 1 additional person, and totally impossible when playing in a group. Meaning that DPS meter gives you an advantage over other players, which breaks anet rules for 3rd party software.

>

> I am not against DPS meters. I am against faulty ideology, wrong premises and terrible implementation of anet policy. They should respect all customers same way, meanwhile they are providing advantage and special rights for players who use risky, unsupported 3rd party tools. They should change their policy to make ArcDPS opt out. But this would require effort. And effort is opposite of current, lazy approach.

I laugh at the claim that it is impossible to watching boss health, checking possible damage numbers and skills your party is using and estimeta(estimate) values when playing in a group. Take fractal 99cm where every single player go to their *own* side and pass a DPS check. It very easy to see if someone fails at that. At other bosses, if you suspect a player is holding the other players behind it also very easy to keep and eye and see what they do. Skills has animations. If someone is just auto-attacking then the best DPS they possible could do is still a quarter or less than the other DPS players. If they also happen to be dead a moment later and you see the struggle with the game mechanics, then it is also very obvious.

But the biggest reason the claim is false is simply because some players enjoy watching other players. Healers in gw2 must watch other players and is a major part of their game play. There are also people who like teaching, so they constantly train to watch other people. Such people tend to become team leaders for raid and will by now have years of experience of keeping a very close each to new members in order to evaluate them and spot issues. Spend years training to do this and the result will be a person that is better than the DPS meter, and yes I know several people personally that do this. They are the one that has a distinct advantage over other players, if knowing who to kick and who to keep gives "an advantage over other players".

It is not anets job to hide players who make a knowingly choice to join a group and participating in group content. If one do not consent to being watched then do not join group content. It simple, its fair and it respect customer choice. Those that do not want to do content in a group can choose single player content. Those that want group content can do group content.

And this topic again and the same stuff being reiterated by the same people.

Fact: No one want us to return to the practices that we had before DPS meters. It is not fun getting instantly kicked because of low AP. It is not fun pinging gear or get kicked. It is no fun getting instantly kicked for being on the wrong profession. People like to look back and say how much better it was before, but I was there. It was not great. It was much more common that people got kicked. People were constantly posting here on the forum about the toxic nature of dungeon players, WvW players, PvP players. If you did not have what today would be 30k ap, then kick. Did you not play the selective 3 allowed professions, then kick. Do not have the title, then kick. Did not ping proper gear, then kick. Sounds fun?

Kheldorn.5123, you keep reposting the same stuff so lets repost the same replies. If you join a group or squad then they will see you. They can watch you. They can see your impact on the boss, what buffs you give them, the health you may heal, your account name, your AP, your masteries, wvw level, pvp rank, current title and item skins. if you join a guild they will see when you last logged in. Gathering this information is not hacking and anet has very explicit said that they consider it public. Do not join guilds, groups or squads if you don't want any information to reach other people in the game. No dps tool in the game will show information from players not in the party or squad. Just posting on the forum itself is highlighted in Anets privacy police as inadvisable if you are concerned about sharing information.

Let me share my experience doing fractal 99cm. Yesterday we had a exciting start but a player had to go and so we advertised for a dps for the second half of the fractal. In came a core reverent, with 96 mastery and about 8k AP. To say that warning bells rang would be an understatement, but we gave the player a chance.

The result: topped at 1.5k dps acording to the meter (less than the druid) and fully died about 90s into the fight. During the fight I checked to see in case it was some kind of support buff builds, but alas no buffs was coming from that player. Not sure if they even had agony resistance. Did not reply to questions and got kicked a few moments later.

A few days ago, a dragon hunter with 4k ap joined with around 120 mastery points. We went in an the dps from that player was top dps during first boss. Run was smooth and later I asked if it was a second account and got a reply that indeed that was the case.

AP, build, meta, mastery points, title. All those are simply signs. It doesn't define a good player vs a bad player, but it make it easy to guess who is high risk. Thankfully today we got DPS meters so you can go in and test how it goes and later kick if indeed the suspicion turns out to be true.

> @"Hawk.6274" said:

> I personally would prefer to not have something that exchanged real currency with ingame currency. Sounds abit p2w to me.

They used to have that in gw1, but as in many other mmorpgs it resulted in gold sellers covering that aspect of the market. The gold to gems exchange is Anet taking over that market by making it part of the game, taxing it heavily (30%), and thus earning their share when ever a legit buyer want to do such transaction with a legit seller.

It also mean that anet has a massive incentive to catch and punish illegal gold sellers, and I have notices that the issue of hacked accounts and scamming gold sellers is a much smaller problem in gw2 than in gw1. Coincident? I don't think so. It seems like a win for the devs, win for the players, win for the buyers and win for those that want to trade gold for something like money but that can only buy in-game stuff.

> @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > > @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > > > You can't see other players data in your combat log. Anyway, dps meter hacks the game, literally. Whether it is allowed or not in up to anet, but they are breaking their own UA allowing these tools.

> > > >

> > > > You get information that the client itself does not provide, that is true. I'm not so sure that this is hacking though. Anet made no efforts to hide the data. If you use a public computer to log into your Facebook, and leave it there without logging off or closing down the computer, and someone else posts on your Facebook later, you have not been hacked. If Anet encrypted the data, you would need to hack it, or better, crack it.

> > >

> > > You can't access this data without using a tool which is not provided by game client for you. You are hacking the game. That's how it works. Let's call things how they are. Anet allowed these tools only because they know they can't control players using them, as they can't detect them. So they allowed these hacks to make playerbase control itself. It's the same manipulation process as some countries use to control marijuana distribution.

> > >

> >

> > It's only a "hack" in the sense of "lifehack", a strategy or technique adopted in order to manage one's time and daily activities in a more efficient way. It's only a "hack" if you also consider the following to be hacks: GW2 Timer, GW2 Efficiency and GW2 BLTC, GW2 Crafts, the [Wardrobe Unlock Analyzer](http://immortius.net.au/guaranteed-wardrobe-unlock/), etc. Every single one of those tools offers data that cannot be seen using the game client alone. So while you can make a technical argument that ArcDPS uses a "hack," it's not a meaningful distinction in terms of what should/should not be allowed by a reasonable game studio.

> >

> > ArcDPS is acceptable to ANet (and BGDM was not) precisely because it uses only data that is reported by the game already. ArcDPS just puts it in a form that makes it useful in real time. In contast, BGDM also provided data that **was not** already being reported by the game and that's why it was disallowed.

> >

> > Chris Cleary has been very clear that this is **not** about allowing anything that they have trouble controlling (that's a bigger list than this thread even tries to discuss); it is very much about the company's evolving views on what's important & useful to players, what the game should or shouldn't provide, and the form in which that data is presented.

> >

> > > Now I think anet should allow gearchecks because these tools work exactly like dps meters. And the technology is already there as even ArcDPS can already read your gear but its dev hid this function to be in line Chris's rules.

> > No, gearchecks are reading data that isn't available without cheating. The technology to cheat is **always** going to exist; that's not a good reason to allow it.

>

> Game client reads your character same way it reads dps you deal to the monster. It's all in game memory. So when ArcDPS hacks game memory to read dps it already can read everything that is there, gear included. That means they already allow technology to hack the game and read it and now they try to limit how players access this data.

>

> Allowing DPs meter and not allowing gear check is hypocrisy.

Please just stop. No one else is calling DPS meter hacking. DPS meters have different intent and purpose to gear checking, especially in PvP.

Blizzard has a rather nice rule in regard to Hearthstone. If a tool is just an computerized version of pen and paper writing down what the player already have access to, then its not an exploit and not against the rules. Simple and clean, and obvious when enforcement comes down.

Early DPS meters worked by screen scraping the event log. It was nothing but a computerized version of pen and paper writing down what happened in the log. They were imprecise, did not catch the skill animations of party members or changes to the boss health when those skills landed, but those were always technically within the grasp of such technique. Calling those tools hacking is hyperbole.

Current DPS meters function basically identical to those but take a extra step and goes from imprecise to precise since they get direct access to the event stream. They are close enough to the computerized pen and paper and passes the three questions from Gaile's post.

Gear check do not. Gear check can allow a PvP player to see the build of opposing players, which breaks the first requirement. Gear is impossible to identify in the game (skins has a long time been separated from the attributes). Not amount of "pen and paper" can do what a gear checking tool do. Outside of API keys, gear checking is not possible, which is why many raid and fractal guilds require today that you give them an API key so that can do gear checking on you.

With caps at 5 guilds and a total of 500-1000 members, my prediction is that the guild cap will hit in the vast majority of cases. The wvw guilds I know on my server is all much smaller than active 100+ members. This will then create alliance "guilds" which members of multiple guilds will join in order to make alliances be more dense and reach the member cap with just 5 guilds.

The guild cap will hurt small guilds. It will hurt players who currently is in multiple small guilds that each provide one aspect of wvw. It would be nice if the new system would actually help smaller guild that do one thing and do that very efficiently. 5 guilds with each 30 active wvw players is only going to be a 150 member alliance and that drawback is going to push players to abandon such guilds.

People like to ignore that we now days we can see what players actually bring to raid and fractal and have real results on the success and failure of each profession. Raidar has the global stats page, and guilds such as snow crash gives target numbers for each encounter. Weaver is not, **NOT**, optimal professional for everything. Not even close. Not even on average, that is, **bringing weavers as default is a bad idea** when raiding.

And if someone is still not convinced, just try it. Go and create a full clear raid group with only weaver as dps. It will be slower than the average group, higher failure rate, higher rate of downed and dead players, higher risk to fail mechanics, higher number of received damage.

The keep construct is a golem created by xera. It works like a test golem. It stand still like a test golem. It has similar benchmarks as the test golem. Weaver is optimal against golems. Mathias is not a golem. he don't work like a test golem. He don't stand still like a golem. He don't share benchmark with the test golem. Weaver is not optimal against non-golems.

Here is a challange: Do 46k dps as weaver on all raid bosses. Go ahead, try it. It will make reddit and gw2 forum news are a world first! The average dps on Mathias for power weaver is 8,060 dps so you only have to carry the dps of 5 players. Should be easy, right?

> @"Sovereign.1093" said:

> imo.

>

> Afk is ok only for the following reasons:

>

> 1. you go bio

> 2. you rest because you raided with zerg, duel, roamer, for a long time and will continue after rest

> 3. you are a scout.

>

> Anything not mentioned, i feel should be penalized.

>

> So you can hunt pips, just help out.

Here on NSP we have large periods of dead hours where you can count the number of players on each BL with one hand, if not one finger. At this point of writing this very message I am practically alone on the map.

To cap a camp you must spend around 1-2m each 10m in order to get participation for rewards. That is 10-20% of a regular player. Bring 5 such afk'ers and you have just created a wvw player "for free" where before there would not be any. That is 2-5 camps (4-10 world points). They will usually also help with towers, keeps or defense.

Is a completely empty BL better than 5 afk'ers taking camps and doing random stuff? Myself I welcome more AFK farmers during the hours of 8am -> 2pm UTC. It would mean less permanent outnumbered on the BL's but at least there is some company to be had rather than NPC's and animals.

Ours were not just lingering, they stayed for the whole fight. One was a wipe that lasted over 10m, so each of the 3 bombs were permanent active through out that.

So basically, if anyone drop a flux bomb during chaos fight on the boss, then that area will be permanent unavailable for the remaining of the fight. I don't recall that to be true before the last patch.

mistlock instability version works as before.

Did the recommended chaos and all the flux bombs did not despawn until the whole fight was over.

They also did about 18k damage on a lvl 54, but I don't know if thats normal or not...

> @"Gaile Gray.6029" said:

> > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > All images are Trademarked by Anet and NCsoft, if you want to make a product based on their game, contact their licencing office. There is a "fair use" clause. but.. that can be it's own trip and legal jumps. If you are going to try and make a production run, better to just call them directly and ask permission. I know,, I know.. some people will say its better to ask forgiveness, but last I looked, cooperate lawyers are not into that forgiveness business.

>

> I don't see how Fair Use applies at all, when the very definition is, "Fair Use (in US copyright law) the doctrine that brief excerpts of copyright material may, under certain circumstances, be quoted verbatim for purposes such as criticism, news reporting, teaching, and research, without the need for permission from or payment to the copyright holder." Manufacturing items isn't quoting, verbatim or otherwise. Selling items is not any of these things: "criticism, news reporting, teaching, [or] research."

> ...

It should be noted that Manufacturing and selling pins as fan art is neither of those things. Criticism/news reporting however can be made into items (such as CD's) and then sold, so commercialism isn't a decisive factor. Law get interpreted and cases resolved with the context which they reside in.

From what I have read in supreme court cases, products that compete with the copyright owners own products tend to end badly for the accused. I am pretty sure that there already exist gw2 themed merchandise by authorized manufacturers, so pins would be very risky. I would predict that it would be much harder case in regard to commissioned painted artwork of player characters, while cosplay costume would sit rather in the middle of the grey zone. Judges tend to take into consideration if there is market standards and commissioned cosplay costume has a rather established history of being tolerated so long they don't compete with existing "official" costumes.

Fair use is a grey zone with a long history of cases, some with even contradict each other (in particular with the game industry). Wanze.8410 question is unlikely to get definitive answer unless someone brings it to the courts.

Since last patch, I and everyone in my squad seems to be randomly getting crashes. It don't have anything to do with third party programs since several don't have it, and it doesn't seem to have anything to do with graphic settings. Each crash seems to be happening to 2 or 3 people, but randomly which ones they are.

To take a term from other games, snowballs effects can be dangerous to game design. A very successful team won't see the vindicators, and a very unsuccessful team will just get further demoralized. The one team that get any meaningful interaction with the vindicators is those on the edge that just barely manage to complete the fractal.

I would not call them bad per say. It adds an additional risk-reward to staying alive and healthy, pushing the player towards more defensive stance. Further development would naturally be interesting. They could lower the impact a bit by limit the number of vindicators that can be alive at the same time, change the rally aspect or change the charge attack to more damage over time. Instead of a black and white issue, view them as a snowball card in a collectable card game.

pug training is sadly a bit like that.

Guilds that do raid training generally mix in regulars into the runs, and the rules to stay the whole run get enforced as guild rules. just find a guild that does raid and don't have any rep requirements, and you should get much more consistent training runs.

> @"Vayne.8563" said:

> > @"Magnus Godrik.5841" said:

> > Raiding is easy. As is everything else in the game once you know what to do. You have to grind to get gud, tho. Great way to make gold fast and get weapons/armor.

>

> Saying raiding is easy is not correct. Raiding is easy for you. It's not easy for people who have less time, or constant interruptions in their time. It's not easy for people who live the Oceanic region who now have higher ping than they've ever had. It's not easy for people who have slower reaction times. Raiding, for me, is doable. I can raid. But I also live in Tasmania, and with the lag spikes, it's not even close to being easy, and because of that it's often not fun. And you know, I'm not the only guy who plays this game that lives in Australia or New Zealand, or Singapore, or Thailand, or any one of dozens of other countries that have this problem.

Raid is like 2 hours dedicated PvP match. There is no "brb" in pvp. There is no "give me 15m to make/eat/buy dinner". If you try to do 5 healers, or all celestial, then expect trouble. Have 3 second delay on all skills and expect getting killed by teams without such lag.

Raid is all that but instead of 5 people you have to have 10 people. Anyone who did gvg back in gw1 days or done 10 man organized pvp knows the trouble that depending on 10 people brings. It not easy, but it can be very fun.

> @"Sol Solus.3167" said:

> Even with the treasure chest system, what if someone signs up and has guild members follow him? Solo players won't have a chance.

>

> WvW has always been about unfair numerical advantages, if you keep trying to various carrots and restrictions to recreate PvP, eventually you'll just end up with PvP, which already exists.

Maybe that would still be fine. Its not PvP custom arena, so if you want the risk/reward of a bounty system then those cards will be on the table.

I am looking at all this discussion and so little seem to focus on question of training raids that I am starting to think that people are not actually interested in it.

What could the community do more to please people? Practically every guild I know that dabbles in raid has some form of training. The one I alluded to before has 3, for different time zones, that constantly seeks new players.

The only thing I can think of that would make things better is if in game party search channels was changed so that selling and training got their own. I would also not mind if there was in-game incentives to help out and train players, like a mode which gave some rewards for failing (not shards) but no reward for success unless its the first kill for that account.

Seems like an advertisement issue if you feel like there is no training guilds.

Know one guild on Na that usually run training at 2am, 4am and 9:30 am (server time), spread out during the week.

Would I had farmed silver waste without the rewards? No.

Would I had farmed AB without the rewards? No.

Would I have farmed TD without needing the eggs? No.

Would I have farmed DS without needing the ore? No.

So the answer is no. I prefer that Palawadan stays a bit above what silverwaste gives, so that the silver waste farm can die a natural death.

> @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > @"Belorn.2659" said:

> > The boss mechanic is naturally the deciding factor. In general sense, if the boss is huge, stands still and is stunned then bring a power weaver. If it moves around all the time, bring a condi mirrage.

> >

> > Do this mean we can bring a conclusion to this discussion by deciding if raiding favors bosses which has a lot of movement, or raiding favor bosses which stand still with large hit boxes?

>

> The point is, the most superior boss fights where condi leads are gimmick fights where Mirage as only class with pet damage excells. Chances are slim that a majority of future fights will follow the same pattern.

>

> Soulbeast as mentioned has very competative dps with fast ramp up and easy rotation. Considering the move to make condis less bursty, this won't stay.

>

> Overall condi was not in the dominating spot any more which most people believed. On the contrary, power has reclaimed its spots and that on multiple builds and classes and not on only gimmick boss fights.

In the wing released just a few weeks ago, half of it favor condi. You might call boss fights that favor condi to be gimmicks, but I don't see it. Cairn is no more gimmicky than KC, and matt is an excellent designed boss. Soulless is a refreshing design to bring necro to their A game with a fairly high skill ceiling. Mo is sadly comparable to escort, with the exception to CM which raidar don't have enough data to clearly point in one or other direction.

We will have to see what a increased ramp up time will do. It will effect bosses that has phasaes that reset condis such as sloth and sam, but out of those only sloth might actually see a difference. The condi favored boss won't suddenly become power favored, or wise verse, so I doubt the optimal strategy for top dps or pugs will change much after this patch. Time will tell. Thankfully we have sites like raidar that publish the data.

> @"apharma.3741" said:

> > @"Belorn.2659" said:

> > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > > @"Belorn.2659" said:

> > > > Lets bring in the values then. *Average* dps on raid and t4 cm encounters. I have bolden those that have over 1k preference to one side, as anything below that line is just variance of two comparable numbers.

> > > > #Raid

> > > > boss Power Condi

> > > > VG __13307__ 10638

> > > > gor 14995 14919

> > > > sab 15074 14268

> > > > sloth 12157 11643

> > > > matt 10643 __13771__

> > > > kc __25314__ 13282

> > > > xera 10921 11223

> > > > cairn 14508 __20459__

> > > > mo 22662 __24576__

> > > > sam __11583__ 9344

> > > > deim __14226__ 11650

> > > > soul 17938 __19670__

> > > > dhuum __11005__ 9693

> > > >

> > > > #Fractals:

> > > > 99cmboss1 __14510__ 10740

> > > > boss 2 __21591__ 13968

> > > > boss 3 __22638__ 17621

> > > >

> > > > 100cmboss1 8554 8603

> > > > boss 2 9197 9110

> > > > boss 3 13628 14495

> > > >

> > > > Conclusion: Raid was pretty balanced between condi and power, as was 100cm. 99cm strongly favor power.

> > > > (Would be nice if this forum supported some form of tables)

> > >

> > > and now do a check on class popularity for all encounters where condi is ahead. Notice something? The top condi builds represented are almost not run at all. They are pushing numbers that's all. Especially condi Daredevil which is run not even a fraction compared to the amount of weavers available.

> >

> > I can list each highest DPS class for the encounters which condi is highest for, and their associated popularity.

> > matt 10643 __13771__

> > Mirage. Popularity 1.22. Almost 300% more popular than second most popular DPS.

> > cairn 14508 __20459__

> > Mirage. Popularity 0.70. Second most popular DPS class, second after soulbeast (condi).

> > mo 22662 __24576__

> > Daredevil. popularity 0.22. Here the top dps is unpopular, where the most popular is again soulbeast (condi) with 21058 average dps.

> > soul 17938 __19670__

> > Mirage. Popularity 0.56. Second most popular DPS class, second after soulbeast (condi).

> >

> > Conclusion: Condi soulbeast is very popular for bosses which favor condi. Very popular. I am actually quite surprised to how popular it is. Second most popular is mirrage which in 3 of the 4 bosses was highest DPS.

>

> Condi soulbeast had a fairly simple rotation to use that offered very competitive damage with a fairly quick ramp up time that can also be used at range when needed without losing too much damage and few to any long cast times. Condi mirage is fairly simple for decent damage, the cleave isn’t great and has a bit of a ramp up time but if you want a solid dps option it has always been a great pick in average or below groups as it’s less affected by quickness and alacrity. Anyone else find it ironic that the 2 things Chrono does best affect mesmer the least for its dps?

I think you are right. Personally I find mirrage to be a nice break in the more complex rotation from power classes, and my currest best advice to new raiders in regard to what class to pick. I will note that I incorrectly had soulbest as highest popularity in soulless. That prize goes to scourge for very obvious reasons given the mechanic of that fight.

> @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > @"Belorn.2659" said:

> > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > > @"Belorn.2659" said:

> > > > Lets bring in the values then. *Average* dps on raid and t4 cm encounters. I have bolden those that have over 1k preference to one side, as anything below that line is just variance of two comparable numbers.

> > > > #Raid

> > > > boss Power Condi

> > > > VG __13307__ 10638

> > > > gor 14995 14919

> > > > sab 15074 14268

> > > > sloth 12157 11643

> > > > matt 10643 __13771__

> > > > kc __25314__ 13282

> > > > xera 10921 11223

> > > > cairn 14508 __20459__

> > > > mo 22662 __24576__

> > > > sam __11583__ 9344

> > > > deim __14226__ 11650

> > > > soul 17938 __19670__

> > > > dhuum __11005__ 9693

> > > >

> > > > #Fractals:

> > > > 99cmboss1 __14510__ 10740

> > > > boss 2 __21591__ 13968

> > > > boss 3 __22638__ 17621

> > > >

> > > > 100cmboss1 8554 8603

> > > > boss 2 9197 9110

> > > > boss 3 13628 14495

> > > >

> > > > Conclusion: Raid was pretty balanced between condi and power, as was 100cm. 99cm strongly favor power.

> > > > (Would be nice if this forum supported some form of tables)

> > >

> > > and now do a check on class popularity for all encounters where condi is ahead. Notice something? The top condi builds represented are almost not run at all. They are pushing numbers that's all. Especially condi Daredevil which is run not even a fraction compared to the amount of weavers available.

> >

> > I can list each highest DPS class for the encounters which condi is highest for, and their associated popularity.

> > matt 10643 __13771__

> > Mirage. Popularity 1.22. Almost 300% more popular than second most popular DPS.

> > cairn 14508 __20459__

> > Mirage. Popularity 0.70. Second most popular DPS class. Most popular was soulbeast (condi) at 0.83.

> > mo 22662 __24576__

> > Daredevil. popularity 0.22. Here the top dps is unpopular, where the most popular is again soulbeast (condi) with 21058 average dps.

> > soul 17938 __19670__

> > Mirage. Popularity 0.56. Second most popular DPS class. Most popular was soulbeast (condi) at 0.84.

> >

> > Conclusion: Condi soulbeast is very popular for bosses which favor condi. Very popular. I am actually quite surprised to how popular it is. Second most popular is mirrage which in 3 of the 4 bosses was highest DPS.

>

> Mirage leads on fights with a lot of movement, phantasm mirage in this case. This has more to do with the fights mechanics and less with the balance between power and condi.

>

> Power mesmer was leading damage on those fights as well even though its overall damage was midfield.

The boss mechanic is naturally the deciding factor. In general sense, if the boss is huge, stands still and is stunned then bring a power weaver. If it moves around all the time, bring a condi mirrage.

Do this mean we can bring a conclusion to this discussion by deciding if raiding favors bosses which has a lot of movement, or raiding favor bosses which stand still with large hit boxes? It seems we have moved quite far away then from the initial question regarding if condi or power is favored in raiding.

> @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > @"Belorn.2659" said:

> > Lets bring in the values then. *Average* dps on raid and t4 cm encounters. I have bolden those that have over 1k preference to one side, as anything below that line is just variance of two comparable numbers.

> > #Raid

> > boss Power Condi

> > VG __13307__ 10638

> > gor 14995 14919

> > sab 15074 14268

> > sloth 12157 11643

> > matt 10643 __13771__

> > kc __25314__ 13282

> > xera 10921 11223

> > cairn 14508 __20459__

> > mo 22662 __24576__

> > sam __11583__ 9344

> > deim __14226__ 11650

> > soul 17938 __19670__

> > dhuum __11005__ 9693

> >

> > #Fractals:

> > 99cmboss1 __14510__ 10740

> > boss 2 __21591__ 13968

> > boss 3 __22638__ 17621

> >

> > 100cmboss1 8554 8603

> > boss 2 9197 9110

> > boss 3 13628 14495

> >

> > Conclusion: Raid was pretty balanced between condi and power, as was 100cm. 99cm strongly favor power.

> > (Would be nice if this forum supported some form of tables)

>

> and now do a check on class popularity for all encounters where condi is ahead. Notice something? The top condi builds represented are almost not run at all. They are pushing numbers that's all. Especially condi Daredevil which is run not even a fraction compared to the amount of weavers available.

I can list each highest DPS class for the encounters which condi is highest for, and their associated popularity. I do not count warrior when looking at popularity.

matt 10643 __13771__

Mirage. Popularity 1.22. Almost 300% more popular than second most popular DPS.

cairn 14508 __20459__

Mirage. Popularity 0.70. Second most popular DPS class. Most popular was soulbeast (condi) at 0.83.

mo 22662 __24576__

Daredevil. popularity 0.22. Here the top dps is unpopular, where the most popular is again soulbeast (condi) with 21058 average dps and a popularity of 0.88.

soul 17938 __19670__

Mirage. Popularity 0.56. Third most popular DPS class. Most popular was scourge (condi) at 1.24.

Conclusion: Condi soulbeast is very popular for bosses which favor condi. Very popular. I am actually quite surprised to how popular it is. Second most popular is mirrage which in 3 of the 4 bosses was highest DPS.